Date   

Re: Greenville gons

charles slater
 

Al the Proto 2000 measures about 9'2"




From: "Al & Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@multipro.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Greenville gons
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:11:36 -0600

OK, so now I'm getting familiar with the gons. Turns out both Erie and
Nickel Plate used them for containers. Unfortunately, the Sunshine version
is much too narrow (8'10" vs 9'6" for the prototype). Can anyone measure up
the width of a Life Like? I don't have one. Thanks.
Westerfield
_________________________________________________________________
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Re: Greenville gons

charles slater
 

Al the Proto 2000 measures about 9'2"
Charlie Slater


From: "Al & Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@multipro.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Greenville gons
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:11:36 -0600

OK, so now I'm getting familiar with the gons. Turns out both Erie and
Nickel Plate used them for containers. Unfortunately, the Sunshine version
is much too narrow (8'10" vs 9'6" for the prototype). Can anyone measure up
the width of a Life Like? I don't have one. Thanks.
Westerfield
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


Re: Greenville gons

charles slater
 

Al the Proto 2000 measures about 9'2"


From: "Al & Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@multipro.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Greenville gons
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:11:36 -0600

OK, so now I'm getting familiar with the gons. Turns out both Erie and
Nickel Plate used them for containers. Unfortunately, the Sunshine version
is much too narrow (8'10" vs 9'6" for the prototype). Can anyone measure up
the width of a Life Like? I don't have one. Thanks.
Westerfield
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


Tom's 1938 Register

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

Some or all of you may be familiar with the above
mentioned book title. It's been reviewed by Bill
Jewett in the Operations-Industry SIG newsletter,
the "Dispatchers Office". Well, I received my copy
in the mail Monday night and I'm impressed as all
get-out. As far as I'm concerned everyone on this
list should have one.

The book lists the businesses and industries all
across the United States that were around in 1938.
I wouldn't say it's *all* of them, but by golly
there's quite enough. The book gives the name of a
company, where it was located, what it produced,
and what railroad(s) it was served by.

That's just for starters. There are also maps of
regions where certain crops and commodities were
concentrated, as well as the time of year when
crops were harvested in that area. Plus a large
bibliography and other good bits of information.

The web site for this book is located at:

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger/t38r.htm

I invite you to go check it out. I have my copy
here at work if you have any questions. No, I don't
have any vested interests, but I'll tell you-this is
the book I would have written had I the time and the
resources. My interests lean more towards 1944-1960,
but the information in here still has validity. All
those companies didn't disappear right at 1939!

Shawn Beckert


Re: A Teichmoeller moment

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Terd,

I've CC:ed this back to the group as someone else may find the data
interesting...I think John indicated that the H31a was, as you suggested
earlier, a "test" car. Then, they made some changes and produced the H31b.
I noticed some interesting roster info on the page you suggested regarding
the conversion of the composite H31b to the all steel H31c:

H31b H31c
492 5 April '52
266 225 Oct '53
12 482 Oct '58
12 475 Oct '63
3 276 April '68

Sooo, the 1966 photo in PP3 is most likely a scrap line, although the
reporting marks don't appear to be "whitelined" in the photo. The amazing
thing is that 3 composite hoppers are still listed in 1968!!! Based on
this data, I'd say Mike Brock needs one of each class <G> for his Sherman
Hill layout ;^)

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce:

Here's a link to the info. There were slight differences as you
indicated, although I don't know why (they're not so great as to indicate
completely different types of cars). Any ideas?

<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=H31
TARGET="_blank">http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=H31

Ted

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
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|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
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Re: A Teichmoeller moment

Ted Culotta <ted@...>
 

Not a significant difference, but actually there were 501. H-31A, #249990
(220842-221341 were classed H-31B) was built in early 1942 (probably a
proof-of-concept, like gon #343432 and box car #119991). At any rate, it
doesn't change the significance of the photo!

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:26 AM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [STMFC] A Teichmoeller moment


I had a John Teichmoeller moment the other day. Ever since getting his
book on PRR steel hoppers, I've been ignoring the foreground of published
photos (especially those diesels) and looking at car types...

On page 317 of Pennsy Power III, there is a photo from 1966 of Altoon PA,
with no less than 4 PRR H31c war emergency twin hoppers! Now since only
500 H31 were originally built and many had been scrapped by then, the
likelihood of randomly catching 4 together has to be pretty slim! Several
conclusions are possible, but the one I keep coming back to is that these
cars may be headed for class repairs (unlikely) or scrap... Why else would
there be 4 congregated at the same location?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0




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A Teichmoeller moment

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

I had a John Teichmoeller moment the other day. Ever since getting his
book on PRR steel hoppers, I've been ignoring the foreground of published
photos (especially those diesels) and looking at car types...

