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Re: sewer pipes

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

CJ:

One clay pipe manufacturer is Gladding McBean in Lincoln, California. They make some hunking big pipe sections of some sort from clay which is mined very close to the plant. Curiously, there doesn't seem to be, or to have ever been, a rail connection from the SP's Shasta Line into the plant. I've been past it many times since the late 1950s, and can't remember even bumping over disconnected rails in the pavement. Maybe it was so many, many years ago.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

cj riley wrote:

clay pipe (and tile) were typically made where brick was a common product,
sometimes by the same plant. these days, I'm sure consolodation has eliminated
most of the plants.

CJ Riley

____________________________________________________________________________________


Re: sewer pipes

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

--- ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com> wrote:

Where were clay sewer pipes made?
clay pipe (and tile) were typically made where brick was a common product,
sometimes by the same plant. these days, I'm sure consolodation has eliminated
most of the plants.

CJ Riley



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Re: sewer pipes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Mines wrote:
I've heard that cast iron pipes were shipped in P&LE and PYMcY (Al
Westerfield calls this RR P mickey)gons. How about PRR gons?
Incidentally, Ed, the actual initials are PMcKY--Pittsburgh, McKeesport and Youghiogheny--which maybe is closed to the "pronounced" version of the initials.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


blue flags

Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...>
 

Don't remember if anyone pointed out this photo of Delano's in the
Shorpy site after the discussion about blue flags being used in the
freight houses. Great photo. If the link does not work the photo is
called "Pabst Over Chicago: 1943".


http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/1a34786u.jpg


Eric Mumper


Re: sewer pipes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Mines wrote:
I've heard that cast iron pipes were shipped in P&LE and PYMcY (Al Westerfield calls this RR P mickey)gons. How about PRR gons?
Rails in the Pittsburgh area always called it the "Pee Mickey" when I lived there.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


sewer pipes

ed_mines
 

I think any kind of merchandise light enough to be lifted by a man
would be prone to be stolen if shipped in a gondola.

I think any kind of sewer pipe would have a relatively thick wall
making lengths of the larger sizes (say 10 or 12 inches in diameter and
above) pretty difficult for a man to lift, particularly over the side
of a typical gon.

I've heard that cast iron pipes were shipped in P&LE and PYMcY (Al
Westerfield calls this RR P mickey)gons. How about PRR gons?

Where were clay sewer pipes made?

Did these pipes have to be blocked? I would think that cast iron pipes
would be robust enough to avoid damage without blocking.

A few years ago the neighborhood when I live had new storm sewers
installed. A man can crawl through the concrete sewer pipes. I live
above the east extension of the Grand Coulie damn.

Ed


C&NW Stock Cars

ed_mines
 

Those CNW stock cars are my favorites. Thanks Bob!

These stock cars frequently appear in Jack Delano photos in the
WWII "Iron Horse at War" book.

The end of these cars is missing a slat, making them look unusual to
me.

Does anyone know what type of roof these cars had? There's a photo
article about stock yard at the CNW site which shows what I think is
an early Hutcheons roof with 2 reinforcement creases instead on the
usual one. Was this the type used on these stock cars?

The aforementioned roof was used on CNW's single sheathed box cars
built in the '20s with USRA ribs but shorter than USRA cars. Sunshine
offers (or offered) a kit for those cars.

Ed

Here's the original link -

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Chaparro" <thecitrusbelt@...>
wrote:
Courtesy of Ron Christensen, here is a link to images of C&NW stock
cars originally posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Group:

