The brake hose hanger included with some Sunshine kits is a
different style than the Kadee type. Looked at from the side,
the Sunshine hanger looks like a hollow triangle extending
about a foot beyond the end sill. I'd like to see this part
available in a break-resistant material. It would be another
step forward in accuracy for us rivet counters.

Jim Hayes

Second vote for these. In brass, please.

SGL

I have been challenged on the nutrient value of
pickles in my previous pickle car post.

My source is "Early Settlers of the Dakotas" on the
web and the nutrients cited are acetic acid and lactic
acid. I have verified that pickles do indeed contain
these acids (www.fao.org/docrep/V5030E/V5030E0d.htm).


I am not about to buy a bottle of pickles, but I do
think it's interesting that the federal government was
so focussed on soldiers' nutrition in World War II
that it took the seemingly bizarre step of buying part
of a pickle company. Whether this was a good decision
in view of our present understanding of nutrition
seems far afield from steam era freight cars.

Harry Meislahn

Clark Propst wrote:

spend my money on the hobby not food. The clinics were only on once,
so you were forced to choose between them. Was a real good time, we
have our plane tickets for the upcoming meet. Rated #2, but very
close to #1 needs more venders and clinics held twice.

<<<<

Hmm... I have been to Cocoa Beach every year since it started, and I've

given a clinic each time, and each time I have done that clinic twice.
Actually the one I did in 2002 I may have done only once, but I know the
last three for sure I did twice. I'm sure there are clinics more popular
than mine, which were also given twice.

Naperville is the Daddy meet. This year there was a half hour between
presentations and a much larger sales room. Big pluses. Again the
meet is in a hotel so you have to leave for food. There are several
places to eat close by. Many folks take advantage of what the large
city has to offer modelers by visiting hobby shops and local layouts
and Polish buffets. This show is always a good time. Rated #1

<<<<

The last 2 years the dealers have all been in the large ballroom on

Saturday. This is ok by itself, but it winds up splitting the activity
between the model display room and the dealer room, which feels like about
a 1/4 mile walk. Ok, it's not, but they aren't exactly adjacent. The
model room just seemed to wither on Saturday... in the old days where the
dealers were around in separate rooms, and open all the time (Fri and Sat),
people were perhaps more spread out in general, but it seemed more
balanced. The big one-day dealer room makes it feel like two separate events.

Andy

My third and final try to send this post from a week ago. For some reason
my mail client converted it to mime. First time Eudora has done than in 9
years..

Andy

Into the early 70's, Madiera Wines in Baltimore received uncut wine in
8,000/10,000 gal. tanks from California. Madiera simply cut and
bottled the stuff for sale locally. The train crews would sometimes
spot the car on a chock at one end, so when the car was emptied, about
50 gallons was left in the "empty" for retrieval up in the yard
later. M.J. Buckelew [hoghead32]

Russ Strodtz wrote:

In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at

Canandaigua

NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
California.

Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries"

purchased

California wine for blending and/or repackaging.

On Nov 18, 2006, at 2:48 PM, stefanelaine wrote:

I picked up some of those "ACF built" center belt rail meat reefers
for cheap that were done wrong for ARM by IM, in their anything goes
schemes(Yes, I've got the good ART kits from Jerry as well).

Any ideas on close prototypes for the IM "reject" cars?
I've found pics of the follwing that look close:

URTX 60067 Spencer Packing - needs 3/3 ends but looks to be close, not
sure about roof
URTX 60487 Needham Packing (60400-524 series?) - ends?, roof?
URTX 67315 Des Moines Packers - ends/roof
URTX 65074 Bookey packing - ends/roof

Stephan,
Reefers with 4-panels sides having horizontal riveted seams and
square-corner 4/4 Dreadnaught Steel Ends were unique to ART. The URTX
cars either have the wrong ends (various Improved Dreadnaught
arrangements with round corners), wrong roof, wrong underframe (some
were Duryea), or a combination.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Folks,
I picked up some of those "ACF built" center belt rail meat reefers
for cheap that were done wrong for ARM by IM, in their anything goes
schemes(Yes, I've got the good ART kits from Jerry as well).

