Date   

Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 12, 2007, at 3:52 AM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

....One of my
problems with these lists is that while I've spent
my entire adult life working for a Railroad the jargon
used on this, (and many other), groups just goes right
by me. My pet peeve is referring to cars by "classes"
instead of number series or car type.
Russ, in the steam era a number of railroads assigned class
designations to their freight cars because it was a simpler way to
inventory them than by number series. The Pennsy, especially, needed
to identify cars by classes because of their crazy numbering system(?)
in which cars of the same design were scattered all through their
number series (though, making it easy for all of us, the PRR provided
the class designations in their ORER entries). Among other major
railroads with systematic car classification systems were the Southern
Pacific, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, Baltimore & Ohio, Seaboard, and
Burlington. In almost all cases, the class symbols were stenciled on
the cars and the railroads' live lists, freight car folios, and other
documentation were organized by class, not by car number. In those
cases, it's sort of perverse not to use the class designations when
referring to particular cars or groups of cars owned by those RRs. As
a Santa Fe modeler, a class symbol tells me instantly which Santa Fe
car is under discussion, whereas I'm far from being able to identify
most of them by number series.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

armprem
 

Tim,In my fifty plus years I have.Have you been that fortunate not to have met ,"The Emperor of the North"? Armand PremoSorry Mike,It just had to come out.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian



Jim, in my -fifty- years of model railroading I have not
met as many of these ultra-critical "bozos" as you have.
Please let us know who they are so we can all avoid them,
or at least we can offer assistance when they attack you
for striving to build your excellent models.


At 5/12/2007 04:23 PM Saturday, you wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Lindsay I think you are having difficulty with the logic here.
The person most likely to "condem" your models is one of the
self annointed craftsman/historian curmudgeons, and not one of
the less strict "bozo" modelers.
Tim, My experience of about 40 years in this hobby is that the
people that know the most, the craftsman/historian types have been the
most helpful. I'm sorry that your experience seems to been
otherwise. -Jim Pasquill



Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

Ray Meyer
 

All right, all right...... I started this thread; please allow me to
finish it.
My original post had two purposes. One was to suggest that this was not one
hobby. Judging by the posts that followed, many apparently agree with me.
It was not, however, to suggest that anyone was less of a human being
because they tended one direction or another, much less label anyone a bozo
or an elitist. The rivet counter and the toy train collector have their
thing and if they enjoy it, I think that is great. But someone has to see
that they have nothing in common.

That led to my second point which was that the increasing quality and
variety of RTR is taking away the incentive to become a craftsman; you now
can buy what used to take many hours to create. As the craftsmen disappear,
so does the incentive for manufacturers to cater to the craftsman's needs.

I think the thread has warped all out of control and I wish to end it. If
you agree with me about ending it, please show that agreement by NOT
POSTING.





--
Atty Raymond G. Meyer
110 E. Main St
Port Washington, WI 53074
262-284-5566
rgmeyer2@gmail.com


Tichy underframe/Kadee 58s

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

The Tichy underframe that comes with the USRA SS kit has a bit more
play in the coupler box pivot pin than I think it should. I found some
sleeves that came with some other Kadee couplers, but they don't quite
fit over the pin.
One option is to replace the coupler box with the Kadee box, but I
thought the Tichy box looked better. Had I known, I might have gone
with the Kadee 78 box/coupler. Or, does the Kadee work fine without
any modification? I can't be the first to have stumbled into this. I
used the McHenry scale coupler on my PMcK&Y rebuild, and the McHenry
has a different spring setup. I think the Kadee spring would require a
more precise coupler mounting, but I could be wrong.
Doe the Kadees work fine, or do I need to modify/replace the coupler
box?
Dean Payne


WAS: Re: Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

destron@...
 

Yes, I'm changing the subject without changing the subject line.

Does anyone know what/who the "Houser collection" is, and how one might
contact the owner of this collection of photos?

Frank Valoczy


Jim, in my -fifty- years of model railroading I have not
met as many of these ultra-critical "bozos" as you have.
Please let us know who they are so we can all avoid them,
or at least we can offer assistance when they attack you
for striving to build your excellent models.


