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Re: New version of digital ORER is available - Canadian RR's

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

Larry,

The footnotes pertaining to the NYC on pages 338-339 & 347 of the
1949
Blue Book states that figures for operation cover the whole 10,735
miles
on line including 489 miles in Canada.

Tim Gilbert
Hi Tim

Yes, I saw that footnote while I was adding the ICC regional
information to my own version of the ORER file. Since the footnote
you cite did not mention CASO, whereas the one I cited did, the
latter took precedence for me.

For those of you who want CASO (and perhaps the Algoma Central, the
Ma and Pa, and assorted other cars) restored, I'll post an additional
file to STEFA that contains just these records, which you can append
to the ORER file.

The reason I excluded the Canadian and Mexican lines in the first
place was because I read (or thought I read) in various posts to this
group that they were subject to "embargoes" that prohibited the free
flow of their cars within the U.S. And what I wanted from the file
was to be able to reconstruct a "background fleet" of cars traveling
over Sherman Hill in September 1949. This "background fleet" is your
own idea, by the way, to which I subscribe. It amounts to the
proposition that so much mixing of boxcar ownership occurs that we
can reasonably model the fleet by just using the national
proportions. (There are regional and local effects as well, of
course.)

So bottom line: Are CASO cars subject to the same embargo as CP cars?
Or do their 291 cars have about the same chance of crossing The Hill
as the 292 cars of the Green Bay and Western?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: New version of digital ORER is available - Canadian RR's

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@ wrote:

According to the ICC, CASO (489 miles in Canada) was part of the
NYC and
reported as such in their Annual Statistical Reports commonly
called
"the Blue Books."
Larry Ostresh wrote:

I included CASO in Version 1 of the ORER because I knew from the ORER
that it was part of the NYC. I removed it from Version 2 because of
footnote 2 in the 1949 ICC Blue Book, page 563:

"2 Files no report; Canadian road. Name inserted to show corporate
relation of subsidiary road as indicated."

The entry that it footnotes reads "Canada Southern Ry. Co.: 2/Niagara
River Bridge Co___ ... Operated by N.Y.Cent. R.R. under its lease of
Mich. Cent. R.R." The location of the footnote number following CASO
rather than the Bridge company made me think the footnote applied to
CASO. Am I wrong?

(This is the only reference to CASO listed in the Index to Railways
in the 1949 Blue Book.)
Larry,

The footnotes pertaining to the NYC on pages 338-339 & 347 of the 1949 Blue Book states that figures for operation cover the whole 10,735 miles on line including 489 miles in Canada.

Tim Gilbert


Re: New version of digital ORER is available - Canadian RR's

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

According to the ICC, CASO (489 miles in Canada) was part of the
NYC and
reported as such in their Annual Statistical Reports commonly
called
"the Blue Books."
I included CASO in Version 1 of the ORER because I knew from the ORER
that it was part of the NYC. I removed it from Version 2 because of
footnote 2 in the 1949 ICC Blue Book, page 563:

"2 Files no report; Canadian road. Name inserted to show corporate
relation of subsidiary road as indicated."

The entry that it footnotes reads "Canada Southern Ry. Co.: 2/Niagara
River Bridge Co___ ... Operated by N.Y.Cent. R.R. under its lease of
Mich. Cent. R.R." The location of the footnote number following CASO
rather than the Bridge company made me think the footnote applied to
CASO. Am I wrong?

(This is the only reference to CASO listed in the Index to Railways
in the 1949 Blue Book.)

Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


New version of digital ORER is available - Canadian RR's

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Yes, Tim, you've read what I was hoping for correctly. I'm happy to receive Larry's work as a starting point for my own backdated/Canadianized version.... Not sure when I'll have time to actually make it happen, but ....

