Re: Two brake system modeling questions

Bob Karig <karig@...>

I measured the outside diameter of several items here at the Railroad
Museum of Pennsylvania.

Here are the results:

Outside
HO Scale
Item Dimension
Equivalent
Train line 1
5/8" .0186"
Pipe from train line to triple valve 1 3/8" .0158"
Pipe from reservoir to brake cylinder 1 1/16" .0122"
Pipe from triple valve to retaining valve 11/16" .0079"
Brake release lever 1/2" .0057"
Brake rods 1 3/16" .0093"
Grab irons 3/4" .0086"
Brake shaft 1 1/2" .0172"

Bob

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

rfederle@...

Ooops forgot to add this to lengthy commentary. Since the Brake Pipe is 1 1/4" ID the assumption that it is standard Schedule 40 Pipe the wall thickness would be about 1/8" and the outside Pipe Diameter would be
1 1/2" so use a wire diameter accordingly.

Robert Federle
---- Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

The brake pipe(train line)is 1-1/4" pipe . . .
Jeff Coleman

That's ID, right?

SGL

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

rfederle@...

Being an engineer I can tell you that all pipe sizes are referencing the Inside Diameter with the exception of heavier walled pipe such as Schedule 80 or above. The Brake Pipe size is generally Schedule 40 which is for moderate pressures generally less than 150 psi.

Remember that Pipe is measured by inside while Tubing is measured by outside diameters. Also some valves and fittings have cast into them the letters WOG and that stands for Water, Oil or Gas. A number cast near this, such as 6oo would be the working pressures for the WOG materials flowing through it. Since the Brake Pipe and fittings are for Air this would fall into the Gas catagory.

Hope this dont confuse you.

Robert Federle
---- Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

The brake pipe(train line)is 1-1/4" pipe . . .
Jeff Coleman

That's ID, right?

SGL

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

Schuyler Larrabee

The brake pipe(train line)is 1-1/4" pipe . . .
Jeff Coleman

That's ID, right?

SGL

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

rfederle@...

This release valve on some (if not all) cars I've been around have a small (1" or 1 1/2") Stencil above this rod handle stating "RELEASE"

Robert Federle
---- mjmcguirk@... wrote:

Hello all,

Hope you all had a wonderful holiday.

I have two (hopefully) quick questions about modeling brake systems:

1. What size wire is appropriate for a train line (specifically the line visible on the side of the hopper) in HO scale?

2. What do you call the small wire extending from the AB triple valve to the side sill of the car on both sides? Is this the release lever? I noticed it on the prototype photo of the CV hopper I'm building -- and can't remember the proper name for it!

Thanks,

Marty

Anniversary of the USRA

MDelvec952

On this date in 1917 the USRA took control of America's railroads.

including the freight cars.

Mike Del Vecchio

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

MDelvec952

In a message dated 12/26/2006 2:52:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rfederle@... writes:

Being an engineer I can tell you that all pipe sizes are referencing the
Inside Diameter with the exception of heavier walled pipe such as Schedule 80 or
above. The Brake Pipe size is generally Schedule 40 which is for moderate
pressures generally less than 150 psi.

I was going to chime in after reading all of these, (nice to have a day off
for a change). The Union Tank Car carmen where I work say that schedule 80
is all they're allowed to use for railroad brake pipes, and our mechanics on
the Morristown & Erie feel the same way. Schedule 80 Brake pipe measures just
above 1 1/2".

Release rods, also called bleed rods or bleeders by trainmen, are usually
1/2" and sometimes 3/8". One spotting feature that changed after the scope of
this list is the bend at the end. Steam-era AB rods have a 90-degree bend
with a 4-inch or longer bit of rod for the trainman to hold on to. To bleed off
a car the trainman had to pull (or push) on the rod until the brakes
released, or until the reservoir was empty. Diesel-era ABs of the many versions have
an automatic release feature where the trainman only needs to pull (or push)
on the rod for a second or two until he hears the AB valve click, and then
the AB bleeds itself off. Rods on the automatic release valves have just a
little loop at the end of the rod, providing a quick spotting feature for
trainmen who would work with both types.

That list of measurements is good. When I was more actively modeling I
measured the key rods and piping on older freight cars. After once using my own
hair for a retainer line, I concluded trying to portray the relationships in
thicknesses between the various components was more important than matching
each exact size. Using the 3/4-inch grab irons (.080 wire is perfect once
covered with paint) as a reference, since those are the most numerous and
visible on a model, the vertical brake staffs are about twice as heavy, train lines
and brake rods were between the two, retaining lines are lighter than grab
irons, etc. In an era when you couldn't trust the wire sizes in many kits
and the pre-formed ones were too thick for my tastes, I could stock the basic
stuff and not worry about what came with the kit, reusing it where its size
deemed appropriate. I built a jig and used to make my own ladders with 3/4
rungs, also largely uneeded today.

Mike Del Vecchio

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>

Hi Marty,

The train pipe is a nominal 1-1/4" pipe, about 1.66" actual o.d., or .019"
in HO scale. The other element you're asking about is the release (also
called "bleed") rod, used for releasing the pressure in a car's brake
system. It's attached to the release valve stem on the service side of the
AB valve. The release rod is 1/2" in diameter, or .006" in HO. (Info from
Gene Green's Freight Car Underbody Detail clinic book.)

Happy New Year,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142

Re: USRA Composite Gon Question

Richard Hendrickson

On Dec 26, 2006, at 6:15 AM, Don Smith rgs0554 wrote:

I had originally thought that the USRA composite gondola
was built only in a style with eight drop bottom doors (modeled
with the HO kit offered by Intermountain). I recently acquired a
copy of the September 1990 RMC containing an article by Martin
Lofton about modeling the rebuilt USRA gondolas of the Frisco
Line. Martin states that all of the USRA gons aned later clones
obtained by the Frisco were solid bottom gondolas. My question
is: Were there any differences other the drop door actuating
mechanism itself between solid bottom and drop bottom USRA
gondolas?
Don, all of the USRA gondolas had drop bottom doors when built, regardless of the railroad to which they were assigned. The drop bottom doors wee a maintenance problem, however, and a number of RRs on which they were seldom or never used eliminated them in favor of solid wood floors. Cars built to the USRA design in the 1920s may have had solid floors when new (and other minor variations as well), but the composite gondolas built for the USRA were all alike.

Richard Hendrickson

If you're really old, you remember that Beetle was not always in the
army. In the first year of publication what did he do? - Al
Westerfield

College student. But why all these past-tense references?? Beetle
Bailey is still in syndication and runs every day in the DENVER POST
and many other newspapers.

See many of you in Cocoa Beach in 9 days - weather and United Airlines
permitting. The 32" of snow that fell last week is pretty well under
control, but another large snowstorm is forecast for the Denver area
this Thursday and Friday.

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

Jeff Coleman

The brake pipe(train line)is 11/4" pipe and the release rod is 1/2" rod.
Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:

Hello all,

Hope you all had a wonderful holiday.

I have two (hopefully) quick questions about modeling brake systems:

1. What size wire is appropriate for a train line (specifically the
line visible on the side of the hopper) in HO scale?

2. What do you call the small wire extending from the AB triple
valve to the side sill of the car on both sides? Is this the release
lever? I noticed it on the prototype photo of the CV hopper I'm
building -- and can't remember the proper name for it!

Thanks,

Marty

Re: Two brake system modeling questions

ljack70117@...

On the RRs I worked for we called it the bleeder line. It bled off the main air tank.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

On Dec 26, 2006, at 10:43 AM, <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:

Hello all,

Hope you all had a wonderful holiday.

I have two (hopefully) quick questions about modeling brake systems:

1. What size wire is appropriate for a train line (specifically the line visible on the side of the hopper) in HO scale?

2. What do you call the small wire extending from the AB triple valve to the side sill of the car on both sides? Is this the release lever? I noticed it on the prototype photo of the CV hopper I'm building -- and can't remember the proper name for it!

Thanks,

Marty

Schuyler Larrabee

Now back to modeling steam era freight cars
Pierre Oliver

This list >>has<< been primarily OT for some time now . . .

SGL

Two brake system modeling questions

mjmcguirk@...

Hello all,

Hope you all had a wonderful holiday.

I have two (hopefully) quick questions about modeling brake systems:

1. What size wire is appropriate for a train line (specifically the line visible on the side of the hopper) in HO scale?

2. What do you call the small wire extending from the AB triple valve to the side sill of the car on both sides? Is this the release lever? I noticed it on the prototype photo of the CV hopper I'm building -- and can't remember the proper name for it!

Thanks,

Marty

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>

I know it's way off topic, but its always good to learn new things.
Origin of Boxing Day:

Boxing Day

The day after Christmas, the Feast of St. Stephen, the first Christian
martyr, is better known as Boxing Day. The term may come from the
opening of church poor boxes that day; maybe from the earthenware
boxes with which boy apprentices collected money at the doors of their
masters' clients.

those who provide services throughout the year.

"Boxing Day" is listed in the Canada Labour Code as a holiday.

Now back to modeling steam era freight cars
Pierre Oliver

Merry (day after) Christmas>
Here in the UK this is called Boxing Day (dunno why) and is a public
holiday.

Cheers and beers

Barry

Re: Practical use for model box cars

Ian Cranstone

On 25-Dec-06, at 12:46 PM, Jim Peters wrote:
- CN 475916 was built by the National Steel Car Co of Hamilton, Ontario about 1937 (I will verify the date when I'm home later in the week).
Built by National Steel Car in 7/38. CN later rebuilt this car to 423271 in 4/72 as part of their 1960s-70s-80s boxcar refurbishment programs.
- CN 414593 is a Fowler car (a previous discussion on this group) built between 1917 and 1923 for one of the predecessores of the Canadian National.
More specifically, built by National Steel Car in 3/18 as CGR 552443.

