Date   

Re: End Sill Brake Hose Hanger

Justin May <jmay59@...>
 

Does anyone on the list know of a source for the end sill brake pipe hanger cast in either brass or styrene? HO scale. This is the built up hanger that is found in Sunshine kits and seems to be quite common on freight cars.
David,
I've had very good results with the Kadee styrene hose assemblies and associated hangers. While the hoses are a little on the thick side, they can be cleaned up with a straight edge to provide a thinner profile. The hangers are some of the best I've used and when detailed similarly to the car, the results are worth the time and effort to reduce the hose.

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page151.htm

Justin May


Wine door locks

Justin May <jmay59@...>
 

List,
I have a question for those who are well versed in detailing the likes of open and covered hoppers. In the photo section of the group's webpage, I placed a photo of the key detail I have been searching for and without much luck in the available parts department, I am seeking the list's advice. In looking over the available candidates of specific Wine type door locking mechanisms (KD, Westerfield, F&C) I've happened upon the following available part through Custom Finishing. It is labeled part 275 - Wine door locks, quad hoppers. Has anyone used this part and how well does it appear to match that of the photo? (photo is likely pending moderator intervention since I am a new member)

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/browse/3e55

I appreciate all help and should anyone know of a similar or better appearing lock, please let me know. Thank you for your time.

Justin May


Re: gondola's

Charles Morrill
 

The meat packing plant in El Paso shipped a carload of offal several times a week (this is in the 1950s). An SP steel GS gon was used and it was heaped above the top of the sides. I don't know where SP sent these loads. The car was usually spotted on the south side of the main yard downtown (as far away from the yard office as you could put it) till it was switched into an outbound train.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "rockroll50401" <cepropst@netconx.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondola's


I have heard a story about meat packing plants shipping offal(?)
(packing plant remains) from one plant to another in
open gons. The story speaks of an Armour Plant in Kansas City
shipping to the Decker's Plant (Armour) in Mason City, Ia. According
to the story, low sided gons where used. But no further information.
That was the story told to me by the late Jack Shannon who was a switch
crew forman. He did not have anything else to add other than this was
not a routine move.

Chet French has fond memories of a carload.

Doug Harding has made a couple of convincing gon loads. They were
featured in his packinghouse presentation.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa




Re: House car for groceries?

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Paul" Malcolm:
I have never indicated that these agreements were a legally enforceable
contract; again you're in the theory world I was in the real world.
==========================

I have to respond because I've seen this comment a few times and it's just plain wrong. I'm talking from real world experience, not theory. I was a participant in the process in the offices at NYC where the decisions were made as to how many cars to assign to each pool in which we participating and how many to accept from other carriers.

One of the very costly practices that we managed to stop was that of other railroads sending cars for assignment on our line just because the shipper had convinced a railroad salesman that they were necessary. We also worked hard on limiting the number of cars in each pool to the number actually needed, which was usually less than the salesmen would have assigned. There were other railroads, notably SP, which just caved in the the shippers because they didn't have the staff to carefully analyze the assignments and be sure that they were profitable.

What I am saying here includes GM, Ford, etc. and did not lose us any desirable traffic because we could, in contrast to most railroads of that era (50's and 60's) show the shippers that we knew what we were doing.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


End Sill Brake Hose Hanger

David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
 

Does anyone on the list know of a source for the end sill brake pipe
hanger cast in either brass or styrene? HO scale. This is the built up
hanger that is found in Sunshine kits and seems to be quite common on
freight cars.



I have very little luck cleaning up, drilling and mounting the ones
provided in the Sunshine kits. They are also a fragile part once on the
car.



Thanks,



David Karkoski


Re: gondola's

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

All;



I modeled and presented an offal gon, based on extensive notes on the subject
from Al Buchan and others, using an F&C PRR GS, in an early issue of TKM. I
will try to dig that info and photos up.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis
C. Whiteley
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:26 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondola's



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce F.
Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tom,

Thanks for the great clarification!

Bruce

In regard to Bruce's tale of the car loads of horse manure on the
Octoraro Branch, he is correct in his description of how the
stuff was
transported, although hopper cars were also used.