At 5/12/2007 04:23 PM Saturday, you wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Lindsay I think you are having difficulty with the logic here.
The person most likely to "condem" your models is one of the
self annointed craftsman/historian curmudgeons, and not one of
the less strict "bozo" modelers.
Tim, My experience of about 40 years in this hobby is that the
people that know the most, the craftsman/historian types have been the
most helpful. I'm sorry that your experience seems to been
otherwise. -Jim Pasquill



Yahoo! Groups Links





!DSPAM:1291,46463322297281574424540!


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian and questions

Thomas Baker
 

Hope the acrimonious debate dies down. I signed on with the group because I want to know more. The elitists or rivet counters have raised my consciusness about modeling. The quality of their work, to the extent that I have viewed it and can determine from such a view in cyberspace, inspires me.

I might even get brave enough to enter one of my S-scale models in a prototype meet. The opportunity of talking face to face with the experts would be my reward. Keep it up, guys!

Tom


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

Tim O'Connor
 

Jim, in my -fifty- years of model railroading I have not
met as many of these ultra-critical "bozos" as you have.
Please let us know who they are so we can all avoid them,
or at least we can offer assistance when they attack you
for striving to build your excellent models.

At 5/12/2007 04:23 PM Saturday, you wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Lindsay I think you are having difficulty with the logic here.
The person most likely to "condem" your models is one of the
self annointed craftsman/historian curmudgeons, and not one of
the less strict "bozo" modelers.
Tim, My experience of about 40 years in this hobby is that the
people that know the most, the craftsman/historian types have been the
most helpful. I'm sorry that your experience seems to been
otherwise. -Jim Pasquill


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

red_gate_rover
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Lindsay I think you are having difficulty with the logic here.
The person most likely to "condem" your models is one of the
self annointed craftsman/historian curmudgeons, and not one of
the less strict "bozo" modelers.
Tim, My experience of about 40 years in this hobby is that the
people that know the most, the craftsman/historian types have been the
most helpful. I'm sorry that your experience seems to been
otherwise. -Jim Pasquill


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
That is correct Tom, we have been here before, too often. But when I read the people who disagree with Tony are "bozos" it makes me wonder if anyone remembers your old posting.
I assume, Tim (possibly incorrectly), that you know perfectly well it's not a matter of disagreement. My gripe is only with those who call the provision of historical information "elitism." I don't mind if you (or anyone) disagrees with me--provided you can make your case--nor if you know more than me. There are many, many areas in which I'm far from expert, in fact not even terribly knowledgeable. OTOH, there are a few areas in which I believe I truly AM an expert. In those areas, if you wish to disagree with me, it won't make me call you a "bozo," but you had better bring your best stuff.
But if it's your goal, you can get yourself called a bozo real quick by objecting to the knowledge of others, or provision of same.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

red_gate_rover
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Tom Madden wrote

We've plowed this ground before. See STMFC post #21170 from almost
four years ago. Tony Koester used it as the basis for an MR "Trains
of Thought" column.
That is correct Tom, we have been here before, too often. But when I
read the people who disagree with Tony are "bozos" it makes me wonder
if anyone remembers your old posting.
It's not anyone that disagrees with Tony Koester that was being
reffered to with contempt. It was anyone that would inappropriately
label somone who does try to do better as elitist or whatever else.
What's wrong with standing up for oneself if you happen to push the
envelope a bit? I suppose one should avoid calling anyone names at
all, but the term bozo is not all that harsh to decribe someone that
would put down another for doing better or having more knowledge. -
Jim Pasquill


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

Tim O'Connor
 

Lindsay I think you are having difficulty with the logic here.
The person most likely to "condem" your models is one of the
self annointed craftsman/historian curmudgeons, and not one of
the less strict "bozo" modelers.

