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car classes
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Jim Singer sent me a copy of an article about a major industry where I
live. The brick and tile operation used Class D and E cars. The article was about how they were trying to prevent damage in box cars. I have Milwaukee damage claim reports from the mid 50s and there are plenty of tile damage claims. One of their concerns was bowed ends. They used straw or hay as packing, they were looking at alternatives like chip board and palletizing when possible. I believe the article date is 54 or 55. This company shipped 5000 carloads of clay products a year from 5 Iowa plants. Clark Propst
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Re: Coins as car weights
Manfred Lorenz
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, BERNARD SPINELLI <bspinelli@...> wrote:
Go out a buy a bag of lead shot #8 at any gun shop. It will last you aI have used curtain weights as well. These are woven over with fabric into long "worms". Helps to keep them glued down with epoxy. Manfred
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Re: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights.
Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
About 5/6 years ago I went to my local tire dealer and asked about stick on
weights, the kind used on alloy wheels. They wouldn't sell me a handful, but did offer to get me a box the next time they needed some. Took a month or so, but I got a box of 360 count 1/2 oz weights (11+ lbs) and a box of 360 count 1/4 oz weights (5.5+ lbs), all for less that $50. And because they came on the regular tire delivery truck from the warehouse, no shipping charges. Nice living in a small town. And they have to use something to balance tires in California, so check your local tire dealer. I have essentially a lifetime supply. And the adhesive is tough, remember these things stick to wheels rotating at highways speeds over all kinds of roads. Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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Re: hopper loads
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Folks;
The coal and coke I saw, both in survey, at mines, and in hopper cars, did vary a lot. The sizes were determined by the usage and customer needs, and included "egg" , "lump" and other designations you can find more on on the net. In general, anthracite was shipped in larger chunks befitting its use in home heating and other specialized uses, and looked very shiny; almost like obsidian. Bituminous was less shiny, but could be anything from shiny to very dull, but was generally not as sharp-edged compared to anthracite, and also could be in more varied sizes in a given load, given a lot of its use in big power plants or steel mills. I have always thought of it as more "dusty" looking. Both we very black to dull grey. Coke was very irregular in shape, and almost a blue-grey in appearance. There are lots of nice pre-made loads that represent coal, ranging from the anthracite-looking shiny loads Kadee makes, to the dusty bituminous-looking ones that Mr. Plaster and others make in resin or plaster. You can also take the crummy ones you get in hopper kits and cover them with the real thing, which you have to do for coke, anyway. Have fun! Elden Gatwood ________________________________
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Re: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights.
Lindsay smith <wlindsays2000@...>
The manufacturer sells cases of the wheel weights that weigh about 360 pouinds. So the car parts guys are reluctant to have a slow mover in big quantity on the shelf. PPW or A-Line sells it in reasonable size packages.
I made some special sized weights from the zinc sheets from the Dentist X-ray film packs. I used some of the wife's waste nail polish to glue it into a mass. L:ots of junk will work in covered cars, I have fun stuffing straws for "pipe loads" in my gons. LIndsay --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
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Re: Freight Car Music
Westerfield <westerfield@...>
No one has ever topped Jimmy Forest's Night Train, the closest thing to a blues tone poem ever. - Al Westerfield
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Re: Tim Gilbert
Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Ian - thanks for passing along this sad news! Tim was a great source of information on how to analyse published data on railways, and willingly contributed his insight to my own efforts with Canadian data. Over the years I enjoyed watching as he continued to develop his analyses of freight car distributions and movements, and our collective understanding is far better as a result. With the work he and Dave Nelson have done, more than a few myths have been revealed as such. I'll miss his posts and friendship on this list.
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Rob Kirkham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Wilson" <ian@canadianbranchline.com> To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:19 AM Subject: [STMFC] Tim Gilbert Hello List:
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Re: weighting open top cars (was: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights)
Steve SANDIFