Date   

Painting With PBL and Accupaint Lacquers

rgs0554
 

The subject of painting with Accupaint has again been raised on STMFC. I've used
both Accupaint and Star Brand lacquer paint for years and would like to offer these
comments. I suspect the two paints come from the same manufacturing source and are
blended and bottled respectively by SMP Industries (Accupaint) and by Peterbuilt
Locomotive Works (PBL Star Brand). Whether true or not, both paints act very similarly.
PBL Star Brand is a bit thicker and PBL emphasizes that Star Brand must be thinned about
40% paint and 60% thinner. I find the two paints to be complementary. Star brand offers
several excellent shades of freight car red/brown as well as black, white, wood weathering
colors plus BN, SP and UP diesel colors. Over the past 15 or so years Star Brand has
ALWAYS! been available. Accupaint has many shades of green, blue and maroon as well as
their range of other railroad colors. Taken together they offer great colors in a fast drying
paint with excellent shelf life similar to that of Floquil of 40 years ago. Both paints
normally dry in less than an hour. Both paints are very sensitive to humidity. When I lived
in Colorado it was sometimes necessary to add retarder to them. I'm now again living in
Michigan and do not need to. I do use a paint booth with external ventilation when
painting with them. For both paints I use Dupont 3696S Acrylic lacquer thinner. The last
gallon I bought a couple of years ago was $30, I know that's expensive but a gallon of
acetone which I use for air brush clean up is currently $14/gal.

Over the years I too have had paint adhesion problems both with some resin kits and
when masking multicolor paint jobs on styrene. A few years ago MRR had an article about
using an auto body paint adhesion promoter for celcon or delrin diesel handrails. I bought
it. The first try was great but as the months went by problems developed. Trying to paint
a model with an Aerosol can is kinda like swatting a fly with a sledge hammer and when
the product was sprayed into a container to captured and re-sprayed with my air brush, it
left spider webs. I went back to the auto paint store and found a PPG product called
DPX801 Plastic Adhesion Promoter. It was $40 per quart. It is a low viscosity pinkish
liquid. I've used it for about a year with no shelf life problems. I now prime resin
assembled kits, trucks and styrene items which I intend to mask with it. I'm quite pleased
with the results.

This system of painting gives me excellent results for most of my painting needs. I
deviate from it only when painting brass for which I use oven baked Scalecoat 1. You can
check out Star Brand paints at PBL's website which is
www.p-b-l.com

Regards, Don Smith


Re: Bagged Cement Car

Charles Hladik
 

Tim,
I'm no chemist by a long shot, but it's been 2 years and the cement has
not affected Weaver's paint, which I imagine is Scalecoat.
Chuck Hladik



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Bagged Cement Car

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't think I'd use real cement on a model... I've heard that talcum
powder works. (Same thing that they put in "flat" clear coat paint.)

I saw a nice weathered PS2 model on Ebay that had a nice "shadow"
effect that can be seen on a freshly dusted freight car, when the hatches
are open during loading -- After the hatches are closed, there would be
a "shadow" of the open hatch on the car roof. You wouldn't want to do
it on more than one or two cars, but the effect is arresting.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...>
Vinegar will clean your car next time.
Clark Propst


Re: Bagged Cement Car

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Chuck,

Have you had satisfactory results with the cement dust? How does it react to an overspray of dull finish without drawbacks? Enquiring mind, etc.

Fred Freitas

RUTLANDRS@... wrote:
Mont,
Are you going to use REAL cement to weather your B&O car? I went down to
a local plant and got a butter tub full of real cement for free!! Have used
it on my O scale Lackawannna cars.
Chuck Hladik

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: oiling journals (Was Holes, etc...)

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

There are indeed a number of different commercial Babbitt
compositions. I assumed in Dennis's remark that he was referring to
other soft bearing metals, of which there are several. I don't think he
meant that bare bronze was used in freight car journals. If that was
meant, I'd like to know the source of the info.
Dennis had better step up with a clarification :-) Dennis was going
from memory from his active days in railway preservation, more than a
few years ago. Dennis' memory says that he's seen journal bearings
that were not babbit lined, but then again, now that he thinks back,
they may have been from a streetcar, or they may have been traction
motor axle cap bearings from a streetcar. Similar in function, similar
in appearance, but not from a railroad freight car. Since the ARA long
ago published specifications for "Lined Journal Bearings" , and the
ARA (later AAR) bearings would be the only ones used in freightcars,
I'll concede that Larry has it right, and I was thinking of something
else.

