Date   

SAL "Silver Comet" or "Silver Star "decals?

oliver
 

Looking for HO Seaboard Air Line decals with the "Silver Comet" or
"Silver Star" slogan for 24300-499, 24800-999 and 25300-499 PS-1
boxcar series built from 1948-52. Everyone makes the "Meteor" slogan
for other cars, but I can't find these two at the usual suspects. Any
ideas?
Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC


NP '37 AAR Boxcars

Andy Carlson
 

Matt Herson brought up some interesting details about the 15000-17999 series of NP 10' IH 40' boxcars.

I notice that almost all of manufactured HO 10' IH AAR boxcars utilize pre-war Youngstown doors of the 5/6/5 "Short" style. (The "short" is my preferred way to differentiate the door's 3 section's jpoint panel- a short is virtually the same as a regular panel, while the "medium" and "tall" have splice panels readily discernable from the doors panels).

These NP cars did use pre-war Youngstown 5/6/5 doors, though the splice panels on these NP doors were of the "tall" spacing variety. Fortunately we do have a good 6' 5/6/5T EYD, a door Intermountain supplies with their "Modified" AAR Boxcar (10'6" IH).

Intermountain also has ladder sprues for 8 rung ladders for 10'0 IH cars, unfortunately you need two sets to get both side AND end ladders. The sprue does have some extra short ladders which could be donors for the missing 8th rung for the IM 7 rung end ladders. (The end ladders are 7 rung because IM tooled these ladders for the GN 12 panel 10'0 IH 12 panel boxcars. GN used a drop grap for the first step on the car's ends.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


: Greater New York Area Cane Sugar Refining

cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
 

Matt:
Your right. Domino's plant was not served by railcars, but its
predecessor 19th and early 20th century ops were.

The large National Sugar operations (Jack Frost brand)
across the Hudson in Edgewater, was
extensively served by rail throughout the period covered
by this group. Both of these finished sugar for the most
part in the post 1950s. Along with the Flow Sweet plant
on the Hudson near/in Habirshaw, they originally only
received bundled cane from Caribbean points. Cuba was
the largest supplier prior to the 1960s, but Brazil took
up the slack with partially processed cane sugar.

Domino (Brooklyn) produced the greatest variety of
packaged cane goods of any plant in North America. They
were sole source of some "ethnic" products.

The Flow Sweet operation produced supersaturated sucrose
syrup, as well as regular cane syrups for the producers
of soft drinks of all kinds, as well as for packers
of various type of fruit products.
The local NYC switcher was referred to as the "Sugar House
Run", into the 1970s. This switcher among other places,also
served Chevy's Tarrytown Plant, although the latter also
received other service. FLOW SWEET (Flo-Sweet Brand?),
distributed its products in 1930s-60s in straight heavy
duty tank trucks (principally AUTOCARS) that had stainless
tanks and dark blue paintwork. The product was dense and
required both insulated tanks and heaters. These trucks
ranged widely into the Mid-Atlantic and New England States.

At the ToC there had been other specialized cane sugar
processors all benefitting from the deepwater access
provided by the Port of New York.
Of interest, to the operations oriented mavens,
the "Sugar House Run" was in charge of a kleptomanic boss,
that was caught stealing batteries from Chevy in the 1960s.

He kept his job, thanks to the Brotherhood , and Chevrolets
good graces. He was put on probation and because he had
kept the several hundred batteries stolen in his basement
(proving he was psychologically disturbed), served no time.
Chevy settled for return of all batteries, a five
thousand dollar payment for damages and forbade his
presence on their property. This made for some interest-
ing moments, and since there was a local agreement made
concerning him, he got to stand in a crappy phone box
location on some foul nights. I'll bet that even within
the esoteric conditions bruited about by so many
operating afficionadoes, nobody has the case of the
crooked conductor as part of the train operating format.
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Herson" <mherson@...> wrote:
...........
I'm pretty sure the Domino refinery in the NY Times article was not
served by rail. I've seen Jack Frost 3 bay PS-2's in the BEDT
(Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal) yard several blocks north. While
the sightings were in the early 1960s the BEDT was still steam powered
and switching steam era freight cars. All BEDT traffic was by car
float, no direct rail connection.

Matt Herson


C&EI Express Box Cars 1-5

Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
 

The C&EI purchased the subject cars in 1945, so by the timeframe of my 1953
layout they would have been reweighed a couple of times.

Does anyone have any in-service photos that can tell me how the C&EI did the
reweighing. Did they paint out the old weights and dates with orange paint
and re-use blue lettering, or did they just use C&EI freight car red and
white lettering?

Any help is appreciated.

Andy Cich


Re: Prototype verification, or not

Matt Herson
 

Schuyler and Group,

For a NP 1937 AAR box car the number series should be 15000-17999. Some cars were renumbered but that happened after the cut off date for this list. The paint scheme is a representation of an as built car (1940-1) and I have seen a photo taken in the early 1950s of a car still in this scheme. However the Monad on the right side of the car should be centered on the middle side panel between the door and car end. On the model the Monad is too close to the door. The cars had wood running boards until scrapping or removal. Can't tell from the photo but the car should have 8 rung ladders.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson


question

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Hi guys,
Perhaps not a "freight car" question but steam era for sure, does
anyone know if there were ever scale plans published for the Wabash or
Ann Arbor RR caboose with the "streamlined" cupola. I believe the
Wabash cars were 2800 series. Sorry for the deviation from freight car
content. I did a search on the MR magazine index and found nothing of
any help.
Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Prototype verification, or not

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian J Carlson (replying to Schuyler) wrote:
SP B-50-12, see messages 7270, and 7269 for further information. Message 7269 has further messages below. As an aside, I thought you were a later 50's modeler, the kit has K brakes and were out of service by 1953.
Starting in the fall of 1949, SP rebuilt the best 675 or so of the surviving cars of Class B-50-12 into an entirely new appearance, new steel sides and roofs, etc. A moderate number, around 50 cars, then went into MW service with SPMW numbers. A very few escaped either fate and remained in revenue service with original sides (though with AB brakes)--the last went by 1953--but these were rare and certainly not representative of matters post-1950.
Anyone modeling after January, 1950 should, IMO, not have original USRA cars lettered for SP in operation, even on an SP layout. They were then pretty darn rare in original configuration.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Prototype verification, or not

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tim:
Where did you get your information? I was going by information in Ed Hawkins
article in RMJ. The handbrake in the photo of 29756 (October 1989 RMJ, or
Page 70 of Freight Car Models Vol II) is definitely a Universal Type 5700 XL
Hand brake with M1704 malleable iron hand wheel (Ref RPC 10 page 46.).
Actually, I can't be certain about the hand brake, but I am sure about the
wheel. The running board does not look like Apex either, and the trucks do
not appear to have the bulbous lower spring support typical of ASF A-3 ride
control truck, they look more like Barber S-2's (RPC 4) but I wasn't sure so
I didn't mention them in my first email

NP 29500-29999 were built in 1946. They had APEX steel running
boards, 4/4 ends, 8-rung ladders, ASF A-3 ride control trucks,
and AJAX hand brake. And the doors had a 5-7-6 pattern of the
corrugations (counting the raised corrugation) which does not
appear to match the one on the model.

In other words, it looks like IRC stuck it to you. BFS.
Brian Carlson


Re: Prototype verification, or not

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not

SGL wrote:
OK, so I bought some new cars, hoping for the best, but
liking the cars
anyway . . .
And the Brian wrote a good deal, ending with:

As an aside, I thought you
were a later
50's modeler, the kit has K brakes and were out of service by 1953.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Thanks, Brian, for a very informative post, I appreciate that a lot.

There's a split here. MY own interest is circa 1950; the model RR club is ca. 1955

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Re: Prototype verification, or not

Tim O'Connor
 

IM 1937 AAR 40' box, lettered for NP 29835
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45703.htm
Schuyler

NP 29500-29999 were built in 1946. They had APEX steel running
boards, 4/4 ends, 8-rung ladders, ASF A-3 ride control trucks,
and AJAX hand brake. And the doors had a 5-7-6 pattern of the
corrugations (counting the raised corrugation) which does not
appear to match the one on the model.

In other words, it looks like IRC stuck it to you. BFS.

Tichy Single Sheathed Boxcar (sic)
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/tichy/html/T452609.htm
In the late 1940's the SP rebuilt its B-50-12 class into steel
sheathed B-50-12A's. So an original B-50-12 with KC brakes may
not be appropriate for you, depending on your era. Otherwise the
model is ok, except for the trucks, which should be Andrews w/
short journal retainer bars (Accurail or Red Caboose I think).
And SP trucks were painted body color, although this late in
its life you probably couldn't tell.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Prototype verification, or not

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

SGL wrote:
OK, so I bought some new cars, hoping for the best, but liking the cars
anyway . . .

