Date   

Re: Reweigh Dates (was Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS)

tchenoweth@...
 

Ben, you are correct. I was simply telling about the details on the car and
giving a date when the photo was taken. Since the photo was taken in 1962,
Santa Fe must have had SFRM cars prior to what was stated in the previous post.
Tom Chenoweth


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Larry,

I guess I was using the expression that one of the
BRE/WFE men at Cicero used. While it has been a long
time I'm fairly sure that the heaters, which were
sitting in the ice bunker, were checked and fueled
by pulling them up through a hatch with a cable.

This might have been just a safety issue. What was
the Carbon Monoxide reading inside that bunker?
Were these Alcohol or Charcoal heaters?

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, 03 October, 2006 03:02
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


The heaters I have had to take care of were all set on the bottom of
the bunker and NOT HUNG in the car.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...





On Oct 2, 2006, at 10:27 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

> Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
> were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
> they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
> that were constructed with a heater area that could be
> accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?
>


Reweigh Dates (was Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS)

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tom Chenowth wrote:
"It was shopped at WC 7 62..."

IT IS NOT A SHOP DATE (OR A REPAINT DATE). It's when the car was last reweighed. A car would be reweighed after work done in the car shops that would affect its tare weight; however, cars were reweighed on a periodic basis without shopping. See RP Cyc 12 for more details.


Ben Hom


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

ljack70117@...
 

The heaters I have had to take care of were all set on the bottom of the bunker and NOT HUNG in the car.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

On Oct 2, 2006, at 10:27 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
that were constructed with a heater area that could be
accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?

Might be putting a little too much weight on the herald
painted on URTX RS or RB cars as to who is leasing them.
I would say that the road was leasing the cars at the
time they were shopped and painted but if the lease
expired URTX would usually let the cars go as free
runners until they found another lease or needed
shopping. As long as they are still getting time-mileage
settlements those cars are going to be out there running.

With the inertia of, doing things the same way all the
time, even with a car surplus foreign or private owner
free runners would probably still be used even if a
carrier had enough of it's own cars. The "Q" had a fair
number of center sidings between Savanna and Dayton's
Bluff. In slack periods these would be filled with WFE,
FGE,BRE RS cars. While this was a good geographic plan
in those days getting 50 empties from Wisconsin to
Washington was not an overnight proposition. If there
was an unexpected surge in Apple or Pear loadings in
the PNW the GN and NP would be loading anything. The
GN had the edge on the NP since their cars were pre-
positioned. Meanwhile the NP would be trying to get
MDT's and NRC's from Kensington or wherever they were
stored, at times even from the BAR. I can recall large
groups of cars moving East and West as the needs shifted.

One incident comes to mind. The "Q" required that a slip
bill be made out for every empty. Got a big string of
MDT's and NRC's for PFE loading. When they got to
Galesburg PFE cut off the flow. The "Q" gave the cars
back to the NYC at Zearing to shorten the time-mileage
charge. About two weeks later I got the same cars back
on my slip bills. They had gone as far East as Selkirk
and then were sent back West. This time they did manage
to make it to UP rails.

There was one other incident where the IHB had pulled
80 cars out of Kensington, 40 for the NP and 40 for the
IC. While the paperwork went the right places the cars
were reversed. After I found out from the IHB the IC was
involved chased down a Chief Clerk at Markham. He admitted
they had the same problem and agreed that we would just
trade cars. This was in the middle of the night with no
Management involvement at all. Just the way it should be.

Russ
Hold the phone! We're talking canned meat here, not cut meat. In the
era we're talking, there was no way to ship cut meat without hanging
it, and you can't hang meat in a produce reefer; you need meat rails,
which makes the car RSM under the AAR mechanical codes. Since most the
cars being talked about are RS, they are not carrying hanging meat.

They are also not in LCL service, just because the agent opened them
and resealed them. Keep in mind that the tariffs for most commodities
allowed multiple consignees; the car went the first, who removed his
portion of the shipment, was resealed and went to the second, and so
on. Sounds like LCL, right? But it's not, as it is moving as a full
carload under the multiple consignee provisions of the carload tariff.
The LCL tariff would be a higher rate.

And, in response to another message, I thought that car heaters were
lowered into the empty ice bunkers. In that case, the car seal didn't
need to be broken to service them.