At 5/12/2007 02:29 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Tony, Can I join you in being a carmudgeon? I strive to make my
models better! I don't like the folks who condem what I show. I
insist on defining the hohby for myself. Push us a little and we'll
define carmudgeon to you! <GG>
Lindsay Smith


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom Madden wrote

We've plowed this ground before. See STMFC post #21170 from almost
four years ago. Tony Koester used it as the basis for an MR "Trains
of Thought" column.
That is correct Tom, we have been here before, too often. But when I
read the people who disagree with Tony are "bozos" it makes me wonder
if anyone remembers your old posting. The same name-calling/labeling
has been sprouting over on the RPM group... maybe it's just a seasonal
thing, I don't know. I do know there are many "experts" here who have
not built a model in many years, while many of the so-called "bozos"
are prolific modelers, even if many of their models are not 100%
accurate historical replicas. Oh well maybe I'm just out of step.

Certainly I've read here recently that I should not say anything at
all unless I know with utter certainty that what I am writing is 100%
irrefutable historical truth. And since I never worked for a railroad
and have only a paltry few actual historical documents, I guess I'd
better just shut up.

Tim O'


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Or, for that matter, make those that are just on
the borderline know for sure they are unwelcome.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 12 May, 2007 10:25
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian



>Frank Valoczy wrote:
>> Is it elitist? I don't know. I can see others looking at it
that way,
>> sure; from my own point of view, it isn't, though.
>
>The bozos who use elitism as a form of complaint seem to define
>it as, "you're much more skillful/more knowledgeable than me
and I
>don't want you to remind me of it." [ducking for cover]
>
>Tony Thompson


Mike, are ad hominem commentaries now welcome on STMFC? I am
starting to think I don't belong here, since I derive no
pleasure
from denigrating other model railroaders. (Although I have been
known to make jests occasionally.)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian

W. Lindsay Smith <wlindsays2000@...>
 

Tony, Can I join you in being a carmudgeon? I strive to make my
models better! I don't like the folks who condem what I show. I
insist on defining the hohby for myself. Push us a little and we'll
define carmudgeon to you! <GG>
Lindsay Smith
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
2.) We should all Challenge ourselves to take the next step, from
where ever you are now to a level more likened to a Crafsman,
where
you do strive for authenticity.
Nope. Some will choose just to have fun. We don't HAVE to
challenge ourselves unless that is the kind of hobby we want.
Personally, Greg, I'm with you, but many aren't.
My gripe is with the guys who just want to have fun--a
legitimate
choice, in my mind--but then complain about "rivet counting" and
"elitism" and so forth. Scroom all.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

red_gate_rover
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Mike, are ad hominem commentaries now welcome on STMFC? I am
starting to think I don't belong here, since I derive no pleasure
from denigrating other model railroaders. (Although I have been
known to make jests occasionally.)
Tim, I am sorry but I don't understand where you are coming from
this comment. How did commenting on how unfair it is for some
modelers to label as elitist or worse those modelers who try harder to
be more accurate turn into denegrating the modelers who don't care
to be more accurate?
-Jim Pasquill


Smoky Valley

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I recently purchased from a seller in Tallahassee, FL an HO c. 1946-7 Varney "Super Mikado", very nicely built and finished, and little used (this was the early sprung Mikado that used the same cast lead alloy boiler as the Varney Pacific). It is lettered on the cast aluminum Vanderbilt tender "SMOKY VALLEY". Does this private road name ring any bells at all with any of the Florida contingent on this list?

The seller told me that he had had the locomotive for many years, but has no recollection at all from whom he might have purchased it. I am very much interested in recording for the next owner the provenance of this fairly uncommon and pretty robust early Steam Era Freight Car hauling model locomotive.

Any help or leads are much appreciated (BTW, the spelling is SMOKY, nor SMOKEY!).

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim O:
Mike, are ad hominem commentaries now welcome on STMFC? I am
starting to think I don't belong here, since I derive no pleasure
from denigrating other model railroaders. (Although I have been
known to make jests occasionally.)
We've plowed this ground before. See STMFC post #21170 from almost
four years ago. Tony Koester used it as the basis for an MR "Trains of
Thought" column.

