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Re: dimensions of Z braces

Charlie Vlk
 

Russ-
Actually, we have all the rairoad drawings for the cars....supplied them to Hundman for the drawings he did for Mainline Modeler.
I have the car drawn up in SolidWorks and have run a test shot of a one piece body.... stand alone roofwalks, open slats, full underbody
framing, etc... the machine wasn't working properly so one end was mushed in the build, but when the owner of the machine gets some
free time we'll try for a final set of masters designed for resin casting...in N, Z and probably T Scale (new 1:480 proportion 3mm track gauge
coming out of Japan). HOers already have had the Sunshine and Overland cars so probably don't need them....
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dimensions of Z braces


Charlie,

Looks to me like the SM19's used three different sizes of
braces. Can probably find the SM18's if you are interested.

Russ Strodtz
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Vlk
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 13:07
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dimensions of Z braces

I can, with some authority, tell you that In the 1960's the size
of a typical Z brace was one size below what Northeastern offered
their milled wood line.... the main reason I abandoned trying to
model the CB&Q in HO and went into N Scale, figuring nobody in
their right mind would ever try to model a prototype in that
scale...
...oh well, it was a good idea at the time even if it didn't
last very long before I was back to modeling the Q, but now in N
Scale!!
Now to get that fleet of SM18 stock cars (in N Scale!) with
those really too small Z braces I am using Rapid Prototyping....
better than scratchbuilding a fleet of cars!!!
Charlie Vlk

What were the dimensions of typical Z braces used on the
exterior of
freight cars?

.
Re: Going Bananas ...

mjmcguirk@...
 

Oh, I don't know about that Tony . . . Considering the reaction of several Santa Fe fans I know to Rick Johnson's beautiful color rendering -- "The Galloping Geese of the Santa Fe". The Warbonnet Goose, was of course, the best looking . . . As I recall, Andy didn't think the Catwhisker Yellow on the early freight paint scheme looked correct . . .

Marty
Re: Going Bananas ...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

cj riley wrote:
While I can readily attest to Tony's appreciation for things Pennsy, I know he is not reluctant to tweak the noses of the SPFs (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks) as anyone who has seen his beautiful model of a GG1 in glorious Daylight colors.
The wonderful thing, amply demonstrated by that model, is the astonishing response when you tweak their noses. No other road's fans come close.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Going Bananas ...

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

While I can readily attest to Tony's appreciation for things Pennsy, I know he
is not reluctant to tweak the noses of the SPFs (Slobbering Pennsy Freaks) as
anyone who has seen his beautiful model of a GG1 in glorious Daylight colors.


CJ Riley



____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

D R Stinson
 

PRM = Prototype Railroad Modeling Journal
http://www.speedwitch.com/Journal.htm
Thanks, Ben and Ed !!

Dan Stinson
Helena, Montana
Re: C&NW's Wood Street Terminal/ The Potato Yard

Charlie Vlk
 

I don't think there is a "ice deck" in the photo. The structure in the far right side of the yard looks like a covered loading dock,
not an icing platform or stage.
Loads did not originate out of Wood Street (for the most part) although in the C&NW film I seem to recall
a demonstration of a loaded car having shaved ice blown into it from a truck mounted rig. Any loads sent
out of Woods Street were most likely shipments to local wholesalers (Peoria, Joliet, etc.?) from brokers
who reloaded the cars here...so truck or wagon based icing may have sufficed for that business.
Charlie Vlk
Re: Going Bananas ...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 21, 2007, at 9:18 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote (in the midst of perfectly sensible comments):

. . . It didn't help that PRR's J. Harold Geisel, who chaired the ARA
committee on car
construction in the 1920s, was notoriously arrogant and abrasive . . .
I think the name you meant to type was W.F. Kiesel. Geisel was
someone else. But your description of Kiesel is right on target.
Thanks for the correction, Tony. I could explain my confusion, but the explanation would be even more confusing. Let's just say I shouldn't write off the top of my head at a late hour in the evening.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: dimensions of Z braces

