Re: End Sill Brake Hose Hanger
Schuyler Larrabee
The brake hose hanger included with some Sunshine kits is aSecond vote for these. In brass, please. SGL
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Pickle Quibble
Harry Meislahn
I have been challenged on the nutrient value of
pickles in my previous pickle car post. My source is "Early Settlers of the Dakotas" on the web and the nutrients cited are acetic acid and lactic acid. I have verified that pickles do indeed contain these acids (www.fao.org/docrep/V5030E/V5030E0d.htm). I am not about to buy a bottle of pickles, but I do think it's interesting that the federal government was so focussed on soldiers' nutrition in World War II that it took the seemingly bizarre step of buying part of a pickle company. Whether this was a good decision in view of our present understanding of nutrition seems far afield from steam era freight cars. Harry Meislahn
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RPM Meets
Andy Harman <andy10stmfc@...>
Clark Propst wrote:given a clinic each time, and each time I have done that clinic twice.<<<<spend my money on the hobby not food. The clinics were only on once, Actually the one I did in 2002 I may have done only once, but I know the last three for sure I did twice. I'm sure there are clinics more popular than mine, which were also given twice. Saturday. This is ok by itself, but it winds up splitting the activityNaperville is the Daddy meet. This year there was a half hour between<<<< between the model display room and the dealer room, which feels like about a 1/4 mile walk. Ok, it's not, but they aren't exactly adjacent. The model room just seemed to wither on Saturday... in the old days where the dealers were around in separate rooms, and open all the time (Fri and Sat), people were perhaps more spread out in general, but it seemed more balanced. The big one-day dealer room makes it feel like two separate events. My third and final try to send this post from a week ago. For some reason my mail client converted it to mime. First time Eudora has done than in 9 years.. Andy
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Re: Bulk Wine Shipments
hoghead32 <buckfiveoh@...>
Into the early 70's, Madiera Wines in Baltimore received uncut wine in
8,000/10,000 gal. tanks from California. Madiera simply cut and bottled the stuff for sale locally. The train crews would sometimes spot the car on a chock at one end, so when the car was emptied, about 50 gallons was left in the "empty" for retrieval up in the yard later. M.J. Buckelew [hoghead32] CanandaiguaRuss Strodtz wrote:In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at purchasedNY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley inAre you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
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Re: IM "reject" belt rail steel meat reefers...any prototypes?
Ed Hawkins
On Nov 18, 2006, at 2:48 PM, stefanelaine wrote:
I picked up some of those "ACF built" center belt rail meat reefersStephan, Reefers with 4-panels sides having horizontal riveted seams and square-corner 4/4 Dreadnaught Steel Ends were unique to ART. The URTX cars either have the wrong ends (various Improved Dreadnaught arrangements with round corners), wrong roof, wrong underframe (some were Duryea), or a combination. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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IM "reject" belt rail steel meat reefers...any prototypes?
oliver
Folks,
I picked up some of those "ACF built" center belt rail meat reefers for cheap that were done wrong for ARM by IM, in their anything goes schemes(Yes, I've got the good ART kits from Jerry as well). Any ideas on close prototypes for the IM "reject" cars? I've found pics of the follwing that look close: URTX 60067 Spencer Packing - needs 3/3 ends but looks to be close, not sure about roof URTX 60487 Needham Packing (60400-524 series?) - ends?, roof? URTX 67315 Des Moines Packers - ends/roof URTX 65074 Bookey packing - ends/roof IM actually has the Needham schemeavailable(doh!),but I'm not sure if any of these are workable for mid 1950s. I've got the RI leased URTX versions and the PCX "Hormel" versions, but these cars are obviously wrong as far as I can see (the Wathers GA car is closer) Any thoughts? Stefan Lerche' Duncan, BC
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Barrett Hopper color photo
hoghead32 <buckfiveoh@...>
Just over a year ago, I asked this group for information concerning
the Barrett hopper cars. Use the search engine on this site to review that discussion. I have posted a color photo of this Barrett hopper in the Photo File section under "hoghead32". The photo was taken by Robert D. Hess in April, 1960. Taken at Delta, Pa., it no doubt is hauling slate granules from the Funkhouser Quarry [GAF] at nearby Slate Hill, Pa. Thanks, Bob, for sharing your photo with us. Mike Buckelew [hoghead32]
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GATX 1961 & 66 "Manual"s
Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
I have as yet not managed to dredge up a photocopy of the 1961 GATX Tank Car Manual. But working from a photocopy of the 1966 version, I wonder how many of the drawings are suitable to STMFC's era - i.e. when were these built?
