Date   

Re: Going Bananas ...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 21, 2007, at 6:33 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

BTW, Dave, though I can't speak for Richard, I don't dislike the
Pennsy, I just find its fans excessively reverent towards it. Poking
fun at such people is irresistible. Fact is, the Pennsy had plenty to
be humble about, as did nearly all railroads.
Now that I'm back on the list after a trip out of town (to Hawaii, in fact), I can speak for myself on this subject. I entirely agree with Tony, and I will add that I have always found the pretentiousness of the PRR's mechanical department during the steam era to be both unwarranted and annoying (as did the mechanical officials of many other RRs). With regard to freight cars, the PRR's claim to be the "standard railroad of the world" bordered on the ludicrious, as almost all of their freight car designs, though often built in very large numbers, were unique, eccentric, and seldom copied by other RRs. It didn't help that PRR's J. Harold Geisel, who chaired the ARA committee on car construction in the 1920s, was notoriously arrogant and abrasive, a fact which helps to explain why the proposed 1924 ARA steel box car, based on the PRR's X29, failed to be approved as a standard design.

Through the 1920s and 1930s, the PRR persisted in building cars with roofs, underframes, trucks, etc. of obsolete in-house design which were notably deficient by comparison with contemporary car building practice. They were still building undersize X29s in 1934 with roofs that were prone to leak, truck sideframes that were prone to crack, and side sheathing that trapped water and rusted out. And as late as 1941, they were building X37s on what was essentially the X29 underframe, long after the superiority of the AAR standard box car underframe had been well demonstrated. Meanwhile, they were continuing to assert that PRR engineering was superior to everyone else's.

Of course, it was also the case that all of the PRR's steam loco designs after the mid-1920s were disasters, some worse than others, though that is off-topic, so I won't dwell on it.

The pre-eminence of the Pennsy, both its operating and mechanical departments, peaked early in the 20th century and rapidly declined thereafter owing to arrogance and bad management, with the post-World-War-I squandering of capital on its ill-conceived electrification project hastening its eventual demise. So I think it is fair to say that, In the era most of us on this list model, the Pennsy's size made it an important railroad but, in many particulars, it fell far short of being a great railroad.

It's not hard to understand why the PRR has been, and continues to be, popular with a large number of modelers; it was a very large RR that served a sizable and heavily populated part of the country, and much of its rolling stock was distinctive in design. So I have no quarrel whatever with those who model it, a number of whom I count among my personal friends, as long as they avoid the tendency of their prototype railroad to be excessively pretentious.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Tichy USRA boxcar weights

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Your kit must have shipped without the nuts. Go to a Home Depot/Lowes and
get some replacements, or just weigh the car and add lead to suit NMRA
specs.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni



From: James Mischke <jmischke@worldnet.att.net>
Organization: Panther Hollow Press
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:35:18 -0700
To: Steam Era Freight Car Group <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Tichy USRA boxcar weights







I notice that the Tichy USRA boxcar kit has no weights. The
floor does have hexagonal ridges to accept a pair of hex nuts.
The directions are silent on weights.

What size hex nuts accomodate these features? Are they about
an ounce each? Is that hex nut size good for boxcars in
general?


Tichy USRA boxcar weights

James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

I notice that the Tichy USRA boxcar kit has no weights. The
floor does have hexagonal ridges to accept a pair of hex nuts.
The directions are silent on weights.

What size hex nuts accomodate these features? Are they about
an ounce each? Is that hex nut size good for boxcars in
general?