When I was qualifying as a block operator to work at Lamokin
Tower on
the Pennsy Main Line Philadelphia to Landover, I rode MD-47/MD-48
from
Thurlow Yard at Trainer, Pa. to Oxford, Pa. on Christmas Day
1965. It
was the only time that I ever had the opportunity to ride the
Chester
Creek Secondary Track and the Octoraro Branch. I had to make the
trip
on my own time as the assignment clerk did not want to pay to send
anyone out riding freight trains. Legally, I could not have done
it "on
the clock" as this was almost always a 12 to 16 hour trip coming
and
going depending on how much switching had to be done. Operators
were
limited to 12 Hrs and 59 minutes on duty (in any position where
there
was one trick and no relief) and anything more would result in a
Federal
hours of service violation.

The crew signed up at 6:30 AM and we left Thurlow at 7:00 AM and
we had
several loads of manure in the consist that had to be set out at
Oxford. Fortunately, it was a nice cold, sunny day. We finally
made it
back to Thurlow at about 8 PM that evening. The first thing that
came
to my mind when I saw those loaded cars in the train was train
dispatcher Henry Welsh's story of riding the cupola of the cabin
car on
a hot day in the summer when he was qualifying as a dispatcher.
He said
that the cabin was right behind 8 cars loaded with manure and you
haven't lived until you were trying to eat your lunch while riding
behind them. Thank goodness for the cold weather and the fact
that they
were placed up in the body of the train.

The cars came up from Potomac Yard on TP-2 and set off at Thurlow
North
Yard for the MD-47 to take south the next day. The manure was
mixed
with straw which came from the racing stables and horse farms in
the
south. Once set off on the local public delivery tracks and
unloaded,
the manure was taken to the mushroom farms by truck in the
Avondale,
Kelton, Kennett Square, Toughkenamon and Oxford Pa. areas where
it was
"cooked" before being spread on the beds in the mushroom houses.
They
used steam to kill off any organisms that were contained in the
manure.
MD-48 would return the empties to Thurlow to be sent south to be
reloaded. These cars had been moving to and from the Branch for
many,
many years prior to my ride that Christmas morning.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
PH: (302) 738-4292
E-Mail: tmolsen@...
"Bruce F. Smith" wrote:

Doug asks...

To shift from our "discussion" of cement, I want to throw out
another
"rural legend". I have heard a story about meat packing plants
shipping
offal(?) (packing plant remains) from one plant to another in
open gons.
The story speaks of an Armour Plant in Kansas City shipping to
the
Decker's Plant (Armour) in Mason City, Ia. According to the
story, low
sided gons where used. But no further information. I believe
this took
place in the 40's or 50's.

Does anyone know about such shipments? And what kind of
cars/gons were
used. The Decker's plant was served by the M&StL. More
important what
models would work for the late 40's, and what would one use to
duplicate
the load?
On the Octararo branch of the PRR, there were a great number of
mushroom
houses (as Kennett Square PA is the self proclaimed "Mushroom
Capitol of
the World"). Now, the raw material for growing mushroom is
composted horse
manure, and a significant pool of this raw material existed in
the race
tracks and horse farms of the mid-atlantic region. On a
regular basis, the
PRR hauled gons of horse manure. These were GR or GRA
composite gons, that
by that time were nearing the ends of their lives. The gons
were
restricted from any other cargo. The cargo was finally
embargoed by the
PRR after the local fire departments refused to come out and
extinguish any
more burning gons, ignited by the heat of decomposing manure!
Obviously,
train placement of these cars was critical as they needed to be
as far from
either the loco or the cabin as possible...

As for offal, the gon might need to be "tight" as there is a
lot of liquid
(or they may not have cared if it leaked all over the place),
the car would
certainly be one in its final years of use, and it would likely
be in
captive service. If you need pictures of fresh offal, I can
always wander
down to the necropsy room, shoot a few and post them to the
files section,
or you can find several in a Google Images search <VBG>. To
model offal
you would need a thin walled tubing of a faily small diameter.
Bovine
intestine is up to ~2" diameter, and the color is anywhere from
a whitish
to purple, depending on circumstance. If the entire "pluck" is
to be
included, you might consider modeling clay for lungs (again
whitish), liver
(liver colored <G>) and heart (reddish to purple). You could
even make a
master and repetitively cast these parts in resin! Modeling
such a load
would definitely be a challenge...might I suggest a tarp
covered gon?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -
Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___
____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __
__ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |
||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|__________________________________
__|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-
0 0-0-0