Dennis


Re: Bagged Cement Car

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mont Switzer
To: STMFC@...

Under normal circumstances there is a lot of cement dust flying around in a cement plant. They do a better job of controlling it now than back in the 1950's , but it is still all over the place. So a car setting in a cement plant awaiting loading and/or spotted for loading would be subject to this dust. The same conditions could exist with the consignee also.

And then there is the possibility that while the car was in the cement plant something terrible happened which means heavy dust. This happened to my automobile in the 1960's (I was driving a steam era auto at the time) and I had to rub out the paint to get rid of the cement dust.

Funny you should ask about cement. I'm in the process of weathering a B&O N-34 covered cement hopper.

----- Original Message -----

Thanks Mont.

I'd hate to have worked there and parked my car in the lot every day. . .

KL


Re: Bagged Cement Car

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Mont gave good info. But, the white dusting could also have been from a
fertilizer plant or other facility that handled light colored powered
material and the car was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Generally, a car was only in a plant for a couple days, but if the RR
had assigned the car to a pool more buildup would occur.
Vinegar will clean your car next time.
Clark Propst


Re: oiling journals (Was Holes, etc...)

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson To: STMFC@...

C'mon, Kurt, that's like saying steel has carbon in it, so graphite is called "steel" by some. It's so silly a remark that I assume you're joking. I sure hope so.
There are indeed a number of different commercial Babbitt compositions. I assumed in Dennis's remark that he was referring to other soft bearing metals, of which there are several. I don't think he meant that bare bronze was used in freight car journals. If that was meant, I'd like to know the source of the info.
BTW, Kurt, "bronze" is actually a generic term for a number of copper alloys OTHER THAN brass, that is, alloyed with something other than zinc. There are phosphor bronzes and aluminum bronzes, to name just two. In fact, some copper alloy listings call the one we're speaking of as "tin bronze."

----- Original Message -----

See, I knew you'd enjoy it.

KL


Re: oiling journals (Was Holes, etc...)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Babbitt metal doesn't have a single defined composition, IIRC, but it is
mainly tin with about 10% copper. "Bronze" is kind of a generic term for
copper - tin alloys, so there is some overlap in the terms. Both are
characterized as copper alloys under the UNS Cxxxxx designation, as are
brasses, cupronickels, and nickel silvers.

In other words Larry, what some call "Babbitt" is called "bronze" by others.
C'mon, Kurt, that's like saying steel has carbon in it, so graphite is called "steel" by some. It's so silly a remark that I assume you're joking. I sure hope so.
There are indeed a number of different commercial Babbitt compositions. I assumed in Dennis's remark that he was referring to other soft bearing metals, of which there are several. I don't think he meant that bare bronze was used in freight car journals. If that was meant, I'd like to know the source of the info.
BTW, Kurt, "bronze" is actually a generic term for a number of copper alloys OTHER THAN brass, that is, alloyed with something other than zinc. There are phosphor bronzes and aluminum bronzes, to name just two. In fact, some copper alloy listings call the one we're speaking of as "tin bronze."

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...


Re: Chalk Color

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Guys,

The stuff I was referring to was really chalk just like in school. When we wanted to make it write on things chalk normally would not (tire shipments come to mind) we would soak it in water (buy a cup of coffee from the machine, drink it, fill the cup with water, soak the chalk for 15 minutes) making it seem "greasy."

It never occurred to me that some of the freight car makings might be with a crayon like stick. It might depend on how long you wanted the marking to stay or what you had available.

Jack is right, we are getting a little far afield here.

Mont Switzer
Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:
We are getting way off base, freight car wise, but in my experience in
construction, "keel" was not chalk but more like crayons.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

I have spent 50 years in the construction business and have much
experience
with various "chalks" (sometimes called "keel") and have always
suspected,
but
have not verified, that RR car markings were done in a similar
material. It
is
slightly "greasier" than classrom chalk, therefore making a very
clear and
bright mark. It came in white, yellow and blue and since blue does not
photograph well in old b&w film, some of the white markings may
well be blue.
Mont's description fits this material perfectly.

CJ Riley





---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


Re: Bagged Cement Car

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Chuck,

Lance Mendheim recently did an article for MR using lag bolt cement to cast a concrete bridge so I though I would try it for cement car weathering. I'm starting with Bragdon weathering chalks for the sides to make sure I have good control over the lettering. I want to give the real cement a try on top around the hatches where it piles up.

Wonder how heavy the car will be when I'm done?