Is it possible to date these drawings (or - more important - the date of the cars built to them?): p.88 - ICC 103-W 10000 gallons non-insulated p.89 - ICC 103-W 10000 gallons insulated p.91 - ICC 103A-W 7000 gallons non-insulated p.9? - ICC 103A-N-W 8000 gallons non-insulated p.94 - ICC 103AL-W 10000 gallons insulated p.96 - ICC 103A-AL-W 10000 gallons non-insulated p.98 - ICC 103B-W 8000 gallons non-insulated p.100 - ICC 103C-W 8000 gallons non-insulated p.102 - ICC 103D-W 8000 gallons 2 compartments non-insulated p.104 - ICC 103E-W 8000 gallons insulated p.105 - ICC 105A300-W 11000 gallons insulated p.106 - ICC 105A300-W 55 ton chlorine built to ICC 105A500-W insulated p.110 - ICC 105A600-W 12600 gallons for Anhydrous Hydrogen chloride insulated p.111 - ICC 105A200AL-W 10200 gallons insulated I am quite sure these are completely useless to me for 1946, but wonder about their usefulness for friends modelling 1952 and 1953. Thanks to any who can help out on this, Rob Kirkham
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Re: End Sill Brake Hose Hanger
Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
The brake hose hanger included with some Sunshine kits is a different style
than the Kadee type. Looked at from the side, the Sunshine hanger looks like a hollow triangle extending about a foot beyond the end sill. I'd like to see this part available in a break-resistant material. It would be another step forward in accuracy for us rivet counters. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon
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Re: End Sill Brake Hose Hanger
Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
This is a timely subject that has my attention as we speak.
To my knowledge, only two suppliers produce brake hoses *with hangers*: Kadee and Bowser (Cal-Scale). The latter can be purchased in either plastic or brass, and is apparently a new reissued item in their catalogue. I have not yet seen them. PSC produces brake hoses, but no hangers that I can find. No supplier packages hangers for separate sale. I have used the Kadees with their fine hangers for some years. More and more modelers are removing (or not installing) the magnetic glad hands on their couplers. This alone makes the easily-perceived see-through 'space' below the couplers quite empty, a visual defect that has in turn motivated wholesale brake hose installation among many of us who have been otherwise in the past not been overly inclined to do so. The resulting effect is great. However (however...), in the ordinary handling of these cars in routine careful operations, these plastic hoses simply do not stand up, and I am constantly finding them broken scattered along the right of way (just like the prototype :-)). Frustration can arise pretty fast because the hoses break off, leaving a stub in the hanger- which of course is then no longer usable. I have currently suspended repairs on these cars, and I currently have far too many fine cars with broken-off brake hose stubs. The ideal would be brass or at least Delrin hoses, with either plastic or brass hangers . The Kadee mounts are pretty fine (as mentioned). The Cal Scale mounts are as yet unknown (to me), although a respected colleague has opined that 'if these were the mounts originally produced by Cal Scale [or Bowser] some years ago, they at that time did not look very good'. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento
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Offal is as offal does . . .
Peter Weiglin
Clark Propst wrote --
"Doug Harding has made a couple of convincing gon loads. They were featured in his packinghouse presentation." Yes, and Doug may dive in here. But in a post-presentation conversation, Doug mentioned that the "blood and guts" gondola load was painted using paint colors from the "Military Minature" shelf. Yes, they do assume that a modeler would want to replicate wounds correctly. So, there's a source for the correct paint colors. Doug's consultant was the military-modeling son of a well-known California railroad modeler whom I will not identify here, for his own security. Peter Weiglin Amelia, OH
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Accuracy of Con-Cor Produce or "Watermelon" car?
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Hi:
Has anyone ever compared the accuracy of the Con-Cor Produce/Watermelon car against a prototype ACL ventilated boxcar in the 17000 - 18999 series? Thanks, KL
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Re: End Sill Brake Hose Hanger
Charles Hladik
Denny,
For years I have been using the remains of the wire from micro bulbs, it's real "rubber" and flexible. You can even attach the glad hands of your choice. Works great for mu hoses also. In O scale I go to a larger wire. Good Luck, Chuck Hladik Rutland Railroad Virginia Division
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Ebay items
Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
I have a few items posted on Ebay ending in a couple days
http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5 I'll list more items on Sunday, including about a dozen Fine Scale Miniatures structure kits a friend asked me to sell for him. Rob Sarberenyi espeef5@...