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Along the route of MD47/MD48 on the Chester Creek Branch was
American Rendering Co., which some summers could be smelled from
Ridley Park. I imagine offal might have come from the
Philadelphia Abattoir Co. on the Washington Ave. Branch. I have
never seen any first-hand accounts of shipments of this other
fragant commodity, though.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -
Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___
____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __
__ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |
||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|__________________________________
__|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0
0-0-0


Re: gondola's

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I have heard a story about meat packing plants shipping offal(?)
(packing plant remains) from one plant to another in
open gons. The story speaks of an Armour Plant in Kansas City
shipping to the Decker's Plant (Armour) in Mason City, Ia. According
to the story, low sided gons where used. But no further information.
That was the story told to me by the late Jack Shannon who was a switch
crew forman. He did not have anything else to add other than this was
not a routine move.

Chet French has fond memories of a carload.

Doug Harding has made a couple of convincing gon loads. They were
featured in his packinghouse presentation.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Bulk Wine Shipments

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2006, at 8:05 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

My buddy Wayne A. Cole, in his book on the Beaver Valley Railroad company, writes that in 1947a former Gulf Oil refinery was converted to a winery (! ? !) and "tank cars of muscatel, port, and sherry were pumped into vats then bottled at the plant." (The BVRR was in Beaver, PA and jointly operated - and connected to - the PRR and P&LE RR.)
Muscatel? And (doubtless cheap) port and sherry? Ugh! The mind boggles! The taste buds shrivel! Any petroleum residue from the refinery that might have made its way into the finished product would have been undetectable.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bulk Wine Shipments

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

My buddy Wayne A. Cole, in his book on the Beaver Valley Railroad company, writes that in 1947a former Gulf Oil refinery was converted to a winery (! ? !) and "tank cars of muscatel, port, and sherry were pumped into vats then bottled at the plant." (The BVRR was in Beaver, PA and jointly operated - and connected to - the PRR and P&LE RR.)

KL


Re: gondola's

Louis C. Whiteley <octoraro1@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tom,

Thanks for the great clarification!

Bruce

In regard to Bruce's tale of the car loads of horse manure on the
Octoraro Branch, he is correct in his description of how the
stuff was
transported, although hopper cars were also used.

When I was qualifying as a block operator to work at Lamokin
Tower on
the Pennsy Main Line Philadelphia to Landover, I rode MD-47/MD-48
from
Thurlow Yard at Trainer, Pa. to Oxford, Pa. on Christmas Day
1965. It
was the only time that I ever had the opportunity to ride the
Chester
Creek Secondary Track and the Octoraro Branch. I had to make the
trip
on my own time as the assignment clerk did not want to pay to send
anyone out riding freight trains. Legally, I could not have done
it "on
the clock" as this was almost always a 12 to 16 hour trip coming
and
going depending on how much switching had to be done. Operators
were
limited to 12 Hrs and 59 minutes on duty (in any position where
there
was one trick and no relief) and anything more would result in a
Federal
hours of service violation.

The crew signed up at 6:30 AM and we left Thurlow at 7:00 AM and
we had
several loads of manure in the consist that had to be set out at
Oxford. Fortunately, it was a nice cold, sunny day. We finally
made it
back to Thurlow at about 8 PM that evening. The first thing that
came
to my mind when I saw those loaded cars in the train was train
dispatcher Henry Welsh's story of riding the cupola of the cabin
car on
a hot day in the summer when he was qualifying as a dispatcher.
He said
that the cabin was right behind 8 cars loaded with manure and you
haven't lived until you were trying to eat your lunch while riding
behind them. Thank goodness for the cold weather and the fact
that they
were placed up in the body of the train.