Any ideas on close prototypes for the IM "reject" cars?
I've found pics of the follwing that look close:

URTX 60067 Spencer Packing - needs 3/3 ends but looks to be close, not
sure about roof
URTX 60487 Needham Packing (60400-524 series?) - ends?, roof?
URTX 67315 Des Moines Packers - ends/roof
URTX 65074 Bookey packing - ends/roof

IM actually has the Needham schemeavailable(doh!),but I'm not sure if
any of these are workable for mid 1950s. I've got the RI leased URTX
versions and the PCX "Hormel" versions, but these cars are obviously
wrong as far as I can see (the Wathers GA car is closer)

Any thoughts?
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC

Just over a year ago, I asked this group for information concerning
the Barrett hopper cars. Use the search engine on this site to review
that discussion.

I have posted a color photo of this Barrett hopper in the Photo File
section under "hoghead32". The photo was taken by Robert D. Hess in
April, 1960. Taken at Delta, Pa., it no doubt is hauling slate
granules from the Funkhouser Quarry [GAF] at nearby Slate Hill, Pa.

Thanks, Bob, for sharing your photo with us.

Mike Buckelew [hoghead32]

I have as yet not managed to dredge up a photocopy of the 1961 GATX Tank Car Manual. But working from a photocopy of the 1966 version, I wonder how many of the drawings are suitable to STMFC's era - i.e. when were these built?

Is it possible to date these drawings (or - more important - the date of the cars built to them?):
p.88 - ICC 103-W 10000 gallons non-insulated
p.89 - ICC 103-W 10000 gallons insulated
p.91 - ICC 103A-W 7000 gallons non-insulated
p.9? - ICC 103A-N-W 8000 gallons non-insulated
p.94 - ICC 103AL-W 10000 gallons insulated
p.96 - ICC 103A-AL-W 10000 gallons non-insulated
p.98 - ICC 103B-W 8000 gallons non-insulated
p.100 - ICC 103C-W 8000 gallons non-insulated
p.102 - ICC 103D-W 8000 gallons 2 compartments non-insulated
p.104 - ICC 103E-W 8000 gallons insulated
p.105 - ICC 105A300-W 11000 gallons insulated
p.106 - ICC 105A300-W 55 ton chlorine built to ICC 105A500-W insulated
p.110 - ICC 105A600-W 12600 gallons for Anhydrous Hydrogen chloride insulated
p.111 - ICC 105A200AL-W 10200 gallons insulated

I am quite sure these are completely useless to me for 1946, but wonder about their usefulness for friends modelling 1952 and 1953.

Thanks to any who can help out on this,

Rob Kirkham

The brake hose hanger included with some Sunshine kits is a different style
than the Kadee type. Looked at from the side, the Sunshine hanger looks like
a hollow triangle extending about a foot beyond the end sill. I'd like to
see this part available in a break-resistant material. It would be another
step forward in accuracy for us rivet counters.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon

This is a timely subject that has my attention as we speak.

To my knowledge, only two suppliers produce brake hoses *with hangers*: Kadee and Bowser (Cal-Scale). The latter can be purchased in either plastic or brass, and is apparently a new reissued item in their catalogue. I have not yet seen them.

PSC produces brake hoses, but no hangers that I can find. No supplier packages hangers for separate sale.

I have used the Kadees with their fine hangers for some years.

More and more modelers are removing (or not installing) the magnetic glad hands on their couplers. This alone makes the easily-perceived see-through 'space' below the couplers quite empty, a visual defect that has in turn motivated wholesale brake hose installation among many of us who have been otherwise in the past not been overly inclined to do so. The resulting effect is great.