Mont Switzer

RUTLANDRS@... wrote:
Mont,
Are you going to use REAL cement to weather your B&O car? I went down to
a local plant and got a butter tub full of real cement for free!! Have used
it on my O scale Lackawannna cars.
Chuck Hladik

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour








---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!


ADMIN: Re: Bill Welch's FGEX/WFEX/BREX Handout & using the STMFPH

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tom Baker writes:,

"I have repeatedly tried to download Bill Welch's 2002 Naperville handout but keep getting the message "This page cannot be accessed" or some such wording. Any ideas?"

Yes. Note that those files are in STMFPH. You are not a member of that group. To access the files you need to be a member. It is not approval only so joining is easy. Subscribe using: STMFPH-subscribe@...

Post message: STMFPH@...
Subscribe: STMFPH-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: STMFPH-unsubscribe@...
List owner: STMFPH-owner@...



Note also that the STMFPH is not for messages and is only for archiving in the file space.

Mike Brock
STMFC & STMFPH Owner


Re: Bagged Cement Car

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Kurt,

Under normal circumstances there is a lot of cement dust flying around in a cement plant. They do a better job of controlling it now than back in the 1950's , but it is still all over the place. So a car setting in a cement plant awaiting loading and/or spotted for loading would be subject to this dust. The same conditions could exist with the consignee also.

And then there is the possibility that while the car was in the cement plant something terrible happened which means heavy dust. This happened to my automobile in the 1960's (I was driving a steam era auto at the time) and I had to rub out the paint to get rid of the cement dust.

Funny you should ask about cement. I'm in the process of weathering a B&O N-34 covered cement hopper.

Mont Switzer



Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:
In a 1988 or 1989 Model Railroading I just bought there is a color picture of Sunnyside Yard with a SSW PS-1 in the center. The car is almost completely white with residue covering the roof, sies, and ends rather uniformly. The caption (I know, could be wrong) says that this car is "obviously in bagged cement service". Why would *bagged* cement put loose powder all over the car? Wouldn't bagged cement be somewhat neater than bulk cement, such as loaded in covered hoppers?

KL








---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.


Re: Another answer to this (was)oiling journals

Ljack70117@...
 

One more thing from NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN ENGLISH. THIRD COLLEGE EDITION. (Caps because the book title is in caps) Babbitt Metal. A soft white metal of tin, lead,, copper and antimony in various proportions,used to reduce friction as in bearings.
I pass to Webester
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Jul 27, 2007, at 11:08 AM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: Ljack70117@...
To: STMFC@...

OK please tell me which bearings were not Babbit lined. I never saw
one that wasn't.

----- Original Message -----

Babbitt metal doesn't have a single defined composition, IIRC, but it is
mainly tin with about 10% copper. "Bronze" is kind of a generic term for
copper - tin alloys, so there is some overlap in the terms. Both are
characterized as copper alloys under the UNS Cxxxxx designation, as are
brasses, cupronickels, and nickel silvers.

In other words Larry, what some call "Babbitt" is called "bronze" by others.

I'm sure Tony will enjoy correcting me.

KL




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: color?

al_brown03
 

The Glidden Company still make paint; but judging by their website,
their current product codes aren't in the same format as "MGL-8319".
Might try asking them.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

The AC&F paint specs in the bills of materials normally do not give
the
paint number for shades of freight car red.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Thanks Ed, but this spec was for red freight car paint not freight
car red paint. I was just wondering if there was a way to reference
the color.
Clark Propst


Re: Bill Welch's FGEX/WFEX/BREX Handout

Thomas Baker
 

Group,

I have repeatedly tried to download Bill Welch's 2002 Naperville handout but keep getting the message "This page cannot be accessed" or some such wording. Any ideas?

Tom

________________________________

From: STMFC@... on behalf of Frank Greene
Sent: Tue 7/24/2007 4:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bill Welch's FGEX/WFEX/BREX Handout



"benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:
Bill Welch's 2002 Naperville handout, "The Wood Sheathed Cars of the
FGEX/WFEX/BREX Freight Refrigerator Fleet: 1940-1953" has been
uploaded to the STMFPH group files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/FGEX/
Ben, many thanks for taking your time to scan and post the handout. And,
thanks go to Bill as well for granting permission to share it.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: oiling journals (Was Holes, etc...)

John F. Cizmar
 

Sorry,
Use www.americanbabbittinc.com.
John F. Cizmar

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: Ljack70117@...
To: STMFC@...

OK please tell me which bearings were not Babbit lined. I never saw
one that wasn't.

