Date   

Re: More on Hutchins ends

Frank Greene
 

Frank V. <destron@...> wrote:
Fall 1988, Southern Rails...

Would this still be available through the SRHA? (I understand this was the title of the SRHA magazine before it became Ties? Or am I wrong here?)

Southern Rails was published by the SR Historical Society. The SRHA has the remaining back issues and they're available at http://www.srha.net/public/Grab/grab.asp>.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: PRR Express Boxcars

Dave Lambert <dave@...>
 

Jerry,



I believe at least two did.



They rode on a short wheel-base version of the GSC Commonwealth BX express
truck (with the outboard Houdaille snubber) like their bigger brothers under
the REX 6900-7899 series and GN 2200-series express refrigerator cars. The
difference is that the PRR X-29 trucks didn't have Simplex brakes and hence
were missing the "wings" on the outside of the journal boxes of the trucks.



The two cars (whose numbers I will have to look up, but later) were, I
believe, in dedicated bulk mail service-Columbus to Akron, OH.



Regards,



DGL



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
asychis@...
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:12 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] PRR Express Boxcars



Hi All,

Did the PRR X29s in express service ride on some sort of high-speed truck?
If so, what would be the best truck to use?

Jerry Michels


Re: Chrysler Trucks (was New P2K 50' Boxcars in SP...)

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Would guess that means it was not one of the cars built at Havelock.
They had ASF "Non-Unit" trucks, whatever that means.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Anspach
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 15 February, 2007 10:03
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Chrysler Trucks (was New P2K 50' Boxcars in SP...)


A former USN 50' boxcar in the CSRM collection at Jamestown, CA
rests on Chrysler trucks. Unfortunately, it is in storage and is not
readily available to the casual visitor.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Vulcan ends and the 1922 Car Builder's Cyc

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., destron@... wrote:


In one of the issues of the P&N's in-house magazine Semaphore I received
the other day was a picture of boxcar #1108 immediately after its
refurbishment, at a sharp enough angle to give a very good view of the
end. Somewhere I had read that 1108 carried a Vulcan end, and that 1102,
1112 and 1118 carried Hutchins ends. I had already had an idea of what a
Hutchins end looks like, since I had a picture of 1112.

Not having a clue what a Vulcan end looks like...
Frank,

The end "that looks like a Murphy end but turned sideways" with the
corrugations oriented vertically you mentioned a while back is the
elusive and short lived Vulcan end. It's illustrated in the 1922 Car
Builder's Cyclopedia. It's inferior to any design where the
corrugations run horizontally, as the corrugations are meant to
stiffen the end and transmit the forces to its attachment, but nothing
is provided to further carry the load across the end of the roof. I've
always suspected it was designed to avoid someone's patent, or
potential patent. It didn't stay on the market long, but some were
applied to cars built for a few roads.

I think it was you who asked for a reference on ends, doors, roofs,
etc. The standard reference in the industry, and thus a "primary
source" reference for modelers, is the Car Builder's Cyclopedia series
(originally Car Builder's Dictionary, more recently Car and Locomotive
Cyclopedia) published periodically from the 1870 until the latest
edition in 1997. While the photos and drawings presented were only
intended to be a representative sample, the materials were provided
directly by the manufacturers of the parts. Think of the CBC as the
Thomas Register of car building.

The main problem with trying to use the CBC for research is
availability, very few exist in engineering school libraries,
especially the earlier editions. Originals can bring anywhere from one
to several hundred dollars, and older editions can be fragile. This
has been mitigated somewhat by several reprints of selected editions.
Kalmbach (publisher of Model Railroader magazine) reprinted the 1940
CBC with permission, and Newton K. Gregg did some of the earlier ones.
Doc Denny just offered the Gregg reprint of the 1906 edition for $75.

Gregg also reprinted portions of the late steam era CBC's during the
late sixties as the "Train Shed Cyclopedia" series, taking selected
material from various editions up to 1943, which were, at the time,
public domain due to their Copyrights having expired. A change in the
copyright law, extending the terms of all Copyrights, put an end to
that project.

