Date   

Re: Sheetrock by Rail

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Worthy wrote:
"...I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s or even
the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the
plastered walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and
company buildings were using beautiful "real" wood paneling. So,
I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread product??
I have a feeling that it came around in the 60s."

According to this essay on the history of drywall,

http://db.inman.com/inman/content/subscribers/inman/column.cfm?
StoryId=031201AG&columnistid=Gellner

US Gypsum first devloped drywall in 1916. It was used extensively in
buildings at the 1934 Chicago World's Fair, but was not used
extensively until World War II for government and military buildings,
where it facilitated quick construction by less skilled carpenters.
This carried over to the first postwar suburbs in places like
Levittown on Long Island. I wasn't able to dig up any corroborating
sources with a quick search of the internet (the articles on Levittown
concentrate more on other subjects than the nuts and bolts of the
houses), but the story certainly makes sense. In marketing his
Savannah and Atlanta (ex-FEC) rebuilt DS ventilated boxcars Steve
Funaro has stated that the Savannah and Atlanta served a drywall
plant; can anyone confirm this or the facts in the essay?


Ben Hom


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Don;



While drywall as we currently know it was not around that early, there was a
form of pre-cast "dry" (as opposed to applied in place wet plaster) wall
board/sheetrock manufactured before 1950, that is also sometimes referred to
as "button board" due to the mounting holes that were cast in its surface
that were later covered by "buttons" that were sanded down even with the
surface. This was a cast sheet with no permanent outer paper layer, and
since it used a heavy lime base, the sheets were much heavier than modern
wallboard. Their use in building required either numerous people to lift and
maneuver into place for mounting, or a special mechanical lift. I once worked
at a place that had several of these, which by my time had fallen into
disuse. One can understand how this early form of dry wall covering was
(happily) superceded by lighter drywall.



There was at least one "Dry Wall" manufacturer on my section of the PRR by
1945, which surprised me. They might have tarped loads they may have placed
on flats, if indeed they wished to risk moisture contamination, but as others
have mentioned, they did use box cars, as the early palletized loads were
considerably smaller (and much heavier), than the later huge palletized
drywall loads we are used to seeing. Interestingly, their name was changed
from "Dry Wall" to "Drywall", at some point.



The PRR began creating specially-equipped end bulkhead flats for this
service, after 1955, for the developing use of large drywall sheets being
supplied in plastic protective coverings, and loaded with fork lifts. These
flats were also used for pre-packaged (and wrapped) dimensional lumber and
plywood. These flats were taken out of the general service fleet and had
bulkheads added, without renumbering, and placed into a new sub-class to
differentiate them.



I hope this helps, at least for one situation.



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don
Worthy
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:35 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sheetrock by Rail



Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s or even
the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the plastered walls
and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and company buildings were
using beautiful "real" wood paneling.
So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread product?? I
have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the Kaolin companies
made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk) is 90% of sheetrock.
Don Worthy

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> > wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "espeeac12"
<milesinniles@...> wrote:

How was Sheetrock (Drywall) Originally shipped by rail? When? I'm going
to have a couple of sheetrock loads for my late 1940's-1959 era layout.
Does anyone show pictures of this early operation? How was it unloaded?
In boxcars, at least prior to WWII, when my dad was working as a
driver and yardman for various lumber yards in Chicago. The transition
to bulkhead flats came after the war, when plastic wrapping technology
advanced to the point where this moisture sensitive load could be
protected. When I see Dad later this week, I'll ask him when he saw
the first bulkhead flats.

Dennis

---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

From the Wikipedia entry for "Drywall":

"The name drywall derives from drywall's replacement of the
lath-and-plaster wall-building method, in which plaster was spread over
small wooden formers while still wet. In 1916, the United States Gypsum
Company invented a 4' x 8' sheet of gypsum pressed between sheets of
extremely strong paper, which they called "Sheetrock." Despite being
used extensively at the Chicago World's Fair in 1933-34, it was
generally seen as an inferior alternative to plaster and did not catch
on quickly. It gained popularity during World War II, when the war
effort made labor expensive. It was reintroduced in 1952, and the
suburban migration of the 1950s was fueled in part by the cheaper
construction methods allowed by drywall."

So just how prominent was it in the early 50's? - Hard to say, but it
had been around since 1916!
regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Don Worthy
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:35 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s or
even the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the
plastered walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and
company buildings were using beautiful "real" wood paneling.
So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread
product?? I have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the
Kaolin companies made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk) is
90% of sheetrock.
Don Worthy


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Eric
 

http://db.inman.com/inman/content/subscribers/inman/
column.cfm?StoryId=031201AG&columnistid=Gellner

Eric Petersson


Don Worthy wrote:

"Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s
or even the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the
plastered walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and
company buildings were using beautiful "real" wood paneling.

"So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread
product?? I have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the
Kaolin companies made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk)
is 90% of sheetrock."


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Don Worthy
 

Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s or even the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the plastered walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and company buildings were using beautiful "real" wood paneling.
So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread product?? I have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the Kaolin companies made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk) is 90% of sheetrock.
Don Worthy

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "espeeac12" <milesinniles@...> wrote:

How was Sheetrock (Drywall) Originally shipped by rail? When? I'm going
to have a couple of sheetrock loads for my late 1940's-1959 era layout.
Does anyone show pictures of this early operation? How was it unloaded?
In boxcars, at least prior to WWII, when my dad was working as a
driver and yardman for various lumber yards in Chicago. The transition
to bulkhead flats came after the war, when plastic wrapping technology
advanced to the point where this moisture sensitive load could be
protected. When I see Dad later this week, I'll ask him when he saw
the first bulkhead flats.

Dennis






---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Charles Hladik
 

Don,
I know that it was in use in Ohio in the early 50's.
Chuck Hladik



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "espeeac12" <milesinniles@...> wrote:

How was Sheetrock (Drywall) Originally shipped by rail? When? I'm going
to have a couple of sheetrock loads for my late 1940's-1959 era layout.
Does anyone show pictures of this early operation? How was it unloaded?
In boxcars, at least prior to WWII, when my dad was working as a
driver and yardman for various lumber yards in Chicago. The transition
to bulkhead flats came after the war, when plastic wrapping technology
advanced to the point where this moisture sensitive load could be
protected. When I see Dad later this week, I'll ask him when he saw
the first bulkhead flats.

Dennis


Sheetrock by Rail

espeeac12 <milesinniles@...>
 

How was Sheetrock (Drywall) Originally shipped by rail? When? I'm going
to have a couple of sheetrock loads for my late 1940's-1959 era layout.
Does anyone show pictures of this early operation? How was it unloaded?


Re: Backdating Mather Proto PH&D

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 17, 2007, at 4:52 PM, red_gate_rover wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> wrote:

> So, what road names for the Proto2K Mather boxcar are correct???

Jim, I don't know about them all. The Muncie and ACY cars may be
correct for some periods. I want to backdate some one 1929 and the ACY
and Muncie versions are not right for '29.
As with other Proto 2000 models, all of the P/L schemes on the Mather
box cars are correct for some period in history (though not necessarily
the same period). There is, however, a problem with the models
themselves because the Mather box cars leased to AC&Y and MWR were
slightly taller than those leased to most other RRs and therefore the
models are not entirely accurate for those two RRs.

More to the point, the years during which various RRs leased cars from
Mather varied, and most of Mather's leased box cars weren't built (or
rebuilt from stock cars) until ca. 1931-'32. The PH&D did, however,
lease 400 40'4" IL box cars from Mather beginning in the late 1920s.
That's the good news. The bad news is that I'm not aware of any photos
showing the PH&D's Mather box cars ca. 1929, so there's no way to know
whether the lettering was the same as the '40s/'50s vintage lettering
applied to the models.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Backdating Mather Proto PH&D

red_gate_rover
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> wrote:


So, what road names for the Proto2K Mather boxcar are correct???

Jim, I don't know about them all. The Muncie and ACY cars may be
correct for some periods. I want to backdate some one 1929 and the ACY
and Muncie versions are not right for '29.
-Jim Pasquill


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "red_gate_rover" <red_gate_rover@>
wrote:

I've searched the archives and found enough info to rule out the ACY
and Muncie Ball lettered Proto 2000 Mather cars. However, I've not
found anything that rules out the PH&D car as something that could be
easily backdated with K brakes and new data. Is the lettering wrong
too? What did I miss? Thank you. -Jim Pasquill


Re: Backdating Mather Proto PH&D

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

So, what road names for the Proto2K Mather boxcar are correct???




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "red_gate_rover" <red_gate_rover@...>
wrote:

I've searched the archives and found enough info to rule out the ACY
and Muncie Ball lettered Proto 2000 Mather cars. However, I've not
found anything that rules out the PH&D car as something that could be
easily backdated with K brakes and new data. Is the lettering wrong
too? What did I miss? Thank you. -Jim Pasquill


Backdating Mather Proto PH&D

red_gate_rover
 

I've searched the archives and found enough info to rule out the ACY
and Muncie Ball lettered Proto 2000 Mather cars. However, I've not
found anything that rules out the PH&D car as something that could be
easily backdated with K brakes and new data. Is the lettering wrong
too? What did I miss? Thank you. -Jim Pasquill


Re: SP A-50-10 Fifty Foot, OB end door Boxcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

gary laakso wrote:
I have the HO Oriental Models import of this car and 2 questions: 1) were the end doors lined in wood and 2) what decals should be used?
Gary, as I read the Cyc drawing (reproduced in my Volume 3) there was no end lining at either end, but I don't have an interior photo to be sure. I used the Champ road-name set and did all the dimensional data from various sets, sometimes character by character as needed.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tichy USRA Boxcar and B&O M-24 subclasses

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Mischke asked:
"I have some questions about modeling B&O M-24 boxcar subclasses.

How is the Tichy USRA single sheath boxcar kit as a B&O class M-24?"

Depends on your era. Out of the box, the Tichy model would be good
for cars as built for B&O from 1919 to the mid-1930s, when these
cars were rebuilt with new roofs.

