Date   

Re: Builder's paint

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bruce Smith (likely with tongue deeply in cheek) wrote:
I suppose I ought to call it "greywash" <G>. Was this a regular
paint, or was it temporary and washed off the car after the photo
was taken? I ask in part because multiple layers of paint right off
the bat might change the Lt Weight of the car compared to cars that
did not get this paint.

Yes, it was washed off, lettering and all, and no, it would
certainly not affect light weight to the nearest 100 pounds. If you
want to make a quick computation of the weight of a paint layer over
the whole car, feel free. I've done this in the past when
attempting to determine how much lead there would be in such layers
of lead-base paints.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
According to John Corns, on page 117 of "The Wheeling and Lake Erie
Volume 2" the W&LE had a few gons in builders' paint ("white lead
with black lettering") that "remarkably" were used to haul coal, "as
verified by photographs". The first of these gons were built in Nov.
1946.
Please note that neither I nor the author think this was anything
close to common, indeed, this may be a single isolated incident.
Don't try this at home! However, I thought it would be interesting
to add to the discussion. I can't imagine how these would look after
a few loads of coal... I wonder what would have caused this unusual
occurance? A severe gon shortage?
Dean Payne


Re: UP #9100-9229 and RI #20000-84 series 40' express boxcar conversion info request #9100-9229 #20000-84

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stefan Lerche' wrote:
"In particular I am interested in detail/modelling information or
photos of UP 40' DD steel ACR boxcar series #9100-9229 and Rock Island
40' SD steel boxcar series #20000-20050, 20060-84."

A couple more comments:

- Prototype photos of both UP and RI cars appeared in Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia 6 (unfortunately out of print).

- Sunshine 31.10 models the Rock Island cars.

- Use the Intermountain Modified 1937 AAR boxcar kit (Stock No. 40899)
as a starting point if you can't get the Sunshine kit.


Ben Hom


Re: UP #9100-9229 and RI #20000-84 series 40' express boxcar conversion info request #9100-9229 #20000-84

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stefan Lerche' wrote:
"In particular I am interested in detail/modelling information or
photos of UP 40' DD steel ACR boxcar series #9100-9229 and Rock Island
40' SD steel boxcar series #20000-20050, 20060-84."

An HO scale kitbashing article for the UP cars by Gary Binder and Steve
Orth appeared in Vol 15 No 3 (Summer 2001) issue of the UPHS
Streamliner, including an equipment diagram and prototype photos. The
base kit used was the Intermountain R-40-10 with underframe
modifications, Tichy Youngstown doors, Red Caboose rectangular panel
roof, and ASF Ride Control, Symington, or Allied Full Cushion trucks.
This issue of The Streamliner is still available from the UPHS:
http://www.uphs.org/strmavail.htm


Ben Hom


Re: LV 63000 series boxcars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Dec 31, 2006, at 8:22 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I building some branchline models of the LV 63000 series boxcars. I
photographed some similar cars still in existence in Manchester NY
last
year. I am looking for information on the roofwalk. Did the LV use
Apex, or
another style and was it painted to match the car side (red) or roof
(black) or unpainted? Thanks and happy new year to all.
Brian,
When new the LV 63000-63999 series cars received black car cement on
their roofs. An overhead builder's photo shows this as well as Apex
running boards that were partially sprayed with the black car cement.
It's obvious from this photo that Bethlehem Steel Co. didn't pay
particular attention to ensure the running boards were entirely black.
I don't know for sure if all 1,000 cars received Apex running boards,
but car 63000 had Apex as did 63542. A good photo of the latter car
number is available from Bob's Photo, taken 11-13-54. Apex brake steps
were also used.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


UP #9100-9229 and RI #20000-84 series 40' express boxcar conversion info request #9100-9229 #20000-84

oliver
 

I have been reading Cape and McKeen's nicely done "The Ghost Trains of
the SP's Overland Route: Train Nos. 21-22,Mail, 1947-67" which focuses
on this lesser known SP mail train operating Oakland-Ogden.