However (however...), in the ordinary handling of these cars in routine careful operations, these plastic hoses simply do not stand up, and I am constantly finding them broken scattered along the right of way (just like the prototype :-)). Frustration can arise pretty fast because the hoses break off, leaving a stub in the hanger- which of course is then no longer usable. I have currently suspended repairs on these cars, and I currently have far too many fine cars with broken-off brake hose stubs.

The ideal would be brass or at least Delrin hoses, with either plastic or brass hangers . The Kadee mounts are pretty fine (as mentioned). The Cal Scale mounts are as yet unknown (to me), although a respected colleague has opined that 'if these were the mounts originally produced by Cal Scale [or Bowser] some years ago, they at that time did not look very good'.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

Clark Propst wrote --

"Doug Harding has made a couple of convincing gon loads. They were
featured in his packinghouse presentation."


Yes, and Doug may dive in here. But in a post-presentation conversation, Doug mentioned that the "blood and guts" gondola load was painted using paint colors from the "Military Minature" shelf. Yes, they do assume that a modeler would want to replicate wounds correctly. So, there's a source for the correct paint colors.

Doug's consultant was the military-modeling son of a well-known California railroad modeler whom I will not identify here, for his own security.

Peter Weiglin
Amelia, OH

Hi:

Has anyone ever compared the accuracy of the Con-Cor Produce/Watermelon car against a prototype ACL ventilated boxcar in the 17000 - 18999 series?

Thanks,
KL

Denny,
For years I have been using the remains of the wire from micro bulbs,
it's real "rubber" and flexible. You can even attach the glad hands of your
choice. Works great for mu hoses also. In O scale I go to a larger wire.
Good Luck,
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division

I have a few items posted on Ebay ending in a couple days
http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5

I'll list more items on Sunday, including about a dozen Fine Scale Miniatures structure kits a friend asked me to sell for him.


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@...

Hi,

The Squire Dingee Company had a pickle packing plant
on the C&NW next to the Clybourne station in Chicago.
I remember it from the 1940's and '50's. The 4-vat
cars had hatches on each side of the roof walk, and
C&NW commuters like my dad used to see employees on
top of the cars (which were lettered for Squire
Dingee's Ma Brown brand) fishing the pickles out with
nets on poles. I believe the pickle cars may have
lasted well into the 1950's. Ma Brown pickles, packed
in glass jars, were a familiar item on the shelves of
local grocery stores.

A-C Models offered an HO Ma Brown pickle car during
this time period.

My dad used to talk about the pickle cars as a prime
example of inefficiency. Unloading was undoubtedly
slow, and the cars seemed part of a bygone era when
unskilled labor was cheap.

From an article in Model Railroader years later, I
guessed that the loads may have originated in
Wisconsin, which remains a major growing area for
vegetables. At least at that time, cucumbers were a
significant crop in Wisconsin. With C&NW's many lines
in Wisconsin, the move would probably have been local
to the C&NW.

However, a web search revealed that the Squire Dingee
Company had a pickle operation in South Dakota near
Belle Fourche beginning in 1856. According to a
South Dakota history, pickles were shipped from there
to the packing plant in Chicago. I don't know if they
also came from Wisconsin. A curious detail was that
the U.S. government apparently owned 25% of the
company during World War II because of a pressing need
for pickles as a source of nutrients for soldiers.

I looked up the Ma Brown pickle cars in my October
1954 Official Railway Equipment Register. The
reporting marks were S.D.X. and the car numbers were
103 and 116-224. The owner was the Squire Dingee
Company of 1918 Elston Avenue in Chicago, and those 10
cars were their total roster. The AAR designation was
TW and capacity was 100,000 pounds.

The posting had been dated April 1949, more than five
years previously.

For the true trivia buff, it's likely the Ma Brown
brand name reflected the fact that the company was
owned by a family named Brown. One of their number, a
Squire Dingee vice president, showed up in the 1896
Benton Harbor, MI, phone directory. As I recall from
the 1940's, the president of the company was a Mr.
Brown, who lived in Wilmette, IL.

