Date   

Re: "Longitudinal" hopper

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tim,

Yes it does but the AT&SF seemed to be full of
these oddball ideas. If you take a three bay
GA-122, remove the hoppers and replace with
lengthwise doors and build up or borrow flat car
ends, that model on e-bay is what you are going
to end up with.

Somewhere I have photos of their attempt to reduce
the wind resistance of modern coal hoppers by
putting bonnets over the open end areas. The test
process even included a locomotive with a boom
sticking out about 30' forwards to put wind
measurement instruments.

The purpose built 1963 B-L-H cars are odd enough
in themselves. I don't know what their center of
gravity was but it must have been rather high.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 12:36
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper



Russ I think you are right that the prototype car was built for
copper concentrates. SP had some really weird looking cars
built around the same time period for that commodity. That
model of a hopper car on a flat car body just looks silly IMO!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

original_coaster <ladanas@...>
 

Just to round out the "geographical roll call," whole neighborhoods
of houses in San Francisco were being constructed with
sheetrock/drywall in the late 40s. I grew up in such a house as did
most of my friends. (Homes like these in that area were the
inspiration for term "ticky-tacky.")

-- Paul
--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

As per an article in the October 1927 B&M EMPLOYEES MAGAZINE, the
Atlantic Gypsum Products Company of Newington NH shipped a full
train
load of its wallboard and plasterboard in boxcars on September 7th,
1927. In 1954, the B&M converted ten 40' flats built in 1923 for
gypsum
service with bulkheads and renumbered them into the #5300-5309
series.
In 1957, the B&M purchased ten PS-5 bulkhead flats which were
numbered
in the #5320-5329 series. Shortly thereafter, the B&M converted
another
ten PS-5 flats into bulkhead flats which were renumbered into the
#5330-5339 series.

The October 1927 article follows:


A RECORD BREAKING SHIPMENT
NEW NEW ENGLAND INDUSTRY SENDS OUT SOLID TRAIN LOAD OF ITS
PRODUCTS

The first complete trainload of gypsum building materials made
and
sold in New England for use in New England left the new plant of
the
Atlantic Gypsum Products Company over the Boston & Maine Railroad
on
September 7th (1927). This industry which replaces shipbuilding
as
Portsmouth's principal industrial activity other than the Navy
Yard is
less than a year old.

At a time when building contracts show a pronounced recession in
the
country as a whole, the 26 car trainload of gypsum material
(wallboard
and plaster) bought by New England dealers stands as an
indication of
the building activity within New England. It was consigned to
dealers
in all parts of New England: - ranging from Boston to Bangor and
from
Vineyard haven to Dover.

As one of the several new industries to locate in New England in
recent years, the Atlantic Gypsum Products Co. went to Portsmouth
a
few months ago to establish a plant which would both serve New
England
as well providing some products for national distribution. With a
long
established plant in New York and a supply of gypsum rock in Nova
Scotia, the company analyzed market opportunities, transportation
facilities and business conditions on the entire Atlantic
Seaboard
before making its decision. With speed rivaling that of war-time
when
Portsmouth built ships, a 65 acre plant was reconditioned, and
equipment erected for converting thousands of tons of gypsum rock
into
wallboard and plaster. Today the plant is one of the largest and
best
equipped of its kind in the building materials industry.

Shipments have been made from time to time in the last six
months, but
the 26 car train which left Portsmouth Yards beat all records for
single consignments of building materials made in New England for
New
England consumption.

The occasion was marked by a "dry launching," Elizabeth Raynes,
the 18
year old daughter of HC Raines, VP of Atlantic Gypsum, broke a
bottle
of salt water from Portsmouth harbor over the pilot of the B&M
locomotive when it was ready to start.

October 1927 Boston & Maine Employees Magazine

Tim Gilbert


Re: Athearn C&NW 65 ft mill gon

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Maybe they chose to cater to (gasp!) the post-transition era?? After all many
modelers like those 1960's cars (incredible as it may seem!)

Tim 'pre post modernesque transition era modeler' O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Mike Brock" <brockm@...>
I note that Athearn is producing a C&NW version of the 65 ft mill gon. I
also note that the Athearn numbers:

Gondola, C&NW #95081 & 95156

do not match the numbers Richard reports in his article in Feb 2006 RMJ nor
do they match those in the '53 ORER [ which match Richard's ]. The Athearn
cars also have a '58 [ I think ] built date. Rather annoying for those
modeling the steam era. I suppose one could change the numbers. Does anyone
know if these cars are correct for the late steam era? Wonder why Athearn
chose such a date...shutting out the transition era modeler?