The author's mention that various RR's boxcars were converted to
express boxcars for mail storage etc. service and that SP trainmen
were on the lookout for such cars as they resulted in a higher pay
rate for the crew when found in the train's consist. There is a nice
listing of such cars in the book.

In particular I am interested in detail/modelling information or
photos of UP 40' DD steel ACR boxcar series#9100-9229 and Rock Island
40' SD steel boxcar series#20000-20050, 20060-84.

Any help would be appreciated. Happy New Year!
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC Canada


Re: ADMIN: Frt train speeds discussion

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mike, Malcolm's original query specified EARLY diseasels as well as steam. I agree that we
shouldn't be talking about Alco C424s, but a brace of FAs might well be prior to 1960.

SGL (risking another jail term, I suppose. Does it help that I was just drooling over a color photo
of an ERIE USRA Heavy 2-10-2?)

OK, guys. Frt train speeds seem as much within scope as
discussion about the
travels, population and carrying habits of their cars...Which
has been
accepted as in scope. However, that holds true only with
regard to Steam Era
frt trains. That means discussions about post 1960 frt trains
are not in
scope. Simple as that.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Other stock car uses

Lee Thwaits <lthwaits@...>
 

In the 40's and 50's SP stock cars were used to move cans from can companies to canneries in Calif. The stock cars were steam cleaned and lined with heavy kraft paper and cans were stacked on their sides. Unloaded by high school kids using an all wood contrivance consisting of a handle on a crosspiece with a with a number of heavy wood dowels stuck in it.

Lee Thwaits


ADMIN: Frt train speeds discussion

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

OK, guys. Frt train speeds seem as much within scope as discussion about the travels, population and carrying habits of their cars...Which has been accepted as in scope. However, that holds true only with regard to Steam Era frt trains. That means discussions about post 1960 frt trains are not in scope. Simple as that.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Freight train speed on grades - early diesel era

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Ned Carey" <nedspam@...> wrote:

Mike,

Can you explain in layman's terms what you mean by "balancing speed"?
Mike used the term "balancing speed" several times, and in some
instances, it is not the exact correct term he was looking for.
However, to answer your specific question, the balancing speed of a
diesel or straight electric locomotive is the speed where the total of
train resistance and the counter electromotive forces generated by the
motors themselves equals the amount of power the motors put out; that
is the forces balance, and the locomotive can go no faster. It is
different from top speed in that top or maximum speed usually assumes
the locomotive alone; balancing speed takes into account the load it
is pulling. This of course can vary widely depending on how much train
is tied onto the locomotive's tail, and also with gradient and curvature.

It also varies with the counter electromotive force, or "back EMF" as
it is sometimes called. This is the result of the motors acting like
generators, even as they are supplying power as motors, and the effect
increases with the speed. This is the basis for the occasional story
where some engineer could get just a little bit more speed on a
downgrade by centering the reverse, thus removing the back EMF from
the equation. One of the guys on the Railway Preservation News board
has a quote in his signature block from an Alco manual that at least
acknowledges the phenomena:

"Do not operate the locomotive faster than 120 MPH, either with or
without power to the traction wheels". ALCO Bulletin 302, DL-109
Operating Instructions"

And now, to get this back on topic, if you DO operate the locomotive
faster than 120 MPH, you turn the traction motors into rats nests of
copper scrap, which can be hauled away in steam era freightcars,
specifically gondolas :-)


Dennis


history on flatcars

birdbiz2003 <birdbiz2003@...>
 

Has anyone done a model of a famous steam locomotive of the 19th
century being transported via flatcar to the 1927 Fair of the Iron
Horse to the B & O comlex in Baltimore or one of the late 1930's fairs
or the 1948 fair. A lot of these carload were interchanged several
times and there is a bunch of photos available on the subject
especially the Great Northern's WM Crooks on a flatcar in the 1900 to
1950 era.


