Date   

Re: FGEX wood reefers from Accurail kits?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Pieter Roos wrote:
The list of resources available for FEGX cars includes . . .
It appears that a model of the FEGX cars would not be all that hard to build, and the information is pretty readily available to build a creditable fleet. If you get the first four items on the list you should be in good shape for modifying the Accurail cars for under $35.00.
Thanks for setting the record straight, Pieter. Not everyone who complains knows as much as they ought to.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: pic from rrpicturearchives

Ljack70117@...
 

On my Mac I can do a article and then tell it to print. When the print program comes up There is a save to PDF option and if I save to PDF then I can take the PDF and email it where ever I wish. PDF are no big thing on a MAC.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@comcast.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Jul 17, 2007, at 10:51 AM, mike turner wrote:

Tim,

These programs allow creation and viewing .pdf files without Adobe's
help. Printing from a word processor, spreadsheet, or other program to a
.pdf does work. I have not tried converting a scanned image, yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDFCreator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostscript

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC

Tim O'Connor wrote:
George R. Stilwell, Jr. writes:

"This is the 21st century. Who goes to Kinkos and pays their prices when you
can scan the handout to a PDF file and distribute it via E-mail for free."

scan to a PDF for free? i've had 6 PC's over the years and
not one of them can CREATE a PDF file -- only the Adobe reader
is freeware, not the writer software. But I'm sure if you'll
send Bill $449 for the Adobe software, plus a flatbed scanner,
and a stack of CD's and mailing sleeves, then he'll make you
a free copy.

Tim O'Connor





Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: pic from rrpicturearchives

mike turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

Tim,

These programs allow creation and viewing .pdf files without Adobe's
help. Printing from a word processor, spreadsheet, or other program to a
.pdf does work. I have not tried converting a scanned image, yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDFCreator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostscript

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC

Tim O'Connor wrote:

George R. Stilwell, Jr. writes:

"This is the 21st century. Who goes to Kinkos and pays their prices when you
can scan the handout to a PDF file and distribute it via E-mail for free."

scan to a PDF for free? i've had 6 PC's over the years and
not one of them can CREATE a PDF file -- only the Adobe reader
is freeware, not the writer software. But I'm sure if you'll
send Bill $449 for the Adobe software, plus a flatbed scanner,
and a stack of CD's and mailing sleeves, then he'll make you
a free copy.

Tim O'Connor



Re: Caboose truck help needed

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I should have realized I couldn't attach a photo to a posting. I've added an
album to the "Photos" section of the group's Yahoo page. Look for "ATSF way
car (caboose)" if you're interested, but allow some time for the photos to
be vetted. -- Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: pic from rrpicturearchives

Tim O'Connor
 

George R. Stilwell, Jr. writes:

"This is the 21st century. Who goes to Kinkos and pays their prices when you
can scan the handout to a PDF file and distribute it via E-mail for free."

scan to a PDF for free? i've had 6 PC's over the years and
not one of them can CREATE a PDF file -- only the Adobe reader
is freeware, not the writer software. But I'm sure if you'll
send Bill $449 for the Adobe software, plus a flatbed scanner,
and a stack of CD's and mailing sleeves, then he'll make you
a free copy.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Caboose truck help needed

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Mark,

I don't claim to be a truck expert either, but the truck in your photo at
least resembles the Barber-Bettendorf swing motion caboose truck. In HO,
Athearn and Atlas both have roller-bearing versions of the Barber-Bettendorf
truck, and Atlas also makes a solid-bearing version. I'm using the Atlas
solid-bearing trucks (no. 191000) under Athearn cabooses modified to
represent the railroad-built (in 1942) AT&SF 2001-series way cars. It's a
nice truck, especially with the addition of Reboxx narrow-tread wheelsets
and Kadee no. 441 brake beams. These are the trucks under the caboose in the
attached photo; unfortunately, I don't have a closeup view of the truck.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: pic from rrpicturearchives

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

George R. Stilwell, Jr. writes:

"This is the 21st century. Who goes to Kinkos and pays their prices when you
can scan the handout to a PDF file and distribute it via E-mail for free."

Ever tried to distribute a handout during a clinic via Email? The point of all this is that Bill generated a very extensive clinic handout. Scan a 54 pg handout? Okaaay. Not me though...I have other things to do.

