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Re: How is the AB brake cylinder mounted on the PRR G-22 gondola?
proto48er
--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:
Texas... Tim - I do not know the exact proportion of each type of PRR car, but there were a considerable number of PRR boxcars, gondolas and flatcars on the I-GN through freights from Austin to San Antonio in the late 1950's. The primary cars on the I-GN trains were MP boxcars, with PRR boxcars next. There were very few NYC cars on MP trains, but they were more common on M-K-T trains for some reason and there were very few PRR cars on them. I was too young to understand or ask any of the operating personnel why this traffic pattern existed - I doubt if any knew, since we are a long way from St Louis where the brains of the operation were. The only MP switch lists I have are OT (1961-1963). Many shipments of steel and other mfg. goods were delivered on MP in PRR gons. and on PRR flats (to a lesser extent). I have photos of captive PRR GRa gons. used to haul cut limestone slabs from a quarry on the T&NO Llano Branch to a facility in the city of Austin. Surprisingly, there were PRR stock cars down here too. It appears that the King Ranch in Kingsville, Texas (on the StLB&M) regularly shipped cattle to and from Pennsylvania - they had some kind of fattening (?) operation there. There were very few PRR hopper cars here. Coal in south Texas was shipped primarily in gondolas in the 1948 era of my interest. However, I like the PRR H-21a and H-25 cars because they look very much like a series of later-built MP quad hoppers which were everywhere down here in the late 1950's. I saw a ton of the PRR cars when I lived in Reading, Penna. in 1950-1951 also. These MP cars were built out of my time frame, but the PRR hoppers are not an anachronism, so there they are! I am the boss, so that is that! Out of 400+ cars, I do have (4) H-21a's, (1)H-25, and (1)H-22a - even the paint and lettering on them looks like the MP quad hoppers! Also, the top 24" of one of the PRR GLc gons.(hoppers?) was cut off and it was used on the Midland Terminal RR in Colorado Springs; when the MT went belly-up in 1947, it was sold to a quarry in New Braunfels, Texas - so it is fair game too. Only photo I have is as an MT car. ORER dimensions indicate it was a PRR GLc, and not a UP or B&O car. We did see a number of hoppers of coke, used by one of the local foundrys - also a roofless boxcar or two (L&N) in that service. Have been fighting the thought of converting an H-22a into an H-22 coke car - one lone car was left on the PRR roster until about 1952. Some MP trains had solid blocks of ART reefers in them. Some had large blocks of MP gondolas and/or MP covered hoppers in them. Very few AT&SF cars were down here on MP or M-K-T or SP - just an occasional boxcar or reefer. Some surprising cars came through regularly on the MP - like B&O wagon-top covered hoppers with catalytic cracking catalyst for the FCCU's at the Corpus Christi refineries - all sent down the SAU&G (MP) line south of San Antonio. Also an occasional brick container car with special firebrick for the refineries (did not ever see one of these, however). Also L&NE covered hoppers down here on MP. In a typical MP freight of 1954, about 65% of the cars were MP, then 10% PRR, then 5% B&O and 5% SP - I saw lots of trains with this mix over a 15 year period. MP trains consisted mostly of boxcars, with a good percentage of gondolas and covered hoppers in them as well. M-K-T had more of a mix, with only 30% or so of M-K-T cars per train - mostly boxcars. A.T. Kott
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The DS/SS split - Some data
laramielarry <ostresh@...>
Hi Folks
Here are the distributions of double sheathed, single sheathed and steel box and auto cars for several RRs as of July, 1950. I'll post more later. ATSF . . Percent . .Number DS . . . . 1.2%. . . . 405 SS . . . .21.6%. . . 7,549 Steel. . .67.1%. . .23,412 "Panel". . 7.9%. . . 2,755 Known. . 97.9%. . . 34,121 Unknown. . 2.1%. . . . 748 Total. . 100.0%. . .34,869 With nearly 98% of the fleet tallied, steel is about 2/3 of the Santa Fe fleet; DS is miniscule and is almost entirely 36' cars - unless one chooses to count the "panel" cars as DS, which the ORER does. MILW . . Percent . .Number DS . . . . 0.1%. . . . .28 SS . . . .53.9%. . .17,226 Steel. . .45.3%. . .14,493 Known. . 99.3%. . . 31,747 Unknown. . 0.7%. . . . 224 Total. . 100.0%. . .31,971 Over 99% of the Milwaukee fleet is categorized, and single sheathed cars have a bit of an edge over steel; DS is negligible. N&W . . Percent . .Number DS . . . . 1.1%. . . .101 SS . . . .10.5%. . . .943 Steel. . .88.3%. . .7,900 Known. . 100.0%. . .8,944 All the box and auto cars on the Norfolk and Western are classified; steel dominates (all that coal goes to produce something!). RI . . Percent . . Number DS . . . . 6.4%. . .1,153 SS . . . .43.9%. . .7,914 Steel. . .47.5%. . .8,560 Known. . 97.8%. . .17,627 Unknown. . 2.2%. . . .397 Total. . 0.0%. . . 18,024 Nearly 98% of the Rock Island cars are tallied; SS is close to steel, but even if all the "Unknowns" go its way, it won't win the race. Soo . . Percent . .Number DS . . . . 3.7%. . . .344 SS . . . .60.6%. . .5,630 Steel. . .28.3%. . .2,626 Known. . 92.5%. . . 8,600 Unknown. . 7.5%. . . .694 Total. . 100.0%. . .9,294 SS wins big on the Soo, however, regardless of how the "Unknowns" fall. This would be a great line to model if you want to escape the blandness of the flat-sides. I post these results with some trepidation, as is possible - maybe even likely - that I made some major errors in classification. If so, please know that I WOULD like to be informed of the problems, so that I can correct them. Best wishes, Larry Ostresh Laramie, Wyoming
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
rfederle@...
I have a couple Silver Streak kits on the shelf awaiting construction. Maybe someday.
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Robert Federle ---- Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
Armand Premo wrote:Tony,You forgot to mention Silver Streak , Central Valley ,GlobeThere was no intention to provide a complete history of HO kits
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Re: The DS/SS split - Thanks and an update
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
I will be most appreciative if you can provide me information on theClass A-50-16, built in 1947, all-steel double doors (originally 500 cars). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Armand Premo wrote:
Tony,You forgot to mention Silver Streak , Central Valley ,Globe and Mantua to name a few others.There was no intention to provide a complete history of HO kits <g>, just choosing a couple of examples. Speaking just for me, I loved Silver Streak kits in those days. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
George Hollwedel <georgeloop@...>
What is John's e-mail address?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Prototype N Scale Models by George Hollwedel proto.nscale@... 310 Loma Verde Street Buda, TX 78610-9785 512-796-6883
----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:53 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Kits? Yep...they're still with us
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
Schuyler Larrabee
Anthony Thompson:
Sure, some talented and energetic people were building greatSo, just how many of us are there? This list's home page says 1,244 members. Yet when I spoke with John Engstrom at Springfield about the idea of undecorated versions of the 65' mill gon, he said "There's only about 60 of you guys out there, you know." Y'know, I think he's wrong. But that's what he thinks. Now, I know that there are probably a lot of guys on this list (are there ANY women?) who simply want to know more about when a car was built, who built them, the kind of car they are, the era they're appropriate for, how long they lasted and that's about it. There's another subset that want to know precisely what kind of end they have, what brake gear they have, the kind of roof walk, and so on. And then there are those who want to know exactly how many rivets, and what size they were, on some specific tank car. But I'm absolutely sure that there are more, way more, than "60 of you guys out there." There's power in numbers, and if we want kits, we have to make sure that Athearn (and BLI, IM, and the others) know that there's more than 60 of us. SGL
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Will value of dollar and oil prices bring back kits?
colormydreams2 <LMP@...>
I watched an interesting financial show this morning where the guest
was talking about the trillions of dollars that we have in debt to other nations is coming back to haunt us. Will the Chinese have so many American dollars that we will start building kits for them? Will $100 a barrel oil run up the cost of model cars that we will build our own kits instead of shipping them overseas, assembling them then shipping them back here? Will we have lost all our skills of assembly? One O scaler who still sniffs glue, Ken Towler
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Kits? 50 + years ago.
Edwin C. Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
Now if you go back to 1956 and glance through the
adds in the MR for that year you will find many more kit makers listed than you already mentioned. Aunthenticast, Ayres, Binkly/Laconia, Cliff Line, Gilbert, Kurtz-Kraft, L-W Models, M.Dale Newton/Red Ball, M.E.W., Main Line, Roundhouse/MDC and Selly. In years before that we had A-C Models, Ideal, Lehigh, Megow Walthers & etc. This is just HO. And how many of those "Dollar Cars" did you build before the advent of styrene? Could you do better now? Edwin C. Kirstatter, B&O Modeler.
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Re: trucks for flatcar?
Stephen Bishop
Thanks.
Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote: On Feb 2, 2007, at 6:18 PM, Steve Bishop superlab2003 wrote: I am finishing an Eastern Car Works depressed center flat for the NewThe correct trucks for these models are Eastern Car Works' own Commonwalth High Capacity trucks, stock #9063. Richard Hendrickson --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
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Hutchins boxcar end
destron@...
Does anyone know of a source for good photos and drawings of the Hutchins
boxcar end? Frank Valoczy Modelling the Piedmont & Northern in TT.
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Re: Kits? 50 + years ago.
eabracher@...
How many kit builders? Well, there are more than a few. I have been
manufacturing Ho/HOn3 kits for 35+ years and am still going strong and adding new ones each month. Of course the narrow gauge ones sell more than the standard gauge kits but both are doing well. check my web www.riograndemodels.com eric
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
rfederle@...
Might as well throw Walthers and Red Ball out there too.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Robert Federle ---- Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:
Guyz,
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
Guyz,
Allow me to fill in 3 more; Megow, Kaisner, and Laconia. Fred Freitas ljack70117@... wrote: Did I see John English in the list? Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... I was born with nothing and I have most of it left On Feb 3, 2007, at 10:40 AM, <rfederle@...> <rfederle@...> wrote: And Armand, you forgot Quality Craft, Suydam and Penn Line to name --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
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Re: Branchline AAR boxcar
Ed Hawkins
On Feb 2, 2007, at 6:51 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:02 PM, Camas74 wrote:To which Richard replied: I've always been puzzled about why the BLT end ladders are narrowerMatt and Richard, Side and end ladders came in multiple ways for the 10'-6" IH AAR box cars built from 1945 to 1960. Cars of this type built in "Richard's era" of October 1947 and before often had side and end ladders of the same width. Side ladders were commonly, but not universally, 18-1/2" apart (measurement between the rung bolt head centers). Some cars built during the 1945-1960 period had end ladders 2" narrower than the side ladders. There were other fractional differences in widths. Complicating the matter for modelers and manufacturers of plastic "standard" AAR box cars, during the 1950s the bottom part of the end ladders were sometimes flared on one side (like Kadee tooled for PS-1 box cars), and there were at least two variations of this arrangement I've found. Common examples of these end ladders have the top 5 rungs at 16-1/2" wide and the bottom 2 rungs at 18-1/2" wide (again, measured to the bolt centers). Additional variations included the common use of both 7-rung and 8-rung ladders, different types of ladder rungs, each with different methods of attachment, and different rung spacing. For example, 18-3/8" spacing was common for 7-rung ladders but was not a universal dimension. When Branchline Trains tooled their "standard" AAR 50' and 40' Blueprint Series AAR box cars, they had numerous challenges that resulted in having to make judgment calls and compromises on the many variations found in the technical data and photographs they used. I can vividly recall conversations with Bill Schneider when we discussed variations of side and end ladders. Bill kept reminding me about the tooling cost that needed to be kept within reason. Originally BLT settled on one set of 7-rung ladders that they tooled, and they chose to have the end ladders narrower than the side ladders. With some "encouragement" they later produced a set of 8-rung ladders. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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SAL B-7 Box Coming in BOTH S Scale AND HO!!!
John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
Everyone is probably already familiar with my efforts to get the SAL's B-7 Round Roof (or Turtle-Back), 19000-19499 series boxcars produced in my new scale of interest - S scale. But I have just this morning received comfirmation from my manufacturer that this model will definitely be offered in HO as well. The S scale version will come first (hopefully by the end of this year), and the HO version second (date still to be determined).
ALL reservations should be made with Jim King (jimking3@...) of www.smokymountainmodelworks.com. And if anyone has any photographs of these cars you can offer as helps for this project and its accompanying, promotional web page (below), they should be sent to myself (scaler164@...) AND Jim King. Promotional Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SALRoundRoofBoxCarProject.htm If one man can make it happen in S scale, surely there is enough interest amongst HO scalers to see this car made in HO. So send Jim and e-mail and let him know how many you'd like to have! John Degnan Scaler164@... The Seaboard Air Line Information Collective and Photo Archive www.trainweb.org/seaboard or www.trainweb.org/seabonard/index.htm P.S. ALSO coming in S and HO : SAL LOW-Side Gondolas!!!
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The DS/SS split - Thanks and an update
laramielarry <ostresh@...>
Many thanks to the following people answered my request for help in
pinning down the split between double sheathed and single sheathed box and auto cars for the U.S. fleet in July, 1950: Jim Brewer, Al Brown, Brian Ehni, Richard Hendrickson, and Dennis Storzek. Thanks to their efforts, over 8,000 cars have been removed from "Unknown" status and categorized into DS, SS, steel, or "Other". Here is the current breakdown: U.S. box, auto, and ventilator cars in interchange service, July, 1950 ORER: Type_____ %_____ number DS _____ 9.0% __ 64,629 SS ____ 21.1% _ 150,612 Steel _ 66.5% _ 475,872 Other __ 0.7% ___ 4,758 Unknown_ 2.7% __ 19,258 Total __ 100% _ 715,129 This means that over 97% of the fleet is categorized; two-thirds of it is steel and the rest is a combination of DS, SS, or "Other". The DS/SS split is 30% DS and 70% SS. Nearly all of the "Other" category consists of the Santa Fe's "panel" cars or the GN's "plywood" cars. The ORER classifies the "panel" cars as DS, and the "plywood" cars are often considered DS also, so shifting them would add a little to the DS side of the ledger. Later today (if time permits), I'll post the breakdown for several specific railroads. ***** Answers have been given for about half of the cars on my "help needed" list, but the other half still remains. I will be most appreciative if you can provide me information on the following car series. Most important is whether the cars are DS, SS, steel (or steel rebuild), or "other" (if "other", what?). If in addition you can provide the date when built (and rebuilt, if appropriate), that would be great! Further information such as class, sub-category (e.g., "Fowler" or "Ribside") would be nice, but is not necessary. Of course, references to photographs would be wonderful. The classification should reflect the status of the series as of July, 1950. If these cars can be classified, over 98% of the fleet will be categorized. Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, Door, Capy, Qty CNW, XM, Box, 63000-64898, 40'6", 6'0", 80000, 515 CNW, XM, Box, 74900-76898, 40'6", 6'0", 80000, 971 CNW, XM, Box, 111000-111998, 40'6", 10'0", 80000, 482 CNW, XMR, Auto, 54000-54798, 40'6", 12'0", 80000, 393 CG, XM, Box, 40300-40699, 39'10", 6'0", 80000, 351 IC, XM, Box, 15500-15796, 40'2", 6'0", 80000, 291 IC, XM, Box, 25000-25499, 40'3", 6'0", 80000, 258 IC, XM, Box, 37500-37993, 40'6", 10'0", 80000, 486 IC, XM, Box, 40250-40499, 50'5", 12'0", 75000, 242 L&N, XM, Box, 13500-13999, 40'6", 6'0", 100000, 244 L&N, XM, Box, 48700-48949, 40'6", 10'0", 100000, 243 MEC, XM, Box, 35301-35650, 40'6", 6'0", 80000, 243 MP, XM, Box, 44000-44410, 40'4", 6'0", 80000, 408 MP, XM, Box, 45251-45494, 40'3", 6'0", 80000, 239 MP, XAR, Auto, 75280-75479, 40'6", 12'1", 80000, 200 MP, XAR, Auto, 75480-75999, 40'6", 12'1", 80000, 338 MP, XAR, Auto, 76150-76999, 40'6", 12'1", 80000, 308 SB&M, XM, Box, 20051-20550, 40'0", 6'0", 80000, 384 SP, XM, Box, 66175-66674, 40'6", 10'7", 100000, 428 T&P, XM, Box, 30000-30316, 40'6", 6'0", 80000, 312 Thanks in advance! Larry Ostresh Laramie, Wyoming
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
ljack70117@...
Did I see John English in the list?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... I was born with nothing and I have most of it left
On Feb 3, 2007, at 10:40 AM, <rfederle@...> <rfederle@...> wrote:
And Armand, you forgot Quality Craft, Suydam and Penn Line to name a few more.
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
armprem
Ambroid too.Armand Premo
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: <rfederle@...> To: <STMFC@...> Cc: "A. Premo" <armprem@...> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kits? Yep...they're still with us > And Armand, you forgot Quality Craft, Suydam and Penn Line to name a few more. > > Robert Federle > ---- "A. Premo" <armprem@...> wrote: >> Tony,You forgot to mention Silver Streak , Central Valley ,Globe and >> Mantua to name a few others.Armand Premo >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...> >> To: <STMFC@...> >> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kits? Yep...they're still with us >> >> >> > Another point worth making is that there really wasn't all that >> > much scratch building 50 years ago or so. You just made do with what >> > you could get. Layouts were full of Athearn and Ulrich metal cars, >> > Varney plastic, and some paper-side cars. You could visit layouts all >> > over the country and see the exact same freight cars (and structures >> > and passenger cars and . . . ) because anything else was far too much >> > trouble. Sure, some talented and energetic people were building great >> > models, but I'd guess there were no more of them then than now. And >> > what they built wouldn't be that impressive today. Just go back and >> > look at the magazine photos. >> > Layouts like Jack Burgess's YV were really inconceivable then. >> > Jack has had to scratch build an awful lot, but 50 years ago you >> > couldn't even get sheet styrene (nor would you have known what to do >> > with it), and the very first brass engines were just coming into view. >> > People thought Ambroid kits were "too hard," and hey, those Bowser >> > locomotives didn't look THAT odd with Belpaire boilers on your >> > free-lanced short line. And there was hardly any serious prototype >> > information being published; practically no modelers had discovered the >> > Cyc and other resources. >> > The progress to today is really qualitative, not just >> > quantitative. Richard Hendrickson is right when he says "THIS is the >> > golden age." When we have one of these discussion about where the hobby >> > is and where it's going, let's not forget where it's come from. >> > >> > Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA >> > 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com >> > (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... >> > Publishers of books on railroad history >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.15/659 - Release Date: >> 1/30/2007 9:31 AM >> > >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.15/659 - Release Date: 1/30/2007 9:31 AM > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Kits? Yep...they're still with us
rfederle@...
And Armand, you forgot Quality Craft, Suydam and Penn Line to name a few more.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Robert Federle ---- "A. Premo" <armprem@...> wrote:
Tony,You forgot to mention Silver Streak , Central Valley ,Globe and
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