Date   

Re: Speedwitch Freight Car book

Brian Botton
 

On Sat, 2007-02-24 at 00:09 -0500, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
No confusion exhibited so far . . .

I have them both, and they're valued additions to my library.

SGL
I hope you guys are not confusing the Culotta/Kline freight car
book, published by the NMRA, with the Hendrickson freight car book,
published by Culotta. I can understand the possibility of
confusion,
but these ARE different books.
That's right, no confusion on my part.

Brian Botton


Mainline Modeler back issue sale

Andy Carlson
 

I have found that up to 5 issues fit in a $4.05 flat mail envelope, and $1.00 will ship a single magazine by media mail.



I have the following issues of Hundman's Mailine Modeler magazines offered for sale. More than one copy is noted with an (*), all others are limited to single copies. Priced at $2.00 each, plus $4.05 priority shipping for up to 5 issues, or $1.00 media mail for 1 issue. If more than one copy is desired, I will quote the shipping charge. All are in good condition. Better than good issues will be marked with a (+), while slightly less than good condition will earn a (-). Contact me at <midcentury@...> Thanks,
-Andy

1980...Sep/Oct*+
1981...Jan/Feb*+ Mar/Apr May/Jun*
1982...Jan/Feb+ April+ Aug/Sep*+- Oct-
1983...Aug
1984...Jul+ Sep+ Oct+ Dec*+-
1985...May+ Oct+ Nov+ Dec*+
1986...Jun+ Oct Nov+
1987...Jan Apr+ Oct*+
1988...Mar+
1989...Apr Jun+ Sep
1990...Jan*+ Apr+ Jun Sep+
1991...NONE
1992...Mar* Jun*+ Aug Oct+


Re: Chalk marks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Del Vecchio wrote:
Legend has it that a 19th Century car inspector in Potomac Yard in Alexandria, Va., would chalk his name on railcars, O.K. Dokes, supposedly the origin of the phrase "Okay."
This is a legend for sure. There has been much effort to find the origins of "OK" but this one is not among the better candidates. The term "OK" is known to have been used as early as 1839. Those interested in more can look it up at Wikipedia.org under the topic "Okay."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Speedwitch Freight Car book

Schuyler Larrabee
 

No confusion exhibited so far . . .

I have them both, and they're valued additions to my library.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 11:39 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Speedwitch Freight Car book

I hope you guys are not confusing the Culotta/Kline freight car
book, published by the NMRA, with the Hendrickson freight car book,
published by Culotta. I can understand the possibility of confusion,
but these ARE different books.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@... <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Speedwitch Freight Car book

Tony Thompson
 

I hope you guys are not confusing the Culotta/Kline freight car book, published by the NMRA, with the Hendrickson freight car book, published by Culotta. I can understand the possibility of confusion, but these ARE different books.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Focus on Freight Cars

Brian Botton
 

On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 22:18 +0000, ed_mines wrote:
I hope the first book in the series is selling well. When can we
expect
the second one?
Good question! How about it?

Brian Botton


Re: Santa Fe & Union Pacific Sample Cars

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@> wrote:

What I meant to ask was:

Maybe you can answer another question: Many of the ORER entries
say "Z bar"; if I remember correctly, I saw these for DS, SS, and
steel cars. Just what are they? Does the term apply just to cars
with Z bar eaves as you discussed above? I assume their
importance is
that they affect clearance or capacity?
Larry,

A brief history of the Z bar eave. All off the top of my head;
anyone
who needs dates will have to research them himself.

In the beginning... House cars were framed like houses. The roof
carlines mounted to the top of the side plates, and the roof
sheathing
overhung the side, where it was finished with a rather prominent
fascia, wich served to divert the water past the top of the side
sheathing. This continued when car frames went from wood to steel,
as
the roof was usually still a wood sheathed affair, covered with thin
sheet metal.

This overhanging fascia tended to make the eaves the widest part of
the carbody, and the tables in the ORER were set up to reflect this,
giving a single set of dimensions that located the corner of the
roof.

