Date   

Re: Monon Covered Hopper

Michael Aufderheide
 

All:

See the Ry-Ops industry database at:

http://www.opsig.org/industrydb/

It lists two in Chicago:

General Mills Co Rialto Elevator, Chicago IL, BRC, Ship:Cereal, flour,
grain elevator

Gold Medal Foods Div General Mills Co,Chicago IL,BRC, Ship:Flour

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:

Dan,

I think it was Chicago, but I'm not sure. Someone else on the
list might have better knowledge.

Mont Switzer

"D. Port Jr." <hudson464@...> wrote:
Hi Mont,

Could you tell me where the General Mills plant was located?

I'm always interested to learn where cars got assigned.

Thanks.
Dan


PE and CGW cars

sc279373 <sccooper@...>
 

Loads of thanks to all who have replied to my original message,I have
got a shed load of info.from all you gents-wonderful!
I have the Red Caboose models and a lot of K/D PSL 40' box cars which I
have decorated with Oddballs decals for CGW.(Excellent decals by the
way).
Having changed my modelling back to the east coast,I was'ent certain if
these roads got this far east.
Having said that,I have photo's of CNJ express box cars in Denver,these
are in C.T.Bosselers Morning Sun book CNJ Equipment.
Thanks again
Steve


Re: F&C tank car mods

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Rod,

You might find a suitable diameter tube for the tank, and ends in the Plastruct catalog.
Then emboss rivet detail on a .005 plastic wrapper. I'm sure you will get further ideas.

Fred Freitas

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@shaw.ca> wrote:
While on the topic of the F&C tank car, I wonder if anyone can advise
whether the frame is good for a 10000 gallon tank instead of the 8000 gallon
tank supplied by F&C. Of course the saddle/tank cradles would have to be
modified - my question is in terms of length and layout of the various sills
and cross bearers, etc. My reason - the CPR had very similar cars - but
with larger tanks than the PRR.

Don't ask me how I'm going to make a larger tank - that project is still in
the conceptual stages with my rivet machine .....

Rob Kirkham






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Re: F&C tank car mods

Bruce Smith
 

On Dec 13, 2006, at 6:59 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
So far they have 6990/6991, PRR with white and black
decals respectively; 7030, National Oil Co.; and 7031, Associated Oil
Co. The latter two are based on prints from Bob's Photos.
Any of you with those photos have the dates? I haven't managed to pick either up yet.

She told me
they are considering other variations using common parts, possibly a 10K
car, but there is nothing definite in the plans at this time.
Well, they have the same problem with the 10K tank that Rob does. After all, if you look closely, the 8K tank has the same issues as the old brass "TM8" model <VBG>. In particular the ends are smaller diameter than the tank.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the
windshield."
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Re: Dare I ask these questions?

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dave,

I will look into this, but I can't do anything until Friday or even maybe Tuesday. Anyone can take advantage of their 2 for 1 + bagged kit offer right now, and F&C takes phone/credit card orders. The number is 570-224-4989. When I met the F&C folks last spring at Timonium, they told me to use the listings in the Walthers catalog, as they don't put their whole line on their sheets. Last night I asked about several cars that weren't on the sheet, and was told they were in stock.

You can get on their mailing list by sending they a supply of #10 SSAEs (.39 postage). The address is 10 Funaro Court, Honesdale, PA 18431. They also have a new web site at http://www.fandckits.com .

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Dave Nelson wrote:


Garth, so you have a scan of that sheet? Placing it into the files section
would allow others to make use of the deal you described.

Dave Nelson




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: F&C tank car mods

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Rob and Friends,

I believe that the 8,000 and 10,000 gallon cars used the same frame. I'm sure Richard or Tony will correct me if I'm wrong. I have the dimensioned drawings of the WP 10K tanks at home and can check for you, but don't have documentation for the 8K size.

I talked with the nice lady at F&C last night. She confirmed at all their tank cars so far are the same castings, 8,000 gallons. When I asked for their "AC&F Type 11", she corrected me and said they were aware of the disagreement over the nomenclature. I didn't argue the point, but will stick with Richard's assessment. She also said they are considering offering other lettering for the existing cars as they find documentation. So far they have 6990/6991, PRR with white and black decals respectively; 7030, National Oil Co.; and 7031, Associated Oil Co. The latter two are based on prints from Bob's Photos. She told me they are considering other variations using common parts, possibly a 10K car, but there is nothing definite in the plans at this time. I put in a bid for the 10K high-walkway Type 4, which was a Western Pacific signature car.

I bought one copy of 7031, plus some other stuff.

The 10K tank seems to be about the same diameter as the Walthers tank. It is 3' longer than the dimension given for the WP cars. The dome is way too big, and I haven't found anything like those end mounted safety valves. I sectioned the tank just inside the end bands, took a like amount from the underframe, and made some other changes to approximate the WP 10K high-walkway cars using detail photos I took of a surviving car at the Western Railway Museum. It is just a stand-in until something better comes along.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Rob Kirkham wrote:

While on the topic of the F&C tank car, I wonder if anyone can advise whether the frame is good for a 10000 gallon tank instead of the 8000 gallon tank supplied by F&C. Of course the saddle/tank cradles would have to be modified - my question is in terms of length and layout of the various sills and cross bearers, etc. My reason - the CPR had very similar cars - but with larger tanks than the PRR.

Don't ask me how I'm going to make a larger tank - that project is still in the conceptual stages with my rivet machine .....

Rob Kirkham


F&C tank car mods

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

While on the topic of the F&C tank car, I wonder if anyone can advise whether the frame is good for a 10000 gallon tank instead of the 8000 gallon tank supplied by F&C. Of course the saddle/tank cradles would have to be modified - my question is in terms of length and layout of the various sills and cross bearers, etc. My reason - the CPR had very similar cars - but with larger tanks than the PRR.

Don't ask me how I'm going to make a larger tank - that project is still in the conceptual stages with my rivet machine .....

Rob Kirkham


Re: Wright Trak FGE Reefer

Frank Greene <fgreen01@...>
 

"Jim & Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@verizon.net> wrote:
I have this kit too and find the kit itself to be very well done. However when it comes to photos and other info, prototype or model, there just isn't much.

I have this photo of FGEX 1580 at NCTM: < http://frankg290.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=594507.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: PE and CGW cars

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

al_brown03 wrote:

*And*, on p 69 there's a picture of CGW 91083, in Frederick, Md., on
6 Oct '46. So cars from both CGW and PE made it out East.

To summarize several comments from this thread and others, the point
is that boxcars in general service wandered all over. If you're
modeling an Eastern line, one probably didn't see a *lot* of cars
from smaller roads far away, but were there *some*? Sure. If you
have a PE car and a CGW car, of the right era, it's almost certainly
close-enough-to-prototypic to run them; but unless your fleet is
*huge*, I don't think I'd go on to add a Northwestern Pacific car, a
Mississippi Central car, a KO&G car, and a Hannibal Connecting car.
Unless there's specific documentation that they visited your line,
of course.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.












Between 1940 and 1960, the CGW owned between 3,000 and 4,000 boxcars. Of the approximate 720,000 boxcars owned nationally, that means that there was one CGW boxcar for every 180-240 boxcars. That means that one out of every 180-240 foreign boxcars on a line would be one owned by the CGW.

What the percentage of home road boxcars on line would depend on 1) whether the branch, division or road originated more traffic than was terminated ( or vice versa); and 2) whether the economy was booming or in recession.

Regarding Originated vs. Terminated, if a road terminated more carloadings than they originated, the supply of empty boxcars for reloadings could come from those boxcars which had just been unloaded. This reloading would have been in compliance with Interchange Rule #1 - to wit, to give precedence to loading of foreign-owned empty cars to the extent possible. The rule to route reloaded foreign boxcars only in the direction of their home road was largely ignored.