Harry Meislahn
976 Pine Street
Winnetka, IL 60093

Malcolm



I guess the first thing to do is that we need to agree to disagree. It
appears that your experience with the Central was different than mine with
the SP. You have not stated just what your position was with your company.
I was both a Traffic Officer and an Operating Officer but not at the same
time. Now that having been covered let me once again begin as to how we did
it.



Our VP of Traffic would meet with the head of transportation for General
Motors either in SF or Detroit. This was done annually just before shut
down for the following model year. They would discuss just what traffic we
were to handle and from which junction we would get it and from which
carrier we would receive it. Obviously we wanted to get it at E. St. Louis
which would get us the greatest division of revenue. At E. St. Louis we
ran on a seven day a week schedule a train we referred to as the APW (Auto
Parts West) which was a dedicated train just for the auto parts going to
South Gate CA, Ramer CA (Van Nuys) and Warm Springs CA. This train was
destination blocked (all of the cars for each plant in one group) so that no
switching was required in route, other than El Paso where RI junction cars
could be added if tonnage allowed. The APW ran at the same speeds as the
BSM.



Now getting back to the assigned cars. Each movement was scheduled so that
the parts would arrive at the plant the day needed to put into production.
Now if it took 50 cars for this movement from loading, transit, unloading,
return to origin and spot for re-loading. General Motors would get with all
carriers in this route and as a group we would agree as to how many cars
each would put into this movement. Than being said can you now tell me that
the Central would refuse to accept the cars from the Southern Pacific for
this movement? Especially since they would spend most of their time off
line and the Southern Pacific would be getting the lion's share of the
revenue, and they would not handle these empties just as expediously as the
loaded cars.



Back in the mid 1960's while on a visit to BOP South Gate, Vic Briscoe the
Traffic Manager indicated to me that if the Southern Pacific would have
arbitrarily added one day to the transit time of auto part just to his South
Gate plant, GM would need an additional $8,000,000.00 in capital just for
the parts inventory that additional day cost them. We did not fool around
with GM and I'm willing to bet nether did the Central.



Now on the other hand the Southern Pacific did not try to assign cars to off
line industries that only shipped one or two cars per week. That is not
what Tony was referring to nor was I. Just the biggies. Can we now agree?



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Malcolm Laughlin
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 9:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?



Posted by: "Paul" Malcolm:
I have never indicated that these agreements were a legally enforceable
contract; again you're in the theory world I was in the real world.
==========================

I have to respond because I've seen this comment a few times and it's just
plain wrong. I'm talking from real world experience, not theory. I was a
participant in the process in the offices at NYC where the decisions were
made as to how many cars to assign to each pool in which we participating
and how many to accept from other carriers.

One of the very costly practices that we managed to stop was that of other
railroads sending cars for assignment on our line just because the shipper
had convinced a railroad salesman that they were necessary. We also worked
hard on limiting the number of cars in each pool to the number actually
needed, which was usually less than the salesmen would have assigned. There
were other railroads, notably SP, which just caved in the the shippers
because they didn't have the staff to carefully analyze the assignments and
be sure that they were profitable.

What I am saying here includes GM, Ford, etc. and did not lose us any
desirable traffic because we could, in contrast to most railroads of that
era (50's and 60's) show the shippers that we knew what we were doing.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

List,

Elden did such a great job on this car that retirees said they could "smell" it; and several had to step out for air, as it was so realistic. PRRT&HS meet attendee.

Fred Freitas

"Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:
All;

I modeled and presented an offal gon, based on extensive notes on the subject
from Al Buchan and others, using an F&C PRR GS, in an early issue of TKM. I
will try to dig that info and photos up.

Elden Gatwood

________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Louis
C. Whiteley
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondola's

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce F.
Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tom,

Thanks for the great clarification!

