Tony,You forgot to mention Silver Streak , Central Valley ,Globe and Mantua to name a few others.Armand Premo

Jon Miller asked:

What issue, it seems it's a couple of months behind.

And Tony Thompson answered:

You're right, Jon, it tends to run a couple of months off. What I
got at the end of January was the issue for December 2006. But they
do come regularly.

My January 2007 issue arrived earlier in the week.

Tom Madden

I got mine this past week (and it had to travel 1/3 of the way around the
world)

David Ball


_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jon
Miller
Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 3:40 p.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rail Model Journal??



My last copy was November but I'm guessing December is close. Just a
slow PO.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS






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Ah, thank you Mr Thompson. I've always wondering if the differential between
cover date and when I get it was because they are behind, or due to their
shipping.

Ta

David Ball


_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 3:04 p.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rail Model Journal??



Jon Miller wrote:

What issue, it seems it's a couple of months behind.

You're right, Jon, it tends to run a couple of months off. What I
got at the end of January was the issue for December 2006. But they do
come regularly.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.-com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, HYPERLINK
"mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com"thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Continuing:

IC, XM, Box, 37500-37993, 40'6", 10'0", 80000, 486
IC, XM, Box, 40250-40499, 50'5", 12'0", 75000, 242
L&N, XM, Box, 13500-13999, 40'6", 6'0", 100000, 244
L&N, XM, Box, 48700-48949, 40'6", 10'0", 100000, 243
MEC, XM, Box, 35301-35650, 40'6", 6'0", 80000, 243
MILW, XAR, Auto, 9000-9499, 40'6", 15'0", 80000, 498

Steel, horiz rib, blt 3-6/47. RP CYC 13 pp1-75.

MILW, XM, Box, 15500-15749, 50'6", 15'0", 100000, 248

Steel, horiz rib, blt 5-8/46. RP CYC 13 pp1-75.

MP, XM, Box, 44000-44410, 40'4", 6'0", 80000, 408
MP, XM, Box, 44500-44788, 40'4", 6'0", 80000, 281

SS, blt 6/29 as DD, rblt single-door before 4/47.
Postwar Freight Car Fleet, p62.

MP, XM, Box, 45251-45494, 40'3", 6'0", 80000, 239
MP, XAR, Auto, 75280-75479, 40'6", 12'1", 80000, 200
MP, XAR, Auto, 75480-75999, 40'6", 12'1", 80000, 338
MP, XAR, Auto, 76150-76999, 40'6", 12'1", 80000, 308
MP, XAR, Auto, 88500-88803, 50'6", 14'7", 100000, 302

SS, blt '26-27, rblt '41. MM 1/96 pp35-38.

SB&M, XM, Box, 20051-20550, 40'0", 6'0", 80000, 384
N&W, XM, Box, 40000-40603, 40'6", 6'0", 100000, 594
PM , XM, Box, 88000-88349, 40'6", 6'0", 80000, 229

SS 1-1/2D, blt '26, aux doors sealed post '34. FFC v1 p48.

RI, XMR, Auto, 159250-159899, 40'6", 14'6", 80000, 361

SS, blt late '20s. FFC v1 p53.

RI, XM, Box, 160250-160599, 40'6", 12'0", 80000, 334

SS, blt late '20s. FFC v1 p53.

-- hth --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Another point worth making is that there really wasn't all that much scratch building 50 years ago or so. You just made do with what you could get. Layouts were full of Athearn and Ulrich metal cars, Varney plastic, and some paper-side cars. You could visit layouts all over the country and see the exact same freight cars (and structures and passenger cars and . . . ) because anything else was far too much trouble. Sure, some talented and energetic people were building great models, but I'd guess there were no more of them then than now. And what they built wouldn't be that impressive today. Just go back and look at the magazine photos.
Layouts like Jack Burgess's YV were really inconceivable then. Jack has had to scratch build an awful lot, but 50 years ago you couldn't even get sheet styrene (nor would you have known what to do with it), and the very first brass engines were just coming into view. People thought Ambroid kits were "too hard," and hey, those Bowser locomotives didn't look THAT odd with Belpaire boilers on your free-lanced short line. And there was hardly any serious prototype information being published; practically no modelers had discovered the Cyc and other resources.
The progress to today is really qualitative, not just quantitative. Richard Hendrickson is right when he says "THIS is the golden age." When we have one of these discussion about where the hobby is and where it's going, let's not forget where it's come from.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

On Fri, February 2, 2007 7:19 pm, proto48er wrote:

Two things still bother me about Westerfield's website photos. First,
in the G-22 section, there is a drawing from Kalmbach Pub. Co. from
1986 (?) which shows the brake arrangement! I would have preferred a
PRR drawing! Second, in Westerfield's GRa section, it shows the same
squirrily brake arrangement - I do not recall that GRa's ever had drop
doors or steel floors (which would have allowed enough extra strength
for mounting of a brake cylinder on a longitudinal plate between two
crossmembers). Why would the GRa's have this arrangement? Do the GR's
and the FM's have it too? (I do have two GRa's, one GR, one FM and one
FGRa to detail in another project, if I live long enough). As usual,
more questions than answers!

