Date   

Re: Ancient photos in color

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
For myself, I see nothing different between colorizing a photo and colorizing a plastic or resin model. The issues of accuracy by the artist and misperceptions by the viewer are common to both "media". Other than expecting everything to be labeled "Artistic Interpretation of Color" what can you do other than be doubtful and always ask some questions.
Ah, but we build models from authoritative historical sources: often photographs. Of course we have to interpret coloration for model sizes and lighting, but many are accustomed to seeing a photo as "authentic" in some sense. As we have discussed here more than once, time of day, season, cloud cover, and angle of view strongly affect the tonal values of color photographs, but at least they are photos of actual colored objects. A colorized photo is distinctly different.
When I lived in England for a year, I attended the British Region NMRA convention, and happened to win one of the door prizes. It was a very nice water color of a Santa Fe passenger train ascending Cajon Pass, with beautifully rendered steam and smoke. But there was one problem: the artist had portrayed the Santa Fe passenger cars in tuscan--not knowing any better. How different is the colorization of, say, 1900-era freight cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Editorial: Man vs. Machine

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

This thought-provoking editorial is posted on a Scale Modeling
website, but its premise certainly applies to the study of steam-era
freight cars:
http://modelingmadness.com/stanseditorial.htm


Ben Hom


Re: Various

 

With Photoshop, when you look at a photo you will never know
if it is the original or not.
If it's been dodged or otherwise darkroom altered, you probably wouldn't
know either if it was done by someone skillful. The same is true of any
photo manipulation program. Life is full of little lies.

Dan Stinson
Helena, Montana


Re: Various

ljack70117@...
 

With Photoshop, when you look at a photo you will never know if it is the original or not.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Jan 16, 2007, at 10:43 AM, James Eckman wrote:

Posted by: "Tony Thompson"

I sure hope this is not a trend. Otherwise we will soon have a
whole bunch of bogus "paint" colors out there, and especially with the
uncritical way many folks seem to use the Internet, accuracy will be
out the window.
Ted Turner, old movies and the crayon brigade rides again ;) A computer
screen at best will give you a difference between colors unless it has
been very carefully calibrated. On the other hand I enjoy looking at
these colorized photos and it's easy enough to turn back to black and
white or in some case the author has provided the link to the original.

OTOH, many of
them seem to value "quaint" and "about to collapse" appearance over all
else, as the NG&SL Gazette has amply documented over the years, and
most standard-gauge fanatics find that their teeth ache when viewing an
entire car fleet so modeled.
I entered two versions of the exact same car that I had scratchbuilt
into the local NMRA meet. One was really ratty looking and heavily
weathered and the other one was very lightly weathered with a fairly new
appearance. The ratty car won first place and garnered about 10x the
votes of the 'new' car.

Narrow gaugers are not the only ones who like grungy cars!

I still want to know which Apple Barrel acrylic is closest to Pennsy red!

Jim Eckman



Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: End ladders for CB&Q XM-33 boxcars

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Mark,

I have sent you the end elevation for this car series.
It is best viewed at 100%.

The 21000-21299 were built with National type B trucks.
The 21300-21399 were built with Allied Full Cushion trucks.

Car series CB&Q 8500-8549 were renumbered from 21300-21349.

If there are any other drawings that would help just ask.

If the end elevation does not come thru due to file size I can
reduce it.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Heiden
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007 08:58
Subject: [STMFC] End ladders for CB&Q XM-33 boxcars


Hello everyone,

I'm working on a model of a CB&Q XM-33 50ft AAR boxcar, series CBQ
21000-21399, using the Proto 2000 single door boxcar. A prototype
photo of one of these cars can be found at:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/cbq50ftaarmain.html

I've been unable to find good photos showing the end ladders of these
cars. A broadside shot of CBQ 21000 appeared in the 1943 Car Builder's
Cyclopedia, and seems to suggest six or seven rung ladders, with a drop
grab iron making up the seventh or eighth rung. Does anyone know if
this is the case, or if the ends had eight rung ladders like the sides?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Darwing Advisory - Mainline Modeler August 2004 (PRR Class X29)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

For anyone using the subject drawing as a reference, be advised that
the called out dimension for striker to kingpin distance is
incorrect. The callout is 5' 6"; the actual distance is 5' 0". The
measured dimension off the drawing is correct; the callout is in error.

