Date   

Re: Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 15, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Mark Plank wrote:

I am trying to identify the the owning railroad and class of stock
cars appearing in Warsaw, IN in this M. D. McCarter photo at
<http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/
winona&CISOPTR=371&CISOBOX=1&REC=7>....
Mark, those are New York Central System stock cars as modeled in HO
scale by Al Westerfield.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Freight Car Music

Peter Weiglin
 

...and when/if, I wonder, will our moderator chime in on this topic with the theme song from the old American Airlines "Music 'Til Dawn" program?

You remember the tune? "That's All."

Peter Weiglin
Amelia, OH


Re: Freight Car Music

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "P Grace" <pgrace@...> wrote:

What about the Copenhagen Stram Railway Gallop by Lumbye?
You guys...Hank Snow's "I'm movin on" also covered by the Stones live.
Clark Propst


Re: hopper loads

CJ Riley
 

There was much coke shipped through the 50s in western PA. The Connellsville
are was loaded with beehive oven complexes that shipped by hopper. While some
large steel mills may have had their own in-house coke plants,(J&L Hazlewood
for example) it was my understanding they shipped coke to their mills that
weren't making coke: a very nasty, dirty, and smelly operation not welcomed by
the locals when a new mill was opened. Keep in mind that foundries and similar
industries used coke and wouldnot have in-house capabilities.

CJ Riley
Formerly of Pittsburgh,
now in smoke free Bainbridge Island WA


--- ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:
Coke is flat black to dark gray in color.
How about particle size?

Was there much coke being shipped? I recall it was a byproduct of
illuminating gas and some utilities burned coke in special plants.

Ed



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Re: Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Andy Miller wrote:
"The cars appear to have 'Howe Truss'."

Look again, Andy - that's true for only the first car in the cut.


Ben Hom


Re: Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Mark Plank asked:
"I am trying to identify the the owning railroad and class of stock
cars appearing in Warsaw, IN in this M. D. McCarter photo at
<http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?
CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR=371&CISOBOX=1&REC=7>, with a plan of
modeling these in S scale. The photo would have been taken between
8/45 and late 1951 (time frame of the Winona Railroad GE 44
tonner). The Winona only had refrigerator cars, so these weren't
their cars. The PRR and Big Four were in the immediate vicinity.
Could these be PRR stock cars?"

No. What we have here is a cut of New York Central stock cars. The
first car behind the locomotive appears to be a Lot 424-S or 425-S
double deck car built in 1921. This is the double deck version of
the Westerfield HO scale NYC stock car kit.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-424.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nelx-20047.jpg
http://www.westerfield.biz/10700_1921-3_40__stock_cars__nyc_}
_m_c__ccc_stl_78498.htm

The next three cars appear to be Lot 757-S or 766-S convertable
stock cars rebuilt from USRA SS boxcars in 1947 and 1948. These
cars were the prototype for the HO scale Roco model offered by AHM
in the 1970s and 1980s in virtually every paint scheme except NYC.
Micro-Trains currently offers an N scale of this prototype.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-28000.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-757.jpg


Ben Hom


Re: Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

The cars appear to have Howe Truss sideframes. That would rule out
any PRR class of stock cars from that era.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Plank
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:23 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in
Warsaw, IN

I am trying to identify the the owning railroad and class of stock cars
appearing in Warsaw, IN in this M. D. McCarter photo at
<http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR
=371&CISOBOX=1&REC=7>, with a plan of modeling these in S scale. The
photo would have been taken between 8/45 and late 1951 (time frame of
the Winona Railroad GE 44 tonner). The Winona only had refrigerator
cars, so these weren't their cars. The PRR and Big Four were in the
immediate vicinity. Could these be PRR stock cars?


Re: Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

The cars appear to have "Howe Truss"


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Plank
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:23 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in
Warsaw, IN

I am trying to identify the the owning railroad and class of stock cars
appearing in Warsaw, IN in this M. D. McCarter photo at
<http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR
=371&CISOBOX=1&REC=7>, with a plan of modeling these in S scale. The
photo would have been taken between 8/45 and late 1951 (time frame of
the Winona Railroad GE 44 tonner). The Winona only had refrigerator
cars, so these weren't their cars. The PRR and Big Four were in the
immediate vicinity. Could these be PRR stock cars?

The same image with slightly different descriptions and lesser quality
is at
<http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR
=426&CISOBOX=1&REC=1>.

If these links do not work, go to <http://replica.palni.edu/index.php>
and in the search box type "Winona cattle cars" without the hyphens and
it should be the second photo displayed.

This particular photo is part of the Archives & Special Collections,
Morgan Library, Grace College & Theological Seminary, Winona Lake,
Indiana. They have over 600+ Winona RR photos that are in the process
of being digitized. This web site is part of the Private Academy
Library Network of Indiana and has railroad photos that you might not
have seen elsewhere.

The majority of the online cars identified so far on the Winona
(northern Indiana) are Wabash (gons and hoppers) and PRR (gons and a
few boxcars), with SP boxcars, Southern gons, and SAL and Ann Arbor
hoppers making fairly frequent appearances - trending away from the
usual rules of equipment seen on a railroad. The Winona's main
industries were eggs (hence the refrigerator cars), bulk oil
distributors, creameries, foundries and a sand/gravel operation. The
Wabash received a fair amount of cars from the sand/gravel operation,
accounting for their large numbers online.

Thanks for any help on the stock cars.
Mark Plank
researching the Toledo & Ohio Central Railroad (NYC Lines)
<http://members.kconline.com/plank/tochome.htm>
researching and modeling in S scale the Winona Railroad
<http://members.kconline.com/plank/winhome.htm>

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Re: FEC's "Car Ferry Company" reefers purchased by FGE

gary laakso
 

The 1946 Moody's Steam Railroads has no separate heading for FEC, the reader is referred to ACL. There it is noted: "Jointly with the Florida East Coast Ry. Co., the Atlantic Cast Line R.R. Co. owns control of the Peninsular & Occidental S.S. Co., operating steamship lines between Miami, Port Tampa and Key West Florida to Havana, Cuba." A table on shipments shows none moving by ship prior to 1941-42. In the control table, FEC Car Ferry Company is not listed.

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/15/2007 3:04:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] FEC's "Car Ferry Company" reefers purchased by FGE


I spent five days last week in Chapel Hill, NC at the UNC's Wilson
Library where as a part of the ACL's Corporate Archive within the
President's File there were 82 folders devoted to Fruit Growers
Express. I made 1200-1500 digital photos of relevant pages of material
covering approximately 1939 to 1957. This will be of immense value in
helping tell the story of this company. I did find out that among the
cars they acquired were 171 cars from something called Florida East
Coast "Car Ferry Company." The only ORER I have for the period before
1940 is 1931 and there is no entry for this company. Does anyone have a
photo of one of their reefers, or even know anything about Car Ferry
Company?

That same year they also acquired 6 cars from the Borden Company and in
1945 the 10 outside braced reefers built by the N&W in 1918. There is a
photo of one of these in an early CYC.
Again hoping someone can help me with the FEC subsidiary.

Bill Welch


Re: From O'Hare to Naperville's Holiday Inn

Charlie Vlk
 

You COULD take the CTA downtown and then take METRA / BNSF / BN / CB&Q to Naperville....then get a local cab (don't know if the Holiday Inn or whatever it will be by October has a free shuttle) or you could just call American Taxi (www.americantaxi.com 847-255-9600 I am not sure of the rates but if you can get a couple of people together it is reasonable....unless you want the train ride. You do have to make the arrangements prior to leaving the terminal.... call them prior to making your flight and get it clear what phone number you should call after you get your luggage.... DO NOT take a Chicago cab....it will cost you an arm and a leg.... you must prearrange rides to the suburbs. Cost to Naperville should be under $40 with tip and you can share the ride with several people.
Charlie Vlk


Re: hopper loads

Tim O'Connor
 

Hey, don't get greedy! Accurail's already given you two unique-to-GN
freight cars (and acquired a third one from McKean) so give some other
railroads a chance! Seems to me that Accurail SORELY lacks a 3-dome
tank car...