Ian Cranstone
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net

*N Scale* Special Priced Red Caboose Freight Cars

Andy Carlson

I have received limited numbers of select Red Caboose N scale ready to run (assembled) freight cars which may be of interest. These cars are Brand New, in unopened factory packaging, received direct from Red Caboose. Perhaps with some careful lettering removal, a modeler could reletter for their own choice of road, saving time and money. Anyhow, here is a chance to get some excellent RC cars at a very good price. Shipping is charged for all orders. FREE Shipping for orders of more than 5 cars. If interested, please contact me off-list at <midcentury@...>
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
MT Trucks & couplers denoted w/ a * before part number, all others have RC knuckle couplers and RC trucks

RN-17010 PRR X29 boxcar circle keystone (have 6, 6#'s).......\$8.00
RN-17014 L&NE 40' ARA boxcar (have 2. 2 #'s)......\$8.00
RN-17020 B&M X29 boxcar (have 2, 2 #'s)......\$8.00
RN-17024 PRR X29 boxcar shaded keystone (have6,6#'s)......\$8.00
RN-17036 MeC 40' ARA boxcar (have 2. 2 #'s)......\$8.00
RN-17044 CNJ 40' ARA boxcar (have 2, 2 #'s).....\$8.00
RN-17048-2 CGW X29 boxcar (have 4, 4 #'s).....\$8.00
*RN-27010 PRR X29 boxcar C Keystone (have12, 12#).........\$9.00
*RN-27048 CGW X29 boxcar (have 6, 6 #'s)......\$9.00
RN-18012 WFE 40' steel reefer (have 6, 6 #'s).........\$9.00
RN-18010 FGE 40' steel reefer (have 6, 6 #'s).......\$9.00
RN-18410 BREX CB&Q 40' stl reefer (have 6, 6 #'s).......\$9.00
RN-16032 GN 42' 2 pack Flatcars (have 3 2-Pacs, 3 #'s)......\$10.00pair
RN-16033 GN 42' 6 pack flatcars (have 1 6-pac)............\$29.00all
RN-16029 NYC 42' 6 pack flatcars (have 1 6-pac)............\$29.00all

I also have coil cars, PFE Mechanical Reefers, and a few thrall all-door cars, simply request a "post STMFC" list

HO Special Priced Red Caboose Freight Cars

Andy Carlson

I have received limited numbers of select Red Caboose freight cars which may be of interest. These cars are Brand New, in unopened factory packaging, received direct from Red Caboose. Perhaps with some careful lettering removal, a modeler could reletter for their own choice of road, saving time and money. Anyhow, here is a chance to get some excellent RC cars at a very good price. Shipping is charged for all orders. If interested, please contact me off-list at <midcentury@...>
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

PARTS

X29 "patch" panel, plate end body (only).........................\$3.00/each

KITS

RC-5018 D&RGW Beet Gon (have 6, 6 #'s)...................\$15.00/each
RC-8015 Nickel Plate '37 ARA box (have2, 2 #'s)...........\$16.00/each
RC-8026 P&LE SD '37 AAR boxcar (have 8, 4 #'s).........\$15.00/each
RC-8092 P&LE SD '37 AAR boxcar (have 2, 2 #'s).........\$16.00/each
RC-8086 LS&I SD '37 AAR boxcar (have 7, 4 #'s)..........\$15.00/each
RC-7160 MEC ARA Green boxcar (have 2, 2 #'s)...........\$16.00/each
RC-7153 MEC ARA Red boxcar (have 4, 4 #'s).............\$15.00/each

RTR (Assembled)

RR-38009 CP '37 AAR boxcar (have 9, 8 #'s)................\$19.00/each
RR-38092 P&LE '37 AAR boxcar (have 6, 6 #'s)............\$19.00/each
RR-38070 New Haven blk '37 boxcar (have 6, 6 #'s).......\$19.00/each
RR-38086 LS&I '37 AAR boxcar (have 4, 4 #'s).............\$19.00/each
RR-37160 MEC ARA Green boxcar (have 8, 8 #'s).........\$20.00/each
RR-38075 CoG '37 AAR boxcar (have 3, 3 #'s).............\$20.00/each
RR-38061 CGW '37 AAR boxcar (have 9, 5 #'s).............\$20.00/each

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

USRA Composite Gon Question

rgs0554

I had originally thought that the USRA composite gondola
was built only in a style with eight drop bottom doors (modeled
with the HO kit offered by Intermountain). I recently acquired a
copy of the September 1990 RMC containing an article by Martin
Lofton about modeling the rebuilt USRA gondolas of the Frisco
Line. Martin states that all of the USRA gons aned later clones
obtained by the Frisco were solid bottom gondolas. My question
is: Were there any differences other the drop door actuating
mechanism itself between solid bottom and drop bottom USRA
gondolas? Regards, Don Smith

Cocoa Beach

Westerfield <westerfield@...>

We expect to have the new Frisco sawtooth box car at the meet. Many will remember the Ulrich version from many years ago. We will have both original and modernized versions, covering 4 lettering styles.

As usual, if you want us to bring any older kits let us know by Friday. - Al Westerfield

 138221 - 138240 of 197042