Sincerely,

Tyler Turpin


LV 63000 series boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I building some branchline models of the LV 63000 series boxcars. I
photographed some similar cars still in existence in Manchester NY last
year. I am looking for information on the roofwalk. Did the LV use Apex, or
another style and was it painted to match the car side (red) or roof
(black) or unpainted? Thanks and happy new year to all.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Stock cars from different roads

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 31, 2006, at 2:04 PM, Steve Sandifer wrote:

Based on stock records I have from the San Bernardino Feeding station, 1943 and 1949.
Car IDs included:
Jan-Feb 1943 Oct-Nov 1945
127 50% ATSF
47% 123
72 28% UP 23% 61
9 4% SP 8% 22
5 2% TNO 4% 10
0 GN 5% 12

Others, 1943: ASEX (Armour)(6), CBQ (6), CDX (11), CNW (7), GASX (2), MILW (1), MSCH (1), PRR (1), RI (6), SLSX (1)

Others, 1945: ASEX (Armour)(2), B&O (1), CBQ (4), CDX (2), CNW (2), LN (1), MILW (2), MKT (2), MP (3), NcStL (1), NP (4), NYC (1), PRR (1), RI (4), SLSX (1), TP (1).
This is very interesting data. However, I didn't cite it in my previous message on this subject because traffic and car utilization during WW II were different, owing to wartime conditions, than in either the prewar or postwar years.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: stock cars from different roads

armprem
 

It was listed as empty.A.Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] stock cars from different roads


Is it known for certain that this CNW stock car was indeed loaded with . . .stock?

SGL


After examining hundreds of switchlists certain patterns emerge.Most
stock cars were from regional roads.The distance from CNW
territory to the
area served by the Rutland would require many stops for
watering and resting
the livestock.If the presence of CNW stock cars were more
common,I would not
have considered it a rarity.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@auburn.edu
<mailto:smithbf%40auburn.edu> >
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] stock cars from different roads

On Sun, December 31, 2006 9:33 am, A. Premo wrote:
On the Rutland the following stock cars were frequently
seen: CN ,NYC
.Others seen less often were B&M ,and an anomaly a CNW.I
am still trying
to figure that one out.
Armand Premo
Armand,

Why do you consider C&NW an anomaly? Seems pretty
reasonable to me. Most
likely loaded in Chicago or environs and shipped east.
Yeah, you wouldn't
see a lot of them, but an occasional car seems within believability.

While stock cars may not be in a "national pool", I would
not expect them
to conform to the home and connecting roads only dogma
either. Rather,
they are sort of like gons, in that rationality dominates,
but there is
the possibility for cars to be seen far from home. In
addition, there is
the potential for cargos other than stock to be moved in
these cars in the
off-season.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn AL




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Re: Freight train speed on grades - early diesel era

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Ned,

"Track Speed" means the maximum authorized speed for a particular train
configuration at a particular location. In many cases the areas that have
the grades also have the curves to the speed is lower, even for trains going
downhill. On the really steep grades the descending track speed is usually
20 mph. This is the speed where dynamic brakes tend to work the best.

On my territory "Track Speed" is:

79 MPH = Passenger trains with Amtrak locomotives.
70 MPH = Any train not otherwise restricted.
60 MPH = Any train over 80 TOB, (Tons Per Operative Brake).
55 MPH = Any train that includes empty cars, (This includes any
non-articulated Intermodal equipment with an empty well.)
45 MPH = Any train over 100 TOB.

There are other restrictions based on curves and special considerations. For
example the Gassman Coulee bridge is 35 MPH.
Since it is upgrade Westbound few trains would be going faster than that
anyway. The signal system is also set up that in order for the system to
allow a train into that track segment it must have the signal to leave. That
reduces the possibility of having a train stopped on the bridge.

Please remember that, as a whole, average train speeds are in the 20 to 25
MPH range on the entire system.