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "gn3397" <heninger@medicine.nodak.edu>

I happen to know of a certain kit manufacturer who has produced GN
prototype kits in injection molded styrene, who seem to be lacking an
offset twin in their product line. <g>.


Trying to determine ownership of stock cars found in Warsaw, IN

Mark P.
 

I am trying to identify the the owning railroad and class of stock cars appearing in Warsaw, IN in this M. D. McCarter photo at <http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR=371&CISOBOX=1&REC=7>, with a plan of modeling these in S scale. The photo would have been taken between 8/45 and late 1951 (time frame of the Winona Railroad GE 44 tonner). The Winona only had refrigerator cars, so these weren't their cars. The PRR and Big Four were in the immediate vicinity. Could these be PRR stock cars?

The same image with slightly different descriptions and lesser quality is at <http://replica.palni.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/winona&CISOPTR=426&CISOBOX=1&REC=1>.

If these links do not work, go to <http://replica.palni.edu/index.php> and in the search box type "Winona cattle cars" without the hyphens and it should be the second photo displayed.

This particular photo is part of the Archives & Special Collections, Morgan Library, Grace College & Theological Seminary, Winona Lake, Indiana. They have over 600+ Winona RR photos that are in the process of being digitized. This web site is part of the Private Academy Library Network of Indiana and has railroad photos that you might not have seen elsewhere.

The majority of the online cars identified so far on the Winona (northern Indiana) are Wabash (gons and hoppers) and PRR (gons and a few boxcars), with SP boxcars, Southern gons, and SAL and Ann Arbor hoppers making fairly frequent appearances - trending away from the usual rules of equipment seen on a railroad. The Winona's main industries were eggs (hence the refrigerator cars), bulk oil distributors, creameries, foundries and a sand/gravel operation. The Wabash received a fair amount of cars from the sand/gravel operation, accounting for their large numbers online.

Thanks for any help on the stock cars.
Mark Plank
researching the Toledo & Ohio Central Railroad (NYC Lines) <http://members.kconline.com/plank/tochome.htm>
researching and modeling in S scale the Winona Railroad <http://members.kconline.com/plank/winhome.htm>

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Re: Freight Car Music

pgrace
 

What about the Copenhagen Stram Railway Gallop by Lumbye?

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Freight Car Music


Denny,

Have you ever wondered if 231 was the number of the loco or if Arthur
Honegger merely misunderstood the European wheel designation of the
Pacific?

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Denny Anspach

. . .
Arthur Honegger's
"Pacific 231" probably gets as close as any to true "railroad music"
otherwise.


FEC's "Car Ferry Company" reefers purchased by FGE

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

I spent five days last week in Chapel Hill, NC at the UNC's Wilson
Library where as a part of the ACL's Corporate Archive within the
President's File there were 82 folders devoted to Fruit Growers
Express. I made 1200-1500 digital photos of relevant pages of material
covering approximately 1939 to 1957. This will be of immense value in
helping tell the story of this company. I did find out that among the
cars they acquired were 171 cars from something called Florida East
Coast "Car Ferry Company." The only ORER I have for the period before
1940 is 1931 and there is no entry for this company. Does anyone have a
photo of one of their reefers, or even know anything about Car Ferry
Company?

That same year they also acquired 6 cars from the Borden Company and in
1945 the 10 outside braced reefers built by the N&W in 1918. There is a
photo of one of these in an early CYC.
Again hoping someone can help me with the FEC subsidiary.

Bill Welch


Re: Freight Car Music

pgrace
 

Andy,

231 is the French axle arrangement for a 4-6-2 pacific...

What about the "Copenhagen Steam Railway Gallop" by Lumbye?

Patrick Grace

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Freight Car Music


Denny,

Have you ever wondered if 231 was the number of the loco or if Arthur
Honegger merely misunderstood the European wheel designation of the
Pacific?

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Denny Anspach

. . .
Arthur Honegger's
"Pacific 231" probably gets as close as any to true "railroad music"
otherwise.


