Date   

Re: Tank Car Line Names

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 21, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Standard Oil (Esso) also used LGX reporting marks in the Northeast.
I have a scan of a 1945 ACF LPG tank lettered "Essotane Cooking Gas"
I have a 1950's shot of a Warren tank car in Maine but I don't know
if that could have happened in 1940.
Yes, but those were ICC-105s for LPG service; they were not (and could
not have been) used to haul diesel fuel or heating oil.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: WEX: Is it real... or is it Red Ball?

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

Hauling cable reels or telephone poles would not be ordinary
activities expected of wholly-owned equipment manufacturer Western
Electric, while it might well be expected of parent AT&T.

However, as pointed out, Western Electric was already in the
railroad business with its well established Manufacturer's
Junction Railway in Cicero/Chicago.

Could it be that for internal simplicity and convenience, AT&T
would simply assign all of its own cars to Western Electric
reporting marks so that all were under a single roof?
Most likely. Those of us in the Bell Labs research area weren't
subjected to the full Bell System corporate brainw ^H^H^H^H^H^H
philosophy and history seminars. But my recollection is that Western
Electric, in addition to its manufacturing role, was also AT&T's
property manager. AT&T and Western Electric each owned 50% of Bell
Labs, but Western Electric owned the buildings and was our landlord.
It makes sense that any Bell System railroad equipment would have
also been owned by Western Electric.

In the glory days of Ma Bell (pre-1969), the focus was on universal
service. Part of that was being able to respond to massive service
outages in an almost heroic fashion. This required that large
amounts of materiel be shipped and stored at depots all over the
country. The further back in time you go, the less likely it is that
highway transport would have been the best and most reliable way to
accomplish that. I am reluctant to draw any conclusions about whose
rail equipment would have been used, but having some company-owned
rolling stock, especially back in the 1920's when so much of the
infrastructure was up on poles and vulnerable to severe weather,
seems justifiable.

Tom Madden


Re: Sanding Sealer

Justin Kahn
 

Dear Ed
Nearly thirty years ago, when I first changed over to O scale and had both larger surfaces to deal with and a greater impetus for better-detail, I tried shellac. It took several years for it to really dry. Never again. The Deft (e.g., "lacquer-based sealer") dries in less than an hour.
JGGK

--- In STMFC@..., "Justin Kahn" <harumd@...> wrote:
As to sealing wood cars, I kept hearing about "lacquer-based sanding
sealer" without anyone suggesting a source
I used to use Scalecoat which worked just fine. It has some kind of
particles in it besides the lacquer. I think it was recommended on
Q'Craft instruction sheets.

I've also seen shellac recommended to seal wood.

Being frugal and having access to chemicals (and being a seat of the
pants chemist) I dissolved Ambroid cement in MEK and used that.

Wood really sucks up both formaulations by capillary action.

Ed


_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com


Re: NMRA convention

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Tim,

GPS for my power? If I can't find my train, then it's time to stop using the layout. My question now is >> does this have interference from the garage opener, portable phones, or CB radio transmissions? The more "stuff" we incorporate, the more we will need 'B' units with everything. Somehow, a GPS unit in a mountain pulling a perishable consist just feels like too much of a stretch. Think I will let the modelers who use GE evolution power deal with this new "hobby advancement". I'll stick with the fishbelly underframes, 5-5-5 ends, and wood sides with roof top brake wheels! What's next, the "talking" caboose repeating the train orders?

Fred Freitas

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Greg,

He said transmitters and ceiling mounted receivers -- that
sounds wireless to me. But it sounds completely impractical.
Where are you going to put a transmitter in a switcher that
is already jammed full of stuff? Or is the transmitter part
of the DCC decoder?

An advantage of track-based systems is they are prototypical,
in that any wheelset can be detected, not just motorized stuff.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/20/2007 06:01 PM Friday, you wrote:

Is this system going to transmit the decoder signals via the track or a wireless application. DCC and signals aren't the best combination because nickle silver and oxygen=oxidation and the spells T_R_O_U_B_L_E for transmisssion of signals.
Greg Martin


Re: Tank Car Line Names

Tim O'Connor
 

Standard Oil (Esso) also used LGX reporting marks in the Northeast.
I have a scan of a 1945 ACF LPG tank lettered "Essotane Cooking Gas"
I have a 1950's shot of a Warren tank car in Maine but I don't know
if that could have happened in 1940.