http://www.cnwhs.org/articles/1183073558.pdf


Re: sewer pipes

Jim Betz
 

In the early 50's in my home town (a small town North of Seattle) my
neighborhood was upgraded to city sewers. Before that all the houses in
the neighborhood were on septic tanks. Large (3 ft?) concrete pipe came
into town in gons and was transferred to trucks for local transit. In
addition, each house was connected up to the new sewer running down the
street using smaller pipe that was probably about 8" in diameter or so.
I'm guessing that the size of the pipe was related to the mains also acting
as part of the storm drain system - we are talking Western Washington
here.
The crews putting in the mains finally had to take to pushing a dozer
blade load of dirt over the open end of the pipe each day to keep the
kids (like me) from playing in the new pipes after they knocked off for
the day. Then every morning they would uncover that end and go after it
some more.
I remember that they would do one or two blocks a day - but I could be
wrong on that. This was a big project that converted a lot of houses
from septic to sewer. There was an assessment to each house on the
street and I remember my folks grumbling about being required to pay the
assessment whether they connected up or not. But it was all done over
time and the connection to the house was cheap enough and it did make
things in the neighborhood better.


D&H decals

Thomas Baker
 

I followed Ted Culotta's explanation of creating a D&H rebuilt USRA box car with a Viking roof. This is one project that can be undertaken in S-scale as well as in HO since both the car and roof as a separate part have been available. The project is nearing completion, but I need a source of decals for this car. In times past I have cobbled parts from HO and O decals. I do, in fact, have the Champ D&H road name set with the correct "one hundred years of anthracite service" circular emblem. If someone out there knows where I might obtain an old Walther's O-gauge decal for a D&H box car, I might be able to pull the decaling job off. And maybe someone has a method or source I know nothing about. Any ideas?

Tom


Re: CN Series #659000-65999 Steel Flat Car #659000-65999

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Paul,
The unmodified Tichy stake pockets are indeed not correct for this
model. However with a little effort they can be altered to present an
acceptable representation of the prototype.
The following instructions have been copied from an article by
Stafford Swain in CN Lines, V5,N4, full credit should got to Stafford
and Alf Goodall. I've done this mode and it's pretty straight forward.

The prototype for the Tichy stake pockets are a stamped metal "U"
shape type which were held to the car side with three U-bolts. The
modifications consist of removing some of this U-bolt detail. The
Tichy Pockets are partially modified while still on the casting sprue.
First the outside face of the Tichy stake pockets should be filed
flat, removing all traces of the three U-bolt flanges. The Tichy stake
pockets also come with locating stubs on the bases which would be a
nuisance to deal with on scratchbuilt side sills. These are filed off
while the pockets are on the sprue.

After the partially modified, individual pockets are attached securely
to the correct side sill locations, the side faces should have the
upper and lower flanges removed. A sharp single edged razor blade
works well for this task. Leave only the one flange in the centre to
simulate the strengthening corrugation of the standard stake pocket
design.

Good luck with your flat car,
Pierre Oliver

Guys,

I hace one of Point 1 Models CN #659000-659999 resin flat car kits
that I am looking to start. I only have one poor quality photo of this
car, but the stake pockets sure do not look like the Tichy ones
provided in the kit. Can anyone either tell me what is the correct
stake pocket, or can someone share a good scan of this car so I can
make a more intelligent decision as to what is correct.

Any and all help is appreicated.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA?
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Re: sewer pipes

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

And don't forget Orangeburg. A sewar pipe made with tarpaper during or after
WWII.
http://www.sewerhistory.org/grfx/components/pipe-orng1.htm

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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10:56 AM


Re: sewer pipes

John F. Cizmar
 

Dennis,
F.Y.I. Lead and oakum is still used to connect cast iron bell & spigot (cast iron) soil pipe in the Chicago. We sell tons of ingot lead for this purpose every year.
John F. Cizmar
SG Supply Company
Calumet Park, Illinois

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, rrfaned@... wrote:

In a message dated 6/28/2007 2:53:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

Anyone familiar with clay sewer pipes in the '40s? How about cast iron
sewer pipes?

Clay was used for sanitary sewers. Cast iron pipe was typically
used for
transmission of water.
Except when used in buildings and other above grade (not buried)
applications. Clay pipe is just too fragile to use where it won't be
buried. Typical use in Chicago during the steam era was 4", 6", and 8"
C.I. pipe used for DWV (Drain, Waste, and Vent) within the building,
changing to similar sized clay where it went through the basement
floor or foundation wall. This was all "bell & spigot" pipe, the
straight end, the spigot, fit into the larger diameter bell and was
sealed with oakum and mortar for clay pipe; lead for C.I. In recent
years rubber gaskets have been developed for C.I. pipe and lead is not
used any longer.