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Charlie,

Looks to me like the SM19's used three different sizes of
braces. Can probably find the SM18's if you are interested.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Vlk
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 13:07
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dimensions of Z braces


I can, with some authority, tell you that In the 1960's the size
of a typical Z brace was one size below what Northeastern offered
their milled wood line.... the main reason I abandoned trying to
model the CB&Q in HO and went into N Scale, figuring nobody in
their right mind would ever try to model a prototype in that
scale...
...oh well, it was a good idea at the time even if it didn't
last very long before I was back to modeling the Q, but now in N
Scale!!
Now to get that fleet of SM18 stock cars (in N Scale!) with
those really too small Z braces I am using Rapid Prototyping....
better than scratchbuilding a fleet of cars!!!
Charlie Vlk

What were the dimensions of typical Z braces used on the
exterior of
freight cars?


.
Re: heating reefers in freezing weather

ljack70117@...
 

All the heaters I inspected did not have stacks. The top of the heater had a round ring about 3 or 4 inches round and about 3 or 4 inches high. Heaters did not burn with a fire. They used charcoal and glowed like a Bar-B-Que.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Mar 22, 2007, at 11:38 AM, ed_mines wrote:

Did reefer heaters have a chimney which extended above the roof of the
car?

I can remember one picture which shows smoke pipes with rain hats
extending above a reefer's hatches.

Did these heaters make much soot visible from the outside? When I was a
kid (1950s) they used smudge pots to mark road construction. They were
black as could be.

Ed




Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: dimensions of Z braces

Charlie Vlk
 

I can, with some authority, tell you that In the 1960's the size of a typical Z brace was one size below what Northeastern offered their milled wood line.... the main reason I abandoned trying to model the CB&Q in HO and went into N Scale, figuring nobody in their right mind would ever try to model a prototype in that scale...
...oh well, it was a good idea at the time even if it didn't last very long before I was back to modeling the Q, but now in N Scale!!
Now to get that fleet of SM18 stock cars (in N Scale!) with those really too small Z braces I am using Rapid Prototyping.... better than scratchbuilding a fleet of cars!!!
Charlie Vlk

What were the dimensions of typical Z braces used on the
exterior of
freight cars?


.
Re: heating reefers in freezing weather

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@...> wrote:
I do not recall any that did. Heaters usually used alcohol
for fuel which burns very clean.
It's only one photo that I can recall. My recollection is FGE reefers
on the LV.

Ed
Re: dimensions of Z braces

ed_mines
 

Thanks to all who answered.
--- In STMFC@..., Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...> wrote:
I checked a 1925 "Car Builders Cyclopedia" and found a drawing of a
Milwaukee Road 40-foot, single-sheathed automobile car with Z-bar
sidetrusses. The Z-bars stand out 3-3/8" from the wood siding, and
the flanges
are about 2-1/2" wide, for an overall width of approximately 5".
From eyeballing then the braces provided in the HO scale Q'Craft
model of this car are right on - about 1/16" wide and 1mm deep.

Look at the drawings of an AA single sheathed box car in vol. 2 of
PRM.The Z braces look much smaller to me. Ditto for some of the
drawings in the RMC plan book.

Looking at the drawings in the CBC I have handy (couldn't find my
Trainshed reprints) it looks like the Z braces are 1/16" on the
drawings which are significnatly larger than HO scale. So maybe more
than 1 size was used.

That's why I asked if anyone examined this in the flesh. I'm sure
there are a few of these cars in museums.

Ed
Re: dimensions of Z braces

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Ed,

I checked a 1925 "Car Builders Cyclopedia" and found a drawing of a
Milwaukee Road 40-foot, single-sheathed automobile car with Z-bar side
trusses. The Z-bars stand out 3-3/8" from the wood siding, and the flanges
are about 2-1/2" wide, for an overall width of approximately 5". The end of
the car has two larger Z-bars as end posts extending up from the center
sill. They're about 6" deep with flanges of about 3". Diagonal Z-bars
flanking the end posts are smaller and look to be the same as in the side
trusses. I don't know how typical these measurements are, but the car looks
pretty typical for this type of construction.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142
Re: heating reefers in freezing weather

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Russ Strodtz wrote:
I do not recall any that did. Heaters usually used alcohol for fuel which burns very clean.
In earlier days, prior to the 1930s or later, charcoal was used. But I have never seen any sign of chimneys. The closed-car conditions, of course, resulted in significant carbon monoxide being produced. Can you image trying to introduce such a system today?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: heating reefers in freezing weather

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Ed,

I do not recall any that did. Heaters usually used alcohol
for fuel which burns very clean.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 10:38
Subject: [STMFC] heating reefers in freezing weather


Did reefer heaters have a chimney which extended above the roof
of the
car?

