Date   

And now for something completely different - Rabey

Schuyler Larrabee
 

<http://lists.elhts.org/listthumb.cgi?erielack-01-14-07>

What would the cognoscenti on this list say to the end of the DL&W box shown in this photo?

Click on the thumbnail you see when clicking on the link.

The, um, "motive power" in this shot has been explained thusly:

This was the 'truck switcher' of 1940. Thomas Townsend Taber III's
MORRISTOWN & ERIE RAILROAD covers it on page 46, with a photo on 47.

Paraphrasing from Taber:
Designed by W. W. Rabey, President of the Mound City & Western (MC&W)
Railroad in South Dakota, it used a rectangular frame mounted on two
freight car trucks to encircle a highway truck. The frame was opened
to let the truck in or out, and guided it on the rails. The first
version was used on the MC&W from 1935 until the line was abandoned
in 1940. A newer version came to the M&E on October 9, 1940. Mack
truck was ballasted with four tons of sand and pulled 100 ton M&E
steam engine #9 up the 4% grade (presumably the lead to the DL&W).
It then ran to Essex Fells and Rabey proclaimed it ideal for light
work on the M&E, with a 100 ton maximum load. The M&E tested it
again the following April, then took it out of service and stored it
(the frame and trucks) at Morristown. It worked well on dry track
but could not handle more than two cars in wet or snowy weather. The
frame and trucks were removed in 1946, while the Mack had gone back
to the highway after the tests.

-Gary Kazin


Posted to STMFC by SGL
I included "Rabey" for the sake of future archive searches.


Ted Culotta

Ed Ursem <nprybiged@...>
 

Ted ,

Please contact me off list.

Thanks

Ed Ursem
nprybiged@...


Re: Tichy Kit

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

In Mainline Modeler, August 2003 issue, is a six page article by Jeffrey M. Koeller about the C&NW USRA SS box cars. Included is an isometric cut-a-way drawing that "was originally issued as a parts guide". This drawing shows correct features, such as proper end sill, roof details and KC brake equipment. This is "a great article".

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: <tgregmrtn@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tichy Kit


There was a great article in Mainline Modeler on the prototype for this car
as well and it included the drawings. A must have fir this car.
Greg Martin


Re: Tichy Kit

Rob Adams
 

Flag me 15 yards for piling on, but I've got to jump in with Richard and Ben in warning modelers about some of the details in the MM article. In addition to relying on the CBC arrangement drawings, another unfortunate error is the Ann Arbor stenciling arrangement on the drawing. The arrangement of the road name lettering is incorrect. On the AA's USRA cars, both N's in ANN, and the O and R in ARBOR should be to the right of the last vertical framing member. The arrangement illustrated in the article is correct for the AA's dimensionally similar cars with Hutchins ends and roof built by Standard Tank in 1924, but WRONG for the USRA cars. I have no idea whether the MM material is the culprit, but Westerfield's kit instructions also have the lettering wrong on the built-up model. Several photos and a stenciling diagram for the AA cars appear in Volume 2 of Prototype Railroad Modeling.

Regards, Rob Adams



Richard Hendrickson wrote:


On Jan 14, 2007, at 12:51 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
"There was a great article in Mainline Modeler on the prototype for
this car as well and it included the drawings. A must have for this
car."
I strongly disagree with Greg - the Lane article is a must have; this
article is a nice to have, but not to be relied upon without
independent verification using photos of specific prototypes.
I'm with Ben on this one. The MM article was very poorly researched,
many of the lettering diagrams were totally incorrect, and, IIRC, the
scale drawings were wrong in the same way that other drawings (and
models) of these cars have been wrong in following the USRA general
arrangement drawings published in the Car Builders' Cyclopedias, which
did not accurately represent the cars as actually built. Some modelers
(and model manufacturers) have tended to regard Mainline Modeler as a
sort of researcher's Rosetta stone owing to its frequent inclusion of
scale drawings, but drawings are only helpful if they're accurate, and
in any case photographic evidence is essential to show what actually
came out of the car shops, as opposed to what the designers intended.
Not to mention the fact that many of these cars were modified in
various ways over the years, and only photos from the era you model
will show you what they looked like at that time.