On page 317 of Pennsy Power III, there is a photo from 1966 of Altoon PA,
with no less than 4 PRR H31c war emergency twin hoppers! Now since only
500 H31 were originally built and many had been scrapped by then, the
likelihood of randomly catching 4 together has to be pretty slim! Several
conclusions are possible, but the one I keep coming back to is that these
cars may be headed for class repairs (unlikely) or scrap... Why else would
there be 4 congregated at the same location?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


NH lettering

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Train Miniature had a NH wood box car (forty feet instead of 36 feet) with a
slogan like
"New England's Vacationland" on the door. The car was in the pre-'41
pre-script scheme. I would guess they got this part right, but does anyone
know when it was used, and was it widespread or just on a few cars? - John


Re: Greenville gons

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Al - On the Life-like model, 1.24 inches, measured with a caliper. 1.22 if
you take the tie down lugs into account. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Greenville gons



Al, my Sunshine measures about 8'8" vs 9'2" for the P2K model. Margin of
error
+/- 2" due to measuring with a ruler.

At 11:11 PM 2/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
OK, so now I'm getting familiar with the gons. Turns out both Erie and
Nickel Plate used them for containers. Unfortunately, the Sunshine
version
is much too narrow (8'10" vs 9'6" for the prototype). Can anyone measure
up
the width of a Life Like? I don't have one. Thanks.
Westerfield

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts



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Re: Greenville gons

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Al, my Sunshine measures about 8'8" vs 9'2" for the P2K model. Margin of error
+/- 2" due to measuring with a ruler.

At 11:11 PM 2/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
OK, so now I'm getting familiar with the gons. Turns out both Erie and
Nickel Plate used them for containers. Unfortunately, the Sunshine version
is much too narrow (8'10" vs 9'6" for the prototype). Can anyone measure up
the width of a Life Like? I don't have one. Thanks.
Westerfield

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Greenville gons

Al & Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

OK, so now I'm getting familiar with the gons. Turns out both Erie and
Nickel Plate used them for containers. Unfortunately, the Sunshine version
is much too narrow (8'10" vs 9'6" for the prototype). Can anyone measure up
the width of a Life Like? I don't have one. Thanks.
Westerfield


Re: WM gons

Richard Hendrickson
 

John, regarding the date when the WM ball herald was adopted, there's a
photo of a WM mill gondola (WM 50701) in the 1940 CBCyc which was delivered
with the ball herald in 3-37.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Fedderson tank photos uploaded

tgmadden@...
 

I've just uploaded two JPEG images of an in-process tank kitbash
built from Mark Fedderson's DuPont tank car article, to the <Files>
section of the group's web site. It's from my distressingly large
supply of unfinished projects.

Tom M.


Re: WM ball herald

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

There is a c. 1919 photo of a USRA-like WM hopper in one of the Nimke
Rutland books, with no herald. The ball herald was being used by the late
'30's. Can anyone pin down the date it was adopted a little closer? - John


WM gons

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

In the Aug. '49 Model Railroader, the review of a Utah Scale Models Col 65
foot mill gon said "The sides are sprayed
authentic Western Maryland white and lettered in red. The lettering is
perfect."

Is this true? (the color of the prototype that is) - John


Re: Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers

thompson@...
 

Ted Culotta said:
For all of you tank car kitbashing masochists, there was a great article in
Mainline about 15 years ago by Mark Feddersen...
By the way, I rank Feddersen's article as one of the top kitbashing articles
I have ever read, along with Don Munson's (also from Mainline) about using
two Athearn composite hoppers to make a N&W H-4.
Ted is exactly right about Feddersen's article. Can't comment on the
Munson piece, as I really don't speak "hopper."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers

Ted Culotta <ted@...>
 

If I had caught up with my email before posting, I would have seen this.
Shawn's description is the Feddersen article (so I was wrong... it's a 104
instead of a 105 :-) )

-----Original Message-----
From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:shawn.beckert@disney.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 2:24 PM
To: 'STMFC@yahoogroups.com'
Cc: Tony Thompson (E-mail); Richard Hendrickson (E-mail)
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers


Tony Thompson wrote:

You are thinking of a tank like an ICC 104, Shawn,
not the pressure tank of the ICC 105 type which
the Athearn was apparently aimed at. In these high
pressure tanks, there is no expansion dome as such.
The part that sticks up is, as Richard mentioned,
really a valve casing, with controls inside for
loading and unloading operations.
I understand your point, Tony, and I too feel that the
Athearn kit is a crude attempt at an ICC-105 pressure
car. But if I'm interpreting Richard correctly(and who
knows, I may not be)what he was suggesting was to try
and turn the kit into an ICC-104 insulated car by
discarding the valve casing and shortening the tank.
Granted, the tank may be too large in diameter anyway.
I don't know how many 11,000 gallon tank cars were made
out there in the real world, insulated or not. Making
the proper dome might not be so hard, but if the tank
is too large, all that effort would be for nothing.

