I've searched the archives and found enough info to rule out the ACY
and Muncie Ball lettered Proto 2000 Mather cars. However, I've not
found anything that rules out the PH&D car as something that could be
easily backdated with K brakes and new data. Is the lettering wrong
too? What did I miss? Thank you. -Jim Pasquill

gary laakso wrote:

I have the HO Oriental Models import of this car and 2 questions: 1) were the end doors lined in wood and 2) what decals should be used?

Gary, as I read the Cyc drawing (reproduced in my Volume 3) there was no end lining at either end, but I don't have an interior photo to be sure. I used the Champ road-name set and did all the dimensional data from various sets, sometimes character by character as needed.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Jim Mischke asked:
"I have some questions about modeling B&O M-24 boxcar subclasses.

How is the Tichy USRA single sheath boxcar kit as a B&O class M-24?"

Depends on your era. Out of the box, the Tichy model would be good
for cars as built for B&O from 1919 to the mid-1930s, when these
cars were rebuilt with new roofs.

"I vaguely remember somebody mentioning the model has 17 roof
panels, the protoype 14. Or vice versa."

Both the prototype as built and the model have 14 panels.

"Was the difference an aftermarket roof application?"

During the 1930s, several roads including B&O, PRR, C&O, WM, N&W,
and D&H rebuilt their USRA SS boxcars with aftermarket roofs.
According to Al Westerfield, the B&O used roofs from several
different vendors, including Hutchins, which is modeled by his kit
#3358.
http://www.westerfield.biz/3358_64163.htm


Ben Hom

I have some questions about modeling B&O M-24 boxcar subclasses.

How is the Tichy USRA single sheath boxcar kit as a B&O class M-24?
I vaguely remmeber somebody mentioning the model has 17 roof panels,
the protoype 14. Or vice versa. Was the difference an aftermarket
roof application?

Tichy also makes a cement car version based on a D&H prototype. How
is the hopper arrangement underneath for the similar B&O M-24a cement
car? The hatches topside seem different.

All of my M-24 (plain) boxcar photos date from company service days
(XM-3861 and like numbers) and not in revenue service. The protoype
cars were retired en masse during about 1951-52. Can anyone point me
to some in-service photos in their 187000 numbers?? Any lettering
scheme.

Any insights would be appreciated.

The only photos I have are of Erie and NP cars, and the doors are
lined. Small SP heralds can be found from Champ & Microscale. There
are no specific sets for this car in HO.

This gentleman is 100% correct. No wonder these plastic models
are being done with all the wrong measurement in them.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

Larry, you were absolutely right in your earlier post on this topic,
pointing out that A.T. Kott was talking about brass models and my
comments wouldn't apply in that case. I had fixated on his
SolidWorks remark and completely missed that point. But the time to
correct dimensions on plastic models, now that they're the subject
of discussion, is _before_ the tool is cut. Getting it right is the
shared responsibility of the designer and the client and has to be
part of the design process.

Charlie Vlk said it much better than I:

If it were MY money on the line I would insist on being able to
view the full 3D file on my own computer to verify all details and
dimensions of all components prior to authorizing tooling.

That's what I was trying to get to. A SolidWorks _drawing_, to me is
a static JPEG. Nice to look at, but not useful for design
verification. You (designer and client) need the fully manipulatable
3D file in order to validate the design. That's not what a lot of us
are used to but, in the case of plastic models, it's a heck of a lot
cheaper and faster than recutting a bad tool. Just ask InterMountain
(PFE R-40-10), Branchline (40' boxcar) and Red Caboose (PFE R-30-
something).

Thanks for keeping us honest and on our toes, Larry. Sometime I
bristle at your remarks, but I know they are based on long
experience and a desire to keep the rest of us grounded in reality.

Tom Madden

I have the HO Oriental Models import of this car and 2 questions: 1) were the end doors lined in wood and 2) what decals should be used?


gary laakso
south of mike brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net

This gentleman is 100% correct. No wonder these plastic models are being done with all the wrong measurement in them.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

I wrote

The two SP prototype classes of 12-panel box cars DID have the thin
top stiffener. I hope IM did not remove that stiffener in order to
model the SP cars <g>.

Tim O'Connor replied:

Tony, this one doesn't.

http://www.speedwitch.com/Images/models/sp21622.jpg

Perhaps we are descending into the Swamp of Definitions.....

Hey, I am just relieved to find out I am not the only one confused by
this conversation! I'm in good company this time...;-)

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
(*sitting here wondering there the GN-built SP&S 12-panels fit in,
having heard at least two conflicting accounts on their ends from
other sources...but perhaps now is not quite time to ask*)

I am looking for an Overland Models WABASH sheathed Automobile boxcar
that they did. If you have one you can part with or know of a store
that does, please let me know off-list. Thanks.

Jason Sanford

Nope, cuff-lers.

But do the pants come with patch panels?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...> wrote:

Just refine your search with a ³-cute²! 8^)
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni



From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:33:21 -0000
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: X29 Pants (!) on eBay





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"pullmanboss" <tgmadden@> wrote:

I've been watching a Red Caboose L&NE X29 kit on eBay. The "ending
soon" email notice just arrived and, as always, it includes a

listing

of "Similar Items on eBay". There are five various RC X29's on the
list, plus a red caboose from Atlas and another from Marx. Plus
one "ST. JOHNS BAY KHAKI PANTS SIZE 22W (40X29)". I did a

quick "what

the..." before I saw that "X29" nested in the description.

So, if any of you SPFs want some freight car pants, eBay's got a

pair

for you! Or go after the L&NE kit - I'm waiting for Ted's version.

Tom Madden

Tom,

You should try searching for models and memorabilia for the Soo

Line.

You'll never believe the number of different things people think are
"soo cute" :-(

Dennis

Paul, and everyone,

It may be (probably is) a case of God takes care of fools but when I
started building resin kits about a dozen years ago I never even
thought about washing them before assembly. While I would like to
change some of the lettering on those first few, courtesy of what I've
learned here, none of the parts have even started to look or feel a
little loose. The one thing I did different to anything else I've
seen here was mix a little five minute epoxy to anchor the running
boards. My thumb-fingered lack of coordination coupled with inherited
essential tremor makes it impossible for me to get those things to
hold still while I apply that tiniest bit of ACC.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:

Bruce,

I totally agree with you that there is no need to spend money on

"resin prep" voodoo mixtures. I personally like something a little
stronger than dish detergent for the initial pre-assemble "scrub", but
it will certainly work. If using dish detergent, I caution those
following this tread that it needs to be one of the ones with no added
oils like original Dawn. Dawn is what I use as the final wash prior to
painting.

Bruce, I did not mean to be critical of yours and Jim's approach,

just I think it is best to teach folks how to drive with both hands on
the steering wheel--they will find what is comfortable to them soon
enough!

Paul Lyons
Laguna NIguel, CA



-----Original Message-----
From: smithbf@...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Resin prepping


On Sat, April 14, 2007 10:00 pm, cobrapsl@... wrote:

Jim, Bruce,

I understand sanding the "flat pieces" first and dressing the

edges to be

glued with a file. All of us experienced builders do those

assembly steps,

but that is only a small part of putting a resin kit together. If

you are

not cleaning the mould release agent off, what are you doing to

assure a

good bond of the surfaced applied parts, i.e. ladders, handbrake

housings.

brake step platform supports, etc?

Paul, et al.,

Maybe ACC works differently here? (I say that only slightly in jest,

given

that humidity is a critical component for ACC and Paul lives in

California

and I in Alabama, where I have no doubt that the relative humidities
differ more than slighly). I really have no problem with ladders etc.
When things start to fail to stick, I find that it is time for a

bottle of

fresh ACC.

I guess I would agree that washing parts beforehand, especially for

a new

kit builder, certainly isn't going to hurt anything (if you're careful
<G>) and may help. However, I would also say that there is no reason to
go out and spend money on "resin prep" voodoo when simple dish detergent
will work just fine ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al (currently very wet, but NOT snowy!)



________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's

free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the response, Andy.