Bruce

In regard to Bruce's tale of the car loads of horse manure on the
Octoraro Branch, he is correct in his description of how the

stuff was

transported, although hopper cars were also used.

When I was qualifying as a block operator to work at Lamokin

Tower on

the Pennsy Main Line Philadelphia to Landover, I rode MD-47/MD-48

from

Thurlow Yard at Trainer, Pa. to Oxford, Pa. on Christmas Day

1965. It

was the only time that I ever had the opportunity to ride the

Chester

Creek Secondary Track and the Octoraro Branch. I had to make the

trip

on my own time as the assignment clerk did not want to pay to send
anyone out riding freight trains. Legally, I could not have done

it "on

the clock" as this was almost always a 12 to 16 hour trip coming

and

going depending on how much switching had to be done. Operators

were

limited to 12 Hrs and 59 minutes on duty (in any position where

there

was one trick and no relief) and anything more would result in a

Federal

hours of service violation.

The crew signed up at 6:30 AM and we left Thurlow at 7:00 AM and

we had

several loads of manure in the consist that had to be set out at
Oxford. Fortunately, it was a nice cold, sunny day. We finally

made it

back to Thurlow at about 8 PM that evening. The first thing that

came

to my mind when I saw those loaded cars in the train was train
dispatcher Henry Welsh's story of riding the cupola of the cabin

car on

a hot day in the summer when he was qualifying as a dispatcher.

He said

that the cabin was right behind 8 cars loaded with manure and you
haven't lived until you were trying to eat your lunch while riding
behind them. Thank goodness for the cold weather and the fact

that they

were placed up in the body of the train.

The cars came up from Potomac Yard on TP-2 and set off at Thurlow

North

Yard for the MD-47 to take south the next day. The manure was

mixed

with straw which came from the racing stables and horse farms in

the

south. Once set off on the local public delivery tracks and

unloaded,

the manure was taken to the mushroom farms by truck in the

Avondale,

Kelton, Kennett Square, Toughkenamon and Oxford Pa. areas where

it was

"cooked" before being spread on the beds in the mushroom houses.

They

used steam to kill off any organisms that were contained in the

manure.

MD-48 would return the empties to Thurlow to be sent south to be
reloaded. These cars had been moving to and from the Branch for

many,

many years prior to my ride that Christmas morning.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
PH: (302) 738-4292
E-Mail: tmolsen@...
"Bruce F. Smith" wrote:

Doug asks...

To shift from our "discussion" of cement, I want to throw out

another

"rural legend". I have heard a story about meat packing plants

shipping

offal(?) (packing plant remains) from one plant to another in

open gons.

The story speaks of an Armour Plant in Kansas City shipping to

the

Decker's Plant (Armour) in Mason City, Ia. According to the

story, low

sided gons where used. But no further information. I believe

this took

place in the 40's or 50's.

Does anyone know about such shipments? And what kind of

cars/gons were

used. The Decker's plant was served by the M&StL. More

important what

models would work for the late 40's, and what would one use to

duplicate

the load?

On the Octararo branch of the PRR, there were a great number of

mushroom

houses (as Kennett Square PA is the self proclaimed "Mushroom

Capitol of

the World"). Now, the raw material for growing mushroom is

composted horse

manure, and a significant pool of this raw material existed in

the race

tracks and horse farms of the mid-atlantic region. On a

regular basis, the

PRR hauled gons of horse manure. These were GR or GRA

composite gons, that

by that time were nearing the ends of their lives. The gons

were

restricted from any other cargo. The cargo was finally

embargoed by the

PRR after the local fire departments refused to come out and

extinguish any

more burning gons, ignited by the heat of decomposing manure!

Obviously,

train placement of these cars was critical as they needed to be

as far from

either the loco or the cabin as possible...

As for offal, the gon might need to be "tight" as there is a

lot of liquid

(or they may not have cared if it leaked all over the place),

the car would

certainly be one in its final years of use, and it would likely

be in

captive service. If you need pictures of fresh offal, I can

always wander

down to the necropsy room, shoot a few and post them to the

files section,

or you can find several in a Google Images search <VBG>. To

model offal

you would need a thin walled tubing of a faily small diameter.