Mike Brock


Re: "Longitudinal" hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Russ I think you are right that the prototype car was built for
copper concentrates. SP had some really weird looking cars
built around the same time period for that commodity. That
model of a hopper car on a flat car body just looks silly IMO!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@...>
David,

While it is not a normal GA-122 it could be a conversion.
AT&SF liked to kit bash configurations. I have no
information on a GA-123 class. It appears to me that if
the body of a GA-122 was mounted on a flat car this is
what you would have.

The only longitudinal hoppers I can find at this moment
are AT&SF 77995-77999 which were built by Baldwin-Lima-
Hamilton in 1963. They are ore cars set rather high above
end frames with long lengthwise doors. Show as being used
at Hillside AZ. My first guess would be some kind of copper
ore concentrate. I'm sure the door configuration matched
what the customer had for an unloading area. That car series
was classed as GA-132.

These were not ballast cars. I do not think the doors had
any available adjustment, they were either open or closed.

Russ Strodtz


Canadian Railroads Question - Very OT

Shawn Beckert
 

Fellow listers,

Would someone who is familiar with Canadian passenger train
operations please contact me off-list (obviously).

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Naperville 2007

losgatos48@...
 

Does anyone know the dates for this year's show in Naperville?

Thanks,
Gene Deimling
Proto48 Modeler
http://www.proto48.org


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Tim O'Connor
 

I guess I should look in the flat cars book -- were any of these F-70-7
conversions?

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
In 1949, SP began converting flat cars with bulkheads for
drywall service. From the outset many were marked "when empty return to
plaster city," a drywall plant on the SP in the Imperial Valley.
I don't have specific construction memories, but I do recall
seeing such loads in the bulkhead cars during the early 1950s.
Before that time, of course, box cars could have been used.

Tony Thompson


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

As per an article in the October 1927 B&M EMPLOYEES MAGAZINE, the Atlantic Gypsum Products Company of Newington NH shipped a full train load of its wallboard and plasterboard in boxcars on September 7th, 1927. In 1954, the B&M converted ten 40' flats built in 1923 for gypsum service with bulkheads and renumbered them into the #5300-5309 series. In 1957, the B&M purchased ten PS-5 bulkhead flats which were numbered in the #5320-5329 series. Shortly thereafter, the B&M converted another ten PS-5 flats into bulkhead flats which were renumbered into the #5330-5339 series.

The October 1927 article follows:


A RECORD BREAKING SHIPMENT
NEW NEW ENGLAND INDUSTRY SENDS OUT SOLID TRAIN LOAD OF ITS PRODUCTS

The first complete trainload of gypsum building materials made and sold in New England for use in New England left the new plant of the Atlantic Gypsum Products Company over the Boston & Maine Railroad on September 7th (1927). This industry which replaces shipbuilding as Portsmouth's principal industrial activity other than the Navy Yard is less than a year old.

At a time when building contracts show a pronounced recession in the country as a whole, the 26 car trainload of gypsum material (wallboard and plaster) bought by New England dealers stands as an indication of the building activity within New England. It was consigned to dealers in all parts of New England: - ranging from Boston to Bangor and from Vineyard haven to Dover.

As one of the several new industries to locate in New England in recent years, the Atlantic Gypsum Products Co. went to Portsmouth a few months ago to establish a plant which would both serve New England as well providing some products for national distribution. With a long established plant in New York and a supply of gypsum rock in Nova Scotia, the company analyzed market opportunities, transportation facilities and business conditions on the entire Atlantic Seaboard before making its decision. With speed rivaling that of war-time when Portsmouth built ships, a 65 acre plant was reconditioned, and equipment erected for converting thousands of tons of gypsum rock into wallboard and plaster. Today the plant is one of the largest and best equipped of its kind in the building materials industry.

Shipments have been made from time to time in the last six months, but the 26 car train which left Portsmouth Yards beat all records for single consignments of building materials made in New England for New England consumption.

The occasion was marked by a "dry launching," Elizabeth Raynes, the 18 year old daughter of HC Raines, VP of Atlantic Gypsum, broke a bottle of salt water from Portsmouth harbor over the pilot of the B&M locomotive when it was ready to start.

October 1927 Boston & Maine Employees Magazine

Tim Gilbert


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Don Worthy
 

I'm not a chemist but, I think the gypsum holds the kaolin together. Kaolin is the "filler" in many of the products that use it.
And yes, my part of the country was and has been very poor until kaolin or "white gold" to us, became a main product for paints, paper, plastics and other such things.
Most of the old homes built before the 1949-50 time, were built using the old style. Their is a fair size gap where few to no "new" homes were built. Then when the two main kaolin companies made there big improvements and increased their plants sizes, then new homes and additions to the older ones could be seen. That is when I remember seeing dry wall and such in use.
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.