The cars came up from Potomac Yard on TP-2 and set off at Thurlow
North
Yard for the MD-47 to take south the next day. The manure was
mixed
with straw which came from the racing stables and horse farms in
the
south. Once set off on the local public delivery tracks and
unloaded,
the manure was taken to the mushroom farms by truck in the
Avondale,
Kelton, Kennett Square, Toughkenamon and Oxford Pa. areas where
it was
"cooked" before being spread on the beds in the mushroom houses.
They
used steam to kill off any organisms that were contained in the
manure.
MD-48 would return the empties to Thurlow to be sent south to be
reloaded. These cars had been moving to and from the Branch for
many,
many years prior to my ride that Christmas morning.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
PH: (302) 738-4292
E-Mail: tmolsen@...
"Bruce F. Smith" wrote:

Doug asks...

To shift from our "discussion" of cement, I want to throw out
another
"rural legend". I have heard a story about meat packing plants
shipping
offal(?) (packing plant remains) from one plant to another in
open gons.
The story speaks of an Armour Plant in Kansas City shipping to
the
Decker's Plant (Armour) in Mason City, Ia. According to the
story, low
sided gons where used. But no further information. I believe
this took
place in the 40's or 50's.

Does anyone know about such shipments? And what kind of
cars/gons were
used. The Decker's plant was served by the M&StL. More
important what
models would work for the late 40's, and what would one use to
duplicate
the load?
On the Octararo branch of the PRR, there were a great number of
mushroom
houses (as Kennett Square PA is the self proclaimed "Mushroom
Capitol of
the World"). Now, the raw material for growing mushroom is
composted horse
manure, and a significant pool of this raw material existed in
the race
tracks and horse farms of the mid-atlantic region. On a
regular basis, the
PRR hauled gons of horse manure. These were GR or GRA
composite gons, that
by that time were nearing the ends of their lives. The gons
were
restricted from any other cargo. The cargo was finally
embargoed by the
PRR after the local fire departments refused to come out and
extinguish any
more burning gons, ignited by the heat of decomposing manure!
Obviously,
train placement of these cars was critical as they needed to be
as far from
either the loco or the cabin as possible...

As for offal, the gon might need to be "tight" as there is a
lot of liquid
(or they may not have cared if it leaked all over the place),
the car would
certainly be one in its final years of use, and it would likely
be in
captive service. If you need pictures of fresh offal, I can
always wander
down to the necropsy room, shoot a few and post them to the
files section,
or you can find several in a Google Images search <VBG>. To
model offal
you would need a thin walled tubing of a faily small diameter.
Bovine
intestine is up to ~2" diameter, and the color is anywhere from
a whitish
to purple, depending on circumstance. If the entire "pluck" is
to be
included, you might consider modeling clay for lungs (again
whitish), liver
(liver colored <G>) and heart (reddish to purple). You could
even make a
master and repetitively cast these parts in resin! Modeling
such a load
would definitely be a challenge...might I suggest a tarp
covered gon?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -
Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___
____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __
__ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |
||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|__________________________________
__|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-
0 0-0-0


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Along the route of MD47/MD48 on the Chester Creek Branch was
American Rendering Co., which some summers could be smelled from
Ridley Park. I imagine offal might have come from the
Philadelphia Abattoir Co. on the Washington Ave. Branch. I have
never seen any first-hand accounts of shipments of this other
fragant commodity, though.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -
Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___
____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __
__ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |
||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|__________________________________
__|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0
0-0-0


Re: Atlas Type 105 tank cars

Louis C. Whiteley <octoraro1@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> wrote:


Thanks a lot Ed! That's why I always ask -- no matter how
conscientious the vendor they always seem to screw it up!

From Ed Kaminski's ACF book, there are pictures of 11,000
gallon cars that appear to closely match the model (which,
according to another poster, has 6 jacket sheets)

page 101 11,000 gal UTLX 96266 built 1948
page 104 10,992 gal SHPX 1068 (Shell Chemical) built 1948
page 108 11,000 gal WRNX 2275 (Warren) built 1950

Cars that appear to have 5 sheets:

page 110 11,036 gal SHPX 1367 (Pyrofax) built 1952*
page 112 11,000 gal SHPX 3722 (Wyandotte) built 1952
page 113 11,043 gal GOPX 201 (Gas-Oil Products) built 1952
page 116 11,049 gal RTCX 5353 (Spencer) built 1953
page 126 11,026 gal SHPX 2083 (Airco) built 1959

* This is one of the Atlas models

Other than the Warren and Pyrofax cars, I don't have any info
on the other cars like California Dispatch, Fuelane, Gulf, etc.

How different in size and appearance are ACF Type 105 cars in the
general range of 10,5xx to 11,0xx gallons? There are quite a few
more photos showing cars in the 10,5xx to 10,6xxx range. Knowing
Atlas (and almost any other vendors for that matter) a difference
of a few percent in size is going to get glossed over.




Ed Hawkins wrote

All of the tank cars listed in the listing (ranging with build
dates from
8-47 through 11-54) can only be correct if Atlas chose to produce
variations
as found on the ACF prototype tank cars. The design of ACF's
11,000 gallon
ICC-105A tank car changed during the early part of 1951 to mid-
1952 whereby
the number of jacket sheets changed from 6 to 5. Generally, cars
with the
89-1/4" inside diameter tank built from about March 1947 (lot
3080 & 3083 are
earliest I can document) through early 1951 (with some built as
late as 1952)
had 6 pieces of sheet metal welded together to form the jacket.
Most of the
ACF-design cars built from mid-1952 through 1954 came with 5
panels.

Brake arrangements can be modified with relative ease so long as
the brake
system isn't molded on as part of the underframe like the
InterMountain Type
27 ICC-103 tank cars. It is hoped that the Atlas brake
arrangement will be
similar to the Life-Like Type 21 cars.
Amen to that sentiment, Brother Ed!

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts
I'm interested in earlier GOPX tank cars, which I believer were in
series 90-94;95-99; 100-101; 102-103; and 104-106. I have seen
references to them as either all silve or orange with a black band
(ala Hooker?).

The references were to AC&F builders photos. Where can I purchase
copies of these photos?

Did all have dome platforms or not? Any lead as to lettering
style? The earlier cars had home points of Oxford, PA (which I
model) and Miami. Did the lettering include these points?

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ


Re: Pickle Cars

walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
 

Rich: I have some old style tank car photo's well share but need your Emal address.. WJK Cathyk@frontiernet.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Yoder
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Pickle Cars


I wonder where some of the cheap wines came from.
Maybe it was the dregs off the bottom of tank cars.

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pickle Cars

Russ Strodtz wrote:
> In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
> NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
> California.

Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
California wine for blending and/or repackaging.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Pickle Cars

Rich Yoder
 

I wonder where some of the cheap wines came from.
Maybe it was the dregs off the bottom of tank cars.

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pickle Cars

Russ Strodtz wrote:
In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
California.
Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
California wine for blending and/or repackaging.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Bulk Wine Shipments

walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
 

There was a Wine bottling works in Northeastern Pa. In a small town of Jermyn Pa called Rhiningers I believe thats the spelling they always received tank cars full of wine on the D&H RR.in the 50's and 60's some were cars with several domes... It was wine ..not grape juice..WJK

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments


On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

> Russ Strodtz wrote:
>> In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
>> NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
>> California.
>
> Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
> California wine for blending and/or repackaging.

Tony is correct. The growing season was generally too short in upstate
New York to bring the residual sugar in the wine grapes up to
acceptable levels, so the wineries there routinely imported bulk wine
from California which, blended with the local product, rendered it
drinkable, if not especially desirable. And what was delivered to them
in tank cars was definitely wine, not grape juice. Most of it did not
come from the Napa Valley or other premium wine areas north of San
Francisco, however, but from producers in the
Lodi-Modesto-Merced-Madera region of California's central valley, whose
wines were typically less costly, though of lower quality. (That's not
so true today, however; central valley growers, aided by the U. of
Calif. ag school at Davis, are now producing some excellent wines in
several varieties, as well as continuing to supply generous quantities
of what the Brits call "plonk." But I digress.)

In the 1960s, on a trip through the Finger Lakes region of New York
State, I happened to notice a wine tank car set out at the Taylor
winery in Canandaigua (probably the winery Russ refers to). A close
look at the route cards confirmed that the shipment had originated in
Salinas, CA; by that time, Taylor's use of Calif. wine had reached the
point where they had purchased their own vineyards and winery there.