Rob Kirkham


Re: freight car books

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Doug Gardner wrote:
Now that the Culotta postwar freight car book os sold out, is there anything left on the
market that is as wide ranging in coverage?
We have a couple of books on our web site (URL below) if you aren't aware of them. And coming soon (now at the printer in fact) is Kaminski's new book on Pullman-Standard freight cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: New version of digital ORER is available - Canadian RR's

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Rob Kirkham asked:

I wonder if you'd be able to post a version that includes the
Canadian content?
Larry Ostresh responded:

It's just two records from the Algoma Central and one from CASO, Bob -
not worth posting a whole different file. I'll be happy to send these
records to you if you want.
According to the ICC, CASO (489 miles in Canada) was part of the NYC and reported as such in their Annual Statistical Reports commonly called "the Blue Books." Other US RR's having operations in Canada according to the 1950 Blue Book included the MEC (5 miles), WAB (245 miles), PRR (2 miles), C&O-PM (552 miles), GN (223 miles), and NP (74 miles).

Algoma Central was outside the purview of the ICC as were the Canadian operations of CN, CP, PGE, etc. which appear to be the things Rob Kirkham is seeking. CP's operations in Maine (234 miles) and Vermont (90 miles) and CN's operations between the VT/QU line and Portland (172 miles) were incorporated into the Blue Books as US Operations. Operations of CN subsidiaries such as the CV, GTW & DW&P, and CP majority owned subsidiaries such as the SOO, WC and DSS&A were included in the ICC's Blue Books.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Lehigh Valley Wartime Composite Hoppers

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Jim Brewer observed that the LV cars are different in design than the Wabash cars. That doesn't
mean George's question should not be answered. I cannot do so, however.

SGL

Following the recent discussion on the Wabash cars does
anyone know how
long the Lehigh Valley Composite cars lasted before being rebuilt?
Thanks,
George Courtney


Re: New version of digital ORER is available

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Paul

Did you download and save it and then try to open it? If not, try
that. Also: Rather than QuatroPro, you might try opening it using the
MS Works spreadsheet that comes free with Windows (at least I think it
comes free). If you (or anyone else) continues to have problems, I can
email you the file.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Lehigh Valley Wartime Composite Hoppers

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

George,

The articles referenced related to the starndard AAR Emergency Composite 50-Ton Hoppers, and the charts therein deal with only those railroads who owned cars of that standard design.

Part One indicates that the Lehigh Valley cars, series 14001-14560 and 14561-14999 were constructed to a design other than the AAR Emergency Composite design. The article does mention that while "some LV cars had the same inside length as the AAR Standard design, the side configuration was noticeably different."

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: George
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:41 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Lehigh Valley Wartime Composite Hoppers


Following the recent discussion on the Wabash cars does anyone know how
long the Lehigh Valley Composite cars lasted before being rebuilt?
Thanks,
George Courtney


Re: New version of digital ORER is available

Larry Kline
 

Larry Ostresh wrote:
I revised the Excel version of the July 1950 ORER and uploaded it to
the STEFA files.
and Paul Hillman replied:
My computer won't open the file.

Larry, Thanks very much to you and all who contributed to making this
info available and complete.

Paul, The file opens for me in Excel for Mac 2001 on a Mac running OS X
10.3.9 and in Excel 97 on a PC running Windows Me.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: New version of digital ORER is available

Tim O'Connor
 

Paul

I just set up my new Dell XP PC a few days ago, and it opened
right up for me - with Excel.

The name of the file name is: ORER_7_1950_Box_Auto V2.xls
Larry,
My computer won't open the file. It says, "not a valid Win32
application." I try to open in with Quattro(R) Pro 12, but it says the
above. My computer is a one year old Dell, with XP.
Sorry if this is OT, but maybe others are having this problem too.
Thanks, Paul Hillman


Re: anthracite hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

We have many small "windows" into the past...of different types from photos
to frt conductor books. These "windows" provide us with "leads" but it's
difficult to be confident with conclusions that might be drawn. To add to
the confusion of this case, I have photos of MP hoppers in Laramie in the
early 50's. Should we jump to conclusions about their cargo? Not me.
Mike Brock

I do know MP and Southern hoppers came into Pueblo on the MP. During
the beet season open hoppers were in great demand and you could see a
real mish-mosh of different owners' cars loaded with beets. And coal
was loaded on the 'Colorado & Wyoming' branch out of Laramie; I don't
know if any of it was sent to CF&I in Pueblo. I'm not speculating;
just suggesting a possible routing to look up as a way that MP (or
Southern, or N&W) hoppers may have ended up in Laramie...