Bovine

intestine is up to ~2" diameter, and the color is anywhere from

a whitish

to purple, depending on circumstance. If the entire "pluck" is

to be

included, you might consider modeling clay for lungs (again

whitish), liver

(liver colored <G>) and heart (reddish to purple). You could

even make a

master and repetitively cast these parts in resin! Modeling

such a load

would definitely be a challenge...might I suggest a tarp

covered gon?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -

Benjamin

Franklin
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Along the route of MD47/MD48 on the Chester Creek Branch was
American Rendering Co., which some summers could be smelled from
Ridley Park. I imagine offal might have come from the
Philadelphia Abattoir Co. on the Washington Ave. Branch. I have
never seen any first-hand accounts of shipments of this other
fragant commodity, though.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

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Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>

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Benjamin Franklin

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On Nov 17, 2006, at 5:30 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

Inside tank diameter was 89-1/4" plus 8" insulation between the jacket
and tank.
Underframe length was 38'-5 1/8" over end sills.

I didn't say this right. The insulation blanket was 4" thick, resulting
in an increase of 8" in outside jacket diameter.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

On Nov 16, 2006, at 9:05 PM, Louis C. Whiteley wrote:

I'm interested in earlier GOPX tank cars, which I believer were in
series 90-94;95-99; 100-101; 102-103; and 104-106. I have seen
references to them as either all silve or orange with a black band
(ala Hooker?).

The references were to AC&F builders photos. Where can I purchase
copies of these photos?

Did all have dome platforms or not? Any lead as to lettering
style? The earlier cars had home points of Oxford, PA (which I
model) and Miami. Did the lettering include these points?

Lou Whiteley

Lou,
The GOPX 90-99 series cars were built 9-47 (lot 3152) and had 6-section
jackets. They had Apex running boards and dome platforms (simple
platforms on the sides). The top of the casing except dome was painted
Dupont Orange. Dome was painted white. Bottom of casing, underframe,
trucks, ladders, and hand rails were painted black. Black stencils over
orange and white stencils over black, except that "GAS OIL PRODUCTS,
INC." and "NATUROL GAS" black stencils were outlined in white. This
car more or less matches the Atlas model, with exceptions as previously
noted on the STMFC (such as the Atlas model has wood running boards and
a number of other aberrations). Nearly identical cars were built as
GOPX 201-202 in 5-52 (lot 3728), except that lot 3152 had all three AB
brake components on the same side of the center sill and lot 3728 had
the reservoir on the other side of the center sill. Inside tank
diameter was 89-1/4" plus 8" insulation between the jacket and tank.
Underframe length was 38'-5 1/8" over end sills.

The GOPX 100-103 series cars were built 12-43 (lot 2631) and 104-105
were built 9-44 (lot 2696). These cars were built to an earlier Type 27
design, 85" ID tank (does not count the extra 8" added to the jacket
diameter for the 4" insulation blanket), underframe length 42'-2 1/8"
over the end sills (nearly 4' longer than the cars built in 1947 and
1952). Wood running boards and dome platforms. Similar painting as lot
3152 except domes were orange. Due to the increased length these cars
had jackets made of 7 sections. There were some variations in the
lettering between lot 2631 and 2696, including the sizes of some
stencils and placement.

The builder's photo of GOPX 103 has "Miami, Florida" stencils. GOPX 100
and 104 have "Oxford, Pennsylvania" stencils. Builder's photos for all
these cars are at the St. Louis Mercantile Library. I suspect that half
of the cars in each lot were lettered for the two respective locations,
although that is speculation on my part. If you want to locate the
photos for lot 2631, the bill of materials for this lot number is
grouped with and catalogued under lot 2656 (6 identical cars built for
NGCX). Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins