Date   

Re: mystery reefer car model

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 25, 2007, at 5:50 PM, birdbiz2003 wrote:

I bought a detailed HO scale reefer car model recently at an antique
store. It is painted yellow and is a model of a wooden sided car. it
is lettered'' Butter Superior Brand Condensed Buttermilk Farmers Union
Creameries Superior and Aurora Nebraska'' also lettered North American
Despatch North American Car Corporation'' numbered NADX 4012.It has a
multiboard per strip 3 strip roofwalk and 2 very detailed very old
style hatches at each end.

What pre 1940 decade is this car from and do I need to modify it in
any
way to make it accurate.
North American was one of the most aggressive car lessors in the late
1920s and early 1930s who leased small lots of cars to small shippers
(sometimes only one or two cars) and applied billboard advertising to
them. The NADX 4000 series cars were 40' steel underframe reefers
built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. in January, 1928. If you've been
following the discussion on the list about billboard reefers, you
already know that such billboard advertising was outlawed by the ICC in
1934 and entirely phased out by 1938. How accurate the model may be is
anyone's guess, but I can provide you with photos of other NADX 4000
series cars if you're able to receive large JPEG files.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: SLRX Car Lading / also Varney.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 25, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

Thanks Rick for all the detail about SLRX.. Your comment about Varney
was interesting. They were nice kits, but I've never had a feeling of
the extent to which lettering on them was for cars that actually
existed.

To the best of my knowledge, the lettering on the early Varney kits was
all based on actual photos. The problem was/is that the models
themselves were generic rather than being accurate representations of
the intended prototypes.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Billboard Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Guy Wilber's list of exception-classes for advertising (mechanical designations T and L) is interesting because it does NOT include the cars we've been discussing: the R classes. I think we need to know more about this . . . <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Billboard Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Guy Wilber wrote

"Advertisements of any shipper, consignee or product, prohibited on all cars
except special cars of Mechanical Designation "L" and tank cars of Mechanical
Designation "T". In Interchange.

Note. -- The name of the "home point" of the car owner or lessee, a trade
mark or symbol, or the name of the owner or lessee, or any part thereof, will
not be considered advertising."

Thanks Guy, although excepting "trade marks" would seemingly cover a lot of
what is usually considering to be advertising. Like Tony's example of the
Chateau Martin cars (which were not T or L) bearing 40 foot slogans, e.g.

"For Good-ness Sake ... drink Chateau Martin Wines"

If that's just a declaration of ownership or a simple trade mark, then I
guess I don't understand the meaning of the word "advertising". I wonder if
you have any evidence of further relaxation of the 'ban' in the 1950's or
afterwards?

Tim O'Connor


mystery reefer car model

birdbiz2003 <birdbiz2003@...>
 

I bought a detailed HO scale reefer car model recently at an antique
store. It is painted yellow and is a model of a wooden sided car. it
is lettered'' Butter Superior Brand Condensed Buttermilk Farmers Union
Creameries Superior and Aurora Nebraska'' also lettered North American
Despatch North American Car Corporation'' numbered NADX 4012.It has a
multiboard per strip 3 strip roofwalk and 2 very detailed very old
style hatches at each end.

What pre 1940 decade is this car from and do I need to modify it in any
way to make it accurate.


Sincerely,

Tyler Turpin


Re: HO-Trucks on PSC Frameless Tankcar Kit?

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Jon wrote:
A quick search of Walthers and others show these out of stock and
availability unknown. So I'm guessing they are out of business
or at least have not produced any product for some time. The Walthers
listing shows
"all" their products out of stock!

The line appears to now be owned by Bethlehem Car Works:

http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/On-Trak/ho_scale.html

I don't know if they have them in stock but they do list them on their
website. They also have what appears to be some of the old Red Ball Line of
trucks under Kit Bits.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Pennsy, Arrogance . . .

prr6380
 

I don't believe that "Standard Railroad of the World" was really
refering to anything to do with equipment standards. Instead, it
was a marketing phrase intended to say that the PRR was setting
the "Standard" as to how to run a railroad. They were proud of it
successes.

Marketing people years later came up with "America's Team" to call
the Dallas Cowboys. As a Steeler fan I though it to be arroganat,
but I got over it. Some railfans seem to not be able to. The PRR
and the Cowboys eventually fell on hard times.

Walt Stafa


-- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:


----- Original Message -----
From: SUVCWORR@...

thompson@... writes:

Tell us again, Greg, which railroad it was which styled itself
the "Standard Railroad of the World."

While the PRR did call itself the "Standard Railroad of the World"
this is
an implied misconception of the origin of the moniker.
The "Standard" did
refer to a standard for other RR's to follow but referenced the
standardization
of various parts used mainly in locomotives, and infrastructure
and to a
lessor extent freight cars.
----- Original Message -----

Again, my impression from what I've read - not researched - was
that this
moniker had more to do with foreign governments believing that
because the
PRR was the biggest, it must also be the best and seeking out
technical and
management help from the PRR to develop and improve their own
systems.
Thus, elsewhere in the world, the PRR was held up as the standard
that a
modern railroad should seek to follow, in other words, "The
Standard
Railroad of the World".

KL


Re: Heinz Vinegar Cars.

Greg Martin
 

Richard writes:

As of 1950, Heinz rostered 24 vinegar tank cars, not a large fleet but one
that traveled widely (there are photos of them in west coast locations like
Los Angeles and Oakland), since carload lots of vinegar were delivered to
large food processors in many parts of the country. Cars of similar design were
also operated by other food companies, e.g. Standard Brands.

Allen Cain has summarized the available models. The AHM plastic model was
lame – a clumsy stand-in at best.

Richard Hendrickson


I have a Stan Townsend photo of a vinegar car in Salem, OR (no the SP side
of town) dated July 1971. Old and weary but a nice example of this car class
albeit beyond the scope of this list.


Greg Martin



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Re: question about truss rods and brake wheel staffs

hoghead32 <buckfiveoh@...>
 

Malcolm, back in my braking days I caught a boxcar to ride the
handbrake...it was a jade green NYC box with a high stemwinder brake.
This was about 1971. M.J. Buckelew


--- In STMFC@..., "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote:

--- Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

My question is when is the latest such a car might have been
used
in interchange service ? Sub-questions - when were truss rods
barred
from interchange service, and when were the high brake wheels last
used ?
======================================


Malcolm,

There is a very useful file noted as AAR_InterchangeDates in hte
STMFC file area at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/

There are three version of this file: HTML, Excel and WordPerfect.
Lots of good data to help you with parameters about truss rods and
arch bar truck use.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Pennsy, Arrogance . . .

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: SUVCWORR@...

thompson@... writes:

Tell us again, Greg, which railroad it was which styled itself
the "Standard Railroad of the World."

While the PRR did call itself the "Standard Railroad of the World" this is
an implied misconception of the origin of the moniker. The "Standard" did
refer to a standard for other RR's to follow but referenced the standardization
of various parts used mainly in locomotives, and infrastructure and to a
lessor extent freight cars.
----- Original Message -----

Again, my impression from what I've read - not researched - was that this moniker had more to do with foreign governments believing that because the PRR was the biggest, it must also be the best and seeking out technical and management help from the PRR to develop and improve their own systems. Thus, elsewhere in the world, the PRR was held up as the standard that a modern railroad should seek to follow, in other words, "The Standard Railroad of the World".

KL


Re: Pennsy, Arrogance . . .

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 25, 2007, at 2:26 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Rich Orr wrote:
> While the PRR did call itself the "Standard Railroad of the World"
> this is
> an implied misconception of the origin of the moniker. The
> "Standard" did
> refer to a standard for other RR's to follow but referenced the
> standardization
> of various parts used mainly in locomotives, and infrastructure and
> to a
> lessor extent freight cars . . . This is not to say that other roads
> did not standardize to certain levels.

During the Harriman era, Railway Age editorialized that the
Harriman roads had carried standardarization further than, as they put
it with tongue in cheek, "certain well publicized eastern roads." I
think that sounds like more than ". . . certain levels."
I will add that, when John Purcell became the Santa Fe's chief
mechanical officer in 1912, he immediately began a systematic
standardization and parts inventory program which became known in the
company as the "Santa Fe Method." The most obvious examples were the
many standardized parts and appliances used on the 3400 class 4-6-2s,
3160 class 2-8-2s, 3700 class 4-8-2s, and 3800 class 2-10-2s, but the
system extended to many other mechanical department functions,
including freight car trucks and other components. It was so widely
regarded in industry circles that mechanical officers of other
railroads (including some European railroads) visited the Santa Fe to
see the "Santa Fe Method" at first hand. So the Pennsy's vaunted
standardization certainly wasn't either novel or unique, though (as
with other aspects of railroad operations) they did it on a larger
scale than anyone else.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: W&LE 70 ton offset side hoppers

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks to Al and Ed for the information. There is also an image of the NKP
version in that Feb 95 Mainline Modeler.

And thanks to the off-line responses on these hoppers. It is all very much
appreciated.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Billboard Reefers

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Tony - You're right - a slip of the keystroke. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Billboard Reefers


Al Westerfield wrote:
> The worst problem in my opinion was that the per diem that the
> railroads had pay to haul long distance shipments in the leased cars
> was so great that the lessees' lease cost was more than covered by the
> per diem. In essence they were leasing the cars for free. Only a
> fool wouldn't take advantage of such a situation. As a result there
> were twice as many reefers as needed in 1930 and the ones sitting idle
> belonged to the railroads. This is also covered in the 1934 ICC
> decision.