I hasten to add, before I get a grumpy e-mail on the subject, that New
York native Jeff English assures me some of the smaller New York State
wineries make excellent stuff, though I haven't had the opportunity to
confirm this for myself. All I can say is that the New York wine I've
tried has, from the viewpoint of a West Coast wine fancier, been
undistinguished (and might have been worse had it not been blended with
wine imported from the left coast).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bulk Wine Shipments

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Russ Strodtz wrote:
In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
California.
Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
Tony is correct. The growing season was generally too short in upstate New York to bring the residual sugar in the wine grapes up to acceptable levels, so the wineries there routinely imported bulk wine from California which, blended with the local product, rendered it drinkable, if not especially desirable. And what was delivered to them in tank cars was definitely wine, not grape juice. Most of it did not come from the Napa Valley or other premium wine areas north of San Francisco, however, but from producers in the Lodi-Modesto-Merced-Madera region of California's central valley, whose wines were typically less costly, though of lower quality. (That's not so true today, however; central valley growers, aided by the U. of Calif. ag school at Davis, are now producing some excellent wines in several varieties, as well as continuing to supply generous quantities of what the Brits call "plonk." But I digress.)

In the 1960s, on a trip through the Finger Lakes region of New York State, I happened to notice a wine tank car set out at the Taylor winery in Canandaigua (probably the winery Russ refers to). A close look at the route cards confirmed that the shipment had originated in Salinas, CA; by that time, Taylor's use of Calif. wine had reached the point where they had purchased their own vineyards and winery there.

I hasten to add, before I get a grumpy e-mail on the subject, that New York native Jeff English assures me some of the smaller New York State wineries make excellent stuff, though I haven't had the opportunity to confirm this for myself. All I can say is that the New York wine I've tried has, from the viewpoint of a West Coast wine fancier, been undistinguished (and might have been worse had it not been blended with wine imported from the left coast).

Richard Hendrickson


Coupler saga ends

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

You may remember a thread basically dealing with the virtues of the
scale Accumate coupler. I had put a pair on a model I had built because
the model was designed for them and I hadn't taken the time to modify
the car for something else. Well, I was running a train last night and
had a derailment. When I investigated I found one of the Accumate
couplers had somehow pulled out of its pocket and half was hung up in
the cut lever and the other half had derailed the next car. I took the
car to my work desk and cut off the coupler pockets. This is how I
found out the 'pocket pin' had broken allowing the coupler to be pulled
out of the pocket. I've installed Kadee offset shank couplers and the
car is back in operation. I do believe if you use care when installing
Accumates and are more careful if your rolling stock than I, they would
work okay.
The End
Clark Propst


Re: Pickle Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Russ Strodtz wrote:
In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in California.
Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased California wine for blending and/or repackaging.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: House car for groceries?

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Tony:



You are correct it is the origin roads responsibility to supply all cars.
Now for example the origin road was X in a major city and the plant was
located within the recripical switching limits. The load in question was to
be routed X railroad that major city to Y railroad to destination and
spotting. In this example the origin road would get switching charges or a
minimal division and the delivering carrier would get the lyon's share of
the revenuer. Now why would the origin carrier want to supply one of his
cars? They didn't and that where assigned cars pools came from. The guys
that got the money for hauling the freight.



Paul



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:24 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?



Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
The way that pools worked, both for autos and for other traffic, was
that the origin road estimated the total number of cars needed in the
pool based on shipper traffic projections. For auto parts traffic
this was revised at the beginning of each model year. The origin road
estimated the division of revenues to the roads to participate in the
pool and used that to determing the number of cars that each road
should contribute.
The written agreements I saw were with the roads in each pool.
They agreed with each other how many cars of which type(s) to provide.

There were no contracts because contracts other than that which was
part of the bill of lading were illegal. All traffic moved at
published tariff rates and origin railroads were obligated to provide
a car supply.
This may well be true. But the inter-road agreements, and
agreement with the automakers for specific parts pools, were certainly
written. To what extent those were not "contracts," I guess we would
have to consult an attorney.
As for the "obligation" to supply cars, I am of course aware of
common carrier obligations. But there were roads which did NOT supply
their share of cars for particular pool. Some of the SP correspondence
complained about the Burlington being unwilling to do its share of car
supply in a couple of pools. I think it was only the originating road
which was obligated for cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: House car for groceries?

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Malcolm:



I have never indicated that these agreements were a legally enforceable
contract; again you're in the theory world I was in the real world. Do you
recognize that the shipper or receiver could and did change the routing on
the traffic and to insure that the Southern Pacific got the maximum in the
division it was controlled by assigned cars?