Frank Greene <frgreene290@...> wrote:
"Don Worthy" <don_worthy@...>
Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s or even
the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the plastered
walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and company buildings
were using beautiful "real" wood paneling.
I guess the south of Don's youth (Gordon, GA) was different from mine
(Doraville, GA). My parents bought a new house in 1956 that had sheetrock
walls.

So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread product?? I
have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the Kaolin companies
made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk) is 90% of sheetrock.
Kaolin 90% content of sheetrock? I thought gypsum was the main ingredient.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN






---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Don Worthy
 

Wow...man!! I've learned something today.....
I guess down here in the middle Georgia area, we've always been behind the rest of the world. My old home place still has the plaster and batten strips. Some of the house may have the plaster over that Rocklath stuff.
Thanks ya'll
Don Worthy

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Don Worthy <don_worthy@...> wrote:

Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s
or even the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the
plastered walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and
company buildings were using beautiful "real" wood paneling.
So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread
product?? I have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the
Kaolin companies made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk)
is 90% of sheetrock.
Don Worthy
From WIKIPEDIA, the home of the –B term paper:

"The name drywall derives from drywall's replacement of the
lath-and-plaster wall-building method, in which plaster was spread
over small wooden formers while still wet. In 1916, the United States
Gypsum Company invented a 4' x 8' sheet of gypsum pressed between
sheets of extremely strong paper, which they called "Sheetrock."[1]
Despite being used extensively at the Chicago World's Fair in 1933–34,
it was generally seen as an inferior alternative to plaster and did
not catch on quickly. It gained popularity during World War II, when
the war effort made labor expensive. It was reintroduced in 1952, and
the suburban migration of the 1950s was fueled in part by the cheaper
construction methods allowed by drywall."

That's not the whole story, however. The original product was called
"rocklath" and its purpose was to replace the wood lath strips used to
support plaster. Rocklath was 3/8" thick and came in 16" X 32" sheets,
normally bundled six or ten (I forget which) sheets together with wire
clips for ease (?) of handling. Both houses I've owned in the Chicago
area have been plaster on rocklath, as was my Dad's.

I also recall seeing, when doing remodeling with my Dad when I was a
kid, "plasterboard" that had a printed woodgrain paper surface that
had been put up years before. It seemed to be a common do-it-yourself
product from the WWII era. Its main problem was hiding the nails used
for attachment.

Neither product was shipped in sufficient volume to warrant special
rail cars; with labor as chep as it was before WWII, it was just
loaded by hand in boxcars.

Dennis (who was bending nails at a very early age) Storzek






---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Athearn C&NW 65 ft mill gon

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I note that Athearn is producing a C&NW version of the 65 ft mill gon. I also note that the Athearn numbers:

Gondola, C&NW #95081 & 95156

do not match the numbers Richard reports in his article in Feb 2006 RMJ nor do they match those in the '53 ORER [ which match Richard's ]. The Athearn cars also have a '58 [ I think ] built date. Rather annoying for those modeling the steam era. I suppose one could change the numbers. Does anyone know if these cars are correct for the late steam era? Wonder why Athearn chose such a date...shutting out the transition era modeler?

Mike Brock


Flat Cars for Wallboard Loading

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 18, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Even earlier were Santa Fe Ft-W flats (GSC) with bulkheads
delivered in 1952 -- 38 cars with 10'0" bulkheads. GM&O was
an early adopter too, 50+ cars by 1953.
The Santa Fe began applying end bulkheads to existing flat cars for
gypsum wallboard loading immediately following WW II and by the early
1950s had many cars assigned to that service, owing to the postwar
building boom in California and the southwest.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "Longitudinal" hopper

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

David Smith wrote:
I searched the STMFC archive and couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers . . . is it a ballast car only or would it have had other uses?
To mention just one railroad, SP bought nearly all longitudinal hoppers until the 1960s, and they were equipped with either "Hart Selective" or "Enterprise" ballast-distributing outlets. They could also, of course, be used for other mineral cargoes as needed.
The name comes from the rotation axis of the dump doors--it was longitudinal rather than across the car, as with "conventional" hoppers. You will find the term used in Cycs.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

In 1949, SP began converting flat cars with bulkheads for drywall service. From the outset many were marked "when empty return to plaster city," a drywall plant on the SP in the Imperial Valley.
I don't have specific construction memories, but I do recall seeing such loads in the bulkhead cars during the early 1950s.
Before that time, of course, box cars could have been used.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Sheetrock by Rail

Louie B. Hydrick
 

Greetings,

Sheetrock was in used in Augusta, Georgia, by 1947-1948. I am aware of
several neighborhoods that have houses built next door to each other, some with
plaster, some with sheetrock, and some with both, (my childhood home was of
the latter).

I have located two damaged railroad waybills for 1949 deliveries to Augusta
on the GARR for the product but the shipper and car info are missing.