If a road originated more boxcar carloadings than were terminated as there would be with the seasonal grain rush and the rural lumber loadings, then a supply of empties would have to be brought into the area where the carloadings were originated. Since home road boxcars were considered as a strategic reserve to be used only when all other alternatives had been considered, there would be a much higher percentage of home road boxcars on line than there would be if more boxcars were terminated than originated on line.

In both New Jersey and Pennsylvania, more boxcar carloadings were terminated than originated.

Because of Customs restrictions, there was not a free flow of Canadian boxcars in America. To load a Canadian car in America, the Canadian car had to be terminated in or routed through Canada; thus, the percentage of Canadian boxcars on an American line would be greater on lines closer to the US-Canada border than on lines further away. Mexican boxcars in the US were a non-factor.

Regarding the effect upon the home road percentage of boxcars on line of the state of the economy, if the economy was booming, then the home road percentage of boxcars on line would be lower than would be the case if the economy was in recession. There were not enough reloads available in a recession so the empty boxcars would be routed home to avoid unnecessary per diem charges.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert




Re: GFCX 100

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stephen Bishop wrote:
"I am building an HO Eastern Car Works 70-ton Enterprise Covered
Hopper kit to represent the General Foods covered hopper as seen in
NH Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, page 32. This is
the only photo I've seen and my question is: is this a white car with
light grey streaking, a light grey car with white spreaking, or
something else. Since there are people on this list who are
infinitely wise in these matters, I thought I would ask."

Roger Hinman replied:
"Sure looks grey to me; these cars were rebuilds of the so
called 'Despatch' hopper cars which have been available in resin in
the past."

I agree with Roger - it looks like a gray car with white streaking to
me. The 'Despatch' covered hoppers are available from Funaro in HO
scale:
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6610.html

Kitbashing this car from the Funaro kit looks pretty straightforward -
most of the work looks to be in reworking the hatches.


Ben Hom


Re: Wright Trak FGE Reefer

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Hayes wrote:
"When it comes to decals, the best I've found is Microscale's 87-535
for BREX mechanical reefers but it's out of stock. Champ's HR-66 may
work for WFEX. For FGE I haven't found anything."

The Wright Trak website lists Microscale 87-238 for FGEX. It's listed
in stock on the Microscale website, but the graphics file on the
webpage won't come up, so I can't comment on the quality or accuracy of
the decal set.


Ben Hom


Re: PE and CGW cars

al_brown03
 

*And*, on p 69 there's a picture of CGW 91083, in Frederick, Md., on
6 Oct '46. So cars from both CGW and PE made it out East.

To summarize several comments from this thread and others, the point
is that boxcars in general service wandered all over. If you're
modeling an Eastern line, one probably didn't see a *lot* of cars
from smaller roads far away, but were there *some*? Sure. If you
have a PE car and a CGW car, of the right era, it's almost certainly
close-enough-to-prototypic to run them; but unless your fleet is
*huge*, I don't think I'd go on to add a Northwestern Pacific car, a
Mississippi Central car, a KO&G car, and a Hannibal Connecting car.
Unless there's specific documentation that they visited your line,
of course.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@...>
wrote:

In the new Larry Kline and Ted Culotta book "The Postwar Freight
Car Fleet"
on page 46 there is a picture of P.E. 2770 in Harrisburg, Pa. on
July 19,
1947.
Charlie Slater

From: "sc279373" <sccooper@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] PE and CGW cars
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:47:57 -0000

Hello to you all
I'm the new boy on the block and I'd like to ask the following
question-
Would Pacific Electric and Chicago Great Western cars(of any sort)
be
seen in New Jersey or Pennsylvania ?
Would they make that sort of a long journey from their home road?
Regards
Steve
_________________________________________________________________
View Athlete's Collections with Live Search
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Re: PE and CGW cars

charles slater
 

In the new Larry Kline and Ted Culotta book "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" on page 46 there is a picture of P.E. 2770 in Harrisburg, Pa. on July 19, 1947.
Charlie Slater

