Date   

Southport Tank Cars

gary laakso
 

The Great Northern Annual Report for 1940 shows a picture of the Willmar, MN yard and therein I count 6 silver/white tank cars, two of which have SOUTHPORT on the sides of the tank car. Being a GN yard, the lettering is different size on the two single dome tank cars. The other silver cars are too distant or show the ends to confirm that the are SOUTHPORT cars. The picture shows many GN truss rod boxcars with all wood roofs and only one newer boxcar, ATSF 121810(?).

Does anyone know where the Southport facility was on the Great Northern or where they were interchanged from?

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


Auto Carrier

Bruce
 

If Mont Switzer is on the list, I have a question
about one of the models that he had at the Napperville
meet.

Looking at the photos, of the Napperville meet, that
David Hussey posted on the web: on page 10 there is a
picture of a model by Mont Switzer. The model is of
two auto carriers on an 85(?) foot flat car.

I would be interested in finding out more about the
carriers. Are they a prototypical model? Were they a
manufactured kit or scratch built? And most
importanly the era in which they would have been used?

Any information on the carriers would be greatly
appreciated.

Bruce

Bruce R. Brantner, Sr.
Coyote Trails RR
Coyote Div. of SF RR



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Re: House car for groceries?

Ian Cranstone
 

Kurt Laughlin said:
Yeah, I know, I was just using the common appelation, taken from the
AAR class description: "RB - Beverage, ice, water, or vinegar
refrigerator. . ."
On 2-Nov-06, at 12:55 PM, Anthony Thompson replied:
Actually, Kurt, IIRC the "B" part of "RB" comes from
"bunkerless" refrigerator.
Well, actually both are correct -- from my studies of AAR definitions from the back of ORERs (with issue dates in brackets):

"RB" -- Beer and Ice Refrigerator. A car with body and doors equipped with insulation, having no ice tanks or ventilating devices (1/17-2/26).

"RB" -- Beer, Ice, Water, Vinegar or Produce Refrigerator. A car with body and doors equipped with insulation and of the same general construction as the standard refrigerator car with the exception that the car is not equipped with ice tanks or ventilating devices (3/27-3/29).

"RB" -- Beverage, Ice, Water or Vinegar Refrigerator, similar in design to a bunker refrigerator, except that it is not equipped with ice bunkers and with or without ventilating devices (7/32-4/58).

[warning -- post steam era definitions follow, including the versions specifically naming these cars as bunkerless, as per Tony's comment]

"RB" -- A bunkerless refrigerator car similar in design to an "RS" car with or without ventilating devices and with or without devices for attaching portable heaters. Constructed with a minimum of 3 in. of insulation in sides and ends and 3-1/2 in. in floor and roof based on the insulation requirements given in A.A.R. Supplement to Manual Plate C-2 or a thickness reduced in proportion to the thermal conductivity of the insulation (10/66-1/80).

"RB" -- A bunkerless refrigerator car similar in design to an "RS" car with or without ventilating devices and with or without devices for attaching portable heaters. Constructed with insulation in side ends, floor and roof to meet maximum UA factor requirement of 250 BTU/ F/Hour for 50 foot cars and 300 BTU/F/Hour for 60 foot cars. Effective for cars ordered new after March 1, 1984. (7/84-4/99) <BR>Cars built or rebuilt prior to March 1, 1984, must have been constructed with a minimum of 3 in. of insulation in the sides and ends and 3-1/2 in. in floor and roof based on the insulation requirements given in AAR Standard S-2010 or a thickness reduced in proportion to the thermal conductivity of the material. (7/84-4/99)

Ian & Katherina Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


Re: Indoor sidings

Greg Martin
 

Andy and all,

Working in the UP Albina Yard's old Car shops at my reload (Vortex Reload, Inc.~ Shameless plug) built heaven only knows when the 40s or 50s (perhaps older) the tracks (3) that runs through the facility are flush with the concrete surface. There was obvious ties set, then rails laid, concrete poured over them or possibly concrete footings poured, then rail attached to the footings, then concrete poured over the footings. But regardless the rails are the same height as the concrete surface. The facility is about ¼ mile long I would guess. The same is true for the approach to the building on either end. This is how I have seen all sidings in the PNW that have rails running into all building that load under cover, i.e., the old Champion Plywood Mill in Lebanon, OR as well as others. I have never seen rail attached to the surface of a concrete, making the rails higher than the surface.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: asmiller@mitre.org
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Indoor sidings


Doers anyone on this list know how sidings are built inside of
industrial buildings in our era? Are the rails bolted to concrete
floors? Is a pit dug to accommodate ties and ballast? Are either of
theses techniques used?

regards,

Andy Miller


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Re: Longevity and numbers of M&StL double sheathed boxcars

Douglas Harding
 

Mark, according to Gene Green the cars in question were ex-W&LE/NKP 36'
steel ctrsill box cars w/truss cars purchased used by the M&StL in 1938. The
# series was 26000 to 26418 even #'s, total of 210 cars. They lasted on the
RR until 1944. I am not aware of any models that match, and Gene does not
show any models for these cars in his recently updated M&StL model list.


Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowacentralrr.org

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Re: House car for groceries?

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

This seems like an incomplete account to me. There were
plenty of
cars, such as auto parts cars, paper cars, and other specific cargoes,
which were in assigned service through "return to" placards. Before
1960, not many of them had protective devices. I suppose they COULD
have been confiscated, but AFAIK those assignments were usually
honored. Can anyone expand on this?
I donno, but in the fifties the Soo Line had a couple dozen 40' single
sheathed auto cars that they rebuilt as XI's for the wet pulp trade; I
assume that the insulation was an attempt to keep the bales of pulp
from freezing to the car. As discussed earlier, the ORER states that
the car doors were not insulated.

They obviously did not have loaders, but as wet pulp is a load that is
only slightly less contaminating to the car than hides, I doubt that
anyone would try to confiscate them for foodstuff loading.

Dennis


BN m/w Cars

raildata@...
 

The BNSF has sonated four old m/w steel boxcars to a Colorado rail group.
They have asked us here at the Colorado Railroad Library to help them find
anything on the orginal numbers of these cars. We are pretty sure they are ex-GN
cars.

BN numbers are:

950413
951859
951684
951858

Relize this is a bit out of the STMFC years but maybe someone can at least
direct me to a source.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Re: House car for groceries?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
There was an important administrative reason that favored the RBL over the RB, or XI. Railroad owned RB and XI cars were general service and could not be assigned. By 1960 there was a strong trend to using only assigned cars in insulated food service because it was much easier to assure car supply and maintain the quality of the cars. RB and XI, as general service cars could not be restricted to not haul commodites that the food products shippers would consider as contaminating. The RBL, as a car with load protective devices fell under a Car Service Directive that allowed these cars to be restricted to assigned service.
This seems like an incomplete account to me. There were plenty of cars, such as auto parts cars, paper cars, and other specific cargoes, which were in assigned service through "return to" placards. Before 1960, not many of them had protective devices. I suppose they COULD have been confiscated, but AFAIK those assignments were usually honored. Can anyone expand on this?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: House car for groceries?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin said:
Yeah, I know, I was just using the common appelation, taken from the AAR class description: "RB - Beverage, ice, water, or vinegar refrigerator. . ."
Actually, Kurt, IIRC the "B" part of "RB" comes from "bunkerless" refrigerator.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Indoor sidings

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Doers anyone on this list know how sidings are built inside of
industrial buildings in our era? Are the rails bolted to concrete
floors? Is a pit dug to accommodate ties and ballast? Are either of
theses techniques used?


regards,

Andy Miller


Wheel Painting Jig

Jim Betz
 

I put a photo in the FILES section in a folder of the same name as
this post. The photo shows how I make my own wheel painting jig by
taking a piece of brass tubing and filing a toothed edge on one end and
cutting holes in foam. If you use the correct size foam you can do
both ends of the wheelset at once.
When I put the wheels in the foam I take a hold of the point of the
axle and sort of 'stir' it to get it down to where the foam forms just
a slight dimple to the tread (see pic). I let the paint dry fully
before I take them out. You will get very little, if any, over spray
on the treads. The same jig works for all code wheels (110,88,etc.)
and also for both 33" and 36". Not sure what size the tubing is, never
measured it. I just took a wheel set to my brass bits box and found a
hunk that was just smaller than the tread.
Oh yes, to cut the holes in the foam with the brass hole saw I just
chuck it up in a drill and pull the centers out after I've cut them all.