"I vaguely remember somebody mentioning the model has 17 roof
panels, the protoype 14. Or vice versa."

Both the prototype as built and the model have 14 panels.

"Was the difference an aftermarket roof application?"

During the 1930s, several roads including B&O, PRR, C&O, WM, N&W,
and D&H rebuilt their USRA SS boxcars with aftermarket roofs.
According to Al Westerfield, the B&O used roofs from several
different vendors, including Hutchins, which is modeled by his kit
#3358.
http://www.westerfield.biz/3358_64163.htm


Ben Hom


Tichy USRA Boxcar and B&O M-24 subclasses

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

I have some questions about modeling B&O M-24 boxcar subclasses.

How is the Tichy USRA single sheath boxcar kit as a B&O class M-24?
I vaguely remmeber somebody mentioning the model has 17 roof panels,
the protoype 14. Or vice versa. Was the difference an aftermarket
roof application?

Tichy also makes a cement car version based on a D&H prototype. How
is the hopper arrangement underneath for the similar B&O M-24a cement
car? The hatches topside seem different.

All of my M-24 (plain) boxcar photos date from company service days
(XM-3861 and like numbers) and not in revenue service. The protoype
cars were retired en masse during about 1951-52. Can anyone point me
to some in-service photos in their 187000 numbers?? Any lettering
scheme.

Any insights would be appreciated.


Re: SP A-50-10 Fifty Foot, OB end door Boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

The only photos I have are of Erie and NP cars, and the doors are
lined. Small SP heralds can be found from Champ & Microscale. There
are no specific sets for this car in HO.

I have the HO Oriental Models import of this car and 2 questions: 1) were&#92;
the end doors lined in wood and 2) what decals should be used?
gary laakso
south of mike brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net


Model design (Was: NYC Steel Boxcars)

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

This gentleman is 100% correct. No wonder these plastic models
are being done with all the wrong measurement in them.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Larry, you were absolutely right in your earlier post on this topic,
pointing out that A.T. Kott was talking about brass models and my
comments wouldn't apply in that case. I had fixated on his
SolidWorks remark and completely missed that point. But the time to
correct dimensions on plastic models, now that they're the subject
of discussion, is _before_ the tool is cut. Getting it right is the
shared responsibility of the designer and the client and has to be
part of the design process.

Charlie Vlk said it much better than I:
If it were MY money on the line I would insist on being able to
view the full 3D file on my own computer to verify all details and
dimensions of all components prior to authorizing tooling.
That's what I was trying to get to. A SolidWorks _drawing_, to me is
a static JPEG. Nice to look at, but not useful for design
verification. You (designer and client) need the fully manipulatable
3D file in order to validate the design. That's not what a lot of us
are used to but, in the case of plastic models, it's a heck of a lot
cheaper and faster than recutting a bad tool. Just ask InterMountain
(PFE R-40-10), Branchline (40' boxcar) and Red Caboose (PFE R-30-
something).

Thanks for keeping us honest and on our toes, Larry. Sometime I
bristle at your remarks, but I know they are based on long
experience and a desire to keep the rest of us grounded in reality.

Tom Madden


Re: SP A-50-10 Fifty Foot, OB end door Boxcar

gary laakso
 

I have the HO Oriental Models import of this car and 2 questions: 1) were the end doors lined in wood and 2) what decals should be used?


gary laakso
south of mike brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net


Re: NYC Steel Boxcars, New Models?

ljack70117@...
 

This gentleman is 100% correct. No wonder these plastic models are being done with all the wrong measurement in them.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Apr 16, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

Tom-
I don't think that 3D Cad images are a substitute for preproduction samples or pilot models.
They do allow the proofing of design concepts and go a long way in catching any proportion issues before committing to tooling.
I am afraid, however, that some builders think that looking at a general arrangement 2D projection of the 3D file and a few selected
3D jpegs is enough for an importer to make final approval for production.
If it were MY money on the line I would insist on being able to view the full 3D file on my own computer to verify all details and dimensions of all
components prior to authorizing tooling. Test shots or (in the case of Brass) are still necessary to check out final fit and finish issues
prior to production. Fully decorated shells, at least for each paint job, are also necessary as final paint and printing colors, alignment
issues, etc.. are very hard and expensive to get corrected after production has started.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources


No, providing a viewable SolidWorks (or other 3D CAD file) image in
lieu of an physical model is now a legitimate, advanced design
practice.

Tom Madden
.






Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: GN 12 panel take 3

leakinmywaders
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

I wrote
The two SP prototype classes of 12-panel box cars DID have the thin
top stiffener. I hope IM did not remove that stiffener in order to
model the SP cars <g>.
Tim O'Connor replied:
Tony, this one doesn't.

http://www.speedwitch.com/Images/models/sp21622.jpg
Perhaps we are descending into the Swamp of Definitions.....

Hey, I am just relieved to find out I am not the only one confused by
this conversation! I'm in good company this time...;-)

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
(*sitting here wondering there the GN-built SP&S 12-panels fit in,
having heard at least two conflicting accounts on their ends from
other sources...but perhaps now is not quite time to ask*)

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