From: "sc279373" <sccooper@btinternet.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] PE and CGW cars
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:47:57 -0000

Hello to you all
I'm the new boy on the block and I'd like to ask the following question-
Would Pacific Electric and Chicago Great Western cars(of any sort)be
seen in New Jersey or Pennsylvania ?
Would they make that sort of a long journey from their home road?
Regards
Steve
_________________________________________________________________
View Athlete�s Collections with Live Search http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01


Re: Wright Trak FGE Reefer

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I have this kit too and find the kit itself to be very well done. However
when it comes to photos and other info, prototype or model, there just isn't
much. There is a photo of a BREX reefer that seems to match in The Great
Yellow Fleet, page 119. I also found photos of the old Pacific HO version of
the kit somewhere online. There is a photo of a WFEX car that seems to match
on page 33 of Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial - Book 3. I haven't
found anything for FGE except the small photos of the model on the website
www.wrighttrak.com <http://www.wrighttrak.com/>



When it comes to decals, the best I've found is Microscale's 87-535 for BREX
mechanical reefers but it's out of stock. Champ's HR-66 may work for WFEX.
For FGE I haven't found anything. When it comes to decals and prototype
info, this kit is very frustrating to me.



Any help would be appreciated.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon


Re: GFCX 100

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

Sure looks grey to me; these cars were rebuilds of the so called
"Despatch" hopper cars which have been
available in resin in the past. These cars were leased by MDT and the
referenced photo shows it last shopped at
MDT's Cudahy, WI car shop.

Roger Hinman

On Dec 12, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Stephen Bishop wrote:

I am building an HO Eastern Car Works 70-ton Enterprise Covered
Hopper kit to represent the General Foods covered hopper as seen in
NH Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, page 32. This is
the only photo I've seen and my question is: is this a white car
with light grey streaking, a light grey car with white spreaking,
or something else. Since there are people on this list who are
infinitely wise in these matters, I thought I would ask.

Thanks in advance.

Steve Bishop
superlab2003@yahoo.com

---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.





Re: Wright Trak FGE Reefer

bkooistra@...
 

Bill McClure wrote:
"If I have missed discussion of this kit, I apologize. Wright has
produced what looks like a nice, highly-detailed resin kit for what
the box says is a 1952 FGE mechanical reefer. The kit has no photos or
decals. Might be hard questions to answer without seeing the kit, but
does the list know if there are suitable decals for FGE mechanical
cars circa 1952 and where photos might be found? I like the looks of
the kit, but without decals or other data...."

Actually, not only are there no photos or decals, but the two kits I bought were missing the diagram for the underframe components referenced in the instructions, which were pretty rudimentary to start with. The instructions DO mention referring to photos on the website to aid in construction, but the website photos are so small and of such low resolution as to be of little if any use. Instructions DID mention you can write to Wrightrack for "hard copy" photos to work off of.

A very nice body casting and great stainless sprues but the instructions and reference material are extremely sub-par for a $40-plus kit. I think Gene Fusco has the right idea in offering a CD with this information as part of his RailYard kits.

--blair kooistra
fort worth, TX


Re: Monon Covered Hopper

Charlie Vlk
 

General Mills has several plants in Chicago. I am not certain they don't have plants elsewhere as well given the diversity of their product line...
perhaps Battle Creek, MI as well????
Charlie Vlk


Re: Freight car end lettering

David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
 

Thanks for the info Richard



DJK



_____

From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@opendoor.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:26 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight car end lettering



On Dec 12, 2006, at 11:10 AM, David Karkoski wrote:

I do not have a lot of photos of freight car ends and wanted to get
some
clarification on end lettering. Is it typical that the same
information
is presented on both ends or is the information unique to the A and B
end?
Stenciling was the same on both ends.