Re: Going Bananas ...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Peter J. McClosky wrote:
David, David, David...
How can you say that Tony doesn't like the Pennsy?
I was once at a meeting where Tony gave a talk on Modeling the Pennsy!
It was titled (some like) "Modeling the Pennsy... Without Brain Damage" ;>)
Yep, that's the exact title. A true Pennsy freight car expert, Gary Rauch, sat through it once (it DOES contain some abuse of Pennsy shortcomings), and afterwards I asked him, with a little trepidation, what he thought. "Well," he said, with downcast eyes, "it hurt but it was all true."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Going Bananas ...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
I totally disagree with you on color and taste. Anything past yellow with a bit of green in is beyond good taste. I love them green with the yellow just starting to break. But that is me. Black is ready for the garbage pail. But my wife will eat most any color banana.
There is, of course, no accounting for taste <g>. If you ever have a banana daiquiri in the tropics, Larry, don't watch them make it: they use a really black banana (inside as well as outside) to get the really intense, sweet banana fruit taste. In my opinion, it's a GREAT drink. But then, I do like bananas, while my wife is happy to skip anything with bananas in it.
Maybe Mike can help here--is this conceivably getting off topic ???

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: C&NW's Wood Street Terminal/ The Potato Yard

Tim O'Connor
 

direct link:
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/albums/userpics/10101/Wood-Street-Chgo.jpg

looks to me like some judicious airbrushing has 'cleaned up' the
place a bit

Tim O'Connor

At 3/21/2007 12:05 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
While reviewing the June 2002 issue of RAILMODEL JOURNAL I came
across a 1920s photo of C&NW's Wood Street Terminal in Chicago. This
facility also was known as "The Potato Yard".

The image shows scores of reefers and an ice deck. There is no
storage terminal building visible. Instead, the tracks for unloading
reefers are in pairs with space between each pair of tracks for
trucks to be loaded directly from the cars.

Fortunately, you won't have to look for the magazine as one can
locate the same image on the C&NW Historical Society's website.


Re: Going Bananas ...

Peter J. McClosky <pmcclosky@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
A search thru the archives will turn up several old threads where banana
shipments were discussed in detail. I don't recall if any dealt with
your question specifically but there certain was discussion about ports,
preferred carriers, shipment routes, service levels, and the obligatory
side track of why Richard and Tony don't like the Pennsy. 8-)

Dave Nelson
===






David, David, David...

How can you say that Tony doesn't like the Pennsy?

I was once at a meeting where Tony gave a talk on Modeling the Pennsy!

It was titled (some like) "Modeling the Pennsy... Without Brain Damage" ;>)

Peter
"With Tongue firmly held in cheek!!"

--
--
Peter J. McClosky
http://home.earthlink.net/~pmcclosky
pmcclosky@comcast.net


Re: Going Bananas ...

ljack70117@...
 

Yesssssssssssss. ANDddddddddddd
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Mar 21, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@adelphia.net

Never put bananas in the refrigerator means after they are ripened.
They will turn black. Ship bananas at 45/50 degrees while they are
green if you want to keep them green. Higher degrees will start them
ripening.
----- Original Message -----

On of our graduate assistants in college had worked on the docks in Taiwan.
He was there when a banana ship opened up it hold after setting the
thermostats to 45C, rather than 45F. . .

KL




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: C&EI "Magor" copies

Tony Thompson
 

Russ Strodtz wrote:
"While it has nothing to do with waycars, I thought the SLSF was the road that had been involved with the C&EI for many years."
Paul Hillman replied:
According to Edward DeRouin's, "C&EI In Color", page 9;
"Frisco purchased C&EI on Oct. 1, 1902."
Then,........;
,...apparently in 1913,...."...Frisco dragged the C&EI into bankruptcy and a court appointed receivership."
Then,........;
"On Dec. 13, 1920 the C&EI was reorganized."
After that time, I don't see the SLSF mentioned again as being
involved with the C&EI.
According to the Kalmbach "Historical Guide" book, that's all correct. In 1926 the Van Sweringens acquired control of C&EI but didn't do much with it. In 1940 the road was again reorganized and in 1959 began merger discussions with Missouri Pacific (with which it had enjoyed friendly relations for some time). Mopac acquired control in 1963 and merged the C&EI into itself in 1976.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Going Bananas ...

ljack70117@...
 