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Re: Pickle Cars
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Meislahn . . . A curious detail was that the U.S. government apparently owned 25% of the company during World War II because of a pressing need for pickles as a source of nutrients for soldiers. ----- Original Message ----- ?!?!? - Pickles have virtually no nutritive value, except for sodium/salt. KL
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Pickle Cars
Harry Meislahn
Hi,
The Squire Dingee Company had a pickle packing plant on the C&NW next to the Clybourne station in Chicago. I remember it from the 1940's and '50's. The 4-vat cars had hatches on each side of the roof walk, and C&NW commuters like my dad used to see employees on top of the cars (which were lettered for Squire Dingee's Ma Brown brand) fishing the pickles out with nets on poles. I believe the pickle cars may have lasted well into the 1950's. Ma Brown pickles, packed in glass jars, were a familiar item on the shelves of local grocery stores. A-C Models offered an HO Ma Brown pickle car during this time period. My dad used to talk about the pickle cars as a prime example of inefficiency. Unloading was undoubtedly slow, and the cars seemed part of a bygone era when unskilled labor was cheap. From an article in Model Railroader years later, I guessed that the loads may have originated in Wisconsin, which remains a major growing area for vegetables. At least at that time, cucumbers were a significant crop in Wisconsin. With C&NW's many lines in Wisconsin, the move would probably have been local to the C&NW. However, a web search revealed that the Squire Dingee Company had a pickle operation in South Dakota near Belle Fourche beginning in 1856. According to a South Dakota history, pickles were shipped from there to the packing plant in Chicago. I don't know if they also came from Wisconsin. A curious detail was that the U.S. government apparently owned 25% of the company during World War II because of a pressing need for pickles as a source of nutrients for soldiers. I looked up the Ma Brown pickle cars in my October 1954 Official Railway Equipment Register. The reporting marks were S.D.X. and the car numbers were 103 and 116-224. The owner was the Squire Dingee Company of 1918 Elston Avenue in Chicago, and those 10 cars were their total roster. The AAR designation was TW and capacity was 100,000 pounds. The posting had been dated April 1949, more than five years previously. For the true trivia buff, it's likely the Ma Brown brand name reflected the fact that the company was owned by a family named Brown. One of their number, a Squire Dingee vice president, showed up in the 1896 Benton Harbor, MI, phone directory. As I recall from the 1940's, the president of the company was a Mr. Brown, who lived in Wilmette, IL. Harry Meislahn 976 Pine Street Winnetka, IL 60093
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Re: House car for groceries?
Paul <buygone@...>
Malcolm
I guess the first thing to do is that we need to agree to disagree. It appears that your experience with the Central was different than mine with the SP. You have not stated just what your position was with your company. I was both a Traffic Officer and an Operating Officer but not at the same time. Now that having been covered let me once again begin as to how we did it. Our VP of Traffic would meet with the head of transportation for General Motors either in SF or Detroit. This was done annually just before shut down for the following model year. They would discuss just what traffic we were to handle and from which junction we would get it and from which carrier we would receive it. Obviously we wanted to get it at E. St. Louis which would get us the greatest division of revenue. At E. St. Louis we ran on a seven day a week schedule a train we referred to as the APW (Auto Parts West) which was a dedicated train just for the auto parts going to South Gate CA, Ramer CA (Van Nuys) and Warm Springs CA. This train was destination blocked (all of the cars for each plant in one group) so that no switching was required in route, other than El Paso where RI junction cars could be added if tonnage allowed. The APW ran at the same speeds as the BSM. Now getting back to the assigned cars. Each movement was scheduled so that the parts would arrive at the plant the day needed to put into production. Now if it took 50 cars for this movement from loading, transit, unloading, return to origin and spot for re-loading. General Motors would get with all carriers in this route and as a group we would agree as to how many cars each would put into this movement. Than being said can you now tell me that the Central would refuse to accept the cars from the Southern Pacific for this movement? Especially since they would spend most of their time off line and the Southern Pacific would be getting the lion's share of the revenue, and they would not handle these empties just as expediously as the loaded cars. Back in the mid 1960's while on a visit to BOP South Gate, Vic Briscoe the Traffic Manager indicated to me that if the Southern Pacific would have arbitrarily added one day to the transit time of auto part just to his South Gate plant, GM would need an additional $8,000,000.00 in capital just for the parts inventory that additional day