With the advent of solid steel roofs, where the panels were a
structural part of the roof, this overhanging eave construction
became
unnecessarily complex. Someone hit upon a very elegant solution;
replace the steel angle top plate of the side framing with a Z
section
laying on its side. The lower flange now lapped over the side,
doing a
nice job of shedding water away from the side construction, while
the
roof panels could be fastened to the upward facing flange. Since
the Z
bar was solid piece, it didn't leak, even though the roof no longer
overhung the side construction. The ARA thought this was such a
significant improvement that they purchased the rights to the
design,
and made it available to their membership royalty free.

This construction can be (and was) used on any steel framed car, be
it
double sheathed, singled sheathed, or steel sheathed, so that fact
that a car has "Z bar eave" construction can't answer that question.

The widespread adoption of Z bar eave construction presented the
publishers of the ORER with a problem, however. There were now two
corners at the top of the side where before there was only one.
Since
the clearance diagram angles in at the upper corners, either one of
these corners had the potential to hit something, so both needed to
be
dimensioned, especially after railroads and carbuilders pushed the
roof up the couple inches the notch in the corners made possible, so
the dual dimensions were included in the ORER, to more accurately
describe the clearances required to accommodate the car.

Dennis
This is a very clear and concise explanation, Dennis. It all makes
sense now. Thank you very much!

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: "Z" Bar ORER Entries

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

The "Z" Bar notation is in reference to cars built utilizing the "Z"
bar
side plate. The ARA's drawings covering the details are including
within the
Editorial Section of the ORER. I don't know if these are included
in the CD
version, but should be within your printed copy (post 1930).

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI
Thanks, Guy. I found the diagram in the NMRA reprint of the 1953 ORER.

Best wishes

Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Santa Fe & Union Pacific Sample Cars

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

What I meant to ask was:

Maybe you can answer another question: Many of the ORER entries
say "Z bar"; if I remember correctly, I saw these for DS, SS, and
steel cars. Just what are they? Does the term apply just to cars
with Z bar eaves as you discussed above? I assume their importance is
that they affect clearance or capacity?
Larry,

A brief history of the Z bar eave. All off the top of my head; anyone
who needs dates will have to research them himself.

In the beginning... House cars were framed like houses. The roof
carlines mounted to the top of the side plates, and the roof sheathing
overhung the side, where it was finished with a rather prominent
fascia, wich served to divert the water past the top of the side
sheathing. This continued when car frames went from wood to steel, as
the roof was usually still a wood sheathed affair, covered with thin
sheet metal.

This overhanging fascia tended to make the eaves the widest part of
the carbody, and the tables in the ORER were set up to reflect this,
giving a single set of dimensions that located the corner of the roof.

With the advent of solid steel roofs, where the panels were a
structural part of the roof, this overhanging eave construction became
unnecessarily complex. Someone hit upon a very elegant solution;
replace the steel angle top plate of the side framing with a Z section
laying on its side. The lower flange now lapped over the side, doing a
nice job of shedding water away from the side construction, while the
roof panels could be fastened to the upward facing flange. Since the Z
bar was solid piece, it didn't leak, even though the roof no longer
overhung the side construction. The ARA thought this was such a
significant improvement that they purchased the rights to the design,
and made it available to their membership royalty free.

This construction can be (and was) used on any steel framed car, be it
double sheathed, singled sheathed, or steel sheathed, so that fact
that a car has "Z bar eave" construction can't answer that question.

The widespread adoption of Z bar eave construction presented the
publishers of the ORER with a problem, however. There were now two
corners at the top of the side where before there was only one. Since
the clearance diagram angles in at the upper corners, either one of
these corners had the potential to hit something, so both needed to be
dimensioned, especially after railroads and carbuilders pushed the
roof up the couple inches the notch in the corners made possible, so
the dual dimensions were included in the ORER, to more accurately
describe the clearances required to accommodate the car.

Dennis


Re: Speedwitch Freight Car book

Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
 

It has one less as of 8:45 pm eastern time! :-)

Will Seehorn
Cary, NC

At 07:17 PM 2/23/2007, you wrote:

Caboose Hobbies still had about 6 copies on the shelf as of last Saturday
(when I bought mine).

