Date   

Re: Interchange of Mexican freight cars?

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Back in the '60s, a neighbor with whom I rode the bus, was a car agent(?) for
the Pennsy. His job was to track down missing cars. There was a group of box
cars that wound up in Mexican limbo. He was told to forget it...it was a common
problem. He claimed to have never lost a car and became obsessed. He took a
vacation in Mexico and tracked down the cars. They were on a remote unused
siding and were being lived in by a half dozen families. They were so chewed up
that he wrote them off, but they weren't lost!

CJ Riley


--- Dave Nelson <muskoka@...> wrote:

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Hi:

Looking through the ORER there are quite a few Mexican railroads with
a sizeable number of cars. It seems to me that Canadian cars were
quite freely interchanged but not those from Mexico. How extensive
was the interchange of Mexican cars in the US? How should the
Mexican car numbers be reflected in our car fleets?

Depends on what you mean by freely. Canadian carloads sent south represent
only 10% of all Canadian carloadings, some portion of which would be in US
cars being sent home. IMO that's not freely interchanged. OTOH if you mean
with a minimum of problems, then, yes, freely is probably the word to use.

As for Mexican cars, based on what I've read the only proper use of the word
free would be in the context of US roads not getting their good condition
cars returned. Ever. Or getting a bad order Mexican car numbered for a US
road. And trade itself was no doubt less than what was seen with Canada.

IIRC there were periodic embargo's placed against exports to Mexaco because
the cars were not being returned.

Dave Nelson






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Re: Lettering on SFRD roof top

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 7, 2006, at 12:07 PM, David Karkoski wrote:

I am finishing the assembly of a Sunshine SFRD reefer and would like
clarification on reporting marks on roof. When at Naperville I noted
that Stan R's SFRD cars had reporting marks on the roof. Was that the
common practice or is it specific to car series? Time period of
interest1950.
David, it depends on whether the car you are modeling had the original hatch cover arrangement, with the covers hinged at the ends of the car and opening toward the center, or the later one (designed to fold flat and clear mechanical icing machines) which had the covers hinged toward the center of the car and opening towards the ends. On cars with the earlier arrangement, the reporting marks and numbers were stenciled on the right hand hatch cover at each end so that they could be read from the icing platform when open and standing vertical against the hatch cover rests. On cars with the later arrangement, such as the mid-to-late 1950s reefers modeled by Stan, the reporting marks and numbers were on the roof above the doors.

Richard Hendrickson


Details of rebuilt M&StL Fowler clone boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions about some MSTL Fowler clone boxcars
following rebuilding in the 1930s. The cars in question are from the
series MSTL 18000-18998, 500 cars built in 1916 by Bettendorf. They
were identical to a series of Rock Island boxcars, RI 44700-45699,
built in 1915. A prototype photo, taken after the car was weighed in
May, 1939, can be found on page 89 of the June 2006 issue of RMC. As
built, these cars would have had Murphy plain mullion roofs and two
braces on the doors. In 1934, the cars were rebuilt and new roofs
were installed. What I would like to know is:

1. What sort of roof was used in the rebuilding?

2. Were the two door braces replaced with a single brace in the
center of the door?

3. Was the "The Peoria Gateway" slogan and the attendant lettering
common on these cars?

4. When were these cars off the roster?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Lettering on SFRD roof top

David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
 

I am finishing the assembly of a Sunshine SFRD reefer and would like
clarification on reporting marks on roof. When at Naperville I noted
that Stan R's SFRD cars had reporting marks on the roof. Was that the
common practice or is it specific to car series? Time period of
interest1950.



David Karkoski


Speedwitch M26D/M26E Durea Underframe

S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

I just received Speedwitch's very nice B&O M-26D/M-26E Dureau underframe kit - underframe and decals only - and have been itching to start on it.

But, I can't find a reference as to how the train line brake pipe is routed, especially as to how and where it crosses the center sill. Rather than making my own assumptions (and finding out later I'm wrong?) can anyone please offer some advice?

Thanks!

Regards,
Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks, Larry! I think you need one of these, too.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Larry
Kline
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:55 AM
To: STMFC list
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

From a search at the CA State RR museum library, 1500-1506 first appear
in the 10/54 ORER.

