Date   

Re: floors was Holes (was: any guesses about this car?)

Bruce Smith
 

On Wed, July 25, 2007 12:39 pm, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
Posted by: "smithbf36832" DANG! That killed my pet theory, which was
that the floor in the
doorways had been replaced, given that that was the highest traffic
area and subject to the most damage. In fact, many railroads put
steel decking in the door area to help with this...
==================

What doors ? Looks like a bulkhead flat to me. Since the photo was
taken from a dome car location that was obviously higher than the side
of the car, wouldn't we see the sides if it was a house car.
Malcolm,
I don't know of too many bulkhead flats with running boards ;^) (and
side ladders are pretty rare on bulkhead flats too, now that I think about
it)

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Chalk Color

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

We are getting way off base, freight car wise, but in my experience in
construction, "keel" was not chalk but more like crayons.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

I have spent 50 years in the construction business and have much
experience
with various "chalks" (sometimes called "keel") and have always
suspected,
but
have not verified, that RR car markings were done in a similar
material. It
is
slightly "greasier" than classrom chalk, therefore making a very
clear and
bright mark. It came in white, yellow and blue and since blue does not
photograph well in old b&w film, some of the white markings may
well be blue.
Mont's description fits this material perfectly.

CJ Riley


Re: Chalk Color

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I just uploaded a scan from the Machinist's Supply Company (Pittsburgh, PA) 1925 Hand-Book illustrating American Crayon Company No. 888 "Old Faithful Crayons for Railroads". They were 1 DIA x 4 LG and available in white, red, blue, and green. From the description, it appears that a competing product was "rough lump chalk".

HTH,
KL


Re: Freight Car Parts

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson

". . . There are collectors, of course, who know the identity of the photographer but won't disclose
it, . . ."

What's the motivation behind that?

KL


More thoughts on resin warping & shrinkage

Andy Carlson
 

CJ's response reminded me of some thin HO castings I poured a few years ago. I had done patterns for some Canadian 52' Z-bar steel gondolas, both 3'6 IH and 4'0 IH with help from John Riddel. I wanted very thin gondola sides, for the gondolas are open cars, and I wanted the as close to scale as possible look. The good folks at BJ Resins in Tustin, CA. suggested a resin for this. I made the patterns for the sides out of .010 styrene, exclusive of the Z-bars. I cast the sides with the suggested resin and was quite surprised at the warp-resistance the cast parts had. I had lost a gondola side casting in my car between the seats where it took over 6 months for us to be reacquainted. Through Hot summer days where the car was parked in direct sun, the surviving part was rifle-straight after this ordeal.
It is important to have a good resin matched to the specific conditions of the pour. In production work, this becomes problematic, but in my part time amateur status I was able to experiment a lot. I have some of these completed gondolas and years later they are still straight sided. I was not happy, though, with the resin for consideration of being my regular casting resin in that it was opaque in the liquid state, and was therefore much more difficult in chasing out trapped air bubbles.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

cj riley <cjriley42@...> wrote: Be careful about generalizing on resin color. I was in the casting business for
many years and used several suppliers as I came up to speed. Alumilite is not
the only yellow (buff?) resin. And , as I am sure Tom and the other
professional casters know. there are hundreds, if not thousands of varieties of
resins in many colors. They are all formulated to have specific properties so
as to meet the needs of a range of customers. I didn't cast thin parts so I can
offer little to that discussion.


Re: Team Track Useage

Greg Martin
 

And there is always a "lumpers" to be found as well... Load'um up in the company truck and go...


Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 2:32 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Team Track Useage







--- In STMFC@..., "joe binish" <joebinish@...> wrote:

While perusing a few mags that have photos of team tracks, It
occurred to me that this must have been quite an organizational
excercise to get the correct local truck to the correct car and get
the freight unloaded. I am speaking of large outfits, like the
Chicago complex in MRs "Modeling the 50s".

Can someone in the know enlighten me?

TIA,
Joe Binish

Public team track? Ever wonder why teamsters were typically big burly
guys? Biggest guy gets his truck to the car he needs; everyone else
moves or gets out of the way. Some things in life just ain't fair.