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolm Laughlin
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?



Posted by: "Paul" buygone@earthlink. <mailto:buygone%40earthlink.net> net
buygonet Fri Nov 3, 2006 9:37 am (PST) I would have to agree with Tony,
having worked in the Southern Pacific
Traffic Department for 10 years in the Greater Los Angeles area. We had
many agreements with shippers and receivers that we provided assigned cars
=====================

These were agreements, but they were not legally enforcable contracts.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: House car for groceries?

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Malcolm:



Let's take General Motors for an example. Are you going to tell me that if
the Traffic department of GM in Detroit called the local Division
Superintend and asked that the Southern Pacific assigned cars that were in a
given yard be spotted that he would not have done that? I doubt it. When
GM spoke the railroad listened. If not they would change the routing out of
a given plant or plants to short haul the carrier that did not cooperate?
You may not have seen it happen by I sure have.



Your talking theory, I'm talking real world.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolm Laughlin
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:58 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?



Posted by: "Anthony Thompson" Russ Strodtz wrote:
I have no knowledge of any present or past AAR, ICC, or tariff rule or
agreement that could compel anyone to send a car to any particular
place based on "Return To" stenciling applied to the car.
The agreements I have seen were between the SP and the
automakers, signed by both parties, agreeing to provide certain numbers
of cars, both XAP (specially equipped) and XM, for parts pools. I do
not believe these agreements were ignored.
--------------------

They were observed more on some railroads than others, but they were not a
legally enforcable agreement. Only the operating department could actually
provide the cars, and the extent to which they kowtowed to the traffic
department depended on the railroad. The SP couldn't force and of the other
railroads to privide the number of cars that they estimated were needed.
These traffic department promises were one of the significant causes of bad
car utilization in the late 50's because they woudl often have too much of a
safety reserve. On NYc in the 60's we mad major improvements in car
utilization by carefully calculating the number of cars needed and not aking
the sales department's numbers. Part iof my job in 1965 was analyzing the
schedules and traffic to determine the number of cars actually needed.

===================================

I do believe that the stenciling was a backup for waybill and
other methods of car direction. And I continue to state that the
stenciling was most certainly NOT cosmetic.
---------------------------------

Absolutely right.
===========================

SP yardmen have stated that they did observe and (mostly) follow them, such
as the empty lumber box cars on the SP, marked "return to Eugene" for
reloading. Such cars would be set onto the makeup track for the next "XMUG"
train (empties
to Eugene).
---------------------------------

That's something that I overlooked in my earlier comments. This practice
faded out in the 60's and 70's as more accurate data came into the computer
systems, but before the early 60's it was the best way to control area
fleets.
==============================

In 40 years of Operating experience I have never sent a car to any
particular place based on stenciling. In addition, have never moved an
empty car on a waybill if that waybill did not correspond with any car
service rule or instructions from my Management.
This is confusing. We know from many people in the late steam
era that car service rules were routinely ignored in yard work; indeed,
several employees have testified that they had no particular knowledge
of such rules and were not interested in following them in providing
empties, etc.
---------------------------

We don't know this, we just have a lot of annecdotes. Railroads generally
tried to observe car service rules, ICC, AAR and our own inspectors checked
on the observance. There were a multitude of exceptions, and it's quite
possible that some yards never observed them. The rules were often followed
when it was not excessively costly to do so. In 1963 I worked on a car
service routing guide that was actually used in yard offices. The evidence
of some individual employees not following them is not eveidence of this
being an industry practice.
========================================

But I guess that could correspond to "management" if you
include the switching foreman.
-------------------------------

Switching foreman were not management. There were agreement employees. The
lowest management level was general yardmaster (on some railroads) or
trainmaster.
=======================

Are you saying that empty cars always had waybills? or
just stating what was done if they did have waybills?
----------------------------------------

The only cars moving empty on waybills in the 50's were the special
equipment that was covered by CSD 150 , CSD 435 and other such directives.
For those cars emptuy bill were mandatory. General service cars didn't even
have destinations. It was the revolution when on the NYC in the mid-60's we
started requiring the movement reporting of empty general service cars to
include a destination.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

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