Russ


>If the track speed was 10, then that's all they did.

What do you mean by track speed? Do you mean the railroads speed
restriction
for that area? That seems slow to me if it is not a yard or station or
something like that. It seems odd to me that the railroad would
artificially
limit speed that low on a grade.

Ned Carey





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New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

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Uploaded by : freightcarguy <guycwilber@aol.com>
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Re: Stock cars from different roads

Steve SANDIFER
 

Based on stock records I have from the San Bernardino Feeding station, 1943 and 1949.
Car IDs included:
Jan-Feb 1943 Oct-Nov 1945
127 50% ATSF
47% 123
72 28% UP 23% 61
9 4% SP 8% 22
5 2% TNO 4% 10
0 GN 5% 12

Others, 1943: ASEX (Armour)(6), CBQ (6), CDX (11), CNW (7), GASX (2), MILW (1), MSCH (1), PRR (1), RI (6), SLSX (1)

Others, 1945: ASEX (Armour)(2), B&O (1), CBQ (4), CDX (2), CNW (2), LN (1), MILW (2), MKT (2), MP (3), NcStL (1), NP (4), NYC (1), PRR (1), RI (4), SLSX (1), TP (1).

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@swcentral.org
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Calvert
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:59 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Stock cars from different roads


Ed Lines posted
"Anyone know of a location where stock cars from several different
railroads could be found?"
and got good responses about Eastern roads.

How about in the West e.g. in California?
Were stock cars from Eastern roads seen there?

Mike Calvert


Re: Freight train speed on grades - early diesel era

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

versus steam which acheived its greatest efficiency the faster it ran,
ideally at its balancing speed (function of driver size, stroke, cut-off and
counter-balancing).

Mike,

Can you explain in layman's terms what you mean by "balancing speed"?

If the track speed was 10, then that's all they did.
What do you mean by track speed? Do you mean the railroads speed restriction for that area? That seems slow to me if it is not a yard or station or something like that. It seems odd to me that the railroad would artificially limit speed that low on a grade.

Ned Carey


Re: More Resin Kits for Sale

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pierreoliver2003" <pierre.oliver@...>
wrote:

Actually, Diamond Scale is very much still around. And still making
the best turntables and accessories.
http://www.diamond-scale.com/
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "wabash2813" <vbaird@> wrote:

Thanks to any of you that responded so far. The kits seem to be
selling about as fast as I can list them. I just added a few
more
including a Pennsy X-31. Also have an HO scale Diamond Scale 90
foot
turntable kit listed still in its original box. I don't beleive
Diamond scale is around any more.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZvic44QQhtZ-1


Thanks again
Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indinaa


Re: More Resin Kits for Sale

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

Thanks for the correction. I couldn't find them on the internet
under Diamond Scale Construction as they were listed in the Walthers
Catalog up until 1999. From what I've heard there was a name and
ownership change. If you go to the website the turntables are still
availabe but I didn't see any prices. I guess you have to contact
them? But I'm sure my reserve on this untouched kit is well below
retail with shipping. It appears that not all DS kits are available.
I did not see their Ogle coaling station on the site, for example. I
am looking for the Ogle coaling station kit.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pierreoliver2003" <pierre.oliver@...>
wrote:

Actually, Diamond Scale is very much still around. And still making
the best turntables and accessories.
http://www.diamond-scale.com/
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "wabash2813" <vbaird@> wrote:

Thanks to any of you that responded so far. The kits seem to be
selling about as fast as I can list them. I just added a few
more
including a Pennsy X-31. Also have an HO scale Diamond Scale 90
foot
turntable kit listed still in its original box. I don't beleive
Diamond scale is around any more.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZvic44QQhtZ-1


Thanks again
Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indinaa


Re: Stock cars from different roads

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 31, 2006, at 10:22 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Curiously, I have no photos in southern or central California
showing a WP stock car.
I do; it was at Los Angeles in 1947.

Richard Hendrickson

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