Richard Hendrickson

_ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/59325;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NHYyODQ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzU5MzQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODgxMDg1NQR0cGNJZAM1OTMyNQ--> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaWppcmtlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzU5MzQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODgxMDg1NQ--?act=reply&messageNum=59344> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTY3dHZjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODgxMDg1NQ-->
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--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@...
Modeling the CB&Q RR's Keokuk & Western branch, along with connecting Wabash and CRI&P operations, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>


Re: And now for something completely different - Rabey

MDelvec952
 

In a message dated 1/14/2007 9:41:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
b.hom@... writes:

The Lackawanna did the same thing to cars rebuilt from DS cars with
7/8 Murphy ends, inserting a blank panel between the corrugated
panels (c.f. Sirman collection photo of DL&W 11203 & 11259 at Paris,
Ontario, May 1948).



Yes, this is one of the DL&W rebuids. Lackawanna did a curious thing --
the wooden autoboxes were rebuilt into steel-sided house cars, and the wooden
house cars were rebuilt into steel-sided autocars. The wooden house cars
included many USRA DS boxcars, and some of the 7/8 ended 45000-series DS cars
represented by the F&C kit. The USRA Murphy ends on the autocars were stretched
as shown in the M&E photo. The 7/8 ended house cars were also stretched, some
with a rib or two. One of the Car Builder Cycs has a two-page article about
the DL&W rebuild program, complete with photos. Would sure like to come up
with that collection of pictures today. The DL&W did a lot of car recycling
to keep its massive Keyser Valley Shops busy during the depression. The
700-car USRA DS boxcars also became piggyback flats and hopper cars, steam tenders
became snowplows and cabooses, etc.

I went through what was left of the the Car Cyc files when I worked at
Simmons-Boardman, and very little remained, enough to fill a manilla fold about as
thick as your pinky. All of the rest and literally a ton of books were
peddled during a downsizing for an office move. I have purchased some items from
that collection at swap meets and seen a photo here and there in private
collections, but I hope the bulk of that collection turns up somewhere.

Mike Del Vecchio


Re: Tichy Kit

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 14, 2007, at 12:51 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
"There was a great article in Mainline Modeler on the prototype for
this car as well and it included the drawings. A must have for this
car."
I strongly disagree with Greg - the Lane article is a must have; this
article is a nice to have, but not to be relied upon without
independent verification using photos of specific prototypes.
I'm with Ben on this one. The MM article was very poorly researched, many of the lettering diagrams were totally incorrect, and, IIRC, the scale drawings were wrong in the same way that other drawings (and models) of these cars have been wrong in following the USRA general arrangement drawings published in the Car Builders' Cyclopedias, which did not accurately represent the cars as actually built. Some modelers (and model manufacturers) have tended to regard Mainline Modeler as a sort of researcher's Rosetta stone owing to its frequent inclusion of scale drawings, but drawings are only helpful if they're accurate, and in any case photographic evidence is essential to show what actually came out of the car shops, as opposed to what the designers intended. Not to mention the fact that many of these cars were modified in various ways over the years, and only photos from the era you model will show you what they looked like at that time.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: GRAMPS tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 14, 2007, at 1:02 PM, Frank Pearsall wrote:

Finally, there was another message yesterday that said: “There seems
to be some confusion about the origin of these cars. I’ve even had
narrow gauge fanatics express surprise that...were standard gauge
cars...”

Unfortunate and condescending choice of words. As a “narrow gauger”
of over 50 years, I would never come on this list and refer to people
as “standard gauge fanatics.” Further, I’ve never talked to any
narrow gauger that didn’t know the GRAMPS tank cars were originally
standard gauge cars. Narrow gaugers are dedicated researchers too.
In researching this message, I had originally typed four pages. I
boiled it down to spare us all...
Narrow gaugers are indeed dedicated researchers, and some of them were
carrying out in-depth prototype research years before most of us began
researching the history of standard gauge freight cars. Turns out some
of them have thin skins, as well. My choice of "fanatics" was not
intended to be condescending, and I'm sorry that Frank interpreted it
as such. I've been called a freight car fanatic more than once, and it
never occurred to me to take offense. In any case, there are narrow
gauge, uh, devotees who have such tunnel vision that their knowledge of
standard gauge freight cars is (I'm trying to choose my words carefully
here) very limited. I have no problem with that (my knowledge of
narrow gauge RRs is, after all, very limited) except when, as in the
instance cited, they confidently make assertions I know to be wrong.
And now, since I have a rather low tolerance for "quaint," can we get
back to discussing standard gauge steam era freight cars?

Richard Hendrickson


GRAMPS tank cars

Frank Pearsall
 

Narrow gauge UTLX and GRAMPS tank cars

To look at these cars, please step back and see the overall picture.
Originally, between 60 to 66 cars, the Van Dyke standard gauge cars
were of 1908 and 1912 vintage. They were rebuilt to narrow gauge in
two styles, narrow framed and frameless.