The listings I have are:
10/55 - 1500-1510
10/56 through 1/61 - 1500-1512
1/62 through 10/64 - 1511, 1512
4/66 - not listed under NKP or P&WV

I don't know why they were acquired or how they were used.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Larry Kline
 

From a search at the CA State RR museum library, 1500-1506 first appear in the 10/54 ORER.

The listings I have are:
10/55 - 1500-1510
10/56 through 1/61 - 1500-1512
1/62 through 10/64 - 1511, 1512
4/66 - not listed under NKP or P&WV

I don't know why they were acquired or how they were used.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Couplers

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Gee Guys, I'm sorry I mentioned Denny AnsBach in my post<G>
Clark ProPst

We came over before 1780 Denny...see I listen to you.


Derailments, Coupler Swing, and related topics ...

Jim Betz
 

Denny/et al,

I suspect that the size of the head of the coupler is the least
significant issue with respect to reliable coupling/uncoupling.

Has anyone on this list ever seen anything that talks about the
relationships between coupler shaft length, amount of swing in the
coupler (as determined by the width of the coupler box), the distance
of the swing point of the coupler from the mounting point of the
truck, car length, and track curvature ... as all of those relate to
reliable operations. (Yes, I know that wheel profile and flange
depth is related as well ... for the purposes of this discussion
I'm willing to defer that part of the equation to a later time when
it makes more sense ... at least to me.)

For instance, it is common knowledge that 90-foot cars with body
mounted couplers wont go thru an 18-inch radius curve without
putting so much side force on the wheels that they will derail.
Similarly, if your layout has no turnouts smaller than a #10 and
no curves smaller than 30" radius you can reliably operate a lot of
equipment that simply won't do on a layout with more restrictive
curvatures.
The real railroads all had operating rules that 'prohibited' certain
types of equipment on certain routes - and I've seen the crew of 4449
literally walking-and-watching it thru a section of track to ensure
that it didn't derail due to tight curvature. We need the same thing
for our model railroads as well. An example of which is that on the
club I'm a member of we have a section of track known as "the branch"
and that track was built to be reliable with 4-axle diesels and does
not support 6-axle trucks ... and we have designated it as such.

A lot of the products we use are 'compromised' (ie. designed) based
upon the desire to operate on track such as Atlas 18" snap track. Some
of those design decisions are built in to our 'legacy' products. If
we had some kind of table/guidelines that addressed the issues with
respect to a variety of curvatures we'd be able to determine just how
much scale accuracy our layout(s) will realistically tolerate.

So has any one ever seen a table/formula that describes this
geometry in 'realistic fashion' ... ???
- Jim in San Jose


Re: House car for groceries?

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tony,

I have little doubt what was being done in 1965 was being done
before 1960. The CB&Q's "Empty Slip Bill" was an old form. I
have a couple pads somewhere, if I see one I'll get a date.

At the yard in question we only made three groups. The Clerk
or Agent/Operator or Operator used a certain column to show
the grouping. That was all that concerned the crew.

As to wheel reports and setout lists in most cases these were
made by the Conductor off the waybills. On the CB&Q wheel reports
were traditionally made from the rear of the train. That gave the
Conductor room to add pickups at the bottom. Setout lists were
usually from the head end. You could not always count on getting
a setout list. If you did not you made one from the waybills.

In a much later era but in accordance with the same policy I
once had a Conductor who had picked up about 75 cars from the
GB&W. The GB&W Conductors usually left a car number only list
with the bills and our Conductors usually just numbered that
list. This Conductor just handed me a pile of neatly folded
waybills. I asked for a list and he said "That's your list,
just don't get them out of order". When I left that morning I
took an internal road where I could see that track. Working
from memory I did not see any positioning errors in that track.
This Conductor did not usually work the end that picked up from
the GB&W.

Always something different to keep you on your toes.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, 06 November, 2006 11:50
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?


Malcolm Laughlin wrote (replying to Russ Strodtz):
> Interesting, I had never heard of a railroad of that era
> consistently using waybills for empties, but it is one way to keep
> some control of empty car flow.
> But empty general service cars returning on record rights or being
> home road cars did not require waybills, just a line on the
> interchange report.

Can we define whether Russ' mention of CB&Q waybilling empty
cars was at all common before 1960 (the period of this list)? I have
always heard of MTYs in the 1950s being handled as Malcolm describes,
just as switchlist or wheel report entries.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Mike and Greg;



Thanks for the info! The car with the Viking roof would be a natural for a
resin kit, wouldn't it?