Correct, Al, except they were NOT per diem payments, they were
mileage payments. Some lease contracts provided for subtracting the
mileage payments on a car (for that month) from the lease
charge--permitting a literal profit just by moving cars more
extensively. It appears from the ICC testimony that only a few shippers
were aggressively taking advantage of this, but by removing the
legality of such contracts, the ICC intended to avoid the rest of the
shippers (in Al's words) deciding not to be fools.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Iowa Cornfeild RPM Meet data

Dave Powell <daveydiesel@...>
 

There is going to be an RPM type meet on August 18th, 2007 in the
Waterloo/Cedar Falls, Iowa area. It will be a one day affair. We are
still in the early planning stages so stay tuned for updates. If you
can offer any help or assistance feel free to contact me at (515)
395-1015 or daveydiesel@.... Thanks, Dave Powell


Re: Pennsy, Arrogance . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Orr wrote:
While the PRR did call itself the "Standard Railroad of the World" this is
an implied misconception of the origin of the moniker. The "Standard" did
refer to a standard for other RR's to follow but referenced the standardization
of various parts used mainly in locomotives, and infrastructure and to a
lessor extent freight cars . . . This is not to say that other roads
did not standardize to certain levels.
During the Harriman era, Railway Age editorialized that the Harriman roads had carried standardarization further than, as they put it with tongue in cheek, "certain well publicized eastern roads." I think that sounds like more than ". . . certain levels."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Billboard Reefers

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 3/25/2007 10:36:33 AM Central Daylight Time,
timboconnor@... writes:

So there you have it. I suppose one should preface one's question with
"What is the answer today?" since it seems likely to change tomorrow.
Tim,

The AAR eventually moved their language within Rule 3 to Section (a)
Paragraph (7). I will have to dig a little deeper to find that exact date, but as
of 1946 it read as follows. I think you will find the exceptions (within)
interesting in reference to your mention of Boraxo covered hoppers, etc., in
your post from Saturday.

"Advertisements of any shipper, consignee or product, prohibited on all cars
except special cars of Mechanical Designation "L" and tank cars of
Mechanical Designation "T". In Interchange.

Note. -- The name of the "home point" of the car owner or lessee, a trade
mark or symbol, or the name of the owner or lessee, or any part thereof, will
not be considered advertising."

Kind Regards,

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI





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Re: HO-Trucks on PSC Frameless Tankcar Kit?

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

so the On-Trak trucks are a better representation (if they're still available).<
A quick search of Walthers and others show these out of stock and availability unknown. So I'm guessing they are out of business or at least have not produced any product for some time. The Walthers listing shows "all" their products out of stock!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: HO-Trucks on PSC Frameless Tankcar Kit?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 24, 2007, at 7:55 PM, Dean Payne wrote:

I would like to model the tank car with arch bar trucks. Richard's
article recommends On-Track 5304 arch bars, but I just got a bunch of
Tahoe arch bars, which were, of course, not available at the time of
the article. The width of the side frames is less than that of some
other trucks, and the detail is very fine, including the brake shoes
and brake beams. This is much more visible on these tank cars, plus,
my trucks came with narrow tread wheels, also visible. However, I
think they are 5' 6" wheelbase, which goes against the recommended 5'
wheelbase. I'm not sure whether the narrower width of the truck
would help mitigate the increased wheelbase or not. Are the On-Trak
trucks still the arch bar of choice?
I'm an enthusiastic admirer of the Tahoe Model Works arch bar trucks,
but the arch bars applied to the prototype cars when new were 5'
wheelbase with a different side frame configuration, so the On-Trak
trucks are a better representation (if they're still available).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Heinz Vinegar Cars.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 25, 2007, at 12:21 AM, bdg1210 wrote:

While watching a B&O video of movements in Ohio in the late 1950's I
saw a Heinz vinegar car on a train. The car was moving west from
Willard yard. It looked like something from the 1920's with its
multi-banded horizontal tanks on a flat car frame. Is there a model
for such a car? Was this an amonoly in the 1950's?

As of 1950, Heinz rostered 24 vinegar tank cars, not a large fleet but
one that traveled widely (there are photos of them in west coast
locations like Los Angeles and Oakland), since carload lots of vinegar
were delivered to large food processors in many parts of the country.
Cars of similar design were also operated by other food companies, e.g.
Standard Brands.

Allen Cain has summarized the available models. The AHM plastic model
was lame a clumsy stand-in at best.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Pennsy, Arrogance . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
I do believe that there might be some perception that we PRR guys are arrogant (modelers as well as the RR's management), but if you sit in our chairs we see it as being defensive, not arrogant.
Tell us again, Greg, which railroad it was which styled itself the "Standard Railroad of the World."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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