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Re: Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

brianehni <behni@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Judging by the construction of the stairs leading to the car door opening the cars are no
longer in revenue service.
The "hatches" look like solar panels of some sort...electrictiy? hot water? the angle
looks rather purposeful...they
aren't for loading a commodity.
The cars are more interesting for their application of end doors than their
modifications....
Charlie Vlk
I thought they looked like sky lights.

Brian


Re: PRR Class GG Hopper (was Re: PRRT&HS annual meeting)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
The Class GG hopper car is a historically significant freight car design, as it is one of the first freight cars to feature the self-clearing "sawtooth" design familiar to everyone as a key design feature of a coal hopper.
Yes, greatly significant and a landmark car design. But the only reason for the "sawtooth" was because it has two bays. There were single-bay cars, hoppers in every meaningful sense, at least a decade earlier--they were just smaller.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Modeling the World War II period . . .

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Brian,

Personally I know a couple of modelers interested in the World War II
period. One is even a Pennsylvania fan, which I find ironic. I mean, the PRR
ran more trains on a holiday Sunday than most model railroads can manage, so
I wouldn't think you'd need war traffic to keep a P Co. layout humming. But
I digress.

The World War II period did see many improvements on US railroads,
especially large-scale installations of CTC and widespread adoption of
diesel-electric freight and switching locomotives. On the freight-car scene,
I'll stick my neck out and say the changes were less dramatic, largely
incremental and evolutionary. In the case of brake systems, the war provided
another excuse for delaying the total adoption of AB brakes in interchange.

There were several notable shifts in traffic patterns, including well-known
ones like the oil trains started when the German submarine campaign made
coastal shipping dangerous, and some lesser-known, like the all-rail
movement of coal to New England, partly for the same reason. Also, the
predominance of eastward traffic on the the western transcontinentals was
reversed, even as early in the war as 1942. And there was no fall-season
grain rush in 1942, as shipment of grain not already sold was prohibited to
eliminate the usual boxcar shortages.

It really isn't that hard to research things like traffic patterns or car
and locomotive production figures if you have access to trade literature,
such as "Railway Age," and to AAR statistics. The most severe limitations on
railroad photography were due to shortages, and/or rationing, of film,
gasoline, and tires. Nevertheless there was a lot of photo documentation,
both official and by hobbyists. "Trains" magazine published right through
the war, too, and is another source of contemporary information for the
period. (I relied on these and other sources in my January 2003 "Model
Railroader" article, "A year you can model: 1942, railroads go to war.")

So long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Modeling the World War II period . . .

ogdentowebercanyon
 

I model Union Pacific's Park City Branch in 1942 with the D&RGW also serving Park City and the Park City Consolidate Mine.

I was a little concerned about the flow of information but I am modeling a branchline so I know what the industries were so I can come to a pretty good conclusion about what types of cars they were receiving and shipping. I have also been studying some photos from right before the war and basing my rollingstock roster on that. I am working on the assumption, based on research, that the shipments in and out would have still been the same because life continued even though the war was going on. Of course, I have removed the shipment of automobiles and increased the shipment of scrap metal from old mining equipment which was gathered up to support the war effort. Mining in my area being modeled continued at lower levels so I assumed they would still need supplies such as lumber and other machinery. Farming in my area would have also continued as people needed to eat so I will have a load of John Deere tractors for delivery.

For me it works. When it comes to a mainline and what was being shipped when and where, I am with you in that it might be difficult to find information. Might vary on a case by case basis.

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@mchsi.com> wrote:
Jason's question about auto box cars in WW2 triggered a question or
two in my mind, maybe some here can help with.

Are there many individuals who model this period? If not, is it partly
because of security at the time suppressing information flow and
photo-taking?

It's such a powerful era historically, I've begun to consider more and
more this period as a modeling subject. But, because it was wartime,
maybe information about traffic flow, car loads and such would prove
highly difficult to research.

I wonder, too, how much the railroad industry changed during those
years, 1942-45. Hard to imagine certain changes -- upgrades -- did not
occur out of a forced necessity. For instance, increased traffic, did
it require signaling improvements on certain routes?

Anyone know of specific resources for modeling the World War II
period? Books, for instance? Is there a Yahoo modeling group focused
on these years?

Thank you much,

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


---




Yahoo! Groups Links






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Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
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Re: Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

Charlie Vlk
 

Judging by the construction of the stairs leading to the car door opening the cars are no longer in revenue service.
The "hatches" look like solar panels of some sort...electrictiy? hot water? the angle looks rather purposeful...they
aren't for loading a commodity.
The cars are more interesting for their application of end doors than their modifications....
Charlie Vlk


Modeling the World War II period . . .

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Jason's question about auto box cars in WW2 triggered a question or
two in my mind, maybe some here can help with.

Are there many individuals who model this period? If not, is it partly
because of security at the time suppressing information flow and
photo-taking?

It's such a powerful era historically, I've begun to consider more and
more this period as a modeling subject. But, because it was wartime,
maybe information about traffic flow, car loads and such would prove
highly difficult to research.

I wonder, too, how much the railroad industry changed during those
years, 1942-45. Hard to imagine certain changes -- upgrades -- did not
occur out of a forced necessity. For instance, increased traffic, did
it require signaling improvements on certain routes?

Anyone know of specific resources for modeling the World War II
period? Books, for instance? Is there a Yahoo modeling group focused
on these years?

Thank you much,

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


---


Re: PRRT&HS annual meeting

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

The entry for the class GG gondola has obviously not been edited. It
includes listings for plans and photos of GG1 electric locomotives!


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Dean Payne
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRRT&HS annual meeting

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, " Westerfield" <westerfield@...> wrote:

As usual, if you'd like me to bring any older kits to the meeting,
let me know. If things work out I'll be launching at least one
version of the GG hopper car. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not being familiar with the GG hopper, I went here:

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=GG

The photo there is said to be a builder's photo, date of 11/16/39.
I can't believe that both are true! The text says they were built
in 1895, which is believable, but I'd be surprised to find one
hanging around 45 years later! On the other hand, it looks like
there are air hoses hanging down, so maybe this is a 1939 photo.
Anyone know? Were they in interchange service at that late date?

Dean Payne





Yahoo! Groups Links


PRR Class GG Hopper (was Re: PRRT&HS annual meeting)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dean Payne wrote:
"Not being familiar with the GG hopper, I went here:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=GG

The photo there is said to be a builder's photo, date of 11/16/39.
I can't believe that both are true! The text says they were built
in 1895, which is believable, but I'd be surprised to find one
hanging around 45 years later! On the other hand, it looks like
there are air hoses hanging down, so maybe this is a 1939 photo.
Anyone know? Were they in interchange service at that late date?"

This photo was indeed taken in 1939; however, PY&A 1818 was no
longer in revenue service by this time. This car was one of a group
of historically significant locomotives, passenger cars, and freight
cars restored or replicated (e.g. Camden & Amboy John Bull and
coaches, not to be confused with the original in the Smithsonian) by
the Pennsylvania Railroad in the late 1930s for display at the 1939-
40 Worlds Fair. Items from this collection were occasionally placed
on public display during the following years. From 1969 through
1975, rolling stock from this collection was moved to the Railroad
Museum of Pennsylvania, where it formed the nucleus of the museum's
collection. Originally leased to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
by Penn Central, the collection was acquired outright in 1979. PY&A
1818 is currently on display at the museum today.
http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/collect.htm

The Class GG hopper car is a historically significant freight car
design, as it is one of the first freight cars to feature the self-
clearing "sawtooth" design familiar to everyone as a key design
feature of a coal hopper.


Ben Hom


Re: PRRT&HS annual meeting

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, " Westerfield" <westerfield@...> wrote:

As usual, if you'd like me to bring any older kits to the meeting,
let me know. If things work out I'll be launching at least one
version of the GG hopper car. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not being familiar with the GG hopper, I went here:

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=GG

The photo there is said to be a builder's photo, date of 11/16/39.
I can't believe that both are true! The text says they were built
in 1895, which is believable, but I'd be surprised to find one
hanging around 45 years later! On the other hand, it looks like
there are air hoses hanging down, so maybe this is a 1939 photo.
Anyone know? Were they in interchange service at that late date?

Dean Payne


Re: Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chet French wrote:
The reporting marks for forty 29'-3" IL covered hoppers that were marked Central Soya Co., Inc., or McMillen Feed Mills, and were around the midwest in the 1950's.
Excellent report, Chet <g>. Some of us enjoy having NS cars in our fleets (the earlier one, of course) and we could have CSX too. But now we need the decals! anyone ready for that project?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Greene" <frgreene290@...> wrote:

"Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@...> wrote:
Since when is CSX a fallen flag?? Have I missed something in the
news?


What's a CSX?