This is another example why you shouldn't depend entirely on a drawing.


Ben Hom


Re: Wabash Double Door Autocar

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:

List,

I have an Overland Models Wabash autocar I would like to paint. It
is an outside braced car that has been resheathed in steel and has
Youngtown double doors (replacement?). I believe the Wabash series is
145000-145999. Does anyone have a late 40's, early 50's photo they
can share, or point me to a book that has a photo of this car in it.
As always, any and all help is appreicated.
Paul,

These cars, built in 1926, had their wood sides replaced with steel
in 1935. The cars were numbered in the 45400 - 46001 series. The
remaining cars from this group, 45000 - 45399, and 46002 - 46999 kept
the wood sides the rest of their life. The 1955 equipment book show
the cars having either wood or steel doors. 147 of the cars received
D/F utility loaders in 1953. for package loading. 232 cars had racks
installed in 1948 for panel and engine loading. 114 cars received
racks in 1952 for station wagon panel loading. I will send you a few
scans of these cars.

Chet French
Dixon, IL
Possibly the last one to get home from Cocoa Beach


Re: Ancient photos in color

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
I sure hope this is not a trend. Otherwise we will soon have
a whole bunch of bogus "paint" colors out there, and
especially with the uncritical way many folks seem to use the
Internet, accuracy will be out the window. OTOH, the "true believers"
in the silver J&L tank cars can provide their own proof! Wow! What a
lotta fun! And after all, "Model Railroading is Fun." An
authoritative magazine use to tell us so.
I suggested he add the word "colorized" in the image and he's done so, tho
for myself the exact phrasing he used is still a bit problematic.

For myself, I see nothing different between colorizing a photo and
colorizing a plastic or resin model. The issues of accuracy by the artist
and misperceptions by the viewer are common to both "media". Other than
expecting everything to be labeled "Artistic Interpretation of Color" what
can you do other than be doubtful and always ask some questions.

Dave Nelson


Re: Various

James Eckman
 

Posted by: "Tony Thompson"
I sure hope this is not a trend. Otherwise we will soon have a
whole bunch of bogus "paint" colors out there, and especially with the
uncritical way many folks seem to use the Internet, accuracy will be
out the window.
Ted Turner, old movies and the crayon brigade rides again ;) A computer screen at best will give you a difference between colors unless it has been very carefully calibrated. On the other hand I enjoy looking at these colorized photos and it's easy enough to turn back to black and white or in some case the author has provided the link to the original.

OTOH, many of
them seem to value "quaint" and "about to collapse" appearance over all
else, as the NG&SL Gazette has amply documented over the years, and
most standard-gauge fanatics find that their teeth ache when viewing an
entire car fleet so modeled.
I entered two versions of the exact same car that I had scratchbuilt into the local NMRA meet. One was really ratty looking and heavily weathered and the other one was very lightly weathered with a fairly new appearance. The ratty car won first place and garnered about 10x the votes of the 'new' car.

Narrow gaugers are not the only ones who like grungy cars!

I still want to know which Apple Barrel acrylic is closest to Pennsy red!

Jim Eckman


Re: Pennzoil tankers? (Now Gramps)

coronadoscalemodels
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

UTL never installed AB
brakes on the Class Vs because of the difficulty involved in mounting
the AB valve and reservoir on an obsolete car with no underframe.

Richard Hendrickson

If it was so difficult to convert a Van Dyke car to AB brakes, then why
did the quaint Santa Fe car shown on page 100 of "Santa Fe Tank Cars -
Vol. Five" (by Richard Hendrickson) have AB brakes? Did the Santa Fe
puchase this loan car with them, or did they spend the time and money
themselves to convert it to AB for work train service?

P.S. I'll answer some of the questions Dennis asked later today. I'm
going through my notes now. There actually were more than 7 Class V
cars, but only 7 left before the 1947 renumbering. And the standard
gauge car on display at St.Louis is actually a Class VV as it has a
split K brake.