Check the 1940 ORERs and you will not find any Maine-based tank car
operators that would have shipped diesel fuel or heating oil - or even
New England-based operators, for that matter. Such commodities were
shipped either in tank cars owned by the large petroleum companies (in
the northeast, Texaco, Eastern Shell [SEPX], Cities Service [EORX],
Gulf, Mexican Petroleum [Amoco, MPLX], Sinclair, etc.) or the big car
leasing companies, primarily Union Tank Line (which served all of the
Standard Oil spin-offs as well as some smaller petroleum producers) and
General American. Simply on the basis of car ownership, UTLX and GATX
cars would be the most likely to turn up in such service.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: WEX: Is it real... or is it Red Ball?

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

This Red Ball Western Electric flat car kit K-51 with cable reels is listed by Howell Day as being "1920" which may explain to some degree its absence from the usual ORERs.

Hauling cable reels or telephone poles would not be ordinary activities expected of wholly-owned equipment manufacturer Western Electric, while it might well be expected of parent AT&T.

However, as pointed out, Western Electric was already in the railroad business with its well established Manufacturer's Junction Railway in Cicero/Chicago.

Could it be that for internal simplicity and convenience, AT&T would simply assign all of its own cars to Western Electric reporting marks so that all were under a single roof?

Note that although Richard Brennan's kit has the usual and expected typical Red Ball mixture of cast metal and wood parts, Howell Day's undated #10 catalog describes the same flat car as being "plastic"!

M. Dale Newton apparently was a pretty reliable supplier of accurately-researched and lettered models, and I have no knowledge that worthy Red Ball successor Howell Day was any different. I have never read about, nor learned otherwise how Newton actually did his research.

Denny




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Tank Car Line Names

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 21, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Norm wrote:

I'm currently building a 3'x4' diorama of a mythical but quite plausible Maine coastal seaport set in 1940 where a narrow gauge
line from the interior intersected with the standard gauge main line running along the coast. While the standard gauge line will
undoubtedly be (almost all) real, I have some leeway in choosing road/owner names for various freight cars. I have my own
favorite names for boxcars, gondolas, flats, hoppers, and reefers, but I'd really like to find a good (hopefully local) line to
own the tank cars in the freight consist. My preference is for having one delivering diesel fuel for ships and another with
heating oil for buildings.

With this as background, my question to the group is, Where can I go to find the names of tank car owners circa 1940 in coastal
Maine?
Check the 1940 ORERs and you will not find any Maine-based tank car operators that would have shipped diesel fuel or heating oil - or even New England-based operators, for that matter. Such commodities were shipped either in tank cars owned by the large petroleum companies (in the northeast, Texaco, Eastern Shell [SEPX], Cities Service [EORX], Gulf, Mexican Petroleum [Amoco, MPLX], Sinclair, etc.) or the big car leasing companies, primarily Union Tank Line (which served all of the Standard Oil spin-offs as well as some smaller petroleum producers) and General American. Simply on the basis of car ownership, UTLX and GATX cars would be the most likely to turn up in such service.

Richard Hendrickson


Tank Car Line Names

Norm <ndrez@...>
 

I'm currently building a 3'x4' diorama of a mythical but quite plausible Maine coastal seaport set in 1940 where a narrow gauge line from the interior intersected with the standard gauge main line running along the coast. While the standard gauge line will undoubtedly be (almost all) real, I have some leeway in choosing road/owner names for various freight cars. I have my own favorite names for boxcars, gondolas, flats, hoppers, and reefers, but I'd really like to find a good (hopefully local) line to own the tank cars in the freight consist. My preference is for having one delivering diesel fuel for ships and another with heating oil for buildings.

With this as background, my question to the group is, Where can I go to find the names of tank car owners circa 1940 in coastal Maine?