Feel free to add your own pics of your own jigs if you have them!

- Jim in San Jose


Re: RPM meets

CJ Riley
 

Charlie,

FYI...Open judging is the norm at NMRA nationals and many regionals. Folks are
welcome to listen without commenting and it is intendied that they may learn
something. It certainly sounds like the smudge was not obviously weathering,
but it is also possibly due to mediocre judging.

CJ Riley

--- Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net> wrote:

Tony-
I remember walking around the Contest Room at an NMRA National during judging
(somehow they were so wrapped up in their deliberations that they didn't kick
me out!!!) and overhearing the judges arguing if the smudges on the side of a
drop-dead beautiful scratchbuilt coaling tower were intentional weathering or
poor workmanship....and, the conclusion was, since it wasn't noted on the
entry form, it must not have been weathering. That kind of "system" (or
people's interpretation of it) can ruin any desire to work to get a merit
badge!!!
By contrast, there wasn't a model on display at Naperville that I didn't
appreciate....and thanks to everyone who brought them and the presentors who
spent the time and effort to share the results of their prototype and
modeling research in the sessions!!! (It was also fun to see the results of
some of my "modeling"....albeit with the help of some Korean and Chinese
factory workers... running around on the Midwest ModuTrak layout.... and
especially the World's Largest BLI Locomotive...
the ex- DRINW 121 / Ex BN 121 / nee CB&Q 9255 at the Illinois Railway Museum
which was recently painted as CB&Q 9255 using my Broadway Limited artwork)!!!
Charlie Vlk







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Re: RPM meets

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I remember walking around the Contest Room at an NMRA National during judging (somehow they were so wrapped up in their deliberations that they didn't kick me out!!!) and overhearing the judges arguing if the smudges on the side of a drop-dead beautiful scratchbuilt coaling tower were intentional weathering or poor workmanship....and, the conclusion was, since it wasn't noted on the entry form, it must not have been weathering . . .
I understand your point, Charlie, but put yourself in the position of a judge. Evaluating by eyeball only is not how the NMRA contest is managed. Like it or not, the NMRA system is an internally consistent one with certain goals.
I don't know which contest you visited, but "open judging," in which anyone is welcome to watch and listen to judging (though not to converse or interject), is applied from time to time. Personally, I am greatly in favor of it. Contestants, present or future, learn an enormous amount by seeing what the judges are trying to do. I'm advocating that you see it in the same light.
Keep in mind that "drop dead beautiful" mostly describes "finish," and such a model may have numerous flaws in workmanship (small ones, evident to judges who examine closely), or in prototype conformity. Whatever the NMRA contest is, it isn't a "Beauty Contest."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: House car for groceries?

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Kurt Laughlin" fleeta@verizon.net kurt_laughlin Wed Nov 1, 2006 4:59 pm (PST) Hi Garth:

Yeah, I know, I was just using the common appelation, taken from the AAR
class description: "RB - Beverage, ice, water, or vinegar refrigerator. . ."

Thanks,
KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Groff

RBLs weren't just for beverages. . . .
===================

It seems to me that there is something here that is being mis-stated. Here is a perspective on the car type as seen by someone who was in car management in the 60's. My cooments apply pretty much equally to the 50's.

An RB was an insulated car similar to the ubiquitous RS, but without ice bunkers.

The original beer, wine, etc designation disappeared around 1960. But that didn't really tell you what the cars were used for. It was an obsolete term going back to at least 1917.

For more detail on the veolution of the designations, here is a link to a site that has the codes as presented in ORER's from 1917 to 1999. http://www.nakina.net/aartype.html#Reefer

The same car with load protective devices became an RBL. I believe these became really common in the 60's, maybe late 50's, but Tim Gilbert can provide the right statistics.

There was an important administrative reason that favored the RBL over the RB, or XI. Railroad owned RB and XI cars were general service and could not be assigned. By 1960 there was a strong trend to using only assigned cars in insulated food service because it was much easier to assure car supply and maintain the quality of the cars. RB and XI, as general service cars could not be restricted to not haul commodites that the food products shippers would consider as contaminating. The RBL, as a car with load protective devices fell under a Car Service Directive that allowed these cars to be restricted to assigned service.