Shawn Beckert


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Re: Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers

Ted Culotta <ted@...>
 

For all of you tank car kitbashing masochists, there was a great article in
Mainline about 15 years ago by Mark Feddersen about how to kitbash the
Athearn chemical tank car into an accurate prototype (ICC-105, I believe -
unlike Richard, I actually need to have the reference material in front of
me to speak with any authority about tank cars, and not very well at that).
At any rate, it was a really good drill into how to kitbash the cars. At
the very least it's a great modeling article. The issue had a picture of a
gray DuPont tank car on the cover (and no, I don't have the date in front of
me - can someone else furnish that info?)

By the way, I rank Feddersen's article as one of the top kitbashing articles
I have ever read, along with Don Munson's (also from Mainline) about using
two Athearn composite hoppers to make a N&W H-4.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:shawn.beckert@disney.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:55 AM
To: 'STMFC@yahoogroups.com'
Cc: Richard Hendrickson (E-mail)
Subject: [STMFC] Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers


Richard chides me:

Damn, Shawn, the glass is only half full...
Yes, I know...I'm the quintessential Baby Boomer.
"I want it all - and I want it now." Living here
in La La Land probably has had an influence as well.

We've already talked about the Tichy/IM kitbash to
produce models of the War Emergency USG-A class
cars; I know this works because I've already done
one.
I somehow missed this exchange, so I'll have to bug
you for a crash course on how to do the kitbash. I
seem to recall there's a way to turn this combination
into one of the SHPX series of tank cars as well?

Athearn's "chemical" tank can be shortened(getting
rid of the grotesquely oversize valve casing)and
made into a tank for an insulated ICC-103/ICC-104,if
a suitable insulated dome is fabricated for it.
Now this is something I'd like to see happen. I bought
more than a few of the Athearn kits back when I had no
idea there was no prototype. I'd like the opportunity
to salvage at least part of my investment on those. The
tank length I can probably find out with some serious
research. Cutting the tank down to size would best be
done with a mitre box, no?

What needs to be done for the dome? Without pictures in
front of me, I'll guess it needs to be somewhat larger,
maybe 60", and have an edge or "lip" around the top. Can
this be done to Tichy's dome from the detail pack? Or
maybe accomplished with a wrap of very thin sheet plastic
around an existing dome. I imagine the next step would be
to fabricate the correct safety valves and associated
hardware. Hmmmm, I can see myself seriously pursuing this,
since I've got the raw materials sitting in the closet.
More updates on this as events unfold....

Shawn Beckert


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Re: Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers

Shawn Beckert
 

Tony Thompson wrote:

You are thinking of a tank like an ICC 104, Shawn,
not the pressure tank of the ICC 105 type which
the Athearn was apparently aimed at. In these high
pressure tanks, there is no expansion dome as such.
The part that sticks up is, as Richard mentioned,
really a valve casing, with controls inside for
loading and unloading operations.
I understand your point, Tony, and I too feel that the
Athearn kit is a crude attempt at an ICC-105 pressure
car. But if I'm interpreting Richard correctly(and who
knows, I may not be)what he was suggesting was to try
and turn the kit into an ICC-104 insulated car by
discarding the valve casing and shortening the tank.
Granted, the tank may be too large in diameter anyway.
I don't know how many 11,000 gallon tank cars were made
out there in the real world, insulated or not. Making
the proper dome might not be so hard, but if the tank
is too large, all that effort would be for nothing.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Ancient Tank Cars & Impatient Modelers

thompson@...
 

Shawn B. asks:
What needs to be done for the dome? Without pictures in
front of me, I'll guess it needs to be somewhat larger,
maybe 60", and have an edge or "lip" around the top...
I imagine the next step would be
to fabricate the correct safety valves and associated
hardware.
You are thinking of a tank like an ICC 104, Shawn, not the pressure tank
of the ICC 105 type which the Athearn was apparently aimed at. In these
high-pressure tanks, there is no expansion dome as such. The part that
sticks up is, as Richard mentioned, really a valve casing, with controls
inside for loading and unloading operations. The Athearn version of this is
at least double the correct size (yet another sign that they just blew up a
6000-gal. or some other smaller size prototype to fit their 40-ft.
underframe).
Probably the simplest fix is to replace the Athearn part with something
around half or less of its size. Frank Hodina made patterns for these some
years ago, and I've converted a few Athearns this way. But serious problems
remain. The Athearn tank has a riveted-car bottom sheet; it is the
equivalent of about an 11,000 gallon jacketed tank, a peculiar size with
few if any prototypes; and the platform and railing are as grossly out of
scale as is the valve casing. At the very least, I'd sand off the bottom
sheet rivets and scratch a new platform and railing. The size remains an
issue.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

186781 - 186800 of 187383