TIA
Norm


Re: NMRA convention

Tim O'Connor
 

Greg,

He said transmitters and ceiling mounted receivers -- that
sounds wireless to me. But it sounds completely impractical.
Where are you going to put a transmitter in a switcher that
is already jammed full of stuff? Or is the transmitter part
of the DCC decoder?

An advantage of track-based systems is they are prototypical,
in that any wheelset can be detected, not just motorized stuff.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/20/2007 06:01 PM Friday, you wrote:

Is this system going to transmit the decoder signals via the track or a wireless application. DCC and signals aren't the best combination because nickle silver and oxygen=oxidation and the spells T_R_O_U_B_L_E for transmisssion of signals.
Greg Martin


Re: Question about taking apart Ready-to-Run kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Some of our favorite vendors are going over to producing built
up cars only. I don't believe I will ever out a car on the
railroad straight out of the box. Even Kadee boxcars, I add a
little weight, fortunately the doors open.

Kadee freight cars use no adhesive at all. You can take them
completely apart and put them back together again. Just be
careful with the delicate parts.

Also I've noticed Athearn uses minimum glue on RTR cars. The
floors are usually removable for example. Roofs are sometimes
not glued either. Some Walthers cars are just snap-fit as well.

Tim O'Connor


Re: WEX: Is it real... or is it Red Ball?

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

The majority of M.Dale Newton's Red Ball stock was lost in a catastrophic fire at his Medford, OR "plant" in c. 1943; the result being that production of so many of his original kits, printed sides, and parts was not resumed after business resumed. This little-remarked watershed event (memorialized in a series of continuing small advertisements in the MR of the time) has both frustrated as well as presented challenges to modelers attempting to either identify or search for these older models and sides.

Of course, anything Red Ball with Howell Day's name on it postdates that episode by at least a decade.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Question about taking apart Ready-to-Run kits

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Jim,

I've found most of the RTR cars that I have are pretty well done -- of course that is why I bought them.

As far as modifications go I tend to use the same technology that I used on cars with cast on details. Cut the parts off, replace them with what is accurate, get the paint as close as possible and make up the rest with weathering.

I have not heard of the freezer technique for RTR models. I suppose I could find room in there for a boxcar once I re-arranged my bulk film supply and bulk pruchase of various grades of ACC. I might have to let the ice cream set out over night through.

Mont Switzer

James Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:


Some of our favorite vendors are going over to producing built
up cars only. I don't believe I will ever out a car on the
railroad straight out of the box. Even Kadee boxcars, I add a
little weight, fortunately the doors open.

I deplore this commercial development. No alternate parts,
someone chose for me. Any modifications need paint matching to
hide new parts and scars. Still, for some models I cannot avoid
a ready-to-run car. It is that or do without.

Often I need to change doors, running boards, brake details,
even boxcar roofs. How do I get these cars apart? I mean,
without damaging them?

One suggestion I hear is putting the car in the freezer. If the
car is assembled with cyanoanacrylate (crazy glue), this will
weaken the bond and thing will pop apart with little
persuading. This bonding is common in China-assembled
products.

Bonds with solvents this freezing trick does not work.

What are peoples' experiences with this situation?

.






---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.


Re: 70 Ton Andrews Trucks in HO

al_brown03
 

Thanks, Dennis. I already have several pair so that really makes my
shopping easy <g>. Now, related to your reply, exactly where would I
look, or what book(s) would I need to have, to be able to answer my
question, and others about various trucks? Is there one source that
would cover most if not all trucks that would commonly be seen on
Steam Era Freight Cars in the late 1930s through early 40s?
A real good starting point is Richard Hendrickson's article in RP CYC 4.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Thanks,

Walter M. Clark
Time Stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: Freight Car Parts

jerryglow2
 

As Richard already commented, there isn't but Carbuilders Cyclopedias
contain builders plugs on their own equipment plus a section on parts
details. Not all inclusive nor that readily available.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul & Bernice Hillman"
<chris_hillman@...> wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?

I mean a book which describes these various components without
necessarily going into specific cars themselves?

I know that this info can be gleaned "piece-meal" from the multitude
of
construction articles and books, but I think it would be an excellent
quick-reference to these components.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Re: Question about taking apart Ready-to-Run kits

Charles Hladik
 

Mont,
When you are ready to try to "de-glue" a car let us know, we'll come
help with the ice cream.
Chuck Hladik



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Megow HO Gauge Cement Car

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:

Walter Clark's post on his Megow cement car made me smile, and his
anecdote of fortuitously noting his future father-in-law's TRAINS
magazine as a reliable bona fide that he was marrying into the right
family made me smile even more :-).

<SNIP, a whole lot of interesting stuff>

I find these old historic models from the early days of HO scale
model railroading interesting on multiple levels, not the least of
which is to reflect upon how in effect "prototype modeling" was
interpreted by the manufacturers of those early days, and how they
translated this into something that could be adapted to a relatively
tiny scale, and be affordable and within skill range at the same
time. In these regards, IMHO, and on balance, they very often did
surprisingly well.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento
Denny,

Do you (or maybe someone else) have any information regarding what
prototype this kit was supposed to represent? The diagrams included
in the instructions show build dates of 1935. I don't know if the kit
originally had decals; it didn't have any when I got the box. So,
along with what prototype can anyone suggest appropriate decals,
including such details as build date, capacity info, etc.?

Thanks,

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: 70 Ton Andrews Trucks in HO

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@> wrote:

Guys,

Is there a decent (nice definite term, that) 70 ton Andrews Truck out
and available in HO?

The Accurail Andrews truck is actually a model of a 70 ton truck, as
it has a 5'-8" wheelbase.


ton AAR ("Bettendorf") trucks is the 50 ton has two easily visible
coil springs while the 70 ton has three easily visible coil springs.

70 ton trucks had spring groups with FIVE spring positions during the
steam era; 40 and 50 ton trucks had four. The bolster was appx. 3"
wider to accommodate that fifth spring nestled between the other four.
This, and the 2" increase in wheelbase, are the only visible
difference, unless you can read the journal size lettering cast into
the sideframe. A steam era truck with SIX spring positions (three
showing and three behind) would be some sort of special 90 or 100 ton
truck; pretty rare beasts at the time.

Dennis
Thanks, Dennis. I already have several pair so that really makes my
shopping easy <g>. Now, related to your reply, exactly where would I
look, or what book(s) would I need to have, to be able to answer my
question, and others about various trucks? Is there one source that
would cover most if not all trucks that would commonly be seen on
Steam Era Freight Cars in the late 1930s through early 40s?

Thanks,

Walter M. Clark
Time Stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: WEX: Is it real... or is it Red Ball?

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 16:42 7/20/2007, Tom Madden wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Now, I wouldn't even guess about why Western Electric would own
logging flats.
Transporting telephone poles?

Tom Madden, Bell Labs 1960-1994
Oak lumber for the switchboard cabinetry shops in Newark NJ and Cicero IL...???
While these did exist...
the Red Ball kit car is -not- actually a lumber car, but a conventional 40ft flat with a load of cable reels.

If anyone has STMFC-related info on either WECo's Newark or Hawthorne works, I would be more than interested!

Richard Brennan, Western Electric/AT&T Network Systems 1970-1995


Question about taking apart Ready-to-Run kits

James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

Some of our favorite vendors are going over to producing built
up cars only. I don't believe I will ever out a car on the
railroad straight out of the box. Even Kadee boxcars, I add a
little weight, fortunately the doors open.

I deplore this commercial development. No alternate parts,
someone chose for me. Any modifications need paint matching to
hide new parts and scars. Still, for some models I cannot avoid
a ready-to-run car. It is that or do without.

Often I need to change doors, running boards, brake details,
even boxcar roofs. How do I get these cars apart? I mean,
without damaging them?

One suggestion I hear is putting the car in the freezer. If the
car is assembled with cyanoanacrylate (crazy glue), this will
weaken the bond and thing will pop apart with little
persuading. This bonding is common in China-assembled
products.

Bonds with solvents this freezing trick does not work.

What are peoples' experiences with this situation?

.


Re: WEX: Is it real... or is it Red Ball?

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Now, I wouldn't even guess about why Western Electric would own
logging flats.
Transporting telephone poles?

Tom Madden, Bell Labs 1960-1994

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