IM 1937 AAR 40' box, lettered for NP 29835
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45703.htm
This comes, of course, with a representation of a wood roof walk, which is
the first question.
Should it be wood or, if not, which variety of steel walk should it have?
And of course, is this
car actually something the NP had?
NP 29500-29999, blt Feb 1946, Gypsum or Morton running board, universal
brakewheel, 6' doors, earlier style wide riveted youngstown doors, (I
believe Dan Hall sells these doors) 8 rung ladders, 4/4 ends, rectangular
roof. Nice photo in the October 1989 RMJ article by Ed Hawkins. He may be
able to breakdown which numbers had Gypsum and Morton running boards. The
main issue is that you say IM 1937 AAR which would be 10' IH height cars,
this series of NP cars were 10'-6" cars.

Strangely IM has 26000, and 27000 series numbers on their 10'-6" modified
AAR boxcar, I'm confused?
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45801.htm

Branchline also offers this car.
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/40boxcars/40%27aar6/bra_1425.jpg

Tichy Single Sheathed Boxcar (sic)
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/tichy/html/T452609.htm
Nicely assembled, and the paint isn't QUITE as dark as in this image. It
seems to me that this is
one of the actual prototypes of these kits (and yes, I know we've
discussed this on this list, but a
bit if time with the search engine didn't find it for me, sorry). What
shortcomings/needed fixes
would apply to this car?
SP B-50-12, see messages 7270, and 7269 for further information. Message
7269 has further messages below. As an aside, I thought you were a later
50's modeler, the kit has K brakes and were out of service by 1953.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Prototype verification, or not

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi all

OK, so I bought some new cars, hoping for the best, but liking the cars anyway . . .

IM 1937 AAR 40' box, lettered for NP 29835
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45703.htm
This comes, of course, with a representation of a wood roof walk, which is the first question.
Should it be wood or, if not, which variety of steel walk should it have? And of course, is this
car actually something the NP had?

Tichy Single Sheathed Boxcar (sic)
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/tichy/html/T452609.htm
Nicely assembled, and the paint isn't QUITE as dark as in this image. It seems to me that this is
one of the actual prototypes of these kits (and yes, I know we've discussed this on this list, but a
bit if time with the search engine didn't find it for me, sorry). What shortcomings/needed fixes
would apply to this car?

Thanks very much.

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Cars wanted

Richard White
 

I have been looking for some cars, mostly hoppers, for some time but without luck.
I would like to buy:
one or two CB&Q war emergency composite hoppers, either the Proto 2000 model or the Accurail model would be fine,
four or five Illinois Central offset side twin hoppers, I know that no accurate model has been produced at a modest price so reasonable stand ins would be acceptable,
two Southern boxcars,
one C&O boxcar,
one Wabash boxcar,
I'm in Botswana so you should be willing to ship there. I am happy to consider offers of two cars from this list.
Any offers?
Thank you in advance
Richard White


Re: CSRM Philip R. Hastings photo ID question

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

There is nothing to substitute contacting the museums's librarians
directly at
<mailto:rrmuseumlibrary%40parks.ca.org>rrmuseumlibrary@parks.ca.org.
They are truly there to serve you, and as they can make easier your
quest for information they will do so. Although Ellen is still in
charge, she also has taken on the new title of Director of
Collections for the entire museum with all the wider responsibilities
implied. The new librarian Cara, is extremely good, will do her
professional best, and will summon help from Ellen or Kyle Wyatt when
needed.

A lot of the Hastings negatives are without any localizing
identifications, and in this regard a lot of motivated visitors find
it very useful to look through them by hand over a light box (not an
unpleasant chore). A number of such visitors have been extremely
helpful in being able to identify locations and provide supporting
annotation. Jim Singer from Chicago did this on some Soo/DSSA photos
about a month ago, and did the same on some IC photos several years
ago.

Denny


--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: CSRM Philip R. Hastings photo ID question

W.R.Dixon
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Thanks for that info Tim - I'll follow up with them. Sacramento is a 15 hours drive from here, and I'm not sure when I'll be able to check out the collection in person.
Rob Kirkham
So how about some long term planning.
The NMRA National is in Sacramento in 2011.