Dennis





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Re: Team Track Useage

Ljack70117@...
 

I am sorry I do not agree with you, A 9 MM will cut any body down to size.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:32 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "joe binish" <joebinish@...> wrote:

While perusing a few mags that have photos of team tracks, It
occurred to me that this must have been quite an organizational
excercise to get the correct local truck to the correct car and get
the freight unloaded. I am speaking of large outfits, like the
Chicago complex in MRs "Modeling the 50s".

Can someone in the know enlighten me?

TIA,
Joe Binish


Public team track? Ever wonder why teamsters were typically big burly
guys? Biggest guy gets his truck to the car he needs; everyone else
moves or gets out of the way. Some things in life just ain't fair.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Chalk Color

Edward Dabler
 

In a message dated 7/25/2007 2:57:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cjriley42@... writes:




I have spent 50 years in the construction business and have much experience
with various "chalks" (sometimes called "keel") and have always suspected,
but
have not verified, that RR car markings were done in a similar material. It
is
slightly "greasier" than classrom chalk, therefore making a very clear and
bright mark. It came in white, yellow and blue and since blue does not
photograph well in old b&w film, some of the white markings may well be blue.
Mont's description fits this material perfectly.

CJ Riley






I have never thought of Keel" as being chalk. I've always thought of it as
being lumber crayon and as I recall it's labeled "lumber crayon" on the paper
wrapper around the crayon. It's much harder than chalk and can be obtained
in a number of different colors, i. e. yellow, blue, green and red. I spent
a number of years in the engineering department of several railroads. We
used keel for making marks on rail or writing on survey markers when surveying
for construction of maintenance of way projects. Keel is also commonly used
by engineering surveyors on construction projects and in the making of land
surveys not involving anything railroad.

Ed Dabler







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Re: Team Track Useage

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

If you want a more descriptive name, on the B&M they were called public delivery tracks.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Team Track Useage

Jason Hill
 

Hello all,
Not to be remedial but don't forget the freight
houses that handled most of the small shipments. The
types of packages that are now handled by the likes of
FedEx and UPS. Most places had a warehouse that acted
as the staging area for the loads. So the delivery
trucks and the boxcars are just spotted at the loading
docks and the loads are transferred.
Want a busy industry, model the town freight house!

Jason Hill



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Re: Chalk Color

Edward Dabler
 

In a message dated 7/25/2007 2:57:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cjriley42@... writes:




I have spent 50 years in the construction business and have much experience
with various "chalks" (sometimes called "keel") and have always suspected,
but
have not verified, that RR car markings were done in a similar material. It
is
slightly "greasier" than classrom chalk, therefore making a very clear and
bright mark. It came in white, yellow and blue and since blue does not
photograph well in old b&w film, some of the white markings may well be blue.
Mont's description fits this material perfectly.

CJ Riley






I have never thought of Keel" as being chalk. I spent a number of years in
the engineering department of several railroads. We used keel for making
marks on rail or writing on survey markers when surveying for construction of
maintenance of way projects. Keel is also commonly used by engineering
surveyors on construction projects and in the making of land surveys not involving
anything railroad.

Ed Dabler



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Team Track Useage

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "joe binish" <joebinish@...> wrote:

While perusing a few mags that have photos of team tracks, It
occurred to me that this must have been quite an organizational
excercise to get the correct local truck to the correct car and get
the freight unloaded. I am speaking of large outfits, like the
Chicago complex in MRs "Modeling the 50s".

Can someone in the know enlighten me?

TIA,
Joe Binish

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Public team track? Ever wonder why teamsters were typically big burly
guys? Biggest guy gets his truck to the car he needs; everyone else
moves or gets out of the way. Some things in life just ain't fair.

Dennis


Re: Bill Welch's FGEX/WFEX/BREX Handout

jerryglow2
 

Note STMFPH is NOT STMFC - it is a different Yahoo Group established
as an "overflow" area before Yahoo granted us more storage space. As
such, you must join it as a separate group.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Jerry,

This is what I get: The requested file or directory is not found on
the
server. Otherwise, I keep getting sent back to "Activate Web
Access",
which I did years ago.