The frameless cars were of 6,500 gallon capacity. Sills were not
used. The bottom tank plate was very heavy with the draft gear
riveted to it. Trucks used would be another large message.

The GRAMPS cars were numbered 11034 to 11058. Number 11034 was a Type
O Heater Car; numbers 11035 to 11040 were Type R; numbers 11041 to
11049, Type C; numbers 11050 to 11056, Type D and numbers 11057 and
11058, Type J. These cars were lettered GRAMPS before 1940. The
GRAMPS cars did not have side ladders.

As stated in my message to Schuyler Larrabee yesterday, these cars
were named after Lafayette Gramps Hughes. He owned an oil refinery
in Alamosa (closed 1964). He refined oil from fields in Chama, N.M.
The story that has circulated for years is his grandchildren wanted
to be able to identify his cars.

Surprisingly, plans for these cars have not appeared in the Narrow
Gauge & Short Line Gazette magazine. Ken Pruitt plans drawn in
quarter-inch of UTLX and GRAMPS cars are available from the
Underground Railway Press. Other UTLX car plans are available from
John Maxwell (via his son) and Carl Mulvihill. I will be happy to
provide individual addresses via private messages.

Finally, there was another message yesterday that said: There seems
to be some confusion about the origin of these cars. Ive even had
narrow gauge fanatics express surprise that...were standard gauge
cars...

Unfortunate and condescending choice of words. As a narrow gauger
of over 50 years, I would never come on this list and refer to people
as standard gauge fanatics. Further, Ive never talked to any
narrow gauger that didnt know the GRAMPS tank cars were originally
standard gauge cars. Narrow gaugers are dedicated researchers too.
In researching this message, I had originally typed four pages. I
boiled it down to spare us all...

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.


Re: Tichy Kit

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
"There was a great article in Mainline Modeler on the prototype for
this car as well and it included the drawings. A must have for this
car."

This article appeared in the July/August 1980 issue of Mainline
Modeler, and was reprinted in The Best of Mainline Modelers' Freight
Cars, Volume Two. It contains O scale drawings; builders photos of the
C&NW, PRR (after receiving new roof and doors in 1934), and NYC (after
shopping in 1941); data from the Lane article that I cited earlier
today, and photos of B&O XM2157 in company service. Unfortunately, it
also contains two pages of dubious and incorrect lettering diagrams
which are NOT to be trusted.

I strongly disagree with Greg - the Lane article is a must have; this
article is a nice to have, but not to be relied upon without
independent verification using photos of specific prototypes.


Ben Hom


Re: GRAMPS tank cars

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

Frank,

Thank you for the info, I am saving it, as a "tank car fanatic" I would like to do a Standard gauge model of these cars.

Unfortunate and condescending choice of words. As a . . . I would never come on this list and refer to people
as "standard gauge fanatics."

Interesting, I don't find "Narrow gauge fanatic" the least bit condescending or insulting. I would not be the least bit insulted if you called me a "standard gauge fanatics." or "Western Maryland fanatic"

Ned Carey


Re: Tichy Kit

Greg Martin
 

Actually,

I was thinking of the article on the re-built PMcKY car, and I agree with
Ben the Lane article is a must have for the as built USRA car.

Greg Martin





On Jan 14, 2007, at 12:51 PM, benjaminfrank_On Jan 14,

Greg Martin wrote:
"There was a great article in Mainline Modeler on the prototype for
this car as well and it included the drawings. A must have for this
car."
I strongly disagree with Greg - the Lane article is a must have; this
article is a nice to have, but not to be relied upon without
independent verification using photos of specific prototypes.
I'm with Ben on this one. The MM article was very poorly researched,
many of the lettering diagrams were totally incorrect, and, IIRC, the
scale drawings were wrong in the same way that other drawings (and
models) of these cars have been wrong in following the USRA general
arrangement drawings published in the Car Builders' Cyclopedias, which
did not accurately represent the cars as actually built. Some modelers
(and model manufacturers) have tended to regard Mainline Modeler as a
sort of researcher's Rosetta stone owing to its frequent inclusion of
scale drawings, but drawings are only helpful if they're accurate, and
in any case photographic evidence is essential to show what actually
came out of the car shops, as opposed to what the designers intended.
Not to mention the fact that many of these cars were modified in
various ways over the years, and only photos from the era you model
will show you what they looked like at that time.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Tichy Kit

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill McCoy asked:
"Is there a resource that lists who had these cars as Tichy modeled
them?"