Dennis






Yahoo! Groups Links









Ebay listings

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

I posted some items on Ebay that may be of interest
http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5

Thanks for looking.


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@...


Branchline Models Western Reefer Cars 9000-9499

Paul Lyons
 

Guys and in paticular Ted Culotta, I have one of the Branchline WRX 9000-9499 kits lettered for "Greenbay and Western Lines" almost complete. Remembering this was a featured model in one of Ted's RMC articles, I went looking for the magazine to do a comparison of efforts. I found it, and we were pretty much all together except for one MAJOR difference--the hatch covers. Ted used what I call the more complicated hatch covers in the kit with the iron strapping on top for his model and I used the simpler cover. When I first open the kit I was confused, which cover to use and I could have sworn the box label (only place to find this info) said to use the one that I did use. Anyway, since the model has not gone to the paint shop it is not a big deal to change out at this time if I am wrong. Ted, if you are wrong, no offense intended, just want to get it right.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

tchenoweth@...
 

The car is SFRM Rr-56 38005 and was taken by K.B. King at San Angelo TX in
late 1962. It was shopped at WC 7 62 and the "M" looks new as does the "3800"
but not the "SFR" or "5". Your website might be in error. Tom Chenoweth


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
that were constructed with a heater area that could be
accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?

Might be putting a little too much weight on the herald
painted on URTX RS or RB cars as to who is leasing them.
I would say that the road was leasing the cars at the
time they were shopped and painted but if the lease
expired URTX would usually let the cars go as free
runners until they found another lease or needed
shopping. As long as they are still getting time-mileage
settlements those cars are going to be out there running.

With the inertia of, doing things the same way all the
time, even with a car surplus foreign or private owner
free runners would probably still be used even if a
carrier had enough of it's own cars. The "Q" had a fair
number of center sidings between Savanna and Dayton's
Bluff. In slack periods these would be filled with WFE,
FGE,BRE RS cars. While this was a good geographic plan
in those days getting 50 empties from Wisconsin to
Washington was not an overnight proposition. If there
was an unexpected surge in Apple or Pear loadings in
the PNW the GN and NP would be loading anything. The
GN had the edge on the NP since their cars were pre-
positioned. Meanwhile the NP would be trying to get
MDT's and NRC's from Kensington or wherever they were
stored, at times even from the BAR. I can recall large
groups of cars moving East and West as the needs shifted.

One incident comes to mind. The "Q" required that a slip
bill be made out for every empty. Got a big string of
MDT's and NRC's for PFE loading. When they got to
Galesburg PFE cut off the flow. The "Q" gave the cars
back to the NYC at Zearing to shorten the time-mileage
charge. About two weeks later I got the same cars back
on my slip bills. They had gone as far East as Selkirk
and then were sent back West. This time they did manage
to make it to UP rails.

There was one other incident where the IHB had pulled
80 cars out of Kensington, 40 for the NP and 40 for the
IC. While the paperwork went the right places the cars
were reversed. After I found out from the IHB the IC was
involved chased down a Chief Clerk at Markham. He admitted
they had the same problem and agreed that we would just
trade cars. This was in the middle of the night with no
Management involvement at all. Just the way it should be.

Russ
Hold the phone! We're talking canned meat here, not cut meat. In the
era we're talking, there was no way to ship cut meat without hanging
it, and you can't hang meat in a produce reefer; you need meat rails,
which makes the car RSM under the AAR mechanical codes. Since most the
cars being talked about are RS, they are not carrying hanging meat.

They are also not in LCL service, just because the agent opened them
and resealed them. Keep in mind that the tariffs for most commodities
allowed multiple consignees; the car went the first, who removed his
portion of the shipment, was resealed and went to the second, and so
on. Sounds like LCL, right? But it's not, as it is moving as a full
carload under the multiple consignee provisions of the carload tariff.
The LCL tariff would be a higher rate.

And, in response to another message, I thought that car heaters were
lowered into the empty ice bunkers. In that case, the car seal didn't
need to be broken to service them.

