Date   

Re: From O'Hare to Naperville's Holiday Inn

Charlie Vlk
 

You COULD take the CTA downtown and then take METRA / BNSF / BN / CB&Q to Naperville....then get a local cab (don't know if the Holiday Inn or whatever it will be by October has a free shuttle) or you could just call American Taxi (www.americantaxi.com 847-255-9600 I am not sure of the rates but if you can get a couple of people together it is reasonable....unless you want the train ride. You do have to make the arrangements prior to leaving the terminal.... call them prior to making your flight and get it clear what phone number you should call after you get your luggage.... DO NOT take a Chicago cab....it will cost you an arm and a leg.... you must prearrange rides to the suburbs. Cost to Naperville should be under $40 with tip and you can share the ride with several people.
Charlie Vlk


Re: hopper loads

Tim O'Connor
 

Hey, don't get greedy! Accurail's already given you two unique-to-GN
freight cars (and acquired a third one from McKean) so give some other
railroads a chance! Seems to me that Accurail SORELY lacks a 3-dome
tank car...

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "gn3397" <heninger@medicine.nodak.edu>

I happen to know of a certain kit manufacturer who has produced GN
prototype kits in injection molded styrene, who seem to be lacking an
offset twin in their product line. <g>.


Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

Mark P.
 

I am trying to identify the the owning railroad and class of stock cars appearing in Warsaw, IN in this M. D. McCarter photo at <http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR=371&CISOBOX=1&REC=7>, with a plan of modeling these in S scale. The photo would have been taken between 8/45 and late 1951 (time frame of the Winona Railroad GE 44 tonner). The Winona only had refrigerator cars, so these weren't their cars. The PRR and Big Four were in the immediate vicinity. Could these be PRR stock cars?

The same image with slightly different descriptions and lesser quality is at <http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR=426&CISOBOX=1&REC=1>.

If these links do not work, go to <http://replica.palni.edu/index.php> and in the search box type "Winona cattle cars" without the hyphens and it should be the second photo displayed.

This particular photo is part of the Archives & Special Collections, Morgan Library, Grace College & Theological Seminary, Winona Lake, Indiana. They have over 600+ Winona RR photos that are in the process of being digitized. This web site is part of the Private Academy Library Network of Indiana and has railroad photos that you might not have seen elsewhere.

The majority of the online cars identified so far on the Winona (northern Indiana) are Wabash (gons and hoppers) and PRR (gons and a few boxcars), with SP boxcars, Southern gons, and SAL and Ann Arbor hoppers making fairly frequent appearances - trending away from the usual rules of equipment seen on a railroad. The Winona's main industries were eggs (hence the refrigerator cars), bulk oil distributors, creameries, foundries and a sand/gravel operation. The Wabash received a fair amount of cars from the sand/gravel operation, accounting for their large numbers online.

Thanks for any help on the stock cars.
Mark Plank
researching the Toledo & Ohio Central Railroad (NYC Lines) <http://members.kconline.com/plank/tochome.htm>
researching and modeling in S scale the Winona Railroad <http://members.kconline.com/plank/winhome.htm>

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Re: Freight Car Music

pgrace
 

What about the Copenhagen Stram Railway Gallop by Lumbye?

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Freight Car Music


Denny,

Have you ever wondered if 231 was the number of the loco or if Arthur
Honegger merely misunderstood the European wheel designation of the
Pacific?

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Denny Anspach

. . .
Arthur Honegger's
"Pacific 231" probably gets as close as any to true "railroad music"
otherwise.


FEC's "Car Ferry Company" reefers purchased by FGE

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

I spent five days last week in Chapel Hill, NC at the UNC's Wilson
Library where as a part of the ACL's Corporate Archive within the
President's File there were 82 folders devoted to Fruit Growers
Express. I made 1200-1500 digital photos of relevant pages of material
covering approximately 1939 to 1957. This will be of immense value in
helping tell the story of this company. I did find out that among the
cars they acquired were 171 cars from something called Florida East
Coast "Car Ferry Company." The only ORER I have for the period before
1940 is 1931 and there is no entry for this company. Does anyone have a
photo of one of their reefers, or even know anything about Car Ferry
Company?

That same year they also acquired 6 cars from the Borden Company and in
1945 the 10 outside braced reefers built by the N&W in 1918. There is a
photo of one of these in an early CYC.
Again hoping someone can help me with the FEC subsidiary.

Bill Welch


Re: Freight Car Music

pgrace
 

Andy,

231 is the French axle arrangement for a 4-6-2 pacific...

What about the "Copenhagen Steam Railway Gallop" by Lumbye?

Patrick Grace

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Freight Car Music


Denny,

Have you ever wondered if 231 was the number of the loco or if Arthur
Honegger merely misunderstood the European wheel designation of the
Pacific?

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Denny Anspach

. . .
Arthur Honegger's
"Pacific 231" probably gets as close as any to true "railroad music"
otherwise.


Re: hopper loads

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

There was a certain amount of lignite mined in North Dakota, but it
wasn't shipped very far; after all, the only reason for trying to burn
the "brown dirt" was that it was cheap, and shipping charges negated
that advantage. The Northern Pacific burned lignite in their
locomotives, at least for a while, and had to use larger than normal
fireboxes to get adequate BTUs. The Soo Line bought it for heating
coal, which led to all sorts of stories from old time agents about
flitching "locomotive coal" (bituminous) to get the stoves hotter
during the coldest weather.

Lignite doesn't weather well; it dissolves in the rain and returns to
the from whence it came. Therefore what little lignite that shipped by
rail went in boxcars. I've seen a picture of the Washburn Mine loading
tipple during the WWI era, and they were loading boxcars exclusively.
Mr. Storzek,
Much lignite is still mined in North Dakota, but today it is shipped out via powerline,
as it is converted into electricity at powerplants situated right at the mines. Some is
converted into byproducts at a coal gasification plant near Beulah. You may be interested
to know that in the steam era, there was a Baukol-Noonan mine tipple located south of
Noonan on the GN's Crosby branch that loaded hoppers and presumably drop bottom
gons as well. Today the old mine pits (pre-reclamation era) are fishing lakes. You can see
a picture of the tipple, along with a short history of the company (now BNI coal) at:

http://www.bnicoal.com/about/history.htm

Those hopper cars are very similar to the recent IC hoppers produced by Sunshine, but
are 4 feet longer inside (approx 31' IL on the IC vs. 35' on the GN). Hey, that gives me a
great idea. I happen to know of a certain kit manufacturer who has produced GN prototype
kits in injection molded styrene, who seem to be lacking an offset twin in their product
line. <g>.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Re: From O'Hare to Naperville's Holiday Inn

np328
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
For us Florida guyz who have not attended Naperville before, can
someone suggest how to get to the Holiday Inn from O'Hare? Direct to
me please! Thanks. Gary laakso

The CTA has a direct line, the Blue Line, from O'Hare to downtown
Chicago. Get off at the Clinton Street station and walk north two
blocks to Union Station. From there, take a train (you'll be on the
former Q three track mainline) out to Naperville. From the station,
call the hotel and the hotel van will pick you up. There also seem to
be taxis at the Naperville station whenever trains arrive. All of this
is within the commuter districts and trains run often.
This is also quite inexpensive; a ten dollar bill should cover the
train rides with money left over. (And leave you more money to spend on
Martin, Al, and Ted and other's goods.) A cab from O'Hare to Naperville
is many, many, times that price.
Jim Dick/St.Paul


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Tim O'Connor
 

A good picture of one would be helpful :-)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@yahoo.com>
Hi everyone,

Frank Hodina just emailed me, asking about a NC&StL 42 foot gon pattern he's
currently working on. It's the GB-12 class, 44000-44499 series, which were 9
panel cars built by P-S in 1949. He's found a series of Monon cars that are very
similar (3001-3300, P-S built in 1948. The ends are different), and he's
wondering if there were any other close matches out there. If any of you know of
any decent matches, now's the time to speak up!

Regards,

Ray Breyer


Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Ray Breyer
 

Hi everyone,

Frank Hodina just emailed me, asking about a NC&StL 42 foot gon pattern he's currently working on. It's the GB-12 class, 44000-44499 series, which were 9 panel cars built by P-S in 1949. He's found a series of Monon cars that are very similar (3001-3300, P-S built in 1948. The ends are different), and he's wondering if there were any other close matches out there. If any of you know of any decent matches, now's the time to speak up!

Regards,

Ray Breyer


---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.


Re: From O'Hare to Naperville's Holiday Inn

Ray Breyer
 

gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>For us Florida guyz who have not attended Naperville before,
>>can someone suggest how to get to the Holiday Inn from O'Hare?
>>Direct to me please! Thanks.

Hi Gary,

There are driving directions at the hotel's website:
http://www.naperselect.com/set_location.html

From O'Hare Airport
- Follow 190 out of the airport to 294 south
- Follow 294 south to I-88 west
- Follow I-88 west to Naperville Road Exit
The Holiday Inn Select will be a right turn after you exit.

It's about a half hour's drive at normal highway speeds (75 or so around here). It's mostly tollway driving, so have a few singles on you.

Ray Breyer





---------------------------------
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Re: Tim Gilbert

Thomas Baker
 

Very sorry to hear of Tim's passing. I have appreciated his postings over the years. We will all, I am sure, miss his expertise and his willingness to clarify or offer an insight.

Tom

________________________________


Re: hopper loads

armprem
 

In my youth during the depth of the Great Depression people would walk along the tracks carrying burlap bags.Their mission was to pick up coal along the tracks that had spilled from locomotives and cars.Bituminous (Soft) coal was burned in locomotives and in many homes as the prime source of heat.Often seen dowagers would boldly venture near the coal chutes where the picking was more rewarding.Railroad men would turn a blind eye toward the less fortunate.Railroads made little effort to salvage spilled coal.Soft coal had a special aroma.Anthracite (Hard) coal was more expensive and was the coal of choice for home heating as it burned cleaner and had a higher BTU.Some companies dyed their coal as an advertizing gimmick i.e. Blue Coal.There were several grades of coal and often came in several sizes.If I recall correctly stoker coal was smaller.Hope this adds some fuel to the fire.<G> Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: hopper loads


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:


I recall there's a third type of coal - lignite. I saw this up close
when I lived in Germany. It almost looked like like Celotex ceiling
tiles. Was this a common hopper load in the US anywhere in the '40s?
There was a certain amount of lignite mined in North Dakota, but it
wasn't shipped very far; after all, the only reason for trying to burn
the "brown dirt" was that it was cheap, and shipping charges negated
that advantage. The Northern Pacific burned lignite in their
locomotives, at least for a while, and had to use larger than normal
fireboxes to get adequate BTUs. The Soo Line bought it for heating
coal, which led to all sorts of stories from old time agents about
flitching "locomotive coal" (bituminous) to get the stoves hotter
during the coldest weather.

Lignite doesn't weather well; it dissolves in the rain and returns to
the from whence it came. Therefore what little lignite that shipped by
rail went in boxcars. I've seen a picture of the Washburn Mine loading
tipple during the WWI era, and they were loading boxcars exclusively.


How about coke? What does that look like? How common was it as a load
in the '40s? Were special coke cars always used?
Coke is flat black to dark gray in color. It is considerably lighter
in weight than coal, so a typical coal hopper couldn't haul a full
load. The eastern roads had special hoppers with "coke racks"
extending their sides for added cubic capacity. Old boxcars and
stockcars with their roofs removed were also common. Roads that had
little coke traffic just used boxcars or stockcars.

I'm sorry to hear that Tim Gilbert passed away. I always enjoyed his
contributions. He'll be missed.
I'll miss Tim's contributions also.

Dennis




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: hopper loads

np328
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote: How
can you tell anthracite from bituminous coal? Do they look the same?

Here is a listing from a fireman's instructional book in our NPRHA
archives that was donated by the family of Bill Shannon, one time
head of the NP Mechanical Dept.

Coal Classifications

Super Anthracite - High carbon/low impurities content/hard to start/
appearance- black and of pure carbon
Anthracite - used for domestic heating and coking/almost pure
carbon/few impurities/appearance/black
Sub-Anthracite - used for domestic heating and coking/good carbon
Bituminous/Good carbon content/some impurities/low-no moisture
Sub-Bituminous- Iowa/Illinois coals typical/impurities/some
moisture/blackish brown
Lignite-low carbon content/measurable water content/higher impurities
content/brown
Peat- high moisture/low carbon content

Also it mentions that Anthracite was BTU stable for a matter of
months, Lignite for a matter of weeks before it went slack.

Were special coke cars always used?

In the St.Paul, MN Kopper Coke yard, coal came in in gondolas
and hoppers and left in the same. From reports that I have read,
mostly NP Rwy reports, it was the consignee who determined what type
of car would be used to deliver the coke.