Rob Adams replied:
"As for potential candiates for the Tichy #4026 USRA SS box, see the
July 2004 issue of RMC for more information about the original USRA
single sheathed cars. Significant numbers were rostered by the PRR,
CMStP&P and C&NW. Other roads which owned the USRA single-sheathed
cars included the AA, B&O, C&O, CNJ, Clinchfield, D&H, Erie, Maine
Central, MC, NYC, N&W, PMcK&Y, RF&P, SP, and WM. I've probably
missed some."

The railroads allocated the USRA Specification 1001-B 50-ton SS
boxcars were AA, AB&A (later ACL), B&O, CC&O (Clinchfield), CNJ, C&O,
C&NW, CMStP&P, D&H, Erie, GA, MEC, MC, NYC, N&W, PRR (NYP&N, LIRR,
GR&I, Lines West), P&R (later RDG), PMcK&Y, RF&P (Washington
Southern), WM. The basic reference for this and all other USRA
freight cars is James E. Lane's "USRA Freight Cars: An Experiment in
Standardzation" in The Railway & Locomotive Historical Society
Railroad History No. 128, Spring 1973. This article has very few
photos, but tells the story behind these cars, and includes
comprehensive tables showing not only the final allocations of these
cars, but the original allocations as well. This publication is long
out of print, but is fairly common on the secondary market.

Westerfield's online catalog also lists the variations of these cars:
http://www.westerfield.biz/cg270001.htm


Ben Hom


Proto Southern 50' DD steel boxcars in 42xxx series

oliver
 

I didn't get a bite when I first asked about this, so here goes again:
I'm looking for some mid-1950s prototype information for the Proto
2000 50'DD steel boxcars factory lettered in the Southern 42xxx series.
I have been building a couple of these kits that I received for
Christmas and was wondering if the kit trucks, roofwalk and brake
details are correct? Was the roof and end color same as the sides?

thanks
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC Canada


Re: Tichy Kit

Rob Adams
 

Bill;

Be careful here. Tichy makes two different kits to represent rebuilds of the USRA cars and they are vastly different. Specifically, kit #4028 and #4032.

Kit 4028, can be used to accurately model at least two groups of cars from NYC subsidiary roads. The P&LE has already been mentioned. It is also accurate for rebuilds from the PMcK&Y, which were later absorbed into the P&LE roster. A fastidious modeler may prefer to replace the Tichy raised panel roof with a more accurate version from Intermountain or Red Caboose (from their 1937 AAR box car models). These cars are dimensionally different from their USRA donors, with interior height increased, and new 8 panel steel sheathing. There is no external truss bracing on the car side. These cars have been the focus of at least a couple of modeling articles, including one by Ted Culotta in Railroad Model Craftsman (RMC) as part of his Essential Freight Cars series. He covers several enhancements made to the Tichy kit.

The 4028 kit can also serve as the basis for other rebuilds, and Sunshine has produced a mini-kit with parts to model a large group of Wabash rebuilds which derived from double sheathed automobile box cars. These cars have different ends and a fishbelly center sill, which are supplied in the Sunshine's kit. Vulcan trucks are also called for in this application. More information about the prototypes can be found in Volume 1 of Prototype Railroad Modeling available at <http://www.speedwitch.com> My understanding is that Volume 3 of PRM will have modeling information.

Kit 4032 is intended to represent the Georgia RR car steel sheathed rebuild which retains the original exterior truss bracing. The conversions applied at least a couple of types of roofs over the course of the rebuilding program. Ted's Georgia RR rebuild has a radial roof, which is its primary difference from the 4032 kit. I believe the Tichy kit can be easily modified to represent the other roof variation (flat steel plate). This kit is not appropriate for the P&LE cars.

As for potential candiates for the Tichy #4026 USRA SS box, see the July 2004 issue of RMC for more information about the original USRA single sheathed cars. Significant numbers were rostered by the PRR, CMStP&P and C&NW. Other roads which owned the USRA single-sheathed cars included the AA, B&O, C&O, CNJ, Clinchfield, D&H, Erie, Maine Central, MC, NYC, N&W, PMcK&Y, RF&P, SP, and WM. I've probably missed some.

Kind regards, Rob Adams



Bill McCoy wrote:


While on this subject, thanks for the info about the PLE prototype.
Ted's new kit with the GARR correct roof left my rebuild with out a
prototype.

On this same subject, how about the wood sided version? Is there a
resource that lists who had these cars as Tichy modeled them?