I can remember one picture which shows smoke pipes with rain
hats
extending above a reefer's hatches.

Did these heaters make much soot visible from the outside? When
I was a
kid (1950s) they used smudge pots to mark road construction.
They were
black as could be.

Ed
Re: dimensions of Z braces

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Ed,

A quick look produced a diagram for the "Z" braces used on
CB&Q stock cars from the 30's thru 60's. Right now it's
a 5.5mb image. Could reduce it in size by 50% and send if
you wish.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 March, 2007 10:29
Subject: [STMFC] dimensions of Z braces


What were the dimensions of typical Z braces used on the
exterior of
freight cars?

I think they are oversized on most models.

I was surprised to find that what we call "hat braces" (stamped
braces)
are marked as "1/4 inch plate" on drawings in CBCs.

Single sheathed box cars are barely discernable from a distance
in some
yard photos.

There's an aerial photo of Scranton, PA taken in 1935 on an EL
internet
group. You can barely make out the outside braces on said cars
but a
Swift reefer with full car length billboard stands out.

Ed




Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Going Bananas ...

armprem
 

Tim,IMHO it was a matter of "long haul", as opposed to"Short haul ".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Going Bananas ...


>
>>The pre-eminence of the Pennsy, both its operating and mechanical
>>departments, peaked early in the 20th century and rapidly declined
>>thereafter owing to arrogance and bad management, with the
>>post-World-War-I squandering of capital on its ill-conceived
>>electrification project hastening its eventual demise.
>
> Oh that's just silly. The SP had "ill-conceived elecrification"
> projects, and built large new passenger terminals long after the
> decline in passenger traffic was well under way. I agree the PRR
> was arrogant, but so were most other railroads -- pride and tunnel
> vision were widespread traits of railroad management.
>
> The PRR, NYC, B&O, NH, B&M, Erie, Lackawanna, LV -- ALL of them
> declined precipitously following WWII. And all of the western roads
> thrived in the 20 years after WWII. Gee, could it have something to
> do with the population explosion in the west, and the shifting of
> industry to wide open spaces where longer hauls were the norm? If it
> hadn't been for Powder River coal and trade with Asia, we'd have
> had a western version of the pre-Conrail meltdown by now...
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 8:07 AM
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Going Bananas ...

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Ripe bananas were a good deal for tug boat crews moving car floats of reefers loaded with bananas from Standard Fruit, pier 3 East River to W. 72nd St. and Weehawken. If they were yellow they wouldn't last as far as a supermarket shelf. When I rode a tug while I was working for NYC developing a schedule to expedite banana movement, I went home with all the yellow bananas I could carry.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
Re: Going Bananas ...

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Now that I'm back on the list after a trip out of town (to Hawaii, in
fact), I can speak for myself on this subject. I entirely agree with
Tony, and I will add that I have always found the pretentiousness of
the PRR's mechanical department during the steam era to be both
unwarranted and annoying (as did the mechanical officials of many
other RRs). With regard to freight cars, [snip... Many paragraphs of
Richard smooshing an overripe bannana into the face of the Pennsy, it's
executives, mechanical engineers, Phoaming Pennsy Phreaks, signature and
Yahoogroups advertisements, all trimmed for brevity).

See? Banannas do it every time! <VBG>

Dave Nelson
Re: cover of PRM vol. 2

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "DR Stinson" <dano@...> wrote:
PRM ?

Prototype Railroad Modeling from Speedwitch (Ted Culotta)
132261 - 132280 of 193414