Date   

Helium Car Kits and Decals.

Edwin C. Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
 

Another old wood kit for these was made by UMPCO.
I think of Philadelphia, Pa.

I am not recommending that you go look for it but it only
cost $.98. I came in a brown paper envelope.

All wood no trucks or couplers. Very CRUDE. It had a grey
painted panel that said U.S.Navy.

Here in Akron, Ohio those cars were regularly seen at the
Goodyear Aircraft Corp. later called Goodyear Aerospace
before being sold off to Loral. This is where most Navy
Blimps were built as well as Corsair aircraft in the famous
Zeppelin hanger. This was switched off the B&O's CT&V
branch.

They were also seen near Cleveland not far from NASA
Louis Research Center. This was also on a B&O line.

Edwin C. Kirstatter, B&O Modeler.


Re: IMRC Rib Side Car announcement.

Jerry Jackson <centralfloridashops@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jerry Jackson"
<centralfloridashops@...> wrote:

I scanned the appropriate section of my just received dealer sheet for
the aforementioned rib side cars. It should be the last photo album
in the "photos" group. Once approved that is.

Jerry Jackson
Kissimmee, FL
I guess they're in alphabetical order, sorry.


Re: Steel Boxcar Ends Happened...When?

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

The earliest corrugated steel end I have seen was on an experimental all-steel box car built by AC&F for NYC in 1910. It had 7-7 inverse corrugations as I recall - I can't find the builder's photo at the moment. The earliest use of outward corrugations was on 27 cars of a 1,000-car delivery of Friso box cars in 1912, 7-8 ends. By 1914 many roads were ordering them including UP (outward) and DL&W (inward). - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steel Boxcar Ends Happened...When?


Shawn Beckert wrote:
"Hmmm.....I was of the impression that steel boxcars - even steel
ends on wood cars - weren't all that common until the mid-1930's
or later. Either the photo date is too early, or steel cars began to
show up much earlier than I realized."

You've fallen victim to another common hobby misconception - the
once concerning "old-time" freight cars which holds that if it's
1920s or earlier, steel cars were few and far between.

Murphy had steel ends available as early as 1912; the first
experimental steel boxcars appeared as early as 1906, and before the
US entry into WWI, PRR (Class X25, 1914) and NYC (Lots 330-B, 337-B -
339-B, and 341-B - 343-B, 1916) were building steel boxcars in
quantity.

While it's true that the roads that first used steel freight cars
tended to be concentrated in the northeast, the quantities built
were enormous. By your "mid-1930s or later" cut-off date, PRR and
NYC would be finished with their initial steel boxcar programs,
producing over 29,000 Class X29 and over 30,000 USRA-design steel
boxcars.

Ben Hom


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

Ray Breyer
 

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
>>I have no information about helium extraction from natural gas fields
in Indiana, but the main source of helium in North America was the
National Helium Reserve near Amarillo, TX.
Thus most helium shipments originated not on the Southern Pacific but
on the Santa Fe, which probably interchanged eastbound helium cars at
Kansas City (via the MoPac to St. Louis), Chicago, or (to avoid Chicago
congestion) Peoria.

Thanks for this information Richard. I Googled helium production and came across a nifty resource from the University of Wisconsin:
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/EcoNatRes/EcoNatRes-idx?type=article&did=ECONATRES.0056.0849.0034&isize=M
The link came from the USGS; it's their "Mineral Yearbooks" digitized for the years 1932 to the present.
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/usbmmyb.html (historical books)
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/ (current books)

Anyway, the USGS stated that basically all helium reserves were in Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico. That proves that the cars were heading east LOADED, not empty. The books give national production statistics for helium production, and mention that virtually all of it was shipped in tank cars. The books also mention (in a broad way) major users of the element, but not the actual destinations for the tanks.

So...where were they going? Did the Navy still have blimps operating out of the Chesapeake Bay area in the early 1950s? Or are these heading to West Virginia?

Ray Breyer




---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.


IMRC Rib Side Car announcement.

Jerry Jackson <centralfloridashops@...>
 

I scanned the appropriate section of my just received dealer sheet for
the afore mentioned rib side cars. It should be the last photo album
in the "photos" group. Once approved that is.