----- Original Message -----

Babbitt metal doesn't have a single defined composition, IIRC, but it is
mainly tin with about 10% copper. "Bronze" is kind of a generic term for
copper - tin alloys, so there is some overlap in the terms. Both are
characterized as copper alloys under the UNS Cxxxxx designation, as are
brasses, cupronickels, and nickel silvers.

In other words Larry, what some call "Babbitt" is called "bronze" by others.

I'm sure Tony will enjoy correcting me.

KL






---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.


Re: oiling journals (Was Holes, etc...)

John F. Cizmar
 

Take a look @ www.americanbabbitinc.com they have a history of babbit bearings.
John F. Cizmar

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: Ljack70117@...
To: STMFC@...

OK please tell me which bearings were not Babbit lined. I never saw
one that wasn't.

----- Original Message -----

Babbitt metal doesn't have a single defined composition, IIRC, but it is
mainly tin with about 10% copper. "Bronze" is kind of a generic term for
copper - tin alloys, so there is some overlap in the terms. Both are
characterized as copper alloys under the UNS Cxxxxx designation, as are
brasses, cupronickels, and nickel silvers.

In other words Larry, what some call "Babbitt" is called "bronze" by others.

I'm sure Tony will enjoy correcting me.

KL






---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.


STMFC Rules

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

It has been pointed out to me that the rules of the STMFC are not readily available. While the rules are sent to all new members before their membership is approved, the rules of the group obviously should be readily available and as of a few minutes ago, they are and can be found in the file section of the STMFC with the surprising title of...STMFC Rules.

And, here's a copy:

"The purpose of the group is to discuss all aspects of North American
standard gauge freight cars of the steam era [ 1900-1960 ]. The objectives
include the sharing of
information about railroad freight cars including their operation, cargos,
distribution and the various techniques of building
models of them. Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible. It should be noted that discussions by the group's members
includes questions and answers regarding the group's subject. However, it
should also be noted that the group is not to be considered necessarily as a
library with its members prepared to respond to questions or acting as
sources for information. Such responses are entirely voluntary and at no
time is any group member obligated to respond to a request for information.
In fact, the group is not a good vehicle to transmit large amounts of
information. The group is a good vehicle, however, to provide guidance as to
where a member might find information.

Announcements about prototype modeling events is within scope.

Personal attacks on other members is expressly prohibited and may result in
expulsion from the group.

Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free
from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group.

ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or
my representatives. Warnings about virus activity is strictly
prohibited. Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my
representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected
to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects.

All references to politics or political views are prohibited.


Placing photos in the file space involves issues associated with copyright
and property rights. Members are allowed to upload photos into the file
and/or photo spaces but
only those photos that the members took themselves or those for which they
have permission from the photo seller or other source to present on the
internet for public consumption. Members are
expected to obtain by themselves the necessary permissions. Failure to do so
could result in the member being excluded from using the file and photo
spaces. All photos placed in the file space are for personal use only by
members of the STMFC and any rights for other usage must be negotiated with
the party holding rights to the photo's usage. Photos placed in the STMFC
file space must include in the description the source of the photo. The
STMFPH is an associated group used to provide additional storage
space and the same conditions apply to photo activity in that group.

Announcements of frt car related items for sell are permitted BUT actual
lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather
than in the message. Announcements of such sells should be kept at a
minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information
concerning the subject.

Members must sign messages with their full names. If the member's address IS
their full name exactly [ to the left of an @ sign ] or simply their full
name, that is acceptable as a signature.

Members may at any time bring any matter relating to
the STMFC to me privately for consideration."

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Hobbyline(?)/Lionel 4 bay hoppers

aquarussell <aquarussell@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Someone gave me about 20 Hobbyline/Lionel HO 4 bay ribbed hoppers
painted and decaled PRR.

The trucks are heavy brass construction, overly thick by today's
standards.

The Lionel screening machine must have used heat; you can see the
original lettering (Alaska railroad) on one of the cars.

Anyone want any of these?
Hello,

1. Is there a prototype for them?

2. Someone painted over a Lionel Alaskan Railroad hopper!?

3. Just kidding about number 2 above. In "O" they're very valuable.
In "HO" they are, well, you're trying to give some away.

4. Always strip the old paint off if you can, before repainting. I
have some Varney ore cars that show the original lettering through a
layer of paint someone put on them. Next time I have the Polly-S Easy
Lift-Off out, they will lose all that.

Rsusell Hedges

132321 - 132340 of 196982