cost them. We did not fool around with GM and I'm willing to bet nether did the Central. Now on the other hand the Southern Pacific did not try to assign cars to off line industries that only shipped one or two cars per week. That is not what Tony was referring to nor was I. Just the biggies. Can we now agree? Paul C. Koehler _____ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Malcolm Laughlin Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 9:47 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries? Posted by: "Paul" Malcolm: I have never indicated that these agreements were a legally enforceable contract; again you're in the theory world I was in the real world. ========================== I have to respond because I've seen this comment a few times and it's just plain wrong. I'm talking from real world experience, not theory. I was a participant in the process in the offices at NYC where the decisions were made as to how many cars to assign to each pool in which we participating and how many to accept from other carriers. One of the very costly practices that we managed to stop was that of other railroads sending cars for assignment on our line just because the shipper had convinced a railroad salesman that they were necessary. We also worked hard on limiting the number of cars in each pool to the number actually needed, which was usually less than the salesmen would have assigned. There were other railroads, notably SP, which just caved in the the shippers because they didn't have the staff to carefully analyze the assignments and be sure that they were profitable. What I am saying here includes GM, Ford, etc. and did not lose us any desirable traffic because we could, in contrast to most railroads of that era (50's and 60's) show the shippers that we knew what we were doing. Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383 New England Rail Shipper Directories 19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
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Re: gondola's
Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
List,
Elden did such a great job on this car that retirees said they could "smell" it; and several had to step out for air, as it was so realistic. PRRT&HS meet attendee. Fred Freitas "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote: All; I modeled and presented an offal gon, based on extensive notes on the subject from Al Buchan and others, using an F&C PRR GS, in an early issue of TKM. I will try to dig that info and photos up. Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Louis C. Whiteley Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:26 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondola's --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote: stuff was Tower ontransported, although hopper cars were also used. fromthe Pennsy Main Line Philadelphia to Landover, I rode MD-47/MD-48 1965. ItThurlow Yard at Trainer, Pa. to Oxford, Pa. on Christmas Day Chesterwas the only time that I ever had the opportunity to ride the tripCreek Secondary Track and the Octoraro Branch. I had to make the it "onon my own time as the assignment clerk did not want to pay to send andthe clock" as this was almost always a 12 to 16 hour trip coming weregoing depending on how much switching had to be done. Operators therelimited to 12 Hrs and 59 minutes on duty (in any position where Federalwas one trick and no relief) and anything more would result in a we hadhours of service violation. made itseveral loads of manure in the consist that had to be set out at cameback to Thurlow at about 8 PM that evening. The first thing that car onto my mind when I saw those loaded cars in the train was train He saida hot day in the summer when he was qualifying as a dispatcher. that theythat the cabin was right behind 8 cars loaded with manure and you Northwere placed up in the body of the train. mixedYard for the MD-47 to take south the next day. The manure was thewith straw which came from the racing stables and horse farms in unloaded,south. Once set off on the local public delivery tracks and Avondale,the manure was taken to the mushroom farms by truck in the it wasKelton, Kennett Square, Toughkenamon and Oxford Pa. areas where They"cooked" before being spread on the beds in the mushroom houses. manure.used steam to kill off any organisms that were contained in the many,MD-48 would return the empties to Thurlow to be sent south to be anothermany years prior to my ride that Christmas morning. shipping"rural legend". I have heard a story about meat packing plants open gons.offal(?) (packing plant remains) from one plant to another in theThe story speaks of an Armour Plant in Kansas City shipping to story, lowDecker's Plant (Armour) in Mason City, Ia. According to the this tooksided gons where used. But no further information. I believe cars/gons wereplace in the 40's or 50's. important whatused. The Decker's plant was served by the M&StL. More duplicatemodels would work for the late 40's, and what would one use to mushroomthe load?On the Octararo branch of the PRR, there were a great number of Capitol ofhouses (as Kennett Square PA is the self proclaimed "Mushroom composted horsethe World"). Now, the raw material for growing mushroom is the racemanure, and a significant pool of this raw material existed in regular