"The recipient can print it if desired or just read it on their computer.
So, it's not about money, it's about the willingness to share."

I would disagree. It's about having time.

Mike Brock


Re: pic from rrpicturearchives

George R. Stilwell, Jr. <GRSJr@...>
 

"Bill is a generous person, though you
clearly don't know that. And it sure ain't about money. Go to your
local Kinkos or other copy shop with a 54-page document and see what it
costs to copy it, before you complain about Bill's $3 charge."
This is the 21st century. Who goes to Kinkos and pays their prices when you
can scan the handout to a PDF file and distribute it via E-mail for free.
The recipient can print it if desired or just read it on their computer.
So, it's not about money, it's about the willingness to share. One could
argue the cost of scanning, but many HP printers scan for free. If Bill
wants, I'll scan the handout for him and send him the PDF file.
Ray


Re: FGEX wood reefers from Accurail kits?

Pieter Roos
 

Hi Don;

The list of resources available for FEGX cars includes:

B&O Modeler article that started the thread - free!

Article with drawing in Jan 1988 Mainline Modeler. - $2.50 plus S&H
from the publisher. While I said I don't know if it is accurate, it
appears the drawing was developed from measuring an actual car.
Numerous detail photos of the somewhat derelict car are included,
along with two roster shots of unrelated FEGX cars. The drawing is of
the 8 inch sill version, called Type 2 in Bill's RMJ article but I
gather now changed to Type 4 according to Greg?

Trainshed Cyclopedia #3, Box Stock and Reefer Cars from the 1931 CBC
includes a drawing of the same 8" side sill car as built with a wood
roof. Available from the publisher for $15.95.

RMJ article by Bill Welch cited earlier - numerous photos of FEGX and
WFE cars along with short history of the companies and commentary on
the development of the designs. This issues appears to be available
from the publisher for $6.95 plus S+H

Fruit Growers Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express/Western Fruit
Express Wartime Reefers (1942-1946), RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA
Volume Twelve available from the publisher for $24.95.

The Burlington Refrigerator Express Company's Signature Wood Sheathed
Reefers, Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 1.

Truss Rod Refrigerator Cars of the Fruit Growers Express/Western Fruit
Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express Consortium, Part One: The
Prototypes, Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. Both available from the
publisher.

In addition to the Accurail car, Sunshine has several resin FEGX/WFE
cars listed as still available according to the list in the group files.

It appears that a model of the FEGX cars would not be all that hard to
build, and the information is pretty readily available to build a
creditable fleet. If you get the first four items on the list you
should be in good shape for modifying the Accurail cars for under $35.00.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Don Worthy <don_worthy@...> wrote:
<SNIP>
But WOW, I can't get over so many years have gone by and we here
in the South still can't model or don't have the right to model the
one brand of reefer used so heavily here in the South or Eastern
states. I mean...can't even find out the measurements for a car.

Anyway, I won't ask about it any more and I sure wish that I could
attend one of those big meets.
I would like to invite any one on this list or person of knowledge
to come to our "Middle Georgia Railroad Association" club meetings. We
meet every 3rd Monday of the month at the "restored" Central of
Georgia depot in Gordon, Ga.
WE would LOVE to have ya'll. We'll feed you and show you some good
old (now NS) railroading.
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.


Re: CPR Fowler box car end bracing:

jim peters
 

Good morning,

The information sheet from the Westerfield kits is most likely the best summary you will find. Also check Ian's site http://freightcars.nikina.net

I was unaware of any changes were ever made to the side framing.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC



From: Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] CPR Fowler box car end bracing:
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:11:45 -0700

I am in the midst of modifying a few Canadian Hobbycraft fowler boxcars and
was considering modifying then ends which presently have two "Z" section
vertical braces.

As I understand it, while two was common enough, some cars had three and
others four. I am wondering if there is an article or other reference out
there I have somehow missed that attempts to sort out what number series
were which. (Yes, I know the number series present their own issues as many
of the cars were renumbered after construction. I model 1946 - if that
helps). Alternately, perhaps there is a source that notes which of the many
manufacturers, if any, used the various end bracing patterns. (The extra
ribs may all have been rebuilds as the cars aged.)