Yes, I'm properly logged in.

Hating Yahoo more and more,


Garth G. Groff


Re: Team Track Useage

Ljack70117@...
 

I do not understand why some of you want to make a major project out of a team track delivery. The RR places the car on the track. The agent's clerk calls the consignee tell him his shipment is in and on the team track. The consignee then comes down to unload. He does not need his mama to take him by the hand and lead him to the car. He has been told the car number and if there is more than one team track also which track it is on. His people are very capable in locating it and unloading it and when it is mty the consignee call the agents office tells them it is mty. He gets the way bill and sighs it. Most of the time the freight is prepaid. Some times not. It gets paid. All of this can and some times does get taken care of with the Consignee and the RR people never seeing each other.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Jul 25, 2007, at 4:33 PM, joe binish wrote:

While perusing a few mags that have photos of team tracks, It occurred to me that this must have been quite an organizational excercise to get the correct local truck to the correct car and get the freight unloaded. I am speaking of large outfits, like the Chicago complex in MRs "Modeling the 50s".

Can someone in the know enlighten me?

TIA,
Joe Binish


Re: Chalk Color

Malcolm H. Houck
 

I'm a bit surprised to see so many references to chalk and none to
soapstone. I've seen any number of references in historic railroad rule books, special
instructions or ETTs about making markings with soapstone. It's still easily
obtainable today, in thin stick form, and with retractable holders similar
to utility knives.........from any welding supply shop.

Soapstone will mark on just about any surface (which's why it's referred
marker for welders) and will render all marks in white. Also it's considerably
more durable than most chalks..........but yet marks with the same ease as
chalk.

Mal Houck



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Team Track Useage

Shawn Beckert
 

Joe Binish wrote:

While perusing a few mags that have photos of team
tracks, It occurred to me that this must have been
quite an organizational excercise to get the correct
local truck to the correct car and get the freight
unloaded. I am speaking of large outfits, like the
Chicago complex in MRs "Modeling the 50s".
From the maps and documents I've seen, most railroads
and their customers had a pretty good idea where the
team tracks nearest their business were located. The
Western Pacific's Circular 167-E, for example, listed
the team tracks in every town or city they served, and
which businesses normally used them. The exact street
location was given, so if a customer wasn't familiar
with it he could certainly find it on a map, or ask
his freight agent.

The Southern Pacific did much the same thing with
industry maps and publications - I've seen at least
one SP document that showed the industries and team
tracks located in the Los Angeles Terminal district in
1958.

Shawn Beckert


HO Scale Kadee Freight Cars - FS

Jason C
 

All items are either new or in like new condition.

Shipping: Buyer to pay for shipping. Please contact me with a list of the items you want and your zip code. I will calculate the shipping cost.

Payment: Money Order, PayPal, Check. Payment is expected within 10 days. Payment by check may result in delay of shipping to ensure that funds clear.

Please contact me off list if interested in any items.

dhc628@...

Kadee

40' PS-1 Single 6' Door

4057 New York Central #180199 $25.00
4058 Akron, Canton & Youngstown #824 $25.00
4061 Santa Fe #31611 El Capitan $25.00
4066 Green Bay & Western #708 $25.00
4508 Lehigh New England #8829 $25.00

40' PS-1 Single 7' Door

4807 Boston & Maine #75097 $25.00
4814 Monon (CIL) #861 $25.00
4815 Maine Central #8121 $25.00
4909 St Louis Southwestern #34324 "Blue Streak" $25.00
4912 Milwaukee #8773 "Route of the Hiwatha" $25.00

40' PS-1 Single 8' Door

5110 Frisco #17315 $25.00
5253 Union Pacific #126129 "Be Specific" slogan $25.00
5258 Columbus & Greenville #3433 $25.00

50 Ton AAR Standard, 2 bay Offset Hopper

7010 Reading #86008 $40.00

PS-2 2-bay 2003 CU FT Covered Hopper

8612 Rock Island #7200 $35.00

Thank you,
Jason Cook
New Haven, IN

---------------------------------
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Team Track Useage

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

While perusing a few mags that have photos of team tracks, It occurred to me that this must have been quite an organizational excercise to get the correct local truck to the correct car and get the freight unloaded. I am speaking of large outfits, like the Chicago complex in MRs "Modeling the 50s".