What is lacking is information on the length of these pipes. I don't
ever remember seeing clay pipe any longer than 3', which made for a
lot of joints. C.I was available in 5' and 10' lengths, at least in
the smaller sizes. Large water service pipe was available in 20'
lengths, and maybe longer.

There was / is also a hubless clay pipe available in about 2' lengths
for use as drain tile; this was laid with the joints slightly open and
a layer of gravel for perimeter drains outside of foundations.

All these products were reasonably fragile, and would be palletized
after WWII, except for the largest sizes, which would be stacked on
blocking in gons.

Clay pipe was glazed and fired, and was a glossy medium brown or
reddish brown. Drain tile was not glazed, and was more or less the
color of flower pots. Cast iron was dipped in something at manufacture
that made it shiny black.

Dennis






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New Walthers Rolling Stock

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

In the August MODEL RAILROADER (Page 3) Walthers is advertising General
American meat reefers and Mather stock cars. Apparently, these are
previously issued cars with new road names and car numbers.

Are these cars prototypically accurate as to road names and car
numbers? Are the cars themselves reasonably accurate representations
of the prototypes?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Kaolinite and China

Greg Martin
 

In a message dated 6/27/2007 9:15:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
prrinvt@yahoo.com writes:

Guyz,

The PRR served the Homer Laughlin China and E M Knowles China Co in Newell
WV. They appear in the CT1000 for 1945

Fred Freitas


Dang it Fred I was out of town on business in the LA Basin and returned this
evening only to find you answered my question... Thanks Fred 3^)

GIZE, Next time you all are traveling and you have lunch at an old
diner/cafe and you see one of those old heavy white coffee mugs , check the bottom for
the label, chances are you might fine a good one like my cherished Sterling
China (or also a Hall China). If you do might get lucky and have a keeper...
They are fairly common. I have a set of a mug, creamer and tea pot (the Tea
pot and creamer I have came from a diner in Tehachapi, CA where I lived prior
to moving to Salem, OR) and talk the owner into selling it to you.

When I was a kid growing up the Men in most East Liverpool neighborhoods
would toss porcelain door knobs like cow-pokes pitch horse shoes only the
difference was the ringers were tossed into a tobacco/coffee cans, quite a skill
and fun to watch...

These types of items would be very commonly shipped by rail throughout the
country and in boxcars (mandatory freight car content) in barrels or crates...


Greg Martin



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


CN Series #659000-65999 Steel Flat Car #659000-65999

Paul Lyons
 

Guys,

I hace one of Point 1 Models CN #659000-659999 resin flat car kits that I am looking to start. I only have one poor quality photo of this car, but the stake pockets sure do not look like the Tichy ones provided in the kit. Can anyone either tell me what is the correct stake pocket, or can someone share a good scan of this car so I can make a more intelligent decision as to what is correct.

Any and all help is appreicated.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA?
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


C&NW Stock Car Images

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

Courtesy of Ron Christensen, here is a link to images of C&NW stock
cars originally posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Group:

http://www.cnwhs.org/articles/1183073558.pdf

Bob Chaparro
Moderator
Railway Bull Shippers Group


Re: sewer pipes

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, rrfaned@... wrote:

In a message dated 6/28/2007 2:53:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

Anyone familiar with clay sewer pipes in the '40s? How about cast iron
sewer pipes?

Clay was used for sanitary sewers. Cast iron pipe was typically
used for
transmission of water.
Except when used in buildings and other above grade (not buried)
applications. Clay pipe is just too fragile to use where it won't be
buried. Typical use in Chicago during the steam era was 4", 6", and 8"
C.I. pipe used for DWV (Drain, Waste, and Vent) within the building,
changing to similar sized clay where it went through the basement
floor or foundation wall. This was all "bell & spigot" pipe, the
straight end, the spigot, fit into the larger diameter bell and was
sealed with oakum and mortar for clay pipe; lead for C.I. In recent
years rubber gaskets have been developed for C.I. pipe and lead is not
used any longer.