James Dick - NPRHA Archives
St. Paul, MN


Re: Tim Gilbert

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim was always startlingly frank and direct with me about his
health and I was always relieved to see him at Naperville or at
the Springfield Big E train show because I knew his prognosis
was grim. Yet as you say he was helpful, knowledgeable and
never lost his sense of humor. It's strange now to have so many
emails in my archive from so many departed pen pals... but in
Tim's case it's a great legacy too. I'll never be able to think about
LCL without remembering Mr. Gilbert.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
The news of Tim Gilbert's death gets my day off to a very bad start.
Tim's knowlege, resourcefulness, and willingness to share were a major
asset to the STMFC list and to prototype modeling in general. Like
Pierre Oliver, I'll miss seeing Tim at Naperville. Another good guy
gone to the great freight yard in the sky.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Coins as car weights

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Sound advice, because there are things like antimony in the
lead
that aren't good for you. But should you worry about the lead? In
reality, the vapor pressure of liquid lead is extremely low. There
will
not be enough lead vapor that it could even be measured, unless you
have a spectrograph. (Of course, I don't recommend leaning over the
bath and breathing deeply from right above the melt.)
I have heard that most lead (at least in Germany) is somewhat
contaminated by irradiation. Lead gets recycled many times over. Every
bit might have a history of having been engaged in the medical
business. This will show later on when its reincarnation into something
superficially harmless doesn't hint at its properties previously
acquired.

Manfred


Re: hopper loads

Tim O'Connor
 

Technically, bitumen and sand. Crude oil won't adhere. Besides
sand, you can use gravel, ash, steel mill slag, crushed glass, and
sometimes, shredded tires. Nowadays they use synthetic mats and
spread the bitumen on top of that and then add sand etc to soak up
the excess.

Tim "it's all macadam to me" O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ljack70117@comcast.net
A lot of the so call "Black Top" roads are oil and sand.


Re: Freight Car Music (or is it after all?)

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@...>
wrote:

Manfred,

Thanks for providing the quote in Honegger's own words. But I am
afraid
it only supports my confusion. Did Honegger mean "Marke 231" as the
number of the loco or the wheel arrangement, which, being a
Pacific, in
European notation would be 231, in American notation would have been
4-6-2.

regards,
Andy,

Marke is an unusual translation (in the sense of not using railway
lingo) from the original French. In this context the German "Marke"
means designation or class. From the wording he says: Pacific type
loco of class 231. Loco numbers are either a combination of class +
(serial) number (231 005) or like the US system a class number with
consecutive individual numbers (a 3700 class engine has e.g. the loco
number 3705). But since we are talking scores of railways there was
no general rule.

Please don't be confused. It is like it is.

Here are some pictures of other 231s used in France by the pre-state
railways.
http://www.galleriabaumgartner.ch/francia.htm

Enjoy!

Freight car content: Were freight cars ever designated by their wheel
arrangement?

Manfred


Re: hopper loads

Ljack70117@...
 

I see an error. I meant cement asphalt.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@comcast.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Aug 15, 2007, at 11:55 AM, Ljack70117@comcast.net wrote:

A lot of the so call "Black Top" roads are oil and sand. Interstate
84 in Idaho is made that way. They spray oil on the road and then
spread sand on the oil. The use rollers to roll the sand into the oil
but then let the traffic finish the job. When they were redoing a
state road north of Salina Ks we got gondola loads of sand from the
McPherson branch and then went east to the Solomon branch and then up
to Bennington Ks. These sand trains were about 50 cars twice a week
all summer long.
Have you ever seen an concrete asphalt road/street?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@comcast.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left




On Aug 15, 2007, at 11:11 AM, ed_mines wrote:

How can you tell anthracite from bituminous coal? Do they look the
same?
My recollection is that anthracite is really hard and difficult to
break.

I know one is shiny. Which one? Both?

Should model anthracite and bituminous coal loads appear different?

As long as I can remember (I was born in 1949) most roads were made
from asphalt and small small stones. Were these stones (or larger
rocks)
common hopper loads? Was this type of road common in the '40s?

I recall there's a third type of coal - lignite. I saw this up close
when I lived in Germany. It almost looked like like Celotex ceiling
tiles. Was this a common hopper load in the US anywhere in the '40s?

How about coke? What does that look like? How common was it as a load
in the '40s? Were special coke cars always used?

I'm sorry to hear that Tim Gilbert passed away. I always enjoyed his
contributions. He'll be missed.

Ed Mines




Yahoo! Groups Links





Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Freight Car Music

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

And here I thought Honegger's was a feed mill on the Wabash which Chet
as switch lists for.
Thanks for the switch list you put in the files yesterday Chet.
Clark Propst

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