Dennis


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Hi:

This must've been brand new in 1962 because in mid-1961 there were no R_Ms at all listed for ATSF, nor a SFRM reporting mark. One reporting mark website claims that mark did not appear until 1965, FWIW.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: tchenoweth@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

It was my understanding that Santa Fe's SFRM cars were meat reefers with
racks for hanging meat. They may be outside the time period of the group, but I
have a photo of one car taken in 1962. I think the book that John Moore is
working on should shed some light on these. Tom Chenoweth


.


Re: refrigerator cars in Fairfax, MN

Thomas Baker
 

Clark,

Your posts on the refrigerator cars in Fairfax was useful for giving me an idea of how various refrigerator cars moved around and what surprising contents were shipped in them. I don't suppose there's any way to determine what railroads or meat packing houses those URT cars were leased to.

I just happened to look at the Branchline web site, something I rarely do because I do not model in HO, but today I did. I saw a Branchline version of a URTX car #95503 leased to the M&StL. What has my curiosity aroused is the emblem: It was a black and white version of the pre-Schroeder black/red/white "Peoria Gateway" emblem. Two questions:

1. Do you know how long URT cars in the 95500 series stayed around in M&StL service?
2. The other surprise, not a refrigerator car at all, was a green box car #50416. I knew about the series running through 5398 being green. I knew that some 53000-series cars were green. I saw that the late Vaughn Ward had a photo of one of them, 53024, I think. Anyway, is Branchline correct in offering a 53000-series car in green?

Tom

________________________________


Re: Disappointed

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "John Huey" <mancosbob@...> wrote:
used glue when I attached mine ....
So, John, You've built the Speedwitch Sou Gondola?

For the rest of you that might be interested. Tichy part 20 has a
rectangular cutout in the center of the "cradle" section. The brake
cylinder has a rectangular lug in the center of the flat mounting
area. The rectangles will `key' together. And there you have it,
mystery solved. So, don't file off the rectangle on the cylinder
thinking it's a piece of flash.

Now back to discussing meat being carried in produce reefers.

Clark Propst


REMINDER: Western Prototype Modelers Meet (WPM) This Saturday

dh30973 <76523.1060@...>
 

THIS SATURDAY WPM in La Habra, California

Western Prototype Modelers Meet (WPM)

17th Annual Meet, Saturday October 7, 2006

The west coast's largest gathering for prototype modelers, now on
Saturday

Model Display: WPM will have 6000 sq. ft. of display space for
layouts, dioramas and models! Last year over 130 modelers
participated in WPM, displaying over 700 models. See our website for
photos from past WPM events. WPM 2006 will feature an HO scale
operating "Free-mo" modular layout.

Bring your modeling projects, finished, or "in the works". Share
ideas & techniques with fellow modelers; see old friends, meet new
friends.

WPM welcomes modelers of all roads, all scales and eras!

Clinics/Seminars, in order of presentation:
10:00 Mike Rose: Rebuilding & Modernizing a Layout Section; Trials
& Tribulations
11:15 Tim Frederick: Overview of 20K gal Non-Insulated Tank Cars,
(1960s to Present)
2:00 Gene Fusco: (of Railyard Models), Building Modern Urethane
Craftsman Kits
3:15 Chad Hewitt: Prototype Digital Photography
4:30 Ken Edmier: Modeling Cement and Concrete Industries

Exhibitors: Manufacturers, photographers and publishers will
participate in WPM.
Scheduled to appear: Athearn, Atlas, Details West, BLMA, Rail Yard
Models, Don Sims Photos, Red Cap Line
(Exhibitors: pre-registration is required, contact WPM at the phone
number below.)

La Habra Community Center: 101 W. La Habra Blvd. La Habra, CA.
WPM Meet admission: $15.00, or $12.00 if you bring models to display.

Admission desk opens at 8:30am, model display area opens 9:00am, and
seminars run from 10:00am - 5:30pm. Raffle drawings at 12:15 and
5:45pm. This year's event has been extended and runs through 7pm!