What is lacking is information on the length of these pipes. I don't
ever remember seeing clay pipe any longer than 3', which made for a
lot of joints. C.I was available in 5' and 10' lengths, at least in
the smaller sizes. Large water service pipe was available in 20'
lengths, and maybe longer.

There was / is also a hubless clay pipe available in about 2' lengths
for use as drain tile; this was laid with the joints slightly open and
a layer of gravel for perimeter drains outside of foundations.

All these products were reasonably fragile, and would be palletized
after WWII, except for the largest sizes, which would be stacked on
blocking in gons.

Clay pipe was glazed and fired, and was a glossy medium brown or
reddish brown. Drain tile was not glazed, and was more or less the
color of flower pots. Cast iron was dipped in something at manufacture
that made it shiny black.

Dennis


Re: sewer pipes

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Train Shed Cyc No 36 (1919) includes loading diagrans for cast iron, wrought
iron and concrete pipes in flats and gons. I'm sure Ive seen clay pipes in both
gons and box cars.

CJ Riley

--- rrfaned@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/28/2007 2:53:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ed_mines@yahoo.com writes:

Anyone familiar with clay sewer pipes in the '40s? How about cast iron
sewer pipes?

Clay was used for sanitary sewers. Cast iron pipe was typically used for
transmission of water.



What were the most common sizes? Colors?
Clay pipe is typically reddish brown. Think earth tone because that's what
it is. Clay pipe comes in many sizes. 4, 6, 8,10, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 30
and 36 inch. However any size larger than 12 to 15 inches in diameter would

be fairly uncommon.
Cast iron pipe is usually black in color. It is/was available in the same
sizes as clay pipe. 8, 10 and 12 inch diameter pipe is quite common in
municipal water systems. Larger sizes, 24, 30 and 36 inch pipe, is found
more
frequently in water systems than in sanitary sewer collection systems.



Any reason why they couldn't be loaded into gons?

None that I can think of. Clay pipe was typically cast in 4 or 5 foot
lengths while cast iron pipe was cast in 10 foot or greater lengths.



Ed


Ed Dabler, P.E.



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Re: sewer pipes

Raymond Young
 

Hello,

During the '40s to about 1965, there was a petroleum-based sewer pipe called Orangeburg. It was cheaper than cast iron, but it was a poor substitute. It lacked the rigidity and strength of cast iron. It sagged, allowed tree roots to enter the joints easily and seemed to be the material of choice for most contractors. Most building codes have outlawed its use in tha last 40 years. It was about 6 inches in diameter and had a rusty tan color. I'm sure it was shipped in gons and on flats. Rejoice that it's gone.

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX

Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

On Jun 28, 2007, at 2:52 PM, ed_mines wrote:

Anyone familiar with clay sewer pipes in the '40s? How about cast iron
sewer pipes?

What were the most common sizes? Colors?
How about octagonal wooden pipes? A WWII war emergency program built
wooden pipe in a wide variety of sizes.
Steel pipe - thousands of gon loads of 24" and 20" pipe went into the
building of the "big inch" and "little inch" pipelines in 1942-43.

Any reason why they couldn't be loaded into gons?
None, of course.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
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Re: sewer pipes

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 28, 2007, at 2:52 PM, ed_mines wrote:

Anyone familiar with clay sewer pipes in the '40s? How about cast iron
sewer pipes?

What were the most common sizes? Colors?
How about octagonal wooden pipes? A WWII war emergency program built wooden pipe in a wide variety of sizes.
Steel pipe - thousands of gon loads of 24" and 20" pipe went into the building of the "big inch" and "little inch" pipelines in 1942-43.

Any reason why they couldn't be loaded into gons?
None, of course.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

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