Tony
I totally disagree with you on color and taste. Anything past yellow with a bit of green in is beyond good taste. I love them green with the yellow just starting to break. But that is me. Black is ready for the garbage pail. But my wife will eat most any color banana.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Mar 21, 2007, at 5:15 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Andy Miller wrote:
Chiquita used to say:
"NEVER put bananas in the refrigerator!"
I assume she had box cars in mind.
It's already been explained that this refers to ripe ones. And for
those who don't know, the skin of a ripe or nearly ripe table banana
turning brown or black does NOT affect the interior, at least not for
several days. So you don't really "ruin" the banana in the
refrigerator, though it's understandably not very salable in a market
with darkened skin.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Going Bananas ...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:
My understanding is that the majority of the bananas came in thru East Coast and Gulf ports...n[snip] Were bananas shipped without refridgeration in the STMFC era?
Dave Nelson replied:
A search thru the archives will turn up several old threads where bananna shipments were discussed in detail. I don't recall if any dealt with your question specifically but there certain was discussion about ports, preferred cariers, shipment routes, service levels, and the obligatory side track of why Richard and Tony don't like the Pennsy. 8-)
There are specific details in the PFE book (p. 372). Recommended shipping temperatures are tabulated on p. 345. No need to read the opinions of past posts <g>.
BTW, Dave, though I can't speak for Richard, I don't dislike the Pennsy, I just find its fans excessively reverent towards it. Poking fun at such people is irresistible. Fact is, the Pennsy had plenty to be humble about, as did nearly all railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: C&EI "Magor" copies

Paul Hillman
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@...> wrote:

"While it has nothing to do with waycars, I thought the SLSF
was the road that had been involved with the C&EI for many
years."

Russ Strodtz
********************************************************************
Russ,

According to Edward DeRouin's, "C&EI In Color", page 9;

"Frisco purchased C&EI on Oct. 1, 1902."

Then,........;

,...apparently in 1913,...."...Frisco dragged the C&EI into
bankruptcy and a court appointed receivership."

Then,........;

",...on May 27, 1913, the court placed Frisco and C&EI into separate
receiverships.

Then,........;

"On Dec. 13, 1920 the C&EI was reorganized."

After that time, I don't see the SLSF mentioned again as being
involved with the C&EI.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Re: C&EI Wood Cabooses

Paul Hillman
 

Jerry Michels wrote:

"Do you have numbers for these wood cabooses you are interested in?"
********************************************************************
Jerry,

I don't have any numbers, so far, other than what appear in Edward
DeRouin's book, "C&EI RR In Color".

On page 13, the number appears to be 338 or 339. On page 38, to me, it
is unreadable.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Re: Going Bananas ...

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:
My understanding is that the majority of the bananas came in thru
East Coast and Gulf ports...n[snip] Were bananas shipped without
refridgeration in the STMFC era?

A search thru the archives will turn up several old threads where bananna
shipments were discussed in detail. I don't recall if any dealt with your
question specifically but there certain was discussion about ports,
preferred cariers, shipment routes, service levels, and the obligatory side
track of why Richard and Tony don't like the Pennsy. 8-)

Dave Nelson


Re: Going Bananas ...

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@adelphia.net

Never put bananas in the refrigerator means after they are ripened.
They will turn black. Ship bananas at 45/50 degrees while they are
green if you want to keep them green. Higher degrees will start them
ripening.
----- Original Message -----

On of our graduate assistants in college had worked on the docks in Taiwan. He was there when a banana ship opened up it hold after setting the thermostats to 45C, rather than 45F. . .

KL


Re: C&NW's Wood Street Terminal/ The Potato Yard

Jack Mullen
 

Unfortunately, referencing a specific photo in the CNWHS archives is
difficult. Bob's link won't get you there.

best I can offer is a link to the photo archive:
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/search.php
then enter the search string "Wood Street" in the box, and the search
will get you to the photo in question.

As Bob says, there is no storage building. Potatoes went direct from
reefer to truck, thus the concrete driveways between pairs of tracks.
The admin building at left in the photo provided office space for
vegetable brokers as well as railroad clerks. There are truck scales
and scalehouse in the driveway in front of the office bldg.