A.T.,

This is the standard brake arrangement for PRR cars of this era. I was
about to say that it had nothing to do with drop doors, but it may well
have originated in that style car. Regardless, it was applied to the GR
(and FM which is a twin to the GR), GRa and many other cars such as the
X25 and X29. Similar brakes were used on the B&O M-26A. Westerfield and
F&C have nice castings for the levers in their kits (note that the
Sunshine FM has a bogus brake arrangement drawing in the instruction).

BTW, we just finished an FM project on the PRRPro group <G>.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Feb 2, 2007, at 6:18 PM, Steve Bishop superlab2003 wrote:

I am finishing an Eastern Car Works depressed center flat for the New
Haven RR. My information on the trucks says they were simply "low
profile, friction bearing, four-wheel trucks". Any idea what HO trucks
would be closest to the prototype?

The correct trucks for these models are Eastern Car Works' own Commonwalth High Capacity trucks, stock #9063.

Richard Hendrickson

Jack Burgess writes:

"While I appreciate all of the new freight cars, both plastic and resin, all
of these "riches" (as I mentioned before) may have reduced our hobby to a
"ready to run" hobby. After all, there is very little that you can't now
purchase ready to run....engines, DCC systems, freight cars, structures,
track, etc. It seems that MR especially has embraced this idea...."


Actually, while I think Jack is correct about much that he said, he has a small but interesting conflict in this part of his comments. "Resin". As Jack well knows "resin" is not ready to run. I don't doubt that it is true that people wish to purchase ready to run but one cannot purchase ready to run resin cars...at least not yet. Part of the reason for buying ready to run stuff is, as Jack alludes to, it's easy to do AND it's probably the only way some of us are going to acquire the huge fleets of cars we seem to require. Today there are many, many frt cars not available in plastic so we are forced to go the resin route if we want some of these gems. For that matter, there are still large numbers of frt cars simply not available...in any form. Anyhow, the point is, we seem to see very different frt car acquisitions by the same people...ready to run plastic and "ready to build" resin cars....kits.

Mike Brock

We miss the vintage Mainline Modeler when it was forward leaning
publication that tried to raise the level of standard gauge modeling
to that of narrow gauger. He used the Gazette as a model to copy. He
was not able to match the Gazette in terms of authors and material.
The Gazette authors contributed 90% of the magazine content with
little coming from the staff. This is the idea situation. Hundman
had to generate much of his own material. He did do some useful
scale plans with excellent photo coverage. There were flaws in his
plans and sometimes the text contained poorly researched technical
data but you find differences with prototype general arrangement
drawings. I have attempted to scratch build many models from
prototype drawings only to find out the actual car didn't match the
drawings precisely. Builders made changes and issued revisions. A
drawing alone does not assure you an accurate model.
As Tony pointed out, Bob Hundman had lost touch with the hobby. It
has changed in many dimensions. Bob still thought that people were
interested in learning techniques on scratch building a freight car.
His articles may have been tedious but they did contain useful some
techniques.
There are many excellent sources of prototype data and sources for
modeling inspiration today that didn't exist when the Mainline Modeler
was started. We won't miss the recent magazine since only a few
thousand were buying it anyways.

Gene Deimling


--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

What we miss of Mainline Modeler is not the tree articles, the

editorials, or multi-installment construction projects.... but the
prototype pictures, reproduction of builder and railroad drawings and
diagrams, the prepared drawings (however imperfect), in-depth studies
of locomotive and car types, introduction of new model building
techniques, etc...

We miss the POTENTIAL of Mainline Modeler and its overall legacy

more than the reality of its recent past.

Somewhat like X2200 South.... another publication that has "gone

south" if you pardon the pun..... they established the taxonomy of
Diesel Locomotives beyond what sufficed for the builders and the
railroads... but have devolved into a reporter of roster changes and
new deliveries and liveries in contemporary railroading.