Stan Schwedler


End ladders for CB&Q XM-33 boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm working on a model of a CB&Q XM-33 50ft AAR boxcar, series CBQ
21000-21399, using the Proto 2000 single door boxcar. A prototype
photo of one of these cars can be found at:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/cbq50ftaarmain.html

I've been unable to find good photos showing the end ladders of these
cars. A broadside shot of CBQ 21000 appeared in the 1943 Car Builder's
Cyclopedia, and seems to suggest six or seven rung ladders, with a drop
grab iron making up the seventh or eighth rung. Does anyone know if
this is the case, or if the ends had eight rung ladders like the sides?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


IRM Pullman Library Freight Info

tedander2000
 

For those doing historical researches and detailed prototype models,
as a new member to this group, I just wish to take a moment to
introduce myself as a volunteer at the Illinois Railway Museum and
our involvement with improving the freight car portion of the Pullman
Library collection. The Library is an archive, not open to the
public, to preserve and make available as an educational nonprofit
copied portions of the Pullman Standard companies drawings and
records under our care. Currently, freight car drawings have been
grouped for access for Pullman Car Works / Michigan City for the era
1920 to early 40's and for Standard Steel Car 1903-1930. The SSC has
just been sorted for freight cars, extracted from a mass of 1000 3-
inch drawing tubes to give you an idea why it takes so long! The
Pullman freight material was sorted a year ago. Obviously there is a
charge outside the range of a teenager but we do try to be helpful in
our role of a nonprofit educational institution. My main interest is
in saving and restoring two B&M 100-year old Pullman Palace cars,
hence my involvement with the Pullman Library though being curator
sure eats up the time! Contacts off list are appreciated. I would
highly recommend getting a copy of Eric Neubauer's Pullman-Standard
Freight Car List, as it would save a lot of time and effort in
locating a collection of cars should you not have the lot number or
road, car type, date and numerical series. Bob Webber made an
informal presentation at Cocoa Beach and I hope that some of you
heard him.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson, IRM Pullman Library volunteer & curator


More items on ebay

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

I continue to clean out the train room and thanks to those that have
responded so far and paid promptly.

I'll be adding more items this week but mostly books including ones on
freight cars.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%
3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180075432256&rd=1&rd=1

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Wabash Double Door Autocar

Paul Lyons
 

List,

I have an Overland Models Wabash autocar I would like to paint. It is an outside braced car that has been resheathed in steel and has Youngtown double doors (replacement?). I believe the Wabash series is 145000-145999. Does anyone have a late 40's, early 50's photo they can share, or point me to a book that has a photo of this car in it. As always, any and all help is appreicated.

Paul Lyons

________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


Re: Pennzoil tankers? (Now Gramps)

Charles Morrill
 

I have to agree with you Richard. I looked again at a much larger enlargement (ain't computer graphics great!) and what I thought was the background showing under the tank appears now to be a portion of the center sill. Therefore, a class X as you said.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pennzoil tankers? (Now Gramps)


On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Charles Morrill wrote:

Dennis,
I can't answer your question about why only seven type V cars were
converted, but there were other standard gauge 6000 type V cars in
existance. There is the one at the museum in St Louis and I have a
photo of
a Litchfield and Madison mike with one of these cars in the background
equipped with AB brakes and AAR trucks. Unfortunately, the photo is
not
sharp enough to read the number.
I have a number of photos of the 6K gal. Class V tank cars in revenue
service, some of them dating from as late as the early 1950s.

I'll bet that the car in the photo with the L&M Mike was NOT a class V,
however, but a class X with center sill; AFAIK, UTL never installed AB
brakes on the Class Vs because of the difficulty involved in mounting
the AB valve and reservoir on an obsolete car with no underframe.

Richard Hendrickson




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Precision Scale Co PRR X28 Boxcar-Accurate Model?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jason Sanford wrote:
"I recently acquired a Precision Scale Co PRR X-28 boxcar on an
impulse buy."

NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES.


"I have uploaded some pictures of the car in the photos section."

There's a folder in the photos section, but no photos.


"Can anyone tell me if the paint scheme is correct for the mid
1940's?"