Perhaps this weekend I'll give this a shot and put together some pics for
the internet. That is, if the "honey do" list isn't too long...

Best,
Lawrence Rast

The triple offset side T&NO hopper cars I saw were loaded with
limestone/dolomite aggregate at Beckmann, Texas on the old SA&AP branch
to Kerrville. The quarry was called McDonough Brothers (sp?) during
the steam era. The aggregate was NOT used for cement, it was
construction aggregate for the Houston area - for roads and building
foundations. Some may also have been used for ballast on the railroad
during the 1940's. Loads went over the GH&SA from San Antonio to
Houston (I do not know where in Houston it was unloaded).

Thanks for the great info! Just what I needed, and it fits with the approximate size of the rock being loaded into cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tony -

The triple offset side T&NO hopper cars I saw were loaded with
limestone/dolomite aggregate at Beckmann, Texas on the old SA&AP branch
to Kerrville. The quarry was called McDonough Brothers (sp?) during
the steam era. The aggregate was NOT used for cement, it was
construction aggregate for the Houston area - for roads and building
foundations. Some may also have been used for ballast on the railroad
during the 1940's. Loads went over the GH&SA from San Antonio to
Houston (I do not know where in Houston it was unloaded). Sand from
Gemmer & Tanner in the Columbus, Texas area and oyster shell from
Galveston Bay were previously/concurrently used as aggregate, but the
limestone was apparently superior. The traffic continues to this day
from the same quarry.

A.T. Kott

[ Take Four ]

Tony Thompson wrote

The contrast, if I understood the discussion correctly, had to do with
whether there was ANY small rib above the highest major corrugation.

Not my understanding. The small stiffener was well above the major
and minor corrugations, and is clearly present on most GN cars and
the SP B-50-27/28 classes, and absent from the B-50-25/26 and some
GN cars... as we have discussed up to this point.

But as Ed pointed out clearly, no one (including Sunshine) makes the
end with the small stiffener correctly, because the topmost major "rib"
(corrugation) has a flattened bottom edge.

Intermountain's end without the stiffener (which I believe is the second
or later version in the IRC timeline) is the only correct end for SP 12 panel
cars, some GN 12 panel cars, and is incorrect for SP 10 panel cars.

Tim

My bad -- the Overnight cars weren't 12-panels -- I think we used a
different end on them so it would have the top riblet -- that also
gave it the holes for the horizontal bar grab.

All these things have blended together -- the "original" paint scheme
on the GN 12-panels included the horizaontal bar -- which is correct
for the car in later years, but not in the original dark BCR paint.

Marty

I wrote

The two SP prototype classes of 12-panel box cars DID have the thin top stiffener. I hope IM did not remove that stiffener in order to model the SP cars <g>.

Tim O'Connor replied:

Tony, this one doesn't.

http://www.speedwitch.com/Images/models/sp21622.jpg

Perhaps we are descending into the Swamp of Definitions. I would agree that the some of the P-S cars built for SP have more of a thin, straight rib, instead of a tapered thin rib like those between the major corrugations. (Let's not call it a "riblet" lest I think excessively of BBQ.) See the relevant pages in my SP Freight Cars Vol. 4 for additional photos. The contrast, if I understood the discussion correctly, had to do with whether there was ANY small rib above the highest major corrugation.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Just refine your search with a ³-cute²! 8^)
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni



From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:33:21 -0000
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: X29 Pants (!) on eBay





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

I've been watching a Red Caboose L&NE X29 kit on eBay. The "ending
soon" email notice just arrived and, as always, it includes a listing
of "Similar Items on eBay". There are five various RC X29's on the
list, plus a red caboose from Atlas and another from Marx. Plus
one "ST. JOHNS BAY KHAKI PANTS SIZE 22W (40X29)". I did a quick "what
the..." before I saw that "X29" nested in the description.

So, if any of you SPFs want some freight car pants, eBay's got a pair
for you! Or go after the L&NE kit - I'm waiting for Ted's version.

Tom Madden

Tom,

You should try searching for models and memorabilia for the Soo Line.
You'll never believe the number of different things people think are
"soo cute" :-(

Dennis