Bill Dixon


Re: CSRM Philip R. Hastings photo ID question

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks for that info Tim - I'll follow up with them. Sacramento is a 15 hours drive from here, and I'm not sure when I'll be able to check out the collection in person.

Rob Kirkham


Re: 52' Gondolas

Larry Kline
 

Jace Kahn asked:
Can suggest a good candidate for lettering my latest O scale KTM 52'
fishbelly-side gondola, either northeastern or midwestern, ca.
1940-1955. (Not B&O)

This model is similar to Bethlehem Steel gons that are shown in the
1943 and several later CBCycs. In addition to B&O they were owned by
CRP/CNJ LV, RDG, P&WV and WM. Many of them were built with Duryea
underframes. Sunshine did them recently in HO.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: 52' Gondolas

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Justin,

Juast for something different >> McKeesport Connecting Ry. Steel shapes, bulk load , pipes, and most everything else. Pittsburgh based short line RR.

Fred Freitas

Justin Kahn <harumd@hotmail.com> wrote:
The message traffic has been thin lately, and Memorial Day weekend won't
help, but I wonder if any list members with fuller resources than I
currently have access to can suggest a good candidate for lettering my
latest O scale KTM 52' fishbelly-side gondola, either northeastern or
midwestern, ca. 1940-1955. Nothing so pedestrian as NYC, PRR, or B&O,
please (Actually B&O is not pedestrian, but I already have one done up for
that, as I do for Erie).

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
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Re: gons loaded with coal

Malcolm H. Houck
 

A number of eastern roads rostered low side gons for coal
service.........often referred to as "Shovel Cars." They were often used to load business
consumers' bins, which had a coal bin door opening right out on to the consignee
siding.

D&H, MEC, L&NE, LV (I think), CNJ and B&M had these low sides gons, though I
can't say if they were purpose built, acquired elsewhere or what.

I can recall seeing a shovel car being unloaded at Preston Coal, in Lowell,
Mass. as later as the mid-1970s. The process was to stand a couple of guys
right in the gon, in the coal pile, and then have 'em bail it out by
shovel........onto a pile on the ground, after which it was loaded into bags for sale
as stove coal........

Mal Houck



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


Re: CSRM Philip R. Hastings photo ID question

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Rob,

Maybe Tony Thompson or somebody else can elaborate, but the CSRM Library has organized their Hashings Prints by Railroad - the Canadian Pacific in your case. Within their CP classifications, there are two additional coding numbers: - one, Hastings' own code number; and two, the CSRM's negative number. The "CP 213" may be the Hastings code. On the back of the print will be the CSRM's Negative number.

You should probably email the library at rrmuseumlibrary@parks.ca.org with a description of your request. Ellen, the Chief Librarian, can be very helpful in fielding your request although it may be worth your while to review the entire Hastings' CP file in Sacramento.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Rob Kirkham wrote:

Hello - its been a while....

I've attempting to identify tank cars suitable to the steam era CPR
operations in BC that I model, and came across a nice photo taken by Philip
R. Hastings in 1951 in Nelson B.C. While the photo is focused on two CPR
steam locos 5261 and 5758, in the background are two tank cars - one of
which appears to possible be a UTLX type X. Trouble is the reporting marks
are murky - I think I can see SCLX and some digits, but that's pure guess
work. The copy of the photo I am looking at is reproduced in David Wilkie
and Robert Turner's newest book - a very good read - titled Steam Along the
Boundary, published by Sononis Press, on p.184.

Being a reproduction in a book, it isn't possible to clearly make out the
reporting marks on the smaller possible type X car. Since there is enough
there to get close, however, I imagine the print itself would be legible at
least under magnification.

The book credits the photo to California State Railroad Museum, 213. Not
sure what the 213 refers to. Yes, I know I could try to order a copy of the
print from the Museum, but I was hoping someone might have done so already
and could simply look over their copy of the print and advise whether the
car number is legible, and if so what it says.

So - by chance - has anyone got a copy of the photo they could give a
careful look at for me? Thanks in advance if you do.

If not, I wouldn't mind a little bit of direction on how best to order a
print from CSRM - I can't see a reference to Hasting's photos on their web
page, and so feel a little uncertain about this.

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