Recently, a new venture has started making CBC's with newly expired
Copyrights available on CD at a very reasonable price. See:

http://raildriver.com/

I've purchased the 1922 Car Builder's Cyclopedia and am very pleased.
The CD is very well organized, it runs in the web browser of your
choice with a custom written "front end" to access the pages.
Basically, both the table of contents and index have had the page
numbers replaced with hyperlinks that take you to the first listed
page. You can also specify a page number and be taken right there,
then scroll using the "page forward" and "page back" buttons. Each
page is a relatively low resolution .jpg, for fast loading. Clicking
on an image brings up the higher resolution version of that image,
along with a pan and zoom toolbar. There is also a utility included to
print images to scale.

"1922 is kinda early for me", you say? Not really. Most of the odd
pre-standard trucks, ends, and roofs we find on older equipment in the
late steam era were introduced in the period right around WWI, and got
the best coverage when they were recent innovations. This CD is one of
the better references I've found for roofs, showing more different
types, and only lacking the later rigid panel roof that have much
information published elsewhere.

I think for $30 plus shipping, you'll find the answers to a lot of
your questions about the P&N freightcars.

Dennis


Re: Fw: [STMFPH] old metal low side gon

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Don Worthy writes-

The only thing I've found on the bottom is: FG 101. It is possible that
the G is a S...but I don't think so.

It has 10 panel sides and 2 ribbed ends. It measures 41'6" striker face
to striker face.
The sides are 2'5 or 6" from floor to top of sides.
Would anyone have an idea who the maker is?
Or how old it maybe?

This is an MDC (Roundhouse) cast metal car produced between the approximate dates 1955-65. The model number was G-100. One of the cars in my roster is F/P and lettered for the Southern #56492.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: PRR Express Boxcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jerry Michels asked:
"Did the PRR X29s in express service ride on some sort of high-speed
truck?"

Yes; however, while attempts were made to improve the ride of these
cars at high speed using coil-elliptic spring pacakges, coil spring
and snubber packages, Elsey trucks, and GSC BX express trucks (the
last two on very few cars), large numbers of these cars remained on
Class 2D-F8 freight trucks.

"If so, what would be the best truck to use?"

In HO scale:
- Bowser or Kadee 2D-F8
- Bowser 2D-F12
- Walthers GSC BX

The Elsey trucks are a unique leaf-spring design that don't match
anything currently on the market:
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2D-F17-
E418960A.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=


Ben Hom


Re: Chrysler Trucks (was New P2K 50' Boxcars in SP...)

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

A former USN 50' boxcar in the CSRM collection at Jamestown, CA rests on Chrysler trucks. Unfortunately, it is in storage and is not readily available to the casual visitor.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


2007 Sunshine Region Convention

lnnrr <lnnrr@...>
 

For those who might be interested, the 2007 NMRA Sunshine Region
Convention will be in Ocala Florida May 18, 19, and 20. Info at
www.ocalamodelrailroaders.com
Freight car modelers are very welcome. There are a couple of clinic
slots still open if anyone wishes to help spread the word about
Railroad Prototype Modeling or freight cars in general.
Regards,
Chuck Peck


Re: Fw: [STMFPH] old metal low side gon

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Mike,

As others have stated, this is likely a Roundhouse car. Except for cast-on grabs, a slight clunkiness, and sometimes a poor fit of parts, it was one of the better kits in the 1950s. I have one I lettered with decals for Southern (also junk box salvage). Unfortunately, IIRC it has the wrong number of ribs for Southern. Photos of the Southern cars are found in the CBCs and Gregg Reprints, so you can probably check this.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Mike Brock wrote:

Don Worthy sent the following message to the STMFPH by mistake. :


Hey guys, I've found in a junk box a metal low side gon. I don't remember where I got it. I beadblasted it and got several layers of paint off. It looks to be a very nice car. It looks to have been a (screw together)kit.
The only thing I've found on the bottom is: FG 101. It is possible that the G is a S...but I don't think so.

It has 10 panel sides and 2 ribbed ends. It measures 41'6" striker face to striker face.
The sides are 2'5 or 6" from floor to top of sides.
Would anyone have an idea who the maker is?
Or how old it maybe?
I'm hoping it will be close enough to be a Southern low-side gon. I've got to get a look at the two resin kits out now.

Thanks for any help
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.


PRR Express Boxcars

asychis@...
 

Hi All,

Did the PRR X29s in express service ride on some sort of high-speed truck?
If so, what would be the best truck to use?

Jerry Michels


Re: MDT Flat Car with MilkTank Trailers

rckwallaby
 

Thanks to all for your assistance here.
Very helpful.
I also got onto the Milk Trains group and found some additional
advice there.
Now I just have to find some of those references.

Cheers
Phil Morrow.


--- In STMFC@..., Roger Hinman <rhinman@...> wrote:

These cars were built in two lots in 1934 and 1937. They were
developed in conjuction
with Dairyman's League in NYC and the first cars I belive were
assigned to Sheffield
for upstate NY to NYC service. Based on promising results an
additional four cars were built
but the service never lived up to expectations and all the cars
and
trailers were sold off in the 1940s

There are drawings of these cars and many of the mechanical
features
in the NYCHS drawing collection.

Roger Hinman
On Feb 14, 2007, at 10:51 AM, rckwallaby wrote:

...., OMI produced a brass model of
the very fascinating Merchants Despatch flat car which carried two
Milk Tank road trailers. ....> > Phil Morrow




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: More on P&N cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Frank Valoczy wrote:
Well, there's no more Piedmont & Northern, and they're cited as being the publisher (no copyright mention anywhere, but I'm not sure that means anything). I'd assume Seaboard Coast Line took over all their rights after the 1969 merger... would CSX care? Though: wouldn't that "fair use" concept apply?
Rights do not "go away" when a corporation does so. As you say, CSX would probably own them today. Placing photos on a web page is NOT, repeat NOT, of itself fair use.
It could be important that is is no copyright notice, but it depends on the publishing arrangement.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Good photo for early freight cars

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "David Powell" <daveydiesel@...> wrote:

Is that some kind of "buffer" on the coupler end of #22922 ? Dave
Powell
Those are called "deadwood" or "dead blocks" or "buffer blocks"
according to the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary, although they were not
sprung like the buffers used in Europe. At this late date they are
likely iron castings. Their purpose was to keep the switchman from
being crushed to death if the drawheads failed during a hard coupling
(remember, the switchman had to stand between the cars to drop the
pin) but note that they are positioned precisely in the right spot to
amputate his arm while he's guiding the link into the approaching
drawhead. So, to solve the problem of possibly crushing the man, they
design a solution that maims him instead. Nasty business all around,
and the reason the Federal Gov't finally mandated automatic couplers.
Note how close the ends of the coupled cars are.

Dennis


Re: Good photo for early freight cars

David Powell <daveydiesel@...>
 

Is that some kind of “buffer” on the coupler end of #22922 ? Dave
Powell

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
earlyrail
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 8:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Good photo for early freight cars

--- In HYPERLINK "mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com"STMFC@...,
"Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@-...> wrote:

HYPERLINK
"http://lists.elhts.org/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-02-13-07/rf_4700_5900
_series_10-11-07_Scranton.jpg"http://lists.-elhts.org/-erielackphoto.-cg
i?erielack--02-13-07/-rf_4700_5900_-series_10--11-07_Scranton.-jpg

SGL
In both the 1900 and 1905 ORER the 4700 and 5900 series are listed as
box car - ice. Note that there are no roof bunker hatches.

There were 3 series of reefers listed in 1905.
1700-1999 27 ft 115 cars
6500-6599 36 ft 94 cars
6700-6999 36 ft 294 cars
All series are Wickes Patent cars.
All DL&W cars had MCB couplers in 1905

Soemone my want to poost this back to the original EL list

Howard Garner


--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 - Release Date:
2/7/2007 3:33 PM


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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 - Release Date:
2/7/2007 3:33 PM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: More on Hutchins ends

destron@...
 


Al Westerfield's article about the Southern S. U. boxcars (Fall 1988,
Southern Rails) identified both as Hutchins ends.
Would this still be available through the SRHA? (I understand this was the
title of the SRHA magazine before it became Ties? Or am I wrong here?)

The Ann Arbor car has
an
early Hutchins, the P&N car has a revised Hutchins. The Southern's cars
with early Hutchins ends were built 1922 - 1923 and the ones with revised
Hutchins ends were built 1923 - 1924.
Thanks for this info! I'll have to do some further research on these ends,
but I think this might help to date the year of origin for these cars.

Regards,
Frank Valoczy


Re: REA Green

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:

If this helps, the original ACF welded reefers built in 1947-48 used
DuPont 83-4474 Dark Green for the ends and side bands. It's my
understanding the same color continued to be used on repainted cars
during the 1950s until a new lighter green color was introduced
either in the late 1950s or early 1960s. You might ask a DuPont paint
dealer to see if they can cross-reference this paint number to
something that can be mixed with today's formulations. Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Always being curious about pigments I googled "DuPont 83-4474 Dark Green"
and found this url
<<http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=74079&postdays=0&posto
rder=asc&start=0>> which has a bit of a discussion of dupont paints that's
of interest.

And here <<http://utahrails.net/up/dupont-paint.php>> some info on duco and
dulex paints.

Dave Nelson


Re: More on Hutchins ends

Frank Greene
 

Frank V. <destron@...> wrote:
I've become a bit puzzled with regards to the Hutchins end after studying the photo someone linked me to from here illustrating the Hutchins end on an Ann Arbor boxcar along with several photos of cars from P&N's 1100 series.

http://www.geocities.com/polivokspsychosis/tt/endcomp.jpg

In the above link is a picture I quickly put together of two car ends, the Ann Arbor car with the Hutchins end, and a P&N car (1113), and for the first time I noticed a difference - take a look at the ends of the four 'ribs' on the ends: on the AA car, these ribs taper to a narrower point, but on the P&N cars they do not taper. Got me to thinking it did. Does anyone know if these P&N ends are just a variation of the Hutchins end, or are they something else?

Al Westerfield's article about the Southern S. U. boxcars (Fall 1988, Southern Rails) identified both as Hutchins ends. The Ann Arbor car has an early Hutchins, the P&N car has a revised Hutchins. The Southern's cars with early Hutchins ends were built 1922 - 1923 and the ones with revised Hutchins ends were built 1923 - 1924.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: REA Green

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:20 AM, RICH NUNN wrote:

Dear Mr. Hawkins and other listers:
Thank you for the very nice presentation in the Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia on the area of the 50 foot express refrigerator cars. On
page 60, volume 7, you show a color photo of REA car # 1225. The
verbage included in the phot only refers to the color as "Dark Green".
Would you care to comment on the color and the shade of the "dark
green" in the photo? I don't believe my painter has this book- and I
need to tell him what the color might be. I don't have a scalecoat
color chart available.
Rich,
I don't know of a good way to describe "dark green" that can be used to
replicate a color for painting a model. While I have spent considerable
time trying to locate paint samples for REX cars, I've not found any.
If this helps, the original ACF welded reefers built in 1947-48 used
DuPont 83-4474 Dark Green for the ends and side bands. It's my
understanding the same color continued to be used on repainted cars
during the 1950s until a new lighter green color was introduced either
in the late 1950s or early 1960s. You might ask a DuPont paint dealer
to see if they can cross-reference this paint number to something that
can be mixed with today's formulations.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Old metal low side gon.

Edwin C. Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
 

Beyond all doubt that old Die cast metal gondola is
one of several gondolas that Model Die Casting Co.
made in there Roundhouse Products line that date
back to the late nineteen forties and early fifties.

I have four of those low side gons in my collections.
One is lettered Southern another for the Erie and two
lettered for the N&W in two different numbers. The
Southern car is painted a Boxcar red, others are black.

The FG-101 on the bottom of underframe was the mold
cavities number also their part number.

This underframe was also used on their High side cars,
of which I have several also.

The resin kit now available in both HO and S scales has 12
panels and is accurate for the Southern low side gons in two
eras. Far superior to that model of eons ago.
Edwin C. Kirstatter, B&O Modeler.


Re: More on P&N cars

destron@...
 

Well, there's no more Piedmont & Northern, and they're cited as being the
publisher (no copyright mention anywhere, but I'm not sure that means
anything). I'd assume Seaboard Coast Line took over all their rights after
the 1969 merger... would CSX care? Though: wouldn't that "fair use"
concept apply?

Frank Valoczy

John Golden wrote:
I'd like to see photos of those P&N cars from the magazine, and I'm
sure there wouldn't be a copyright problem if you scanned them and
uploaded them to the site . . .
On what basis do you draw this conclusion, sir?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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