Updated info on speakers, program & schedule:
http://www.westernprototypemodelers.org/
Write: info@... or call Tim Costello at 714-
832-8696

Raffle prizes donated by hobby retailers, publishers & model
manufacturers

Images from last years meet:
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/wpm2005
http://www.pbase.com/maverick_modeler/freemo_at_wpm_2005

Hope you can make it.
Dave Hussey


Re: Disappointed

John Huey <mancosbob@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Clark Propst" <cepropst@...> wrote:

I'm amazed that we have x-ray vision to see into those old reefers
to know if the meat was canned, cut-packaged-frozen, or hanging from a
homemade device or all the above and how it was handled. Yet no one
knows how to attach Tichy part 20 to the brake cylinder. Well, I
figured it out and I ain't telln'
Signed Disappointed

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hmmmmmmm hmmmmmm hmmmmmmm haaaaaa ..... MUUUUU HA HA HA HAAAAAAAA, I
used glue when I attached mine .... Thunder Roars and Lightning
Flashes .... Heeeeee Heeeeeee Heeeeeeee Heeeeeeeeeee HEEEEEEEeeeeee


Re: Hopper ribs

mjmcguirk@...
 

David,
Thanks for input, that's what I thought I was seeing.

Marty McGuirk


Disappointed

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I'm amazed that we have x-ray vision to see into those old reefers to know if the meat was canned, cut-packaged-frozen, or hanging from a homemade device or all the above and how it was handled. Yet no one knows how to attach Tichy part 20 to the brake cylinder. Well, I figured it out and I ain't telln'
Signed Disappointed


Re: Hopper ribs

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Now that the Photo secton works, never mind. They're just regular hat-section ribs welded onto the side sheets.

David Thompson


Re: New Books -"The Postwar Freight Car Fleet"

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

I spoke with the gals at Chattanooga early last week to see whether or not the new book by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta was in, because I had ordered one a month ago and needed to order a second for a friend in the UK. The gals told me that they expected them in at the end of the week (Sept. 29th or 30th), but that they could not guarantee it because the printer had put them off twice in the past. Hopefully, they got them in and they will be out soon.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Sandifer" <jssand@...> wrote:

This interests me a great deal. Everything I have ever read says the
ATSF had no meat reefers (I suppose meaning hanging meat reefers) and
this is the first documentation I have seen or ATSF reefers being used
in meat service. I suppose this is cut meat being sent LCL, is that
correct? This being the case, the MSTL took empty ATSF reefers and
put them into LCL service.

Any more explanation?
Hold the phone! We're talking canned meat here, not cut meat. In the
era we're talking, there was no way to ship cut meat without hanging
it, and you can't hang meat in a produce reefer; you need meat rails,
which makes the car RSM under the AAR mechanical codes. Since most the
cars being talked about are RS, they are not carrying hanging meat.

They are also not in LCL service, just because the agent opened them
and resealed them. Keep in mind that the tariffs for most commodities
allowed multiple consignees; the car went the first, who removed his
portion of the shipment, was resealed and went to the second, and so
on. Sounds like LCL, right? But it's not, as it is moving as a full
carload under the multiple consignee provisions of the carload tariff.
The LCL tariff would be a higher rate.

And, in response to another message, I thought that car heaters were
lowered into the empty ice bunkers. In that case, the car seal didn't
need to be broken to service them.

Dennis


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

This interests me a great deal. Everything I have ever read says the ATSF had no meat reefers (I suppose meaning hanging meat reefers) and this is the first documentation I have seen or ATSF reefers being used in meat service. I suppose this is cut meat being sent LCL, is that correct? This being the case, the MSTL took empty ATSF reefers and put them into LCL service.

Any more explanation?
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


CAR DATE TRAIN CONTENTS STYLE CUSTOMER
SFRD 23543 6/5/47 72 refer meat RS 41'1
SFRD 25069 2/26/48 99 beer RS 41'2 refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 25069 2/26/48 yard beer mty rs refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 25218 6/19/47 72 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 25465 7/11/47 73 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 26449 9/4/47 72 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 32448 6/26/47 99 beer RS 41'5 refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 32448 6/26/47 yard beer mty rs refer Fullertn Bottling
SFRD 34265 7/31/47 72 meat made mty RS 41'5 refer
SFRD 481767 9/25/47 72 meat ?

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

tchenoweth@...
 

It was my understanding that Santa Fe's SFRM cars were meat reefers with
racks for hanging meat. They may be outside the time period of the group, but I
have a photo of one car taken in 1962. I think the book that John Moore is
working on should shed some light on these. Tom Chenoweth

136521 - 136540 of 193387