I need to get off my duff and send an order to Stan.



The thing that concerns me about a bash is that the side panels aren't
duplicated. Those two rows of rivets, one being on top of the overlapping
part of the sheet being so prominent, is a pretty stand-out feature of the
car.



Greg, you are right; the small print on the left hand door on the P&WV car
indicates it is sealed. They also added a small wedge in the top left door
track to keep it sealed. I have no idea why the P&WV got two of these,
sealed the door, and installed DF equipment, but the claim that they were
auto parts cars is not confirmed. I suspect it had something to do with the
re-alignment of Rook yard and the P&WV's industries in the very late 50's or
very early 60's that lead to a new customer/need. They do appear to be the
P&WV's only 50-footers.



Mont does great work. I hope I get to see his car someday.



Take care, guys.



Thanks again,



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 6:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM



Just a note... Stan Rydarwicz des make a 50-foot Viking Roof to replace the
roof of the LL P2K car in his line of resin part. I have photos of one of
these P&WV cars in my collection. From what I understand the 50-foot cars in
this series came from NKP and were listed as single doors because the left
door was sealed shut. I think Larry Kline can share more about this car.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: mononinmonon@... <mailto:mononinmonon%40yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Elden,

This caught my eye because I had just seen Mont Switzer's model of
this car at the RPM meet in Mishawaka a few week's before. It is an
interesting model with two Des Plaines Hobbies Viking roofs spliced to
50 ft. Lo and behold, the same model shows up in the background of
one of Mont's photos in the same issue. According to the Trains.com
magazine index there was an article by Mont in the July 1996 MM
called: "Auto Parts Box Car" which had to do with a P2k car and the
NKP. Can anyone confirm this is the correct article?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

All;

I am sure we are all hoping that what we have heard about Mainline
Modeler
may be only temporary. It would be a great loss to have Bob Hundman
give up
contributing what he does, but it's is also true that he also gave up on
paying at least some of his authors, which couldn't last..

Does anyone know if any of the resin kit manufacturers intend to do
the NKP
double door boxcar(s) that were featured in the August issue of MM?
Does
anyone know the story about the transfer of two of these cars to the
P&WV,
and their intended service? Were the NKP cars DF-equipped? What
was their
service in latter days?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood
__________________________________________________________
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Re: House car for groceries?

ljack70117@...
 

I was born on Dec 11, 1931. In about one month I will be 75 if the good lord is willing and the creeks don't rise.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

On Nov 6, 2006, at 11:00 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:




I went to work for the Un Pac in 1949 and we were using way
bills for MTYs then.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
Good Lord, Larry, that's 57 years ago. How old ARE you, anyway?

SGL




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Couplers

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Clark Probst, musing over the first operations of his new fleet of fine models refers to coupler oratories?

Hmmmph.

The ease of use of scale-sized couplers in operations as we currently know them is a ramping-up work-in-progress and has yet to settle out. There are so many variables to be dealt with- many beyond our immediate control in this hobby- and in the end, one may have to pick his poison: scale cars with more limited or more difficult operations parameters vs. compromised-scale cars with wider and easier operations opportunities. There is no doubt that the small gathering range of these small couplers makes things more difficult, especially on curves. The wide axle side play so common to our models can also make things worse inasmuch as commonly one car has lurched on one side, while the next has lurched to the other making any possible good meeting of these small couplers a moot issue.

As Mont mentioned, the Accumate Proto scale couplers are less forgiving than other coupler installations, largely because unlike almost all other couplers out there, the coupler-and-its-scale-sized-box are engineered as a tightly integrated pair. If the box installation is imperfect, operation will likely be imperfect as well. Here are some tips on installing these couplers, all learned essentially from the school of hard knocks. However, if you read the directions carefully, almost all of these tips are already there for you.

Understand again that the scale coupler has an inherently smaller gathering range, and the scale box further reduces coupler swing. Small errors in alignment can translate into future problems in the ease and accuracy of coupling.

1) As Mont wrote, the boxes should be carefully aligned to the centerline of the car so that both screws are driven into the centerline itself. If the box is slightly cockeyed or off center, the small coupler's reduced gathering range is effectively made even smaller. Double check the centerline: I have found molded-on coupler boxes that have been distinctly off center, and in one instance bolster holes also off center. I routinely double check with a set of calipers.