I have been collecting copies of any waybill or waybill information routed
to, via, or thru Augusta for some time. Sometimes I have settled for a
partial document over nothing.



Louie B. Hydrick
Associate Broker
RE/MAX Masters, Inc.
4316 Washington Road
Evans GA 30809

Office (706) 868-6913
Fax (706) 868-0887
Toll Free (800) 325-8030
Mobile (706) 832-6263

Visit me on the web at www.csrahomesandland.com



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


Re: "Longitudinal" hopper

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

David,

While it is not a normal GA-122 it could be a conversion.
AT&SF liked to kit bash configurations. I have no
information on a GA-123 class. It appears to me that if
the body of a GA-122 was mounted on a flat car this is
what you would have.

The only longitudinal hoppers I can find at this moment
are AT&SF 77995-77999 which were built by Baldwin-Lima-
Hamilton in 1963. They are ore cars set rather high above
end frames with long lengthwise doors. Show as being used
at Hillside AZ. My first guess would be some kind of copper
ore concentrate. I'm sure the door configuration matched
what the customer had for an unloading area. That car series
was classed as GA-132.

These were not ballast cars. I do not think the doors had
any available adjustment, they were either open or closed.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: David Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 09:49
Subject: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper


This car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CON-COR-LONGITUDINAL-HOPPER-ATSF-N-Scale-TRAIN_W0QQitemZ160106214900QQihZ006QQcategoryZ19123QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

has come up for discussion on n-scale. I've never seen one
before,
which doesn't mean anything, but I'm curious. Is this even a
steam-era car? One poster thought it was a GA-122, which I
found on a
list of ATSF diagrams as built in 1961, but the GA-123 is not
identified as a longitudinal hopper. I searched the STMFC
archive and
couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers. If it's out
of
era, then say no more. If it is in era, is it a ballast car
only or
would it have had other uses?

Thanks,
Dave
--
David L. Smith
Allentown, PA
dlsio4@...


Re: "Longitudinal" hopper

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:49 AM, David Smith wrote:

This car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CON-COR-LONGITUDINAL-HOPPER-ATSF-N-Scale-
TRAIN_W0QQitemZ160106214900QQihZ006QQcategoryZ19123QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

has come up for discussion on n-scale. I've never seen one before,
which doesn't mean anything, but I'm curious. Is this even a
steam-era car? One poster thought it was a GA-122, which I found on a
list of ATSF diagrams as built in 1961, but the GA-123 is not
identified as a longitudinal hopper. I searched the STMFC archive and
couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers. If it's out of
era, then say no more. If it is in era, is it a ballast car only or
would it have had other uses?
It does model a Santa Fe Ga-123 class car, of which 60 were built in
the Topeka shops in 1963 for bulk mineral (not ballast) service. So it
is out of era for the STMFC list.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Frank Greene
 

"Don Worthy" <don_worthy@...>
Hey fellows, I didn't think that "sheetrock" was around in the 40s or even the early 50s. Here in the south, homes were still using the plastered walls and ceilings. Also, during the 50s many homes and company buildings were using beautiful "real" wood paneling.

I guess the south of Don's youth (Gordon, GA) was different from mine (Doraville, GA). My parents bought a new house in 1956 that had sheetrock walls.


So, I'm wondering "when" did "sheetrock" become a wide spread product?? I have a feeling that it came around in the 60s. I know the Kaolin companies made big advances in their field and Kaolin (chalk) is 90% of sheetrock.

Kaolin 90% content of sheetrock? I thought gypsum was the main ingredient.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Tim O'Connor
 

Even earlier were Santa Fe Ft-W flats (GSC) with bulkheads
delivered in 1952 -- 38 cars with 10'0" bulkheads. GM&O was
an early adopter too, 50+ cars by 1953.

Missouri Pacific was one railroad that converted a number of 53'-6"
flat cars by adding bulkheads for the transport of plasterboard. I
believe plasterboard and sheet rock are two names for the same product.

More specifically in 1955 the I-GN converted 14 flat cars in the
8500-8599 series for plasterboard service. Five more cars in this
series were converted by MoPac circa 1960 to bring the total of
converted cars to 19. The ORER lists the individual car numbers in
notes. I've seen photos of other cars during the 1950s that were
similarly converted.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Rich C <richchrysler@...>
 

Hello again,

Sorry, I meant to state below the fact that this was circa 1958.

Here in Ontario I recall an addition at home being done in "Gyprock" plaster wallboard. It came in sheets that were 2ft x 4ft. rather than the usual 4ft x 8ft sheets or larger that we see today. Also this Gyprock seemed to be rather heavy compared to today's stuff.

The point here being that if it commonly came in 2ft x 4ft bundles back then it would have been easy to simply load into boxcars.

Rich Chrysler

135161 - 135180 of 197031