Jerry Jackson
Kissimmee, FL


Re: Portland, OR area hobby shops

Charlie Vlk
 

Pardon me if I missed it in the emails on the subject but I always enjoyed visiting The Hobby Smith.
My experience with the shop goes back to the old shop when Lowell Smith owned it, but from what
I understand the new owner has kept up the quality of the shop.
1809 NE 39th Ave., Portland, OR 97212 (1 block North of NE Sandy Blvd. 503.284.1912 http://www.hobbysmith.com/
Charlie Vlk


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 12, 2007, at 5:47 AM, Ray Breyer wrote:

My question is where were they coming FROM, and where were they
heading TO? I'm assuming that they originated on the SP, but how did
they get to Peoria from there? And I've read that there was (is?) a
large deposit of naturally-occuring helium in the natural gas fields
in central Indiana, but where were those fields specifically in the
1940s/1950s?
I have no information about helium extraction from natural gas fields
in Indiana, but the main source of helium in North America was the
National Helium Reserve near Amarillo, TX. According to Wikipedia:

The National Helium Reserve is an American strategic reserve of over a
billion cubic feet of Helium gas, stored at the Cliffside Storage
Facility about 12 miles northwest of Amarillo, Texas in a natural
geologic gas storage formation. It was established in 1925 as a supply
of lifting gas for airships, and in the 1950s became an important
source of coolant during the Space Race and Cold War.

Thus most helium shipments originated not on the Southern Pacific but
on the Santa Fe, which probably interchanged eastbound helium cars at
Kansas City (via the MoPac to St. Louis), Chicago, or (to avoid Chicago
congestion) Peoria.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Portland, OR area hobby shops

Richard Townsend
 

Dyslexia strikes again.  As the other Richard points out, Beaverton is what most would call WEST of Portland.  WEST.  And Tammies is is Beaverton, which makes Tammies west of Portland, too.  And for good measure, Forest Grove is west of Portland, too.

And as for Vic's Hobby Shop, as far as I know it still is in Portland (Portland is east of Beaverton), but I never have been there (to Vic's). 


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:23 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Portland, OR area hobby shops






On Jun 11, 2007, at 10:54 AM, richtownsend@... wrote:

Tammies, in Beaverton (east of Portland out OR 26)....
Uh, Rich, the last time I flew over the Portland area Beaverton was
WEST of Portland. Have they moved it? If so, we should notify the FAA
so they can change its location on the sectional.

Richard Hendrickson







________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Steel Boxcar Ends Happened...When?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Shawn Beckert wrote:
"Hmmm.....I was of the impression that steel boxcars - even steel
ends on wood cars - weren't all that common until the mid-1930's
or later. Either the photo date is too early, or steel cars began to
show up much earlier than I realized."

You've fallen victim to another common hobby misconception - the
once concerning "old-time" freight cars which holds that if it's
1920s or earlier, steel cars were few and far between.

Murphy had steel ends available as early as 1912; the first
experimental steel boxcars appeared as early as 1906, and before the
US entry into WWI, PRR (Class X25, 1914) and NYC (Lots 330-B, 337-B -
339-B, and 341-B - 343-B, 1916) were building steel boxcars in
quantity.

While it's true that the roads that first used steel freight cars
tended to be concentrated in the northeast, the quantities built
were enormous. By your "mid-1930s or later" cut-off date, PRR and
NYC would be finished with their initial steel boxcar programs,
producing over 29,000 Class X29 and over 30,000 USRA-design steel
boxcars.


Ben Hom


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Is there something peculiar about the air in Texas that helium can
be extracted there more easily than anywhere else? Linde/Air
Products has plants all over the country for other gases..."

That's because helium isn't extracted from the atmosphere, but from
natural gas:
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/HH/doh2_print.html


Ben Hom


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

mike turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

IIRC, helium comes out of a well and not out of the air. :)

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC

timboconnor@... wrote:

Is there something peculiar about the air in Texas that helium can be
extracted there more easily than anywhere else? Linde/Air Products has
plants all over the country for other gases...



Steel Boxcar Ends Happened...When?

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

On Page 389 of John Signor's "Southern Pacific's Western
Division" book there is a photograph of the station at Antioch,
California. Spotted near the station is a boxcar with what would
appear to be a 5-5 steel end. The photo is dated 1912.

Hmmm.....I was of the impression that steel boxcars - even steel
ends on wood cars - weren't all that common until the mid-1930's
or later. Either the photo date is too early, or steel cars began to
show up much earlier than I realized.

Any thoughts?

Shawn Beckert


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Is there something peculiar about the air in Texas that helium can be
extracted there more easily than anywhere else? Linde/Air Products has
plants all over the country for other gases...

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "oracle1728" <pscheuerman@...>
There were several war era government helium plants built: Otis,
Kansas, Keyes, Oklahoma, and Masterson, Texas (north of Amarillo)
being 3 I know of. There was a pipeline to a storage field west of
Amarillo. I remember seeing lines of helium cars on the siding east
of Otis bound for points unknown. Anyway the helium traffic
originated on the MP, Santa Fe, and Rock Island.
The Otis plant closed down in the mid 60's and I presume the
others followed soon after. The old Rock Island track to the storage
field in Amarillo is gone too. There are a number of private helium
plants that refine and liquify the helium and ship it out in trucks.

Perry Scheuerman


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

MOFWCABOOSE@...
 