As for Tony's idea of MP cars in Utah, I have to say I'm amazed how
hard it is to find photos of the diverse cars that could be found at
the USS Geneva steel works in Provo. Many parts of the mill and the
freight yards were very visible from public roads. Freight car fans
are just a tiny minority of the railfanning public, I guess.

Tim O'Connor


Re: New version of digital ORER is available

Paul Hillman
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

The name of the file name is: ORER_7_1950_Box_Auto V2.xls
Larry,

My computer won't open the file. It says, "not a valid Win32
application." I try to open in with Quattro(R) Pro 12, but it says the
above. My computer is a one year old Dell, with XP.

Sorry if this is OT, but maybe others are having this problem too.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


freight car books

radius158
 

Now that the Culotta postwar freight car book os sold out, is there anything left on the
market that is as wide ranging in coverage?

Doug Gardner


Re: anthracite hoppers

Greg Martin
 

Oh Tom,

Before I get put in STMC_Jail for off topic here is a shot my brother took
in Las Vegas (the route of the coal for Fontana) and this "ain't-no" MP car and
I am sure it was not hauling Anthracite either. Just caught in service for
hire...

_http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/beautiful/819/Ed/H43/Ed_H43.htm_
(http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/beautiful/819/Ed/H43/Ed_H43.htm)

And the later it got in the life of the haul the more mixed cars were in the
train. I have many, many, shots of this train with all types of equipment
pulling it and acting as helpers, and all types of cars hauling those black
diamonds

Greg Martin

In a message dated 3/3/2007 12:50:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
timboconnor@comcast.net writes:

While it's true that much Fontana coal and ore came from Utah, I have
not seen photos of MP hoppers on the Rio Grande or UP in that area. I
think it's idle speculation in the absence of photos.

Tim O'Connor



<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.


Re: New version of digital ORER is available

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
I wonder if you'd be able to post a version that includes the
Canadian
content?

Rob Kirkham
It's just two records from the Algoma Central and one from CASO, Bob -
not worth posting a whole different file. I'll be happy to send these
records to you if you want.

Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Lehigh Valley Wartime Composite Hoppers

George Courtney
 

Following the recent discussion on the Wabash cars does anyone know how
long the Lehigh Valley Composite cars lasted before being rebuilt?
Thanks,
George Courtney


New version of digital ORER is available

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Hi Larry,

I wonder if you'd be able to post a version that includes the Canadian content?

Rob Kirkham


Re: anthracite hoppers

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Could also be petroleum coke from the Coffeyville KS area.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 03 March, 2007 19:43
Subject: Re: [STMFC] anthracite hoppers


Tim O'Connor wrote:
> While it's true that much Fontana coal and ore came from
Utah, I have
> not seen photos of MP hoppers on the Rio Grande or UP in
that area. I
> think it's idle speculation in the absence of photos.

Tim is right: I have not seen Mopac hoppers in
photos at the
Colorado/Utah mines either, though I have not particularly
searched
them. I was indeed speculating, though on the basis of
other inter-road
cooperation between D&RGW and MP. As pointed out, the
Mopac coal may
well have come from somewhere else.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press,
Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



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Re: New file uploaded to STMFC

Rob Adams
 

Gene;

I have an HO Proto 2000 model that I need to modify the paint on (paint over the black roof and ends). I went out to the STMFC files section to take a look but don't see this file. Any chance you could e-mail it to me?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards, Rob Adams

Eugene E. Deimling wrote:


I posted a photo showing part of the only known remains of a C&IM
Mather car. The picture was taken in a barn but it clearly shows
the unique Mather design features and the color. The end of this
car was a "freight car red" color.
I also have a frame from a movie showing the same class of car with
orange-like sides with a yellow repaint spot.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Copy of matherside1.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@...>
Description : Recent shot of a C&IM Mather boxcar stored in a
barn shows a yellow color clearly.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Copy%20of%
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Copy%20of%>
20matherside1.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
<http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files>

Regards,

losgatos48 <losgatos48@...>
--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@netins.net
Modeling the CB&Q RR's Keokuk & Western branch, along with connecting Wabash and CRI&P operations, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>

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