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: 2/23/2007 1:26 PM


Re: Chalk marks

MDelvec952
 

In a message dated 2/22/2007 4:29:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
WDarnaby@... writes:

Armand, you're right that chalk marks were seldom erased (and in some
cases lasted for weeks or months before they were erased/obscured by
weather and dirt). However, prototype photos often show chalk marks
that were crossed out; apparently that was the practice whenever a
chalk mark was regarded as potentially confusing. Richard Hendrickson


Wow, lots of contribution to chalk marks. There were lots of reasons for
chalk marks, and on those rare days I cover a train service job these days I
still carry a paint stick to apply something interesting to today's tank cars.
I can add some real life to the mix that relates to the steam days:

When I started in train service I worked with an old CNJ man, Walter Switz,
and at that time we blocked our outbounds for Conrail. After pulling the daily
10-15 tank cars from the various racks for shippment, he'd walk along and
write the destination railroad (either NS or CSX) on each car, usually near
one end of the car so that he could easily see it while reaching for the cut
lever later on. A fan of the old days and old ways, I bought some sidewalk
chalk (1" diameter sticks) and continued the tradition when I was conducting.
When I got better at making up trains I found I could remember numbers and
blocks so I stopped taking the time to do it, and later on we no longer needed to
block our outbounds. But back in the steam days, a lot of conductors would
mark cars for the same reason. Another old-timer's trick for remembering
cuts on strings of cars was to put a stick or a rag, piece of ballast or
whatever debris that was handy on the running board or grab iron -- when your
make-shift-marker came back you could see your cut far enough in advance to give
the engineer a good count down to a stop for the cut.

Every car that comes into our facility gets looked at by a team of car
inspectors. Each will chalk a date on the brake reservoir, usually just a month
and day, 2/24, so that the others on his team know that someone looked at the
car. Since many of ours are a captive fleet, the regular cars come in with
dozens of dates on the reservoirs. The new dates are always brighter than any of
the older ones. I've seen lots of this on steam era freight cars. These
Union Tank Car employees use either white or yellow chalk, which fades to gray
when the car comes back usually four weeks later. Legend has it that a 19th
Century car inspector in Potomac Yard in Alexandria, Va., would chalk his name
on railcars, O.K. Dokes, supposedly the origin of the phrase "Okay."

Many railroaders chalk names or figures other markings on cars for
amusement, and some of them are quite clever. I haven't seen much of these in early
steam era photos, but in the '50s, '60s and '70s it seemed to get popular.
Drawings such as Herbie and Bozo Texino are legends among trainmen. My favorite
is Colossus of Roads. (Google them if you're curious.) Again, in pursuit of
seeing what such things were like in the old days I came up with a couple
little caracatures that I would draw on railcars. One was a Jersey Tomato with
a little phrase on it. After 9/11 I started drawing the World Trade Center
with a patriotic complement. One thing I learned with these drawings, which
explains why the old ones were as simple as they were, is that they have to be
completed quickly. These drawings were usually applied as the trains were
being made up, so while one trainman was making the hitch and the air, the other
was making his little drawing. You have to finish before the train starts
moving. Bozo and Herbie were both simple drawings, the former was actually one
continuous line. Herbie was supposedly an acronym for Helping Every
Railroader Become Injury Efficient, according to a former-PRR/Amtrak man I worked
with who collected such lore, and hand signals (he knew more hand signals from
more railroads than I thought could ever exist.) He would kid about his
crusty old coworkers -- "you could sure tell a Penn man, but you couldn't tell him
much!"

Mike Del Vecchio
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.


Re: Speedwitch Freight Car book

Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
 

Caboose Hobbies still had about 6 copies on the shelf as of last Saturday
(when I bought mine).

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:Speedwitch

On Feb 23, 2007, at 11:15 AM, Dave Nelson wrote:

Ted Culotta wrote:

Finally, the
book The Postwar Freight Car Fleet is sold out at both NMRA and with
me.
Oh my... I've not acted upon this yet. Ted, do you know if there will
a
second printing?


Re: Santa Fe & Union Pacific Sample Cars

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

What I meant to ask was:

Maybe you can answer another question: Many of the ORER entries
say "Z bar"; if I remember correctly, I saw these for DS, SS, and
steel cars. Just what are they? Does the term apply just to cars
with Z bar eaves as you discussed above? I assume their importance is
that they affect clearance or capacity?