As far as I know there was no ice platform at the Spud Yard. After
all, it was a terminal for inbound perishables. I think what's
visible in the photo is a covered unloading platform.

Jack Mullen



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Chaparro" <thecitrusbelt@...>
wrote:

While reviewing the June 2002 issue of RAILMODEL JOURNAL I came
across a 1920s photo of C&NW's Wood Street Terminal in Chicago. This
facility also was known as "The Potato Yard".

The image shows scores of reefers and an ice deck. There is no
storage terminal building visible. Instead, the tracks for unloading
reefers are in pairs with space between each pair of tracks for
trucks to be loaded directly from the cars.

Fortunately, you won't have to look for the magazine as one can
locate the same image on the C&NW Historical Society's website. The
images can be seen at:

http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?
album=search&cat=0&pos=0

or

http://tinyurl.com/32vlnk

Bob Chaparro
Moderator
Citrus Industry Modeling Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/citrusmodeling/


catalog off line

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

I'm in the process of uploading a new catalog to the web site so don't be surprised if the site in unavailable for some time. For some reason I get the message FORBIDDEN when I try to access it.... - Al Westerfield


Re: Reefer Hatches (Reefers Going To The Wesy Coast)

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

W T Rawleigh made health products such as salves, ointments, and
liniments; and food products which included flavorings, extracts,
spices, and seasonings which, I believe, were sold by door-to-door
salesmen. It was an international company with the home office in
Freeport, IL. So much of the outbound traffic was lcl, that a roller
type conveyor was built from the Rawleigh factory into the IC freight
house at Freeport.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Chaparro" <thecitrusbelt@...>
wrote:

Chet- What were the W T Rawleigh products going to the west coast?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Mission Viejo/Hemet, CA

==========================================
When I went to work in 1960 on the IC, I always observed what was
going on at the Chicago Produce Terminal (CPT) as our train
passed
by. There was always several piles of body ice alongside cars,
and
broken cases and pallets lying on the ground next to open cars.
Don't
know if they were picked up and disposed of, or thrown back into
the
cars after they was unloaded. The IC (and ATSF) switchmen who
worked
the CPT jobs never had to go into the produce department at their
local grocery stores. Mty PFE's were used at Freeport, IL for
years,
for loading W T Rawleigh products going to the west coast. The
carmen inspected the mty's to find the cleanest and driest cars
for
this loading.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Going Bananas ...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Miller wrote:
Chiquita used to say:
"NEVER put bananas in the refrigerator!"
I assume she had box cars in mind.
It's already been explained that this refers to ripe ones. And for those who don't know, the skin of a ripe or nearly ripe table banana turning brown or black does NOT affect the interior, at least not for several days. So you don't really "ruin" the banana in the refrigerator, though it's understandably not very salable in a market with darkened skin.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Reefer Hatches (Reefers Going To The Wesy Coast)

toddsyr <toddsyr@...>
 

The following site documnets the early beginnings of the W T Rawleigh Company.

http://www.stephcohs.org/rawleigh_kitchen.htm

I just thought you might like to know of the company from it's beginnings.

Todd K. Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Chaparro
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Reefer Hatches (Reefers Going To The West Coast)
Chet- What were the W T Rawleigh products going to the west coast?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Mission Viejo/Hemet, CA

==========================================
> When I went to work in 1960 on the IC, I always observed what was
> going on at the Chicago Produce Terminal (CPT) as our train passed
> by. There was always several piles of body ice alongside cars, and
> broken cases and pallets lying on the ground next to open cars.
Don't
> know if they were picked up and disposed of, or thrown back into
the
> cars after they was unloaded. The IC (and ATSF) switchmen who
worked
> the CPT jobs never had to go into the produce department at their
> local grocery stores. Mty PFE's were used at Freeport, IL for
years,
> for loading W T Rawleigh products going to the west coast. The
> carmen inspected the mty's to find the cleanest and driest cars for
> this loading.
>
> Chet French
> Dixon, IL
>

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