Tom Madden


Re: 3-D printers in the news, and NYC and UP modeling

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On May 8, 8:28am, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

The other large road mentioned with (but much less) trepidation was the
UP.
Mike, do you have any idea of why UP models might not sell? Does this
have
to do with the recent lawsuits, or just model railroaders' resentment of
same? I have noted with some confusion, the lack of a comparable number
of
resin kits for UP in HO, when compared to the SP and ATSF. What is the
possible explanation for this?

Elden,

There are many "possible" explanations. First is the possibility
that resin models do not follow the "usual" concepts of supply and demand.
It is "possible" that many resin models are produced not because a
particular model is "needed" by the marketplace, but instead because a
skilled modeler was interested in building a master.
Another possibility is that many UP cars are very similar to cars
available in plastic. In many cases the primary difference between the
resin car and the plastic car is the presence of Alternating Center Rivets
(ACR).

If we look at box cars, we see that if we IGNORE the ACR [gasp!], 93% of
the fleet in 1951 can be modeled in plastic or resin without kitbashing.

For Automobile cars, we're not so lucky. For lack of the A-50-12, A-50-7,
A-50-18, and A-50-21 classes, we can only model 54% of the Automobile
cars.

Covered Hoppers are no problem; 100% of the fleet can be modeled in
plastic.

Flat cars are boring, and as a result only 10% of the fleet can be modeled
using the P2K (or Pittsburgh Scale Models) kit.

Gondolas could also use a little help. Because of the lack of G-50-7
models, only 72% of the fleet is modelable.

Hoppers (including ballast cars) could also use some help. Currently,
about 50% of the fleet can be modeled using the Atlas and Marklin cars.

Stock cars are in reasonably good shape, at 71%, but would be alot better
if the S-40-10 were available.

Tank cars were few, and there are no models, though kitbashing is a
possibility.


So, I guess the situation for UP modelers isn't that bad, and I imagine
that sales can't be that bad either, or else we wouldn't have all of these
kits available!

Regards,

-Jeff








--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/Modeler Historian

Tim O'Connor
 

Frank Valoczy wrote:
Is it elitist? I don't know. I can see others looking at it that way,
sure; from my own point of view, it isn't, though.
The bozos who use elitism as a form of complaint seem to define
it as, "you're much more skillful/more knowledgeable than me and I
don't want you to remind me of it." [ducking for cover]

Tony Thompson

Mike, are ad hominem commentaries now welcome on STMFC? I am
starting to think I don't belong here, since I derive no pleasure
from denigrating other model railroaders. (Although I have been
known to make jests occasionally.)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Modeler/Craftsman/ Modeler Historian and questions

red_gate_rover
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Frank Valoczy wrote:
Is it elitist? I don't know. I can see others looking at it that
way,
sure; from my own point of view, it isn't, though.
The bozos who use elitism as a form of complaint seem to define
it as, "you're much more skillful/more knowledgeable than me and I
don't want you to remind me of it."
[ducking for cover]
and someone else wrote:
To those who complain about rivet counting, I have a response that's
sorta
become a standard: "Of course I count the rivets. I have to make them
myself, so why would I want to make any more than absolutely
necessary?"

Great stuff. This is the kind of thinking that made me feel right at
home here after reading just a few posts. There are handful of us
that model Maine Two Footers as accurately as we can muster and that's
how we have our fun. We are sometimes called the Two-Foot Police and
elitist, and are accused of taking the fun out of the hobby. What
bunk. What they really mean is "I want you to enjoy the hobby in the
same way that I do, and because you strive for something better you
make me feel inadequate, so I'll tear you down." The good news is that
these types are very few and when you look more closely it seems that
there are more people that look up to those that strive for something
better.

Here's some modeling questions. I've started collecting kits to build
my 1929 freightcar roster. I picked up a Sylvan CNR OB boxcar which
should be correct for 4/29 on. The kit comes with AB brakes and no
information on placement of K brakes. Is there a readily available
reference for K brake placement? Perhaps a comprehensive article has
been written on detailing this kit or about this class of cars? Who
makes the right K brakes to use with this car, Tichy, Cal Scale,
other? What trucks would be correct?
Thank you. -Jim Pasquill

130141 - 130160 of 192701