Paint schemes for this model are a moot point for the mid-1940s, as
all Class X28 1-1/2 door automobile cars were converted into Class
X28A general service boxcars during 1934-1935. The auxiliary doors
were removed and side sheathing added over the opening, creating a
car looking very much like the far more numerous Class X29 boxcars.
Spotting features differentiating a Class X28A from a Class X29 are
taller height (X28A, IH 9 ft 4 in; X29, IH 8 ft 7 in) and a narrow
panel two panels to the left of the door (a legacy of the car's
earlier life as an automobile boxcar).


"Also, does the type of door on the model date the car to a specific
period?"

Not really; the type of door is more of an indicator of which builder
built the cars. See my article on these in the June 2005 issue of
The Keystone Modeler, available on CD from the PRRT&HS.


Ben Hom


Re: Proto Southern 50' DD steel boxcars in 42xxx series

Frank Greene <fgreen01@...>
 

"stefanelaine" <stefanelaine@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I'm looking for some mid-1950s prototype information for the Proto 2000 50'DD steel boxcars factory lettered in the Southern 42xxx series. I have been building a couple of these kits that I received for Christmas and was wondering if the kit trucks, roofwalk and brake details are correct?
For lack of definitive information (the SRHA 50' boxcar book hasn't been published, yet), I'll offer the following. Cars 42000 - 42299 and end-door cars 41500 - 41549 were built by Mt. Vernon in 1944. Mt. Vernon and Pullman-Standard had built 40' boxcars for the Southern in 1942 that had the 1st application of Morton running boards on Southern cars. The Southern more or less standardized on the Morton running board in 1945 and many 40' cars (and, presumably, 50' cars) had wood running boards replaced with them through the 50s. IMHO, applying a Plano #193 Morton running board wouldn't be far fetched.

The SRHA's diagram book says 415xx and 42xxx series had Barber S-2 truck sideframes and Universal hand brakes, 415xx series had Camel doors (it doesn't specify the end-door type), and 42xxx series had Youngstown doors. The trucks are incorrect, Branchline makes a Barber S-2. The handbrake is incorrect, Kadee makes a Universal wheel.


Was the roof and end color same as the sides?
Yes, 40' boxcar roof (and presuming 50' cars would be the same), sides, ends, underframe, and truck frames were freight car brown when built.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Precision Scale Co PRR X-28 Boxcar-Accurate Model?

ogdentowebercanyon
 

I recently acquired a Precision Scale co PRR X-28 boxcar on an impulse
buy. I have uploaded some pictures of the car in the photos section.
Can anyone tell me if the paint scheme is correct for the mid 1940's?
Also, does the type of door on the model date the car to a specific
period? Thanks.

Jason


1915-era box, stock, tank and gondola cars

davemartens <davemartens@...>
 

Hi,

As someone who has been out of RR modeling for a few
years, I know how specialized the following cars are.
However, I would appreciate some advice on finding HO
scale models for the following cars:

1. 1910-20 Milw Rd (CM&St.P) stock car

2. 1910-20 Doublesheathed Milw Rd box car

3. 1910-20 Milw Rd gondola

4. 1900 doublesheathed box car

5. 1915 tank car (suitable for acid transport)

High quality resin kits are preferable, but nice
wood kits are acceptable.

thanks
Dave (davemartens@yahoo.com)


Re: Pennzoil tankers? (Now Gramps)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Charles Morrill wrote:

Dennis,
I can't answer your question about why only seven type V cars were
converted, but there were other standard gauge 6000 type V cars in
existance. There is the one at the museum in St Louis and I have a photo of
a Litchfield and Madison mike with one of these cars in the background
equipped with AB brakes and AAR trucks. Unfortunately, the photo is not
sharp enough to read the number.
I have a number of photos of the 6K gal. Class V tank cars in revenue service, some of them dating from as late as the early 1950s.

I'll bet that the car in the photo with the L&M Mike was NOT a class V, however, but a class X with center sill; AFAIK, UTL never installed AB brakes on the Class Vs because of the difficulty involved in mounting the AB valve and reservoir on an obsolete car with no underframe.

Richard Hendrickson

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