Bill McCoy
Jax

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "Fred Freitas" <prrinvt@...> wrote:

Learned members,

Found a pair of Tichy #4028----USRA SS steel rebuild
kits in a to do box. The sides are 4 panel, and the ends are 5-5-5.
Does anyone know what prototypes are correct for these kits? TIA

Fred Freitas
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/59325;_ylc=X3oDMTM2amNxdWRuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzU5MzM0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODc4ODM2OQR0cGNJZAM1OTMyNQ--> <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcGk1cWl1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTY4Nzg4MzY5> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdTlqajA2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTY4Nzg4MzY5> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@...
Modeling the CB&Q RR's Keokuk & Western branch, along with connecting Wabash and CRI&P operations, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>


Re: Pennzoil tankers? (Now Gramps)

coronadoscalemodels
 

In over 40 years in the narrow gauge business, we have found no narrow
gauge fanatics express surprise that the Gramps cars were once standard
gauge. But I suppose there could be some. On the contray we have
found some standard gauge fanatics express surprise that they were once
standard gauge and that there were two types of cars converted. Only 7
cars came from Class V while the rest came from Class VV. Only the
location of the brake cylinder on the Class V had to be moved in order
to clear the narrow gauge wheels. All of the cars from the Class VV
kept the disconnected K brakes that still could clear the narrow gauge
wheels. Cars used in narrow gauge service included cars with Type C,D,J
and R heaters. If a standard gauge modeler wishes to be accurate, he
should study the cars used on the D&RGW narrow gauge. Until 1947, all
cars still used their standard gauge UTLX numbers.

We have noticed some HO modelers who convert the HOn3 cars to standard
gauge don't bother to change the single K brake cylinder back to it's
original location. Original UTLX standard gauge drawings are shown in
the R/Robb "Narrow Gauge Pictorial" Vol. IV.

Stan Schwedler


Re: Tichy Kit

Greg Martin
 

There was a great article in Mainline Modeler on the prototype for this car
as well and it included the drawings. A must have fir this car.

Greg Martin


Re: Tichy Kit

Bill McCoy
 

While on this subject, thanks for the info about the PLE prototype.
Ted's new kit with the GARR correct roof left my rebuild with out a
prototype.

On this same subject, how about the wood sided version? Is there a
resource that lists who had these cars as Tichy modeled them?

Bill McCoy
Jax

--- In STMFC@..., "Fred Freitas" <prrinvt@...> wrote:

Learned members,

Found a pair of Tichy #4028----USRA SS steel rebuild
kits in a to do box. The sides are 4 panel, and the ends are 5-5-5.
Does anyone know what prototypes are correct for these kits? TIA

Fred Freitas


Running boards for GTW 50ft AAR boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm working on a model of a Grand Trunk Western 50ft AAR single door
boxcar, using a Proto 2000 model. I don't know the complete number
series, but it would be in the 595100-595450 range, and the cars were
built by Pressed Steel Car in January and February 1946. I've located a
builder's photo that shows most of the details I need to see, but not
the running boards. Does anyone know what sort of running boards these
cars had? The photo may indicate wooden running boards, but it is very
hard to tell.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Pennzoil tankers?

Frank Pearsall
 

SGL:

Gramps tank cars were named after Lafayette "Gramps" Hughes. He owned an oil refinery in Alamosa. He leased the cars from UTLX.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Jan 13, 2007, at 11:09 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:



Asking *doesn't* hurt. If one may mention narrow gauge for a moment,
I believe the "GRAMPS" tank cars
OK, asking doesn't hurt, it says . . .

So, here's a question I've wondered about for a long time: Who (or what, I s'pose) was "GRAMPS?" A
person, a company, what? Colorado NG is one of those things I've had approach/avoidance about for
years.

SGL




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Pennzoil tankers?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 13, 2007, at 5:43 AM, al_brown03 wrote:

I believe the "GRAMPS" tank cars that ran out of Chama, N.Mex., were
also lessee-stencilled UTLX cars. There's a photo on the Cumbres &
Toltec web site, and FWIW numerous models exist. At least some of
these cars were originally standard gauge, though I don't think they
were lettered "GRAMPS" until after conversion to narrow gauge.
There seems to be some confusion about the origin of these cars. I've even had narrow gauge fanatics express surprise that there were standard gauge cars of the same design, assuming that they were built new as narrow gauge cars. In fact, they were standard gauge UTL class V "Van Dyke" frameless tank cars which UTL converted to narrow gauge ca. 1938 by changing the trucks, couplers, and air brake equipment. And though some of them got the billboard "Gramps" stenciling after conversion to narrow gauge, that lettering was never applied to standard gauge cars.

Richard Hendrickson

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