FWIW, the Navy was still operating blimps out of Mustin Field, at the
Philadelphia Naval Base, at least as late as 1953, and probably later then that out
of Lakehurst, NJ. As a boy I lived in Sewell, NJ, about 15 miles SSE of
Philadelphia, and blimps were a common sight. You could expect to see one or more any
clear day when the wind was not too strong.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


**************************************
See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

oracle1728 <pscheuerman@...>
 

There were several war era government helium plants built: Otis,
Kansas, Keyes, Oklahoma, and Masterson, Texas (north of Amarillo)
being 3 I know of. There was a pipeline to a storage field west of
Amarillo. I remember seeing lines of helium cars on the siding east
of Otis bound for points unknown. Anyway the helium traffic
originated on the MP, Santa Fe, and Rock Island.
The Otis plant closed down in the mid 60's and I presume the
others followed soon after. The old Rock Island track to the storage
field in Amarillo is gone too. There are a number of private helium
plants that refine and liquify the helium and ship it out in trucks.

Perry Scheuerman

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:


My question is where were they coming FROM, and where were they
heading TO? I'm assuming that they originated on the SP, but how did
they get to Peoria from there? And I've read that there was (is?) a
large deposit of naturally-occuring helium in the natural gas fields
in central Indiana, but where were those fields specifically in the
1940s/1950s?


Re: New HO 1944 "short rib" CMStP&P ribside boxcars.

Michael Aufderheide
 

Brian and all,

A visit to the Ribsides website today shows that they are coming out
soon with what looks to be the same car as Intermountain. See:

http://ribsidecars.com/ribsidecars_002.htm

When it rains....

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

Doing a little more digging. if the photos on the IM website can be
trusted
these are the 1945, 1946 and 1947 built cars with 9 rung side
ladders and
4/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends. The ribeside car model has 5/5 ends
and 8
rung ladders
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Helium Car Kits and Decals

Ray Breyer
 

From: "Jay H. Miller"
I have completed several years of intensive research into the helium
car/plant/operations subject and will present my findings at the Santa
Fe Historical and Modeling Society in Oklahoma City June 21-24. After
that, it is my intention to actively promote the information I have
collected to someone who will produce kits of the 30-tube cars and
possibly a brass model of the original 3-tube cars. While I do not
have a 100% commitment from a maker, I do have some potential interest
and it "looks good." There are a number of engineering issues that
will require considerable thought before the pattern making process
begins.

This is great news! As someone who actually needs one or two of these cars, it's nice to see one of these "circus cars" actually coming out as a higher-end kit. I thought that I would be forced to swapmeet dive for a couple of the old AHM cars and try to redetail them into a semblance of proto correctness.

While we're on the topic, I do have a question about the operations of these cars in the Midwest. I've got two photos and a bad order report concerning these cars that prove that they were a regular sight on the Nickel Plate's Peoria Division heading east (I've yet to find evidence of a backhaul to the west).

My question is where were they coming FROM, and where were they heading TO? I'm assuming that they originated on the SP, but how did they get to Peoria from there? And I've read that there was (is?) a large deposit of naturally-occuring helium in the natural gas fields in central Indiana, but where were those fields specifically in the 1940s/1950s?

On my layout they'll just be added as colorful run through traffic, as I'm modeling the middle of the division. But any Nickel Plate modeler who's modeling Frankfort will want to know where these cars are heading to.

Thanks,

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, 1949


---------------------------------
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with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.


Re: New HO 1944 "short rib" CMStP&P ribside boxcars.

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Doing a little more digging. if the photos on the IM website can be trusted
these are the 1945, 1946 and 1947 built cars with 9 rung side ladders and
4/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends. The ribeside car model has 5/5 ends and 8
rung ladders
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: New HO 1944 "short rib" CMStP&P ribside boxcars.

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Way back in Feb.: Tim O'C comments-

Denny I think this is the same car that Intermountain is doing.
There was a model on display at the IRC booth at Springfield.
to which Dr. Anspach replied My understanding is that IM is doing a slightly
different version,
but which one I do not know. It is not listed on their web page and
they are holding their cards close to their vests. I will bet that
the intermediate ribs will be included, however. I will also bet that
once produced it will be only available assembled.

Now that the IM car is shown on their website, can anyone confirm if this is
the same as the Ribeside car shops car. I can't really tell from the pic on
the IM site.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


George Elwood's son

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Many of us make use of George Elwood's Fallen Flags site. The following announcement is copied from
his main page.

COMMENT
My 26 year old son died Friday 8 Jun in the ICU of a Chicago hospital
after a long battle from the effects of cancer treatment he received 9
years ago. I was present at his death as was his brother and an uncle.
It was peaceful and I have to believe that he was greeted by his
grandparents.
He will be buried in Dayton OH on Wednesday. Viewing Tuesday night at
Tobias in Beavercreek OH.
Because of this, I will not be posting material daily. Your prayers
were/are appreciated!


I think those of us who rely on this resource should respond appropriately.



SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!

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