Re: hopper loads

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

There was a certain amount of lignite mined in North Dakota, but it
wasn't shipped very far; after all, the only reason for trying to burn
the "brown dirt" was that it was cheap, and shipping charges negated
that advantage. The Northern Pacific burned lignite in their
locomotives, at least for a while, and had to use larger than normal
fireboxes to get adequate BTUs. The Soo Line bought it for heating
coal, which led to all sorts of stories from old time agents about
flitching "locomotive coal" (bituminous) to get the stoves hotter
during the coldest weather.

Lignite doesn't weather well; it dissolves in the rain and returns to
the from whence it came. Therefore what little lignite that shipped by
rail went in boxcars. I've seen a picture of the Washburn Mine loading
tipple during the WWI era, and they were loading boxcars exclusively.
Mr. Storzek,
Much lignite is still mined in North Dakota, but today it is shipped out via powerline,
as it is converted into electricity at powerplants situated right at the mines. Some is
converted into byproducts at a coal gasification plant near Beulah. You may be interested
to know that in the steam era, there was a Baukol-Noonan mine tipple located south of
Noonan on the GN's Crosby branch that loaded hoppers and presumably drop bottom
gons as well. Today the old mine pits (pre-reclamation era) are fishing lakes. You can see
a picture of the tipple, along with a short history of the company (now BNI coal) at:

http://www.bnicoal.com/about/history.htm

Those hopper cars are very similar to the recent IC hoppers produced by Sunshine, but
are 4 feet longer inside (approx 31' IL on the IC vs. 35' on the GN). Hey, that gives me a
great idea. I happen to know of a certain kit manufacturer who has produced GN prototype
kits in injection molded styrene, who seem to be lacking an offset twin in their product
line. <g>.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Re: From O'Hare to Naperville's Holiday Inn

np328
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
For us Florida guyz who have not attended Naperville before, can
someone suggest how to get to the Holiday Inn from O'Hare? Direct to
me please! Thanks. Gary laakso

The CTA has a direct line, the Blue Line, from O'Hare to downtown
Chicago. Get off at the Clinton Street station and walk north two
blocks to Union Station. From there, take a train (you'll be on the
former Q three track mainline) out to Naperville. From the station,
call the hotel and the hotel van will pick you up. There also seem to
be taxis at the Naperville station whenever trains arrive. All of this
is within the commuter districts and trains run often.
This is also quite inexpensive; a ten dollar bill should cover the
train rides with money left over. (And leave you more money to spend on
Martin, Al, and Ted and other's goods.) A cab from O'Hare to Naperville
is many, many, times that price.
Jim Dick/St.Paul


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Tim O'Connor
 

A good picture of one would be helpful :-)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@yahoo.com>
Hi everyone,

Frank Hodina just emailed me, asking about a NC&StL 42 foot gon pattern he's
currently working on. It's the GB-12 class, 44000-44499 series, which were 9
panel cars built by P-S in 1949. He's found a series of Monon cars that are very
similar (3001-3300, P-S built in 1948. The ends are different), and he's
wondering if there were any other close matches out there. If any of you know of
any decent matches, now's the time to speak up!

Regards,

Ray Breyer


Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Ray Breyer
 

Hi everyone,

Frank Hodina just emailed me, asking about a NC&StL 42 foot gon pattern he's currently working on. It's the GB-12 class, 44000-44499 series, which were 9 panel cars built by P-S in 1949. He's found a series of Monon cars that are very similar (3001-3300, P-S built in 1948. The ends are different), and he's wondering if there were any other close matches out there. If any of you know of any decent matches, now's the time to speak up!

Regards,

Ray Breyer


---------------------------------
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Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.


Re: From O'Hare to Naperville's Holiday Inn

Ray Breyer
 

gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>For us Florida guyz who have not attended Naperville before,
>>can someone suggest how to get to the Holiday Inn from O'Hare?
>>Direct to me please! Thanks.

Hi Gary,

There are driving directions at the hotel's website:
http://www.naperselect.com/set_location.html

From O'Hare Airport
- Follow 190 out of the airport to 294 south
- Follow 294 south to I-88 west
- Follow I-88 west to Naperville Road Exit
The Holiday Inn Select will be a right turn after you exit.

It's about a half hour's drive at normal highway speeds (75 or so around here). It's mostly tollway driving, so have a few singles on you.

Ray Breyer





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