BTW, the only difference between XI and Rb was that to be a car type R a car had to meet a specified minimum insulation requirement.

Any of those car types could be used for commodities that required temperature protection, from chocolate in the summer to canned goods in the winter.






Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: RPM meets

Charles Hladik
 

Charlie,
Having judged at NMRA events I find that the "open judging" is
beneficial to the entrant and sightseers. And it sure has improved my modeling!
Sure many will never see operation, but a lot of them will. They are not
just "another pretty face" but highly detailed models. OK, so some are "just
another pretty face" because they will never see the layout, but "popular
voting" just doesn't do justice to the detail.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division


Re: Longevity and numbers of M&StL double sheathed boxcars

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I'm at work, so I don't have access to any info other than to say these
were 36' cars with three different end bracing treatments in the same
number series. All M&StL box cars were even numbered all other car
types were odd numbered. The cars Soph protographed were at one of the
local cement plants, there were four of them. I think they went to the
Boone & Scenic Valley with the L&M caboose and wood side dump jennies.
There's an in service photo in one of the RP Cycs.
Later,
Clark Propst


Longevity and numbers of M&StL double sheathed boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some information regarding some Minneapolis & St Louis
36ft double sheathed, truss rod boxcars. Two photos are available on
the NEB&W website at:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Soph-Marty/XM-shorty-M&StL-
26000-6-SDM.jpg

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Soph-Marty/XM-shorty-M&StL-
26250-from-Propst.jpg

The NEB&W website simply lists the cars as belonging to the 26000
series. Does anyone know the complete number series, and was the
numbering even or odd? Also, were any of these cars still in
interchange service in the late 1940s?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Lettering PRR and B&O gondola help?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Folks;

Are any of you aware of a decal made for the 3'5" Shadow Keystone used on
some classes of gondola? Also, of any makers of an 18" SK logo? Other than
the out-of-production Middle Division G22 SK set, is there any other GOOD set
available that has the smaller "paired" (~11") spelled out PENNSYLVANIA
(other than the Champ "Long Gon" set)? I am finding more and more gaps in
the coverage, and have several painted gons waiting to be lettered in
"other-than-Circle Key" schemes, but there seem to be no decals available....



Also, is anyone aware of a GOOD decal set that I can use for a B&O O-27A in
the later billboard scheme that has the smaller ampersand? The Champ one
seems rather yellow and fuzzy, but I will use it in the event there is
nothing else.



Thanks for any advice!



Elden Gatwood


Re: RPM meets

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-
I remember walking around the Contest Room at an NMRA National during judging (somehow they were so wrapped up in their deliberations that they didn't kick me out!!!) and overhearing the judges arguing if the smudges on the side of a drop-dead beautiful scratchbuilt coaling tower were intentional weathering or poor workmanship....and, the conclusion was, since it wasn't noted on the entry form, it must not have been weathering. That kind of "system" (or people's interpretation of it) can ruin any desire to work to get a merit badge!!!
By contrast, there wasn't a model on display at Naperville that I didn't appreciate....and thanks to everyone who brought them and the presentors who spent the time and effort to share the results of their prototype and modeling research in the sessions!!! (It was also fun to see the results of some of my "modeling"....albeit with the help of some Korean and Chinese factory workers... running around on the Midwest ModuTrak layout.... and especially the World's Largest BLI Locomotive...
the ex- DRINW 121 / Ex BN 121 / nee CB&Q 9255 at the Illinois Railway Museum which was recently painted as CB&Q 9255 using my Broadway Limited artwork)!!!
Charlie Vlk


Re: Modeler's Choice Wheel Painting jig

Randy Bachmann <r.bachmann@...>
 

Hi Robert,

I Just updated our website (http://www.modelerschoice.com/index.htm)
with information on the wheel painting masks. They are only $3.00 per
set. They come in 33" or 36" wheel diameters. Each set will hold 8
wheelsets.

Randy Bachmann
Modeler's Choice


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob Miller <cajonpass02@...> wrote:

Where can I find those.

I saw the photo from Naperville.




Robert J. Miller, CFA

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land it will be in the guise
of fighting a foreign enemy"
James Madison, 4th U.S. President, (1751-1836)




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