By the way, it strikes me that these models should be re-run by the
manufacturer - but with a modification from the earlier production. Instead
of using the equal spaced side bracing the original run received, they ought
to use the more correct unequally spaced bracing used on the stock car
models..... A new floor - similar in quality to that used by True Line
Trains on their recent CNR 1937 AAR cars would also be a welcome
improvement.....

Thanks in advance,

Rob Kirkham
who is starting to give up waiting for NERS
_________________________________________________________________
Tell us your tech love story in the Summer Lovin Competition for your chance to win laptop loaded with Windows Vista, Office 2007 and Windows Live OneCare. http://www.microsoft.com/canada/home/contests/summerlovin/default.aspx


Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Aha!! Check out page 1109 of the 1953 Car Builder's Cyclopedia. I thought it might be an export car -- for Mexico! (The one in the photo is 3100cft, with 1 extra rib, but it's basically the same car.)
Excellent catch, Tim. The Cyc photo is fairly small, but the car sure looks identical in all regards, including dimensions. Wonder how SP got ahold of these Mexican grain cars--could have been a broker in the middle--and we know SP was short of covered hoppers in that period. And the company shown as buying the cars fits exactly with the Magor builder list.
Now to trace the Compania Exportadora e Importadora Mexicana, SA, in the Registers <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
All I can think is that a 10-hatch, 40 foot covered hopper built in 1952 would look a lot like a clone of a PS-2 2893cft. But 1952 is a bit early for a PS-2 I think...
Plus this car is all riveted. I still think the car MIGHT have been a regular hopper originally, though that would mean completely new outlets.

I have an ACF builder photo of SSW 76053, built 12-51, and it has 10 square hatches... but it has less than 3000cft (looks like 2745, kinda blurry). I have photos of nearly identical ACF cars
built for T&P, and Anhauser Busch. And M-I in 1948 too (2828 cft).
I have a nice, sharp company view of SSW 76035, built 12-51, and it has welded square-section ribs except for the bolster ribs, which are T-sections. It has 10 square hatches, all right, and 12 side ribs; capacity is 2765 cubic feet. The SP Class H-50-10 we are discussing has 10 ribs, eight along the body which are angles, with channel ribs at the bolsters, and as I said, all riveted, and has an outside hatch locking rod and 3050 cubic feet. Not a lot like the Cotton Belt car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


CPR Fowler box car end bracing:

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I am in the midst of modifying a few Canadian Hobbycraft fowler boxcars and was considering modifying then ends which presently have two "Z" section vertical braces.

As I understand it, while two was common enough, some cars had three and others four. I am wondering if there is an article or other reference out there I have somehow missed that attempts to sort out what number series were which. (Yes, I know the number series present their own issues as many of the cars were renumbered after construction. I model 1946 - if that helps). Alternately, perhaps there is a source that notes which of the many manufacturers, if any, used the various end bracing patterns. (The extra ribs may all have been rebuilds as the cars aged.)

By the way, it strikes me that these models should be re-run by the manufacturer - but with a modification from the earlier production. Instead of using the equal spaced side bracing the original run received, they ought to use the more correct unequally spaced bracing used on the stock car models..... A new floor - similar in quality to that used by True Line Trains on their recent CNR 1937 AAR cars would also be a welcome improvement.....

Thanks in advance,

Rob Kirkham
who is starting to give up waiting for NERS


Re: Caboose truck help needed

Mark Mathu
 

Jim Betz wrote:

Most, if not all, International all-steel cabooses had Bettendorf
swing-motion trucks. This includes the standard cupola, extended
vision, and wide-vision models such as those used on the GN, NP,
etc.
Once the swing-motion truck came out (year?) it was a clear winner
and a lot of cabooses ordered after that date were ordered with
those trucks.

Hi, maybe you can help me (and potentially help the caboose truck list
in the process, too)...

As I understand it, GBW's modest fleet of three ICC cabooses
(#615-617, built 1965-66) had swing motion trucks -- but specifically
Dahlman swing motion trucks, not Bettendorf. I'm no expert on truck
types... can someone confirm that the trucks are Dahlman? If not,
what type are they?

Here is an image of a truck under GBW #615 in 1980:
http://www.greenbayroute.com/gbw615truck.jpg
(that's the generator attached to the right axle)

__________
Mark Mathu
Whitefish Bay, Wis.
The Green Bay Route: http://www.greenbayroute.com/


Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Aha!! Check out page 1109 of the 1953 Car Builder's Cyclopedia.
I thought it might be an export car -- for Mexico! (The one in
the photo is 3100cft, with 1 extra rib, but it's basically the
same car.)