basis, thetracks and horse farms of the mid-atlantic region. On a composite gons, thatPRR hauled gons of horse manure. These were GR or GRA wereby that time were nearing the ends of their lives. The gons embargoed by therestricted from any other cargo. The cargo was finally extinguish anyPRR after the local fire departments refused to come out and Obviously,more burning gons, ignited by the heat of decomposing manure! as far fromtrain placement of these cars was critical as they needed to be lot of liquideither the loco or the cabin as possible... the car would(or they may not have cared if it leaked all over the place), be incertainly be one in its final years of use, and it would likely always wandercaptive service. If you need pictures of fresh offal, I can files section,down to the necropsy room, shoot a few and post them to the model offalor you can find several in a Google Images search <VBG>. To Bovineyou would need a thin walled tubing of a faily small diameter. a whitishintestine is up to ~2" diameter, and the color is anywhere from to beto purple, depending on circumstance. If the entire "pluck" is whitish), liverincluded, you might consider modeling clay for lungs (again even make a(liver colored <G>) and heart (reddish to purple). You could such a loadmaster and repetitively cast these parts in resin! Modeling covered gon?would definitely be a challenge...might I suggest a tarp <http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/> Benjamin ____________________________________Franklin __ __ __ ||- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | |/_____________________________\|_|__________________________________ __| 0 0-0-0| O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0- http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Along the route of MD47/MD48 on the Chester Creek Branch was American Rendering Co., which some summers could be smelled from Ridley Park. I imagine offal might have come from the Philadelphia Abattoir Co. on the Washington Ave. Branch. I have never seen any first-hand accounts of shipments of this other fragant commodity, though. Lou Whiteley Lawrenceville, NJ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/> Benjamin Franklin ______________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ ____ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ |||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|__________________________________ __| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-00-0-0 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Re: Atlas Type 105 tank cars
Ed Hawkins
On Nov 17, 2006, at 5:30 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:
Inside tank diameter was 89-1/4" plus 8" insulation between the jacketI didn't say this right. The insulation blanket was 4" thick, resulting in an increase of 8" in outside jacket diameter. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: Atlas Type 105 tank cars
Ed Hawkins
On Nov 16, 2006, at 9:05 PM, Louis C. Whiteley wrote:
I'm interested in earlier GOPX tank cars, which I believer were inLou, The GOPX 90-99 series cars were built 9-47 (lot 3152) and had 6-section jackets. They had Apex running boards and dome platforms (simple platforms on the sides). The top of the casing except dome was painted Dupont Orange. Dome was painted white. Bottom of casing, underframe, trucks, ladders, and hand rails were painted black. Black stencils over orange and white stencils over black, except that "GAS OIL PRODUCTS, INC." and "NATUROL GAS" black stencils were outlined in white. This car more or less matches the Atlas model, with exceptions as previously noted on the STMFC (such as the Atlas model has wood running boards and a number of other aberrations). Nearly identical cars were built as GOPX 201-202 in 5-52 (lot 3728), except that lot 3152 had all three AB brake components on the same side of the center sill and lot 3728 had the reservoir on the other side of the center sill. Inside tank diameter was 89-1/4" plus 8" insulation between the jacket and tank. Underframe length was 38'-5 1/8" over end sills. The GOPX 100-103 series cars were built 12-43 (lot 2631) and 104-105 were built 9-44 (lot 2696). These cars were built to an earlier Type 27 design, 85" ID tank (does not count the extra 8" added to the jacket diameter for the 4" insulation blanket), underframe length 42'-2 1/8" over the end sills (nearly 4' longer than the cars built in 1947 and 1952). Wood running boards and dome platforms. Similar painting as lot 3152 except domes were orange. Due to the increased length these cars had jackets made of 7 sections. There were some variations in the lettering between lot 2631 and 2696, including the sizes of some stencils and placement. The builder's photo of GOPX 103 has "Miami, Florida" stencils. GOPX 100 and 104 have "Oxford, Pennsylvania" stencils. Builder's photos for all these cars are at the St. Louis Mercantile Library. I suspect that half of the cars in each lot were lettered for the two respective locations, although that is speculation on my part. If you want to locate the photos for lot 2631, the bill of materials for this lot number is grouped with and catalogued under lot 2656 (6 identical cars built for NGCX). Hope this helps. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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