Date   

Re: Freight Cars in Manitowoc Wisconsin on CNW

ljack70117@...
 

Have you forgotten the Missouri At St Louis?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Feb 12, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

CJ Riley notes:

"By standard practice therefore, the
Mississippi was determined to come from the north. In reality, the normal
heavier flow is from the Ohio, so technically, the head of the Allegheny in
western New York (or perhaps the Monongahela in WVA) is the actual beginning
of
the Mississippi and what comes from Wisconsin is some other river."

Precisely. Well...probably not. In fact, the "Fearless Leader" wasn't
thinking at all and violated his normal practice of double checking matters
that are not absolutely clear to everyone [ like...UP frt cars were better
than those of others ]. Incidentally, to hopefully end this examination of
rivers, east of Cairo, IL [ located in the Midwest ], the Tennessee River
flows into the Mississippi...ooops...The Ohio. Back in the 60's during a
particularly bad flood situation on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers, TVA
turned the Tennessee "off". The large number of dams on the Tennessee
allowed this to happen for awhile. TVA was formed originally to control the
continual flooding of the Tennessee. BTW, while the TVA did, indeed, improve
flooding matters a great deal and provided enormous electrical power to the
region [ hence, Oak Ridge and Alcoa, both huge users of electrical power ],
it did not completely end such flooding...as I noted on more than one
occasion. And, now, this terminates the subject of rivers.

Mike Brock




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Drawings

Charlie Vlk
 

Early MRs said J.Harold Geissel was an architect; I am not sure if he was actually licensed, but he might have worked for Kodak in their Buildings Department
as I did for various parts of the Bell System. Many (most?) graduates of Architecture Schools move on to jobs other than individual practice of architecture and
many find work managing construction projects and architects from within the company.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Freight Cars in Manitowoc Wisconsin on CNW

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

CJ Riley notes:

"By standard practice therefore, the
Mississippi was determined to come from the north. In reality, the normal
heavier flow is from the Ohio, so technically, the head of the Allegheny in
western New York (or perhaps the Monongahela in WVA) is the actual beginning of
the Mississippi and what comes from Wisconsin is some other river."

Precisely. Well...probably not. In fact, the "Fearless Leader" wasn't thinking at all and violated his normal practice of double checking matters that are not absolutely clear to everyone [ like...UP frt cars were better than those of others ]. Incidentally, to hopefully end this examination of rivers, east of Cairo, IL [ located in the Midwest ], the Tennessee River flows into the Mississippi...ooops...The Ohio. Back in the 60's during a particularly bad flood situation on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers, TVA turned the Tennessee "off". The large number of dams on the Tennessee allowed this to happen for awhile. TVA was formed originally to control the continual flooding of the Tennessee. BTW, while the TVA did, indeed, improve flooding matters a great deal and provided enormous electrical power to the region [ hence, Oak Ridge and Alcoa, both huge users of electrical power ], it did not completely end such flooding...as I noted on more than one occasion. And, now, this terminates the subject of rivers.

Mike Brock


Re: George Sisk photos appear at Timonium

mjmcguirk@...
 

The same "batch" of photos --obviously not in the B&O binder, but per Bob, from the same source, contained several gems for me -- including a shot of the long-elusive Central Vermont drop bottom gons -- at last I have a nice, clear, side view of these creatures. (Actually, have shots of two different cars.)

Marty McGuirk


George Sisk photos appear at Timonium

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

At Timonium last weekend at Bob's Photos table one of the notebooks was
open to a B&O car that I was pretty sure I did not have. Initially I
thought it was a Col. McCoid photo but the reverse said it was a George
Sisk photo. There were several others which I purchased. The negatives
for these were once owned by the late Charles Winters.

Bob said he had acquired the prints from someone selling B&O prints
through a swap. I am curious if anyone has seen these Sisk photos
resurface anywhere else? Who ever printed them is an excellent printer.

Bill Welch


Re: Freight Cars in Manitowoc Wisconsin on CNW

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

At the risk of perpetuating an off list topic: when stream flow was originally
measured at the junction at Cairo IL, the upper US was in flood so the heaviest
flow was down what is now the Mississippi. By standard practice therefore, the
Mississippi was determined to come from the north. In reality, the normal
heavier flow is from the Ohio, so technically, the head of the Allegheny in
western New York (or perhaps the Monongahela in WVA) is the actual beginning of
the Mississippi and what comes from Wisconsin is some other river.

Maybe that's what Fearless Leader was thinking about.

CJ Riley

--- Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Feb 11, 2007, at 6:55 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Richard Hendrickson notes:

"In short, our list CEO is a great list leader but a lousy geographer."

Well...I dunno about being a great list leader but I just took a look
and...regretfully...even the mouth of the Mississippi [ my fallback ]
looks
to be west of Manitowoc. Too bad. OTOH, I've never claimed Colorado is
in
the East <G>...and, with that, we return to frt cars.



____________________________________________________________________________________
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Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097


Re: Red Caboose X29 patch panels (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Guys;



Most of what has been stated is absolutely correct, and I would only add:



1) Most PRR X29 patch panels were 18" high. Tony is right that it
varied initially, but once they got really going on this program, I think
they settled on a uniform sheet size.



2) A very limited number (I think the earliest repairs) were lapped in
under the existing side sheets, and riveted the whole way across the top.
This makes sense, as the lip would not catch sheeting water running down the
sides, and channel it back into the inside; however, this was a lot more work
than what the vast majority in photos appear to be, which is....



3) Most were simply done as Bruce described, where 18" of sheet was
laid over the entirety of one side on each side of the door (the door stop
and perhaps portions of the lower side sheet having been removed), and
riveted in place with a few rivets, after which the top edge was welded along
the entire top edge. You can see that it was laid out as a continuous sheet
by the fact that there is no lap seam at each existing vertical side sheet
seam.



I took the time to look closely at more than one X29 (and at least one X28A)
with patch panels, as they were always found in MW colors in almost every PRR
yard I ever visited, and accessible to crawl all over.



4) Only a very small number I have seen in photos had the lapped and
riveted version (two), and all the rest were laid over and welded. Also very
few in photos I've seen (and none in person) got repaired with separate
segments on one side of a side. I think Bruce hit it on the nose.



This would make a fascinating modeling project. One could do all the
variations, and perhaps do an early car by grafting on rivets along the top
edge. Hmmm....



Elden Gatwood







_._,___


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Red Caboose X29 patch panels

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

Bruce Smith posted this link
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/prr489539.jpg

Looking at this photo it appears that the patch panels are underneath the
original panels and they appear to be rivited as opposed to welded. My
examination of photos shows quite a bit af variation in how the patches were
applied.

Does anyone know how common was; riveted vs welded and patches attached
underneath vs over top of the original panels.

Thank you,
Ned Carey


Re: Freight Cars in Manitowoc Wisconsin on CNW

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 11, 2007, at 6:55 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Richard Hendrickson notes:

"In short, our list CEO is a great list leader but a lousy geographer."

Well...I dunno about being a great list leader but I just took a look
and...regretfully...even the mouth of the Mississippi [ my fallback ] looks
to be west of Manitowoc. Too bad. OTOH, I've never claimed Colorado is in
the East <G>...and, with that, we return to frt cars.
Now, Mike, I never said that Colorado was in the east. What I said was that, from my perspective as a lifelong resident of the Pacific Coast states, the east begins at the Front Range, and by that reckoning only EASTERN Colorado is in the east; more than half of Colorado is in the west. Eastern Colorado is, both geographically and culturally, actually Western Kansas. To bring this back to freight cars (sort of), railroads like the Rio Grande and (of course) the Union Pacific were western, while railroads like the Rock Island and Missouri Pacific clearly were not. Nor were the Burlington and Chicago & Northwestern, as their lines in Colorado, Wyoming and Montana were all east of the Rockies.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Freight Cars in Manitowoc Wisconsin on CNW

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson notes:

"In short, our list CEO is a great list leader but a lousy geographer."

Well...I dunno about being a great list leader but I just took a look and...regretfully...even the mouth of the Mississippi [ my fallback ] looks to be west of Manitowoc. Too bad. OTOH, I've never claimed Colorado is in the East <G>...and, with that, we return to frt cars.

Mike Brock


MP 50' express car

Bill Vaughn
 

I'm looking for info on the MP 50' express cars in the 353xxx series.
The cars have a fishbelly underframe. I need info on the underframe
and brake rigging. Any help would be appriciated.

Thanks
Bill Vaughn


Re: New HO 1944 "short rib" CMStP&P ribside boxcars.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Tim O'C comments-

Denny I think this is the same car that Intermountain is doing.
There was a model on display at the IRC booth at Springfield.

My understanding is that IM is doing a slightly different version, but which one I do not know. It is not listed on their web page and they are holding their cards close to their vests. I will bet that the intermediate ribs will be included, however. I will also bet that once produced it will be only available assembled.

My question about the Ribside car: did they fix the roof?
:-[ Hmm..ah-h. What was wrong with the roof (up to now I have not been made aware of significant roof deficiencies)? The roof on the 1939 version was "Murphy double panel Type I" while the roof on the 1944 series is supposed to be "Murphy double panel Type II". I am not certain what that difference might be.

There have been criticisms that the end corrugations have flattened tops instead of the expected smooth curves. I think that is true, but in all honesty it will not be noticed unless the car is finished in gloss.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Red Caboose X29 patch panels

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

I've been following this dialogue with some interest. As someone who
fabricates all kinds of things, I was curious to see how the lap seam
overlay was dealt with. After a quick study of the photo of #38494,
it's clear that the patch was simply laid over the lap seam and the
void filled by the welding bead.
Pretty simple.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

On Sun, February 11, 2007 5:06 pm, cobrapsl@... wrote:
Bruce,

I do not doubt what you say, but I have never seen a clear photo
of the
installation as you describe it. I would very much appreciate someone
either sending me a photo scan of this installation, or pointing
me to a
reference photo I can look it up. Furthermore, I continue to have a
problem understanding how you weld over the lap seam with a continuous
piece of plate material, without having a 3/8" gap to deal with at
each
seam, which defies good welding practices. Again, not arguing, I just
want to understand.

Paul Lyons
Hi Paul,

Here's a great shot (it will take some time to load) of a PRR X29 in PC
work service.
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc38494.jpg
The patch being a single piece is obvious.

Other on-line photos that support this (although they are not as
clear) are:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=20446# (requires
subscription)
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/prr489539.jpg
http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PaulT/X29_PRR38482_RRMofPA_PTupaczewski.jpg


Note that the third of these cars is at the RR Museum of PA at Strasburg
and so continues to be available for inspection. I have additional
photos
of that car from Bill Lane, and the single panel nature of the patch is
quite clear. What's also neat about that car is that you can see the
outline of the cut off interior ends of the panels on the exterior
of the
patch

As for how this would be welded? Beats me! "I'm a doctor, not a
welder"<VBG>. Larry? ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Piedmont & Northern cars

destron@...
 

Yes, I've seen Bob's Photo list, and will be writing to get copies of
those pictures.

Art Griffin ( http://www.greatdecals.com/Griffin.htm ) is the only source
I've found for P&N boxcar decals; his is for #1123, and as I've noticed
from the pictures I've seen, one car doesn't look like the next, so I
don't think it's transferable just by changing the numbers. However, it
could still be useful for doing more than one car, in that the set has the
triple lightning-bolt logo in it. I've ordered five sets for myself in TT,
along which for an extra $2 he's including a copy of the photograph he
used in making the decals. I'm looking forward to seeing the photo,
hopefully it's not broadside and one can determine the correct end to use
on the model. He lists it as being from 1923; 1953 ORER lists this series
as still having its full complement of cars of this series - it's very
possible, I think, that this car ran with this lettering until then, given
that other photos of similar liveries were taken at a later date. The '53
ORER lists only this series for the P&N, with the note that they weren't
interchanged. Whether this was always the case or not for this series,
even when there were other series in interchange, I have no idea.

Cheers,
Frank Valoczy
New Westminster, BC

If I remember correctly Bob's photo had a good selection of P&N boxcar
photos. I found the paint schemes most interesting on these cars. Are
there any known decals available? Todd Horton


-----Original Message-----
From: destron@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern cars



I've managed to piece together some information about P&N freight cars.

Dump cars:

In the 1931 Car Builders' Cyc there is on page 437 a photo of a Koppel 20
cubic yard dump car, number 8550. Probably for MoW, and lasted into at
least the 1950s - in the Fetters book there's a picture in which one can
be seen (p144), with no wires over the tracks, marking it as being after
1954.

Is there further information out there besides the 31 Cyc about the
"Koppel 20 cu. yd. Rolling Trunion Type RT-1 Dump Car"? On the same page
of that Cyc is a picture of a Reading car (#91455), identified in the
caption as being of the same type, but 30 cu. yd. There are also other
notable differences between the two, especially the reservoir(s).

Boxcars (1100 series):

The boxcar type with the most information out there is P&N series
1100-1124. 1950 and 1953 ORER lists them as 'steel frame', but this is
perhaps misleading as will become evident further along...

I have information for a few of these cars:

1101: Broadside photo on p165 of the Fetters book shows wood-sided SS car,
U-section Bettendorf or Andrews trucks, door similar to 1102 with small
difference (one pair of ribs has a larger space between them on 1101);
lettering as narrow Roman "Piedmont & Northern" on three lines above the
road number to the left of the door, and the triple-lightning bolt logo in
a circle (one of several versions of this logo I've seen) to the right.

1102: Hutchins ends, double sheathed wood sides after 1954 (no wires in
the photo, which I found online without credit or info). Lettering:
"Piedmont and Northern" inscription on three lines in an art deco-ish
Gothic typeface over the large road number (all to the left of the door),
to the right is a "Service with Courtesy" herald (unlike all the others
I've seen - probably a repainting, as at some point in the late 50s or 60s
they abandoned the triple lightning-bolt logo).

1108: I found a reference to this having Vulcan ends, but have yet to see
the photograph (on someone's list of photos).

1112: Photo in the 1954 P&N in-house publication "Piedmont Prodigy".
Hutchins ends, 6-5-6 doors (different than 1102!), trucks are difficult to
make out but look to be same as 1101. Lettering is "Piedmont & Northern"
on a single arched line centred over "P&N" above the roadnumber to the
left of the door, with the logo the same as on #1101 on the right. But,
this photo confuses the issue a bit as it looks to be steel sided - on all
the other photos I've seen, it's clearly wood sided. It may be just that
the image is too poor to make the lines out, but I doubt that - the
lettering seems undisturbed by grooves, and even some of the small data
can be made out.

1118: Saw mention of a photo of this car, with Hutchins ends. Atlas did a
model in O scale of a car lettered in the "Service with Courtesy" herald.
The ends on the model are incorrect, as they are not Hutchins ends, and I
haven't yet seen the photo of the prototype to say whether the lettering
is correct or not.

Boxcars (12000 or 17000 series)

On page 53 of the Fetters book there is a picture taken sometime in the
1920s of an electric loco in front of a string of P&N boxcars of what look
to be 12000 or 17000 series - single sheathed cars, wooden; the P&N did
have cars in interchange through the 20s and 30s, but whether this type
was or not, I don't know. Silver Streak or Ye Olde Huff and Puff did a kit
of a P&N wooden boxcar in HO scale at some point, numbered 12073, but from
the picture I have of this kit, it seems to be a model of a double
sheathed or an inside-braced car, which the prototype photo disproves (the
photo of the kit shows only a side wall). The other possibility is that
the prototype photo has cars marked in the 17000s, which would provide the
prototype for the early 1980s special run by MicroTrains of outside-braced
boxcars in N scale. This photo is thus far the only one I've found of
either a 12000 or 17000 series of boxcars. (I have photos of all of these
mentioned models).

Boxcars (24000 series):
This is the series that was sold in 1939 to Akron, Canton & Youngstown.
But, from what I've found, 150 were sold to the AC&Y (becoming the 2100
series), but according to the 1930 ORER, the P&N had 165 of them. I have
no idea whether the remaining 15 cars remained on the P&N, or if they were
disposed of some other way, or if the ORER is incorrect (as it sometimes
is). On this note: there seems to be a lot more information about the AC&Y
2100 series out there than any P&N stuff - does anyone know of drawings
and photos of these cars?

Lastly: Atlas made an O scale model of a PS-1 in blue colour, marked as
Piedmont & Northern no. 501. Fantasy? I've seen absolutely nothing to
suggest that the P&N received any new boxcars after dieselization...

If anyone has any further information about any of these cars, it'd be
enormously appreciated.

Frank Valoczy



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!DSPAM:1291,45cfaf4a25684031718339!


Re: Red Caboose X29 patch panels

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, February 11, 2007 5:06 pm, cobrapsl@... wrote:
Bruce,

I do not doubt what you say, but I have never seen a clear photo of the
installation as you describe it. I would very much appreciate someone
either sending me a photo scan of this installation, or pointing me to a
reference photo I can look it up. Furthermore, I continue to have a
problem understanding how you weld over the lap seam with a continuous
piece of plate material, without having a 3/8" gap to deal with at each
seam, which defies good welding practices. Again, not arguing, I just
want to understand.

Paul Lyons
Hi Paul,

Here's a great shot (it will take some time to load) of a PRR X29 in PC
work service.
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc38494.jpg
The patch being a single piece is obvious.

Other on-line photos that support this (although they are not as clear) are:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=20446# (requires
subscription)
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/prr489539.jpg
http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PaulT/X29_PRR38482_RRMofPA_PTupaczewski.jpg


Note that the third of these cars is at the RR Museum of PA at Strasburg
and so continues to be available for inspection. I have additional photos
of that car from Bill Lane, and the single panel nature of the patch is
quite clear. What's also neat about that car is that you can see the
outline of the cut off interior ends of the panels on the exterior of the
patch

As for how this would be welded? Beats me! "I'm a doctor, not a
welder"<VBG>. Larry? ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Kits/Models For Sale

Richard Hendrickson
 

Sorry, Spen; everything you're interested in has already been spoken for. Talk about a feeding frenzy!

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Piedmont & Northern cars

centga@...
 

If I remember correctly Bob's photo had a good selection of P&N boxcar photos. I found the paint schemes most interesting on these cars. Are there any known decals available? Todd Horton

-----Original Message-----
From: destron@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern cars



I've managed to piece together some information about P&N freight cars.

Dump cars:

In the 1931 Car Builders' Cyc there is on page 437 a photo of a Koppel 20
cubic yard dump car, number 8550. Probably for MoW, and lasted into at
least the 1950s - in the Fetters book there's a picture in which one can
be seen (p144), with no wires over the tracks, marking it as being after
1954.

Is there further information out there besides the 31 Cyc about the
"Koppel 20 cu. yd. Rolling Trunion Type RT-1 Dump Car"? On the same page
of that Cyc is a picture of a Reading car (#91455), identified in the
caption as being of the same type, but 30 cu. yd. There are also other
notable differences between the two, especially the reservoir(s).

Boxcars (1100 series):

The boxcar type with the most information out there is P&N series
1100-1124. 1950 and 1953 ORER lists them as 'steel frame', but this is
perhaps misleading as will become evident further along...

I have information for a few of these cars:

1101: Broadside photo on p165 of the Fetters book shows wood-sided SS car,
U-section Bettendorf or Andrews trucks, door similar to 1102 with small
difference (one pair of ribs has a larger space between them on 1101);
lettering as narrow Roman "Piedmont & Northern" on three lines above the
road number to the left of the door, and the triple-lightning bolt logo in
a circle (one of several versions of this logo I've seen) to the right.

1102: Hutchins ends, double sheathed wood sides after 1954 (no wires in
the photo, which I found online without credit or info). Lettering:
"Piedmont and Northern" inscription on three lines in an art deco-ish
Gothic typeface over the large road number (all to the left of the door),
to the right is a "Service with Courtesy" herald (unlike all the others
I've seen - probably a repainting, as at some point in the late 50s or 60s
they abandoned the triple lightning-bolt logo).

1108: I found a reference to this having Vulcan ends, but have yet to see
the photograph (on someone's list of photos).

1112: Photo in the 1954 P&N in-house publication "Piedmont Prodigy".
Hutchins ends, 6-5-6 doors (different than 1102!), trucks are difficult to
make out but look to be same as 1101. Lettering is "Piedmont & Northern"
on a single arched line centred over "P&N" above the roadnumber to the
left of the door, with the logo the same as on #1101 on the right. But,
this photo confuses the issue a bit as it looks to be steel sided - on all
the other photos I've seen, it's clearly wood sided. It may be just that
the image is too poor to make the lines out, but I doubt that - the
lettering seems undisturbed by grooves, and even some of the small data
can be made out.

1118: Saw mention of a photo of this car, with Hutchins ends. Atlas did a
model in O scale of a car lettered in the "Service with Courtesy" herald.
The ends on the model are incorrect, as they are not Hutchins ends, and I
haven't yet seen the photo of the prototype to say whether the lettering
is correct or not.

Boxcars (12000 or 17000 series)

On page 53 of the Fetters book there is a picture taken sometime in the
1920s of an electric loco in front of a string of P&N boxcars of what look
to be 12000 or 17000 series - single sheathed cars, wooden; the P&N did
have cars in interchange through the 20s and 30s, but whether this type
was or not, I don't know. Silver Streak or Ye Olde Huff and Puff did a kit
of a P&N wooden boxcar in HO scale at some point, numbered 12073, but from
the picture I have of this kit, it seems to be a model of a double
sheathed or an inside-braced car, which the prototype photo disproves (the
photo of the kit shows only a side wall). The other possibility is that
the prototype photo has cars marked in the 17000s, which would provide the
prototype for the early 1980s special run by MicroTrains of outside-braced
boxcars in N scale. This photo is thus far the only one I've found of
either a 12000 or 17000 series of boxcars. (I have photos of all of these
mentioned models).

Boxcars (24000 series):
This is the series that was sold in 1939 to Akron, Canton & Youngstown.
But, from what I've found, 150 were sold to the AC&Y (becoming the 2100
series), but according to the 1930 ORER, the P&N had 165 of them. I have
no idea whether the remaining 15 cars remained on the P&N, or if they were
disposed of some other way, or if the ORER is incorrect (as it sometimes
is). On this note: there seems to be a lot more information about the AC&Y
2100 series out there than any P&N stuff - does anyone know of drawings
and photos of these cars?

Lastly: Atlas made an O scale model of a PS-1 in blue colour, marked as
Piedmont & Northern no. 501. Fantasy? I've seen absolutely nothing to
suggest that the P&N received any new boxcars after dieselization...

If anyone has any further information about any of these cars, it'd be
enormously appreciated.

Frank Valoczy



________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


Re: Freight Cars in Manitowoc Wisconsin on CNW

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 11, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Doug Harding wrote:

Last I knew, the entire state of Wisconsin was east of the Mississippi
River. The river actually forms the border between Wisconson on the
east and Iowa and Minnesota on the west. So it would appear neither car
is inviolation. Even if they contained Southern Illinois coal, they
still did not get west of the Mississippi.
In short, our list CEO is a great list leader but a lousy geographer.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Red Caboose X29 patch panels

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
The RC patch panels are absolutely prototypical. Long and intense study of the X29 patch panels indicates that it depends on when the panels were applied and by whom. Early on, you tend to see individual patches such as those you describe and as pictured in Richard's photo. However, when it became obvious that ALL of the panels would eventually need to be patched, the patches were made up of a single piece that stretched from the end to the door and there is plenty of photographic evidence for this as well. Indeed, there is also evidence of panels that were intermediate in size, covering more than one panel, but not the whole side.
Well summarized, Bruce. This was my conclusion from studying photos when I put together my Pennsy freight car modeling clinic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Red Caboose X29 patch panels

Paul Lyons
 

Bruce,

I do not doubt what you say, but I have never seen a clear photo of the installation as you describe it. I would very much appreciate someone either sending me a photo scan of this installation, or pointing me to a reference photo I can look it up. Furthermore, I continue to have a problem understanding how you weld over the lap seam with a continuous piece of plate material, without having a 3/8" gap to deal with at each seam, which defies good welding practices. Again, not arguing, I just want to understand.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: smithbf@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Red Caboose X29 patch panels


On Sun, February 11, 2007 12:28 pm, cobrapsl@... wrote:
The patch panels on the RC kits I do not believe are correctly tooled as a
typical representation of how this repair was carried out.
<snip>
My clear answer of how "patch" panels were
applied came at Cocco Beach this year. Ted Culotta in his presentation had
a photo of an X 29 in just the right sunlight to high-light the "patch"
panels. Although the "patch" panel on this car was the same height all the
way across the bottom, the "patches" were clearly distinct sheets, each
the width of the panel they were "patching", and not one continuous sheet
as represented on the RC model.
<snip>
I await my Pennsy peers thoughts on the matter.........

Paul Lyons
Paul,

The RC patch panels are absolutely prototypical. Long and intense study
of the X29 patch panels indicates that it depends on when the panels were
applied and by whom. Early on, you tend to see individual patches such as
those you describe and as pictured in Richard's photo. However, when it
became obvious that ALL of the panels would eventually need to be patched,
the patches were made up of a single piece that stretched from the end to
the door and there is plenty of photographic evidence for this as well.
Indeed, there is also evidence of panels that were intermediate in size,
covering more than one panel, but not the whole side. If you wish to
model the earlier style patches, you can use self adhesive metal foil for
the individual patches on an original RC body.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



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