2) Do not over tighten the #0-80 fastening screws! (!!). With two screws on centerline already holding the box in place and in alignment, they simply do not have to be over tight. Over tightening either draws down the box too tight on top of the coupler shanks, or more likely, actually expands the hollow post within so that it no longer allows the coupler free swinging movement.

3) If the box has to be shortened to fit, often the second screw hole is lost in the process, and then when the coupler assembly is put in place, one does have to over-tighten the remaining single screw to keep the box from swivelling out of alignment. Of course this means that the coupler is often again being squeezed or even being frozen in its box. There are several solutions to this:

a) If the new coupler box is being mounted within the confines of an existing standard coupler box, either keep in place and do not clip off the larger box's sides, or much better for scale appearance, clip off all of the sides except for small 'lips' at the rear just enough to form an effective 'clamp' that will keep the Accumate box centered and aligned. If the moulded box is not centered, or if a molded box is not already present, go to-

b) The use of a locating index pin: With the box centered and aligned, and the box already held in place tightly by the forward mounting screw, simply drill a #76 hole through the heel of the box well into the car underframe. In this hole drive a friction-fit .020" wire and then trim it off flush. Now back off the forward screw so that the coupler can now swing freely.

4) With this beautiful little scale box, the quite-visible heads of the fastening #0-80 screws can sometimes truly spoil the illusion! A solution is to substitute #00-90 flat head screws instead. This requires careful countersinking so that the flat head will lie truly flush (I do this by hand with an appropriate-sized sharp larger drill). The results are pretty stunning, IMHO (if one can apply that word to a lowly coupler box).

Do not (NOT) try this gambit with flat head 0-80 screws inasmuch as the depth of the required countersink will actually invade the hollow internal swivel post breaking it loose, and making everything hors d'combat.

5) Glue: The plastic used in the Accumate Protos is very hard, and I have presumed it is some sort of 'engineering plastic'- which of course is notorious for not taking kindly to being cemented. This is a presumption on my part, of course, but I simply have avoided any reliance on glue in this regard.

In many ways, this ongoing healthy discussion and debate somewhat parallels a much more ancient debate in our hobby: the reduction the depth of wheel flanges. Everybody survived.

Denny





--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: House car for groceries?

Schuyler Larrabee
 


I went to work for the Un Pac in 1949 and we were using way
bills for MTYs then.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
Good Lord, Larry, that's 57 years ago. How old ARE you, anyway?

SGL


Re: ART reefer info - kits and decals

proto48er
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@...> wrote:

Don
Look under the photo albums "New ART Reefer" it is one of the
Amarillo/MPHS models built up (and I have another one to do).

As to 'modern' ART wood reefers (circa 1940-50) Sunshine did one
years ago and I have two more that were recast by another firm as
complete bodies - so they were done in resin. They were nice
castings for the time but a plastic ART wood car would still be
welcome and fill a void. For the built-up Sunshine model look under
photo album 'Duckworth Freight Cars'. You can also do a R-40-10 ...
Charlie - We have an excellent "modern" ART wood reefer in "O" scale
that was done by Ultrascale II (Chooch) in urethane as a kit a couple
of years ago. They still come up on Ebay occasionally. It was a copy
of the prototype at the Nat. Museum of Transport in St Louis - I did
the drawings for it and Pat Duffin did the excellent pattern work.

When I was researching the car prior to making the drawings, I looked
EVERYWHERE for another wood ART reefer - to no avail. Searched up the
San Luis Valley in Colorado and in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas -
nada! Only found steel reefers. I even asked the attendees at two
MPHS annual conventions if anyone knew where another wood carbody was -
nada again.

Question - Has anyone in STMFC land seen one of these ART wood reefers
sitting on a farm somewhere? I saw them in ice service on the MoPac
as late as 1975, but all appear to be gone except the one in St
Louis. Fortunately, ART did standardize their reefer design, so the
St Louis car is representative of a large number of prototype cars.