Tim O'Connor


Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Lee Gautreaux
 

Tim,

These were the numbers re-used for rebuilt 70 ton, two bay cov'd
hoppers in the 1970's. The cars Tony is interrested in (SP 402300-
402312) were off the roster by then.

Lee G.


Tony

Strangely, I have notes on these cars, 402298-402322, including
that they have 10 hatches. But I have no idea why I have that note
and I can't recall seeing a picture of one. I have all emails since
1996 indexed and I still can't figure out where I got this data...

Tim O'Connor


Re: FGEX wood reefers from Accurail kits?

Don Worthy
 

Hi Greg, yes I'm in HO and the time frame is late 49 to 1953. The Central of Georgia did away with their steam during the summer of 53. That's a sad year for we Central steam guys. I'd bought several Accurail cars along time back thinking that it was closer to certain FGEX cars than they turn out to be. Anyway, I really need to have FGEX cars for my middle Georgia area than any other reefer. Unfortunately, every thing from the ART cars to all PFE stuff can be built or is built in kit, RTR or resin.

I guess that's what had me so "bent out of shape" for many years. I could find information for the bulk of PFE and others but, when I'd ask about Fruit Growers...........man, it has been like I was trying to get information about printing US money.......I've known that the men that could find information needed and deserved to make their expenses back. OR if they gathered the info and had a book printed.........yes, they deserve to make a profit..

But WOW, I can't get over so many years have gone by and we here in the South still can't model or don't have the right to model the one brand of reefer used so heavily here in the South or Eastern states. I mean...can't even find out the measurements for a car.

Anyway, I won't ask about it any more and I sure wish that I could attend one of those big meets.
I would like to invite any one on this list or person of knowledge to come to our "Middle Georgia Railroad Association" club meetings. We meet every 3rd Monday of the month at the "restored" Central of Georgia depot in Gordon, Ga.
WE would LOVE to have ya'll. We'll feed you and show you some good old (now NS) railroading.
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.





egmrtn@aol.com wrote:

Don,

I held this message from Saturday over to respnd. I to am working stiff as I think many on this list are. Unfortunately I don't have an extra Kahns car left to send you but I can send you as well as a few others on the list a complete set of information regarding the Kahn's car on CD when I get a minute from my work-a-day world. Do you model in HO Scale? If so this a good starting point for the car regardless if it were FGEX/WFEX/NX cars.

I think to say that information sharing is difficult, I would answer that it is not the case on this and many other lists I belong to. I will not beat this issue to death. I just want modelers to model again... and it seem the ACCURAIL cars are a good starting point to build a fleet of Wood Sheathed car and I can tell you that many modelers on this list?were in my clinic (including Tony) and I feel that everyone had a good time and learned something, albeit it not in competetion with Bill's generous clinic on these very cars the same day. Thanks to the great scheduling of Jeff Alley you could take in Bill's clinic then go to my clinic and translate what you learned into a scale replica. And Denny took the time to help those that were there learn how to best install the ACCURAIL PROTO couple with his hand out as well as data regarding Kahn's provided by John Greedy.

So if you can, we would love to see/meet you there, for at least you could drive down and you don't have to go through the strip searches as I do (I am on some sort of list or at least someone that has the same name as I) and enjoy the offering. We will be doing another "Shake and Take" car in 2008.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Worthy <don_worthy@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 9:08 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGEX wood reefers from Accurail kits?

No Greg, I'm not one of the "VERY" fortunate people in this hobby. If I were able to fly to different states and take in railroad shows, I would not be asking for the information. I would have been there and got it myself. I, also, would have brought what ever information gained at a meeting home to my fellow railroaders that weren't lucky enough to have gone to the meeting.
The RPM meeting in Savannah, Ga. is the only meeting that I've been able to attend on a reguler bases. I, always, pass on any information that I pick up to my club members or any one else that's a railroad modeler or fan.
I am totally against information hogging.
That maybe because I love the thought of preserving railroad knowledge and it's history for everyone and not the almighty dollar.
The ONLY time I've ever thought of money has been "in my time" when I've done work for others.
I am one of the many "blue collar" workers in the hobby that doesn't have the extra money or time to go flying off with or with out the family to a meeting.

Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga. (where the economy IS NOT GOOD...........despite what BUSH says)

tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote:

Don writes:

"Hello Ben
Could I ask if someone has that handout if "I could buy a copy of their
handout". Really, if someone knows how to get a hold of something with the
measurements of some of th e FGEX cars, I'd pay for that.
I've got a good many photos of these cars being loaded and each car "looks"
the same height but the doors look shorter on some. I can't tell if that is a
trait of the truss-rod cars vs the steel frame cars are not. I've noticed
that some also "seem" to have a facia board and some do not.
What makes my photos "ask" more questions than "answers" is that the shots
aren't OF the cars themselfs. The photos are of the men and produce that's
being loaded. (Hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say)??
No one shot has helped me really pick out enough information to feel
comfortable in starting a string of the cars that I'd like to have.

I need so help from someone.....I need
Thanks to everyone
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga."

Don,

Were you per chance at the Cocoa Beach Prototype Rails 2007? Bill did his
seminar at least twice I believe. The handout will help you understand the
progression of the cars and how the cars came to the companies. Again a must have
but no drawing no photos, that come with the seminar.

Greg Martin

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Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

All I can think is that a 10-hatch, 40 foot covered hopper
built in 1952 would look a lot like a clone of a PS-2 2893cft.
But 1952 is a bit early for a PS-2 I think...

I have an ACF builder photo of SSW 76053, built 12-51, and it
has 10 square hatches... but it has less than 3000cft (looks like
2745, kinda blurry). I have photos of nearly identical ACF cars
built for T&P, and Anhauser Busch. And M-I in 1948 too (2828 cft).

Tim O

At 7/16/2007 10:01 PM Monday, you wrote:
Ed Hawkins wrote:
When did SP get these cars? I checked the 1/59 ORER (my closest to
1960) and they're not listed. They also aren't in the 7/62 ORER. The
numbers jump from 402297 to 403000. All of the covered hopper cars
built by Magor in 1952 were carbon black cars. Could it be one of
these?
Good questions, Ed. The cars were built in 1952, thus within the
range of this list, but were acquired by SP in the summer of 1963,
after this list. No, all the covered hoppers built by Magor in 1952
were NOT carbon black cars; they built 25 cars for GACX (leased to
Phillips), Lot W-2408, but those are somewhat different dimensionally,
and weren't identified by Magor as carbon black cars.

Tony Thompson


Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Tony Thompson
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
When did SP get these cars? I checked the 1/59 ORER (my closest to 1960) and they're not listed. They also aren't in the 7/62 ORER. The numbers jump from 402297 to 403000. All of the covered hopper cars built by Magor in 1952 were carbon black cars. Could it be one of these?
Good questions, Ed. The cars were built in 1952, thus within the range of this list, but were acquired by SP in the summer of 1963, after this list. No, all the covered hoppers built by Magor in 1952 were NOT carbon black cars; they built 25 cars for GACX (leased to Phillips), Lot W-2408, but those are somewhat different dimensionally, and weren't identified by Magor as carbon black cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Strangely, I have notes on these cars, 402298-402322, including
that they have 10 hatches. But I have no idea why I have that note
and I can't recall seeing a picture of one. I have all emails since
1996 indexed and I still can't figure out where I got this data...

Tim O'Connor

At 7/16/2007 09:36 PM Monday, you wrote:
Lee Gautreaux wrote:
I've been wondering about these cars for a long time as well. I hope
you can unravel the mystery before the SP Hopper/Tank book goes to
press.
This is, of course, the goal <g>.

What color are they and did they feature similar lettering as SP cov'd
hoppers of the time?
They are black, and have the usual SP covered hopper lettering
in white.

Do they have the sampling spigots as carbon black cars do? Could they
have been rebuilt from carbon black cars? Magor built some in the
early days of carbon black transportation.
I had this thought too, as that was practically all the covered
hoppers in Magor's output in those days. But all those carbon black
cars are 45 feet or 46 feet long inside. It sure would seem odd to cut
five feet out of a carbon black car (and almost a foot out of the
height), just to make a 3050-cubic foot car. And no, no sample spigots.
They have what look like conventional covered hopper round roof
hatches, five on each side of the car.

Tony Thompson

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