1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
  2. Messages
   Date   
Re: heating reefers in freezing weather

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Russ Strodtz wrote:
I do not recall any that did. Heaters usually used alcohol for fuel which burns very clean.
In earlier days, prior to the 1930s or later, charcoal was used. But I have never seen any sign of chimneys. The closed-car conditions, of course, resulted in significant carbon monoxide being produced. Can you image trying to introduce such a system today?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: heating reefers in freezing weather

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Ed,

I do not recall any that did. Heaters usually used alcohol
for fuel which burns very clean.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 10:38
Subject: [STMFC] heating reefers in freezing weather


Did reefer heaters have a chimney which extended above the roof
of the
car?

I can remember one picture which shows smoke pipes with rain
hats
extending above a reefer's hatches.

Did these heaters make much soot visible from the outside? When
I was a
kid (1950s) they used smudge pots to mark road construction.
They were
black as could be.

Ed
Re: dimensions of Z braces

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Ed,

A quick look produced a diagram for the "Z" braces used on
CB&Q stock cars from the 30's thru 60's. Right now it's
a 5.5mb image. Could reduce it in size by 50% and send if
you wish.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 10:29
Subject: [STMFC] dimensions of Z braces


What were the dimensions of typical Z braces used on the
exterior of
freight cars?

I think they are oversized on most models.

I was surprised to find that what we call "hat braces" (stamped
braces)
are marked as "1/4 inch plate" on drawings in CBCs.

Single sheathed box cars are barely discernable from a distance
in some
yard photos.

There's an aerial photo of Scranton, PA taken in 1935 on an EL
internet
group. You can barely make out the outside braces on said cars
but a
Swift reefer with full car length billboard stands out.

Ed




Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Going Bananas ...

armprem
 

Tim,IMHO it was a matter of "long haul", as opposed to"Short haul ".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Going Bananas ...


>
>>The pre-eminence of the Pennsy, both its operating and mechanical
>>departments, peaked early in the 20th century and rapidly declined
>>thereafter owing to arrogance and bad management, with the
>>post-World-War-I squandering of capital on its ill-conceived
>>electrification project hastening its eventual demise.
>
> Oh that's just silly. The SP had "ill-conceived elecrification"
> projects, and built large new passenger terminals long after the
> decline in passenger traffic was well under way. I agree the PRR
> was arrogant, but so were most other railroads -- pride and tunnel
> vision were widespread traits of railroad management.
>
> The PRR, NYC, B&O, NH, B&M, Erie, Lackawanna, LV -- ALL of them
> declined precipitously following WWII. And all of the western roads
> thrived in the 20 years after WWII. Gee, could it have something to
> do with the population explosion in the west, and the shifting of
> industry to wide open spaces where longer hauls were the norm? If it
> hadn't been for Powder River coal and trade with Asia, we'd have
> had a western version of the pre-Conrail meltdown by now...
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 8:07 AM
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Going Bananas ...

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Ripe bananas were a good deal for tug boat crews moving car floats of reefers loaded with bananas from Standard Fruit, pier 3 East River to W. 72nd St. and Weehawken. If they were yellow they wouldn't last as far as a supermarket shelf. When I rode a tug while I was working for NYC developing a schedule to expedite banana movement, I went home with all the yellow bananas I could carry.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
Re: Going Bananas ...

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Now that I'm back on the list after a trip out of town (to Hawaii, in
fact), I can speak for myself on this subject. I entirely agree with
Tony, and I will add that I have always found the pretentiousness of
the PRR's mechanical department during the steam era to be both
unwarranted and annoying (as did the mechanical officials of many
other RRs). With regard to freight cars, [snip... Many paragraphs of
Richard smooshing an overripe bannana into the face of the Pennsy, it's
executives, mechanical engineers, Phoaming Pennsy Phreaks, signature and
Yahoogroups advertisements, all trimmed for brevity).

See? Banannas do it every time! <VBG>

Dave Nelson
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "DR Stinson" <dano@...> wrote:
PRM ?

Prototype Railroad Modeling from Speedwitch (Ted Culotta)
heating reefers in freezing weather

ed_mines
 

Did reefer heaters have a chimney which extended above the roof of the
car?

I can remember one picture which shows smoke pipes with rain hats
extending above a reefer's hatches.

Did these heaters make much soot visible from the outside? When I was a
kid (1950s) they used smudge pots to mark road construction. They were
black as could be.

Ed
dimensions of Z braces

ed_mines
 

What were the dimensions of typical Z braces used on the exterior of
freight cars?

I think they are oversized on most models.

I was surprised to find that what we call "hat braces" (stamped braces)
are marked as "1/4 inch plate" on drawings in CBCs.

Single sheathed box cars are barely discernable from a distance in some
yard photos.

There's an aerial photo of Scranton, PA taken in 1935 on an EL internet
group. You can barely make out the outside braces on said cars but a
Swift reefer with full car length billboard stands out.

Ed
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dan Stinson asked:
"PRM ?

Professional Railroader Magazine?
People Racing Mules?
I guess it doesn't translate as well to some of us. Could we have a
hint?"

PRM = Prototype Railroad Modeling Journal
http://www.speedwitch.com/Journal.htm


Ben Hom
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

D R Stinson
 

Can anyone identify the white load in the gon on the right on the cover
of PRM col. 2?
PRM ?