I would think with the obvious popularity of modeling the prototype,

as evidenced by the growing attendance at seminars across the country,
there would be a market for a magazine to fill the void left by
Mainline Modeler.... that would expand and complement what we can get
from the occasional article in the mainstream magazines and the RPC,
Essential Freight Cars, and other books and journals (and online
magazines such as the PRR & B&O efforts).

While freight cars, locomotives, and structures have been covered

hard for the past four decades there is still much to learn and
document.... and we've not scratched the surface on Passenger Cars,
Traction and many other topics.

We owe a huge debt to Bob Hundman. His body of work in Mainline

Modeler and other publications, as well as his behind-the-scenes work
in supporting the Manufacturers has made a tremendous positive impact
on the Hobby.

I, for one, miss Mainline Modeler and can only hope a group of

people comes along that can continue his work.

Charlie Vlk


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not on vacation - just trying to get some projects done.
NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES.

A. T. Kott wrote:
"Two things still bother me about Westerfield's website photos.
First, in the G22 section, there is a drawing from Kalmbach Pub. Co.
from 1986 (?) which shows the brake arrangement! I would have
preferred a PRR drawing!"

So would I, A.T., but I simply don't have one handy. PRR freight car
General Arrangement drawings have been cataloged and microfilmed by
the PRRT&HS; reproductions can be ordered from the society:
http://www.prrths.com/Downloads/01%20Microfilm%20Drawing%20Ordering%
20Information%20Rev.%202006-02-07.pdf

Here's the drawing catalog:
http://www.prrths.com/Downloads/02%20Frt%20Car%20Gen%20Arrt,%20Rev.%
202006-02-07.pdf

The MR drawing that you cited is actually from April 1950.


"Second, in Westerfield's GRa section, it shows the same squirrily
brake arrangement - I do not recall that GRa's ever had drop doors or
steel floors (which would have allowed enough extra strength for
mounting of a brake cylinder on a longitudinal plate between two
crossmembers). Why would the GRa's have this arrangement?"

The Class GRA cars did not have drop doors. The only good reason I
could give you is that the PRR mechanical department preferred this
arrangement for cars with fishbelly center sills. Note that the
contemporary Class X25 boxcars have the same arrangement. If you
don't believe me or the Westerfield model photos, see the files
section of the STMFPH group for a Richard Burg photo of a Class X25
boxcar being scrapped at Lancaster PA in 1980 (File name - X25
Underframe.jpg). Although the car had been converted to AB brakes,
the original brake arrangement including the cylinder mounting is
clearly visible.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/


"Do the GR's and the FM's have it too?"

Yes. See the October 2003 issue of The Keystone Modeler for a
corrected copy of the Class GRA drawings from the February 1990 issue
of Mainline Modeler. (The Mainline Modeler drawings are incorrectly
labeled, with a drawing of an as-built car with KD brakes
labled "Modified with AB Brakes". It's no longer posted on the
Society website, but is available (along with the first 36 issues of
TKM) from Al Buchan on CD.


Ben Hom

There has been a significant shift over the years BUT I saw in the last year or two a couple articles in either MR or RMC on handlaying turnouts.

I just looked through the MR index of articles and only found two prototype drawings listed for 2006.

I think the ranks of the scratch and kit (wood) builders are dwindling and I see the mags are moving away from that. I myself have kits that I purchased about 10 years ago and have not touched them. The ready to run market seems to have taken over. The earlier era modeler has to dig more than ever now to find material to work from.

Another group group I belong to was discussing archives and how to distribute and preserve the material they have. The problem encountered many times is the archivists not wanting to run material though todays machines to transfer images for fear of destroying what they have. But thats another issue.

Back to steam era modeling.

Robert Federle
---- Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:

Earlier I made this statement and I should clarify something...

I wrote:
"
I have had a long standing (sometimes very trying) personal and business
relationship with Bob. But in my most humble opinion (and I have never beat
around the bush and would tell him to his face) Bob made several business
mistakes during the life of MM. The first in my opinion came in the summer of 1994,
when Jeff was editor of Mainline. Jeff wrote a commentary regarding issues of
manufacturers and their practices of offering freight car kits with molded on
details and one manufacturer in particular that when backwards with his
molds at the time and Jeff was critical. It came to an argument at the NMRA
Nationals in Portland when Jeff was "ambushed" by more than one, I was there at
the time with Jeff. It was not pretty and Bob became aware and Jeff was soon
removed. MISTAKE #1"

The commentary Jeff wrote was directed at C&BT Shops for their retooling of
their kits from kits with separate ladders and so forth to molded on parts.

I was as much to blame for the commentary as I was the one who got Jeff
fired up. Remember Jeff at the time was actually an O Scale modeler. But my point
was that Bob backed away from Jeff in his commentary which I suppose was
what any businessman would do when a manufacturer felt he/she was "under attack"
by his editor. As we all know this causes "soft reviews." We all respect the
perceived markets that manufacturers target, and we often make chicken soup
from chicken poop, but to be successful in one market then take an about face
was just down right ignorant in my humble opinion. Jeff and Bob are good
friends today, perhaps better friends than coworkers as is often the case in
life. I just saw the move on Bob's part as short sighted with the direction the
market was headed and besides Jeff took his lecturing from several folks at
that convention standing tall.

Some of my favorite articles were the diesel paint and lettering schemes and
in particular Dave Messers article on New Haven RS-3's. Another on the
freight car side was Jeff English's article on the rebuilding of the flat kit PS-1
(Kratz Kit I believe) into a six foot door version of the NYC car. I believe
someone told me Jeff has moved into S Scale? Jeff's article to me was
cutting edge and then he did re-detailed the CB&T 40-foot boxcar into a smashing
UP car! I could always count on something from Mont Switzer in freight cars.

To me the drawings were nice, but the accuracy of the cars was always a
concern, but what can you expect for about 5 bucks? I wasn't scratch building
then, but my brother did and he would pick up on the errors.

Like Tony says, much of what we were doing then is offered to us today in
some medium.

Greg Martin

Before Mike cuts off this discussion because it isn't related enough to
freight cars....

I've noticed a real change in all of the magazines....I subscribe to MR,
RMC, RMJ, the Gazette, Finescale Modeler, Trains, and Classic Trains. I read
the Gazette as soon as it arrives since, although much of the modeling is
freelance and cute stuff (influenced obviously by editor Bob Brown), the
modeling and photography are always top-notch. Likewise for Finescale
Modeler....very nice modeling. I love the spreads showing one modelers
efforts, an idea I've pitched to MR to no avail (even though Terry was once
the editor of Finescale Modeler.)

As for the other model railroading magazines, have you noticed the change
over the past decade? No more articles on electronic circuits and devices,
fewer (no?) scale drawings of any type, fewer articles on scratchbuilding,
fewer articles on freight cars except for RMJ and Ted's articles, no
articles on hand-laying track, few comprehensive articles on industries, and
no articles on new jigs or tools (I remember when Finelines had article by
Gene Deimling on making a riveter out of a sewing machine and another on
Cerro Bend casting). While MR tends to have articles every year on basic
things such as using prefab track, when was the last time you saw an article
on resin castings....how about an article on making masters for freight car
sides?

While I appreciate all of the new freight cars, both plastic and resin, all
of these "riches" (as I mentioned before) may have reduced our hobby to a
"ready to run" hobby. After all, there is very little that you can't now
purchase ready to run....engines, DCC systems, freight cars, structures,
track, etc. It seems that MR especially has embraced this idea....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

My last copy was November but I'm guessing December is close. Just a slow PO.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

During the late fifties , B&O equipped a number of its O-63
gondolas with angled corrugated hoods or a roof ..... for coil
steel and flat steel plate loading, respectively. I believe
these were vendor supplied items, developed and offered by
Republic Steel.

Are there any scale drawings of these Republic hood and roof
designs?

I am finishing an Eastern Car Works depressed center flat for the New
Haven RR. My information on the trucks says they were simply "low
profile, friction bearing, four-wheel trucks". Any idea what HO trucks
would be closest to the prototype?

Steve Bishop

AT Kott wrote:

Sorry - I am really a Mopac (I-GN) + M-K-T + T&NO type of guy! Mopac
always had a lot of PRR freight cars in the trains down in south Texas,
so they are a necessary evil. Some of the PRR cars are pretty
interesting, however

What kinds of PRR Freight Cars were in South Texas, and in what proportion of Total Boxcars? Total Gons? Total Hoppers? Total Stock Cars? Total Flat Cars?

Tim Gilbert

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Pfeiffer" <dave.pfeiffer@...> wrote:

BTW. Ben Hom must be on vacation, so I'll remind you. There are no

dashes

in PRR car classes. G22. :-)

Dave Pfeiffer

Sorry - I am really a Mopac (I-GN) + M-K-T + T&NO type of guy! Mopac
always had a lot of PRR freight cars in the trains down in south Texas,
so they are a necessary evil. Some of the PRR cars are pretty
interesting, however! A.T. Kott

Jon Miller wrote:

What issue, it seems it's a couple of months behind.

You're right, Jon, it tends to run a couple of months off. What I got at the end of January was the issue for December 2006. But they do come regularly.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history