Re: Santa Fe & Union Pacific Sample Cars

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@> wrote:


Interestly, in all three ORER entries, even though the series is
just
a single car, alternative values are listed for Outside Width at
Eaves (8'10" or 9'7") and for Outside Height to Eaves (12'11 or
12'9) - I'm not sure how a single car can have alternative values
of
these dimensions!!!
Larry,

These aren't alternate dimensions, they're multiple dimensions. This
was often done in the listings for cars with Z bar eaves, since the
category asks for the width, "At eaves or top of sides", which are
at
different places on these cars. The way it reads, the car is 8'-10"
wide at a point 12'-11" from the rail, which would be over the roof
panels attached to the upper leg of the Z, and 9'-7" wide at a point
12'-9" from the rail, which would be the actual top of the side.

The extreme width is wider still, as it is measured over the door
hardware or ladders, whichever is wider

Dennis
Thank you very much, Dennis. That clears up a big question I had as
I was digitizing the ORER, because a lot of entries had 2 (and
sometimes 3) "alternate" values.

Maybe you can answer another question: Many of the ORER entries
say "Z bar"; if I remember correctly, I saw these for DS, SS, and
steel cars. Just what are they? Does the term apply just to cars
with Z bar eaves as you discussed above? Sometimes they are listed
for Inside Height, for example. I assume their importance is that
they affect clearance or capacity?

Thanks, Larry


Re: Chalk marks

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Richard,

In my old and declining brain I remember the IHB's as rectangular and
only about 3"x4" or maybe slightly larger. While I saved a lot of junk
that is one thing that I never thought of saving.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2007 15:03
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Chalk marks



On Feb 22, 2007, at 8:06 PM, Jared Harper wrote:

> --- In STMFC@..., jaley <jaley@...> wrote:
> I guess my real question
>> is whether we should use bright white bits of decal, or "off-white"
> bits
>> of decal to represent these cards.
>
> Also, how big are the "bits?"

Destination cards appear in photos to have been about 4" to 6" square.

Richard Hendrickson


Mainline Modeler back issue sale

Andy Carlson
 

I have the following issues of Hundman's Mailine Modeler magazines offered for sale. More than one copy is noted with an (*), all others are limited to single copies. Priced at $2.00 each, plus $4.05 priority shipping, or $3.00 media mail. If more than one copy is desired, I will quote the shipping charge. All are in good condition. Better than good issues will be marked with a (+), while slightly less than good condition will earn a (-). Contact me at <midcentury@...> Thanks,
-Andy

1980...Sep/Oct*+
1981...Jan/Feb*+ Mar/Apr May/Jun*
1982...Jan/Feb+ April+ Aug/Sep*+- Oct-
1983...Aug
1984...Jul+ Sep+ Oct+ Dec*+-
1985...May+ Oct+ Nov+ Dec*+
1986...Jun+ Oct Nov+
1987...Jan Apr+ Oct*+
1988...Mar+
1989...Apr Jun+ Sep
1990...Jan*+ Apr+ Jun Sep+
1991...NONE
1992...Mar* Jun*+ Aug Oct+


Re: Speedwitch

bill_d_goat
 

--- In STMFC@..., "RichBeau" <RichBeau@...> wrote:

Caboose Hobbies has a few copies left.

--Rich Beaubien
Just called and ordered one. Thanks
Bill Williams


Focus on Freight Cars

ed_mines
 

I hope the first book in the series is selling well. When can we expect
the second one?

Ed


Re: Speedwitch

RichBeau <RichBeau@...>
 

Caboose Hobbies has a few copies left.

--Rich Beaubien


Re: Chalk marks - modeling

Tim O'Connor
 

Ned, I think I always use the pencil after the final flat clear coat. Are
you trying to use the pencil on a glossy surface? That may not work
as well.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ned Carey" <nedspam@...>
Richard Hendrickson and Tim O'Connor spoke of using pencils for chalk marks. I
have tried several brands of pencils to make these and just can't get it to work
well. The pigment just doesn't stick well enough for me. But when it works it
loks the best.

135061 - 135080 of 195499