As for steel reefers, we have "O" scale models of the Intermountain
PFE car that can be easily converted to ART with the addition of
Grandt Line wood reefer hinges and a structure of 1-1/2" angle iron at
each ice hatch, and a couple of other very minor changes. A.T. Kott


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Greg Martin
 

Just a note... Stan Rydarwicz des make a 50-foot Viking Roof to replace the roof of the LL P2K car in his line of resin part. I have photos of one of these P&WV cars in my collection. From what I understand the 50-foot cars in this series came from NKP and were listed as single doors because the left door was sealed shut. I think Larry Kline can share more about this car.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: mononinmonon@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM


Elden,

This caught my eye because I had just seen Mont Switzer's model of
this car at the RPM meet in Mishawaka a few week's before. It is an
interesting model with two Des Plaines Hobbies Viking roofs spliced to
50 ft. Lo and behold, the same model shows up in the background of
one of Mont's photos in the same issue. According to the Trains.com
magazine index there was an article by Mont in the July 1996 MM
called: "Auto Parts Box Car" which had to do with a P2k car and the
NKP. Can anyone confirm this is the correct article?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

All;

I am sure we are all hoping that what we have heard about Mainline
Modeler
may be only temporary. It would be a great loss to have Bob Hundman
give up
contributing what he does, but it's is also true that he also gave up on
paying at least some of his authors, which couldn't last..

Does anyone know if any of the resin kit manufacturers intend to do
the NKP
double door boxcar(s) that were featured in the August issue of MM?
Does
anyone know the story about the transfer of two of these cars to the
P&WV,
and their intended service? Were the NKP cars DF-equipped? What
was their
service in latter days?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Michael Aufderheide
 

Elden,

This caught my eye because I had just seen Mont Switzer's model of
this car at the RPM meet in Mishawaka a few week's before. It is an
interesting model with two Des Plaines Hobbies Viking roofs spliced to
50 ft. Lo and behold, the same model shows up in the background of
one of Mont's photos in the same issue. According to the Trains.com
magazine index there was an article by Mont in the July 1996 MM
called: "Auto Parts Box Car" which had to do with a P2k car and the
NKP. Can anyone confirm this is the correct article?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

All;

I am sure we are all hoping that what we have heard about Mainline
Modeler
may be only temporary. It would be a great loss to have Bob Hundman
give up
contributing what he does, but it's is also true that he also gave up on
paying at least some of his authors, which couldn't last..

Does anyone know if any of the resin kit manufacturers intend to do
the NKP
double door boxcar(s) that were featured in the August issue of MM?
Does
anyone know the story about the transfer of two of these cars to the
P&WV,
and their intended service? Were the NKP cars DF-equipped? What
was their
service in latter days?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


Re: "Class I"/MILW Ribsides

ljack70117@...
 

A class one RR was one that earned one million dollars or more. Less than the they were class 2 RRs. Road haul or switching did not matter.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Justin Kahn wrote:

I can't find the bit about the claim that "Class I" did not cover switching
roads (which another member already took exception to), but every list I can
recall of AAR Class I in the steam era included TRRA and BRC, among others.
Class I, I believe, was purely based on income.

And I cordially second Rod's recommendation about Ted Schnepf's ribsides; I
own one each of two of them and am very pleased with the quality. As Rod
says, they come assembled except for adding detail rather than as flat-kit
components. And the price isn't all that bad, considering what many kits of
equal quality in HO cost.
Jace Kahn



For those of you who want to play in O scale, Rails Unlimited
offers several one piece bodies molded in urethane (IIRC) that build
up into very nice models. They also offer decals for the cars.

http://tinyurl.com/yne343

Rod Miller
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip
http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: "Class I"/MILW Ribsides

Justin Kahn
 

I can't find the bit about the claim that "Class I" did not cover switching roads (which another member already took exception to), but every list I can recall of AAR Class I in the steam era included TRRA and BRC, among others. Class I, I believe, was purely based on income.

And I cordially second Rod's recommendation about Ted Schnepf's ribsides; I own one each of two of them and am very pleased with the quality. As Rod says, they come assembled except for adding detail rather than as flat-kit components. And the price isn't all that bad, considering what many kits of equal quality in HO cost.
Jace Kahn



For those of you who want to play in O scale, Rails Unlimited
offers several one piece bodies molded in urethane (IIRC) that build
up into very nice models. They also offer decals for the cars.

http://tinyurl.com/yne343

Rod Miller
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001


Fw: mine railroad pics

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

139121 - 139140 of 196904