Are there some common texts that could be applied to the ends in
instances where you have no photos?
Well, some of the mechanical data stenciled on the ends was quite
common, but it depends a great deal on the era you model. For example,
In the 1950s, cars with wrought steel wheels and long-travel truck
springs generally had that information stenciled on them, and in the
late 1940s/early 1950s older cars that had been converted from K to AB
air brake equipment were required to be so stenciled on either the
sides or ends. But different RRs followed somewhat different
practices, and some RRs stenciled information on the ends that other
RRs didn't bother about. Unfortunately, photos of specific cars at
specific dates are the only reliable guide.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Monon Covered Hopper

D. Port Jr.
 

Thanks Mont.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mont Switzer" <mhts_switzerm@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Monon Covered Hopper


Dan,

I think it was Chicago, but I'm not sure. Someone else on the list
might have better knowledge.

Mont Switzer

"D. Port Jr." <hudson464@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Mont,

Could you tell me where the General Mills plant was located?

I'm always interested to learn where cars got assigned.

Thanks.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mont Switzer" <mhts_switzerm@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Monon Covered Hopper

Dan,

Yes, the Monon got these cars in 12-53. I know Athearn worked form
photos on this project and these numbers can get pretty hard to see. By
the
way, 4413 was originally assigned to Genral Mills.

Mont Switzer

"D. Port Jr." <hudson464@verizon.net> wrote:
Just wanted to say thank you to all for the replies I received
about my
question.
It was very helpful.

Mont,

The car number I have 4413 has a NEW 12-55 Date.

Did Athearn get the year wrong?

Thanks for your help.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mont Switzer" <mhts_switzerm@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Monon Covered Hopper

Dan,

The short answeer is no. The Monon didn't begin loading grain in
covered hoppers until the late 1960's and then only on a limited basis.
Instead the railroad operated a number of boxcars with roof hatches.

Your Athearn car respresents the Monon's first group of 3 bay covered
hoppers. They were built in 12-53 by Pullman Standard and numbered
C.I.L.
4401-4430.

In 1953 three bay covered hoppers were pretty spcialized cars and the
railroad would only have purchased them if had a pre-determined purpose
which was the case. All 30 cars were equipped with vibrators to handle
flour with cars 4401 - 4415 being assigned to General Mills.

The flour business ultimately ended up on airslide cars and the 3 bay
covered hoppers were placed in sand service assinged to Sand Brokers at
Michigan City, IN.

Due to the nature of the products that these cars handled I suspect
they
did not travel far from their midwest ownership and they could always
seen
on line.

An interesting side note concerns the sand cars that moved between
Michigan City, IN and Indianapolis, IN. As I attempted to dupicate Monon
operatons and schedules in HO scale I learned that train scheduling
between
Michigan City branch and Indianapolis branch had the railroad moving
sand
cars between the two points via Monon, IN overnight. This is a good
example
of how model operations can assist us in learning how the prototype
operated.

Mont Switzer





"D. Port Jr." <hudson464@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have a Athearn PS 2893 Covered Hopper lettered for the Monon.

Did the Monon use them for grain loading?

Thank You.

Dan Port Jr.








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Re: Freight car end lettering

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 12, 2006, at 11:10 AM, David Karkoski wrote:

I do not have a lot of photos of freight car ends and wanted to get some
clarification on end lettering. Is it typical that the same information
is presented on both ends or is the information unique to the A and B
end?
Stenciling was the same on both ends.

Are there some common texts that could be applied to the ends in
instances where you have no photos?
Well, some of the mechanical data stenciled on the ends was quite common, but it depends a great deal on the era you model. For example, In the 1950s, cars with wrought steel wheels and long-travel truck springs generally had that information stenciled on them, and in the late 1940s/early 1950s older cars that had been converted from K to AB air brake equipment were required to be so stenciled on either the sides or ends. But different RRs followed somewhat different practices, and some RRs stenciled information on the ends that other RRs didn't bother about. Unfortunately, photos of specific cars at specific dates are the only reliable guide.

Richard Hendrickson

131141 - 131160 of 189574