The reporting marks for forty 29'-3" IL covered hoppers that were
marked Central Soya Co., Inc., or McMillen Feed Mills, and were around
the midwest in the 1950's.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


C&NW

Justin Kahn
 

I second the motion: I used one of his O scale sets to letter an old Atlas PS-1, and good lettering greatly improved the whole car.
A sort of related question I have been meaning to ask: since I recently relocated to Winona and St Peter country, my interest in the railroad history of the area has increased, although not enough to join the C&NWHS (too many northeastern roads to spend resources on, plus my first love, shortlines). So far as I can tell, there is no yahoo listgroup for the C&NW?
Jace Kahn

Clark, in case you don't know, Greg Komar makes a wonderful set
of lettering for the CGW "PS-0" but I think he mistakenly calls it PS1
or something else, so modelers may not know it's out there.

Tim O'
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/


Re: Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

brianehni <behni@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Greene" <frgreene290@...> wrote:

"Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@...> wrote:
Since when is CSX a fallen flag?? Have I missed something in the news?

What's a CSX?

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN
Something that will occur in about 26 years.

Brian Ehni


Re: Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

Frank Greene
 

"Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@mitre.org> wrote:
Since when is CSX a fallen flag?? Have I missed something in the news?

What's a CSX?

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: Use of Autoboxcars during WW2?

jim peters
 

Jason,

This type of car would not have appeared on the Branchline I model - but I would look at the 50' Dbl. door boxcar from Proto - I think they are from the late 30's, maybe 1940.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC



From: "ogdentowebercanyon" <ogdentowebercanyon@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Use of Autoboxcars during WW2?
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:45:11 -0000

I am wondering what Autoboxcars were used for during World War 2?
Were they making cars during the war, I didn't think so? I model a
small branchline in Utah and I would assume that they could also use
auto boxcars for lumber or other merchandise? Thanks.

Jason
_________________________________________________________________
Find the best places on campus to get take out, study & unwind http://www.liveu.ca/explore.aspx


Re: Use of Autoboxcars during WW2?

ogdentowebercanyon
 

What about the production of John Deere tractors? Was their production also stopped during the war? Thanks.

Jason Sanford

Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:

You are right about autos; production was stopped in February,
1942. But remember that Jeeps and military trucks had to be transported
from the factories too. In any case, double-door cars were widely used
for long cargoes like lumber; on most roads only part of the fleet of
auto cars were actually carrying automobiles. Often many were in auto
parts service, and many in general service.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


Re: Use of Autoboxcars during WW2?

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Tony Thompson is right, of course, about automobile cars being used for
militay vehicles during Worrld War II. However, Richard Hendrickson's book
on Santa Fe furniture and automobile boxcars shows that also many of the
Santa Fe's cars were equipped to carry aircraft components and aircraft
engines during the war. (The book is available from the Santa Fe society at
atsfrr.net, and is an excellent general guide to the uses of this type of
equipment.)

so long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Anyone know the build date on the Walthers/Proto Erie Mill Gondola?

jim peters
 

Jason,

My info indicates a build date of 2/41.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC


From: "ogdentowebercanyon" <ogdentowebercanyon@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Anyone know the build date on the Walthers/Proto Erie Mill Gondola?
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:37:47 -0000

Does anyone have one of the new Walthers/proto mill gondolsa lettered
for Erie that could check the build date on the side. On the Walthers
site it looks like X-41 but not sure. Thanks.

Jason
_________________________________________________________________
Win a webcam! Nominate your friend�s Windows Live Space in the Windows Live Spaces Sweetest Space Contest and you both could win! http://www.microsoft.com/canada/home/contests/sweetestspace/default.aspx


Re: Anyone know the build date on the Walthers/Proto Erie Mill Gondola?

Chad Boas
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ogdentowebercanyon"
<ogdentowebercanyon@...> wrote:

Does anyone have one of the new Walthers/proto mill gondolsa
lettered
for Erie that could check the build date on the side. On the
Walthers
site it looks like X-41 but not sure. Thanks.

Jason
Car # 10407 BLT 2-41
Chad


Steam Era cars posted on Fallen Flags.

mjmcguirk@...
 

The two Central Vermont cars do, indeed look like real CV cars although the lettering is more than a little off to reflect how they would have looked in revenue service.

An extensive article on the 41000-series cars, including drawings, appeared in Model Railroader magazine a few years back (I can't access the mr mag index from work or I'd add the exact issue).

The 40000 series cars, which is the Howe truss car in two of the photos, were built in the early 1920s (the "1924 built date sounds correct, but again, I'm at work and don't have the date memorized). These cars had an interesting spotting feature -- the "caps" over the top of the bracing on the ends of the cars.

A number of these cars were equipped with hopper bottoms and rooftop hatches for grain service late in their service lives.

Interesting pictures, thanks,

Marty

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