Professional Railroader Magazine?
People Racing Mules?
I guess it doesn't translate as well to some of us. Could we have a hint?

Dan Stinson
Helena, Montana

Acronyms are our modern Tower of Babel.
________________________
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

ED,

It appears to be bundles of steel/ metalic items wraped against weather.

Fred Freitas

ed_mines <ed_mines@...> wrote:
Can anyone identify the white load in the gon on the right on the cover
of PRM col. 2?

Ed






---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
Clinton Andrews

ed_mines
 

Does anyone know the disposition of Mr. Andrews negative collection?

I asked about buying prints from him about 1980; I think he was gone by
then but someone in his family sent me a contact print of a box car.

Ed
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Ed,

My first impression would be some kind of forgings that
have been wrapped in canvas. Can not see how it could be
any kind of bulk commodity.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 09:57
Subject: [STMFC] cover of PRM vol. 2


Can anyone identify the white load in the gon on the right on
the cover
of PRM col. 2?

Ed




Yahoo! Groups Links
cover of PRM vol. 2

ed_mines
 

Can anyone identify the white load in the gon on the right on the cover
of PRM col. 2?

Ed
Re: C&NW's Wood Street Terminal/ The Potato Yard

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tim,

Wood Street also handled Onions. From the number of
open hatches this may be the Onion end of the layout
or a shot during the small Spring or Fall periods
when potatoes could be handled with ventilation only.

The freight yard to the left belong to the C&NW.
Beyond and to the left of it was the B&OCT Lincoln
Street Coach Yard and the Robey Street Roundhouse.

To the right of this photo, (Which is facing East
towards downtown), there were at least six or seven
more pairs of tracks which would have gradually gotten
longer. Between the South border of the Wood Street
terminal and the CB&Q main was the CB&Q Western Ave
roundhouse where all passenger power was serviced.

Off in the smoke in the distance would have been the
C&NW Morgan Street unloading area for produce in general.
At that point the C&NW and CB&Q were side by side on
the same elevation above the streets. The CB&Q had a
small produce unloading area at Racine Ave. almost
directly across from Morgan Street.

Moving further East the C&NW mains lined up directly
with the St Charles Airline. The CB&Q connected with the
Airline via crossovers at the Union Avenue interlocking.

While the C&NW and CB&Q shared the same elevation the
B&OCT was about a block North on it's own. The SOO and
CGW also used the B&OCT trackage. The two double track
bridges over the Chicago river were side by side.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 21:37
Subject: Re: [STMFC] C&NW's Wood Street Terminal/ The Potato
Yard



direct link:
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/albums/userpics/10101/Wood-Street-Chgo.jpg

looks to me like some judicious airbrushing has 'cleaned up' the
place a bit

Tim O'Connor
Re: Going Bananas ...

Tim O'Connor
 

The pre-eminence of the Pennsy, both its operating and mechanical
departments, peaked early in the 20th century and rapidly declined
thereafter owing to arrogance and bad management, with the
post-World-War-I squandering of capital on its ill-conceived
electrification project hastening its eventual demise.
Oh that's just silly. The SP had "ill-conceived elecrification"
projects, and built large new passenger terminals long after the
decline in passenger traffic was well under way. I agree the PRR
was arrogant, but so were most other railroads -- pride and tunnel
vision were widespread traits of railroad management.

The PRR, NYC, B&O, NH, B&M, Erie, Lackawanna, LV -- ALL of them
declined precipitously following WWII. And all of the western roads
thrived in the 20 years after WWII. Gee, could it have something to
do with the population explosion in the west, and the shifting of
industry to wide open spaces where longer hauls were the norm? If it
hadn't been for Powder River coal and trade with Asia, we'd have
had a western version of the pre-Conrail meltdown by now...
C&EI-Frisco Relationships

asychis@...
 

This was part of B. F. Yoakum's short-lived empire that fell apart in the
1920s. One of the major results was that the Missouri Pacific was able to buy
the Gulf Coast Lines. This is why we had frieght cars on the MoPac until around
1956 with StLB&M, NOT&M, I-GN (to an extent) and other reporting marks.

Jerry Michels



************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Re: C&EI Wood Cabooses

asychis@...
 

Paul,

C&EI cabooses 320-339 were built by Mount Vernon Car Company, Mount Vernon,
IL, in 1913. Their dimensions were 29' 6" long, 8' 5" wide and 6' 3" high. 323
and 328 were sold to the Minneapolis Northfield and Southern in June 1951.
The rest were retired in the mid 1940s through the 1950s. 326 and 338 were the
last to go, sometime before 1/24/61. This information is in the caboose book
in the roster section. The information came from C&EI documents in the
Missouri Pacific records kept in the salt mines in Hutchinson, KS. I was fortunate
enough to be allowed to visit there in the 1980s before the lawyers locked it
down.

Jerry Michels



************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Re: Going Bananas ...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote (in the midst of perfectly sensible comments):

. . . It didn't help that PRR's J. Harold Geisel, who chaired the ARA committee on car
construction in the 1920s, was notoriously arrogant and abrasive . . .
I think the name you meant to type was W.F. Kiesel. Geisel was someone else. But your description of Kiesel is right on target.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
133521 - 133540 of 194661