Can someone in the know enlighten me?

TIA,
Joe Binish


Re: Freight Car Parts

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chet French wrote:
I wish that every photo in my possession had a photographer credit, but many are blank, no photographer ID, date or place. How do you deal with this type of photo in your business?
Chet, as Richard Hendrickson has already commented, sometimes you have no choice but to identify only the seller, or even as your own collection, if you have no other info. What I am upset by is the practice of ignoring photographer credit which exists, in order to credit yourself, in the form of your "collection."
That said, there is a second reason, perfectly valid, to cite your or someone else's collection: it can identify the source of that particular print, for someone who wants one. Thus saying, for example, "Smith Commercial Photography Company photo, John Jones collection" does provide additional information, if the the Smith collection is not archived somewhere. (You might have the only print in existence.) But if the Smith Company archives are now at Acme University, I believe you should credit (and obtain permission) from them, since they would likely have the negatives and thus the ability to produce superior prints or scans--not to mention ownership and rights.
I would also caution those of you new to all this, that some commercial sellers have suppressed such information. The worst offender may have been Bob Lorenz, who used to sell copies, some of them from poor copy negatives, of Wilbur Whittaker and Paul Dunn photos, without any credit except his "collection" (and naturally no revenue to the photographers). Of course I realize the images may have come to him through someone else who did the suppression; but anyone who is reasonably alert and collects photos would notice the duplications, particularly the distinctive background of many Dunn photos. I find it hard to believe that Lorenz didn't know better.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: More thoughts on resin warping & shrinkage

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Be careful about generalizing on resin color. I was in the casting business for
many years and used several suppliers as I came up to speed. Alumilite is not
the only yellow (buff?) resin. And , as I am sure Tom and the other
professional casters know. there are hundreds, if not thousands of varieties of
resins in many colors. They are all formulated to have specific properties so
as to meet the needs of a range of customers. I didn't cast thin parts so I can
offer little to that discussion.

CJ Riley
--- Tom Madden <tgmadden@...> wrote:

Pierre Oliver writes:
Which leads me to my question. The kits that are showing all this
warping, which resin was being used? The older yellow stuff? The
soft white, such has used by F&C? Or the grey resin like what
Sunshine and Westerfield use?
The "older yellow stuff" is Alumilite. I have no idea what resin F&C
uses but am sceptical that it's polycarbonate, as they claim. Al and
Martin use different resins, and I think Al even uses different
resins for his flat kits than for his one-piece bodies. Ted's caster
(his second) uses the same resin I do, but some of his kits were
contracted out for casting in Canada while his new caster was coming
up to speed. I'm pretty sure the Speedwitch NP 50' auto car was done
in Canada.

I'm suspecting that this issue may be more about the kind of resin
being used, along with improperly cured castings.
I don't have one of the Speedwitch NP auto cars but have heard there
were problems with the sides being too thin. That would be a pattern
problem, not a casting problem. While Ted was having those cars cast
in Canada I was doing a bunch of Georgia RR boxcars for him, a
private run of kits to be given to attendees at his first prototype
modelers seminar. I remember insisting on thicker sides on the one
piece body so resin would flow better in the mold, and so he could
incorporate a pocket in the body casting to receive and register the
floor casting. I have one of his K-106 CB&Q 40' boxcar kits, done by
his second caster, and the body is done that way. The NP auto car
was the first one-piece body house car Ted did. If that's one of the
problem kits that started this thread, I'd say Ted was a quick
learner and thickened the sides on subsequent models. Anyone have
his CN Fowler car or M-K-T boxcars at hand? Those followed the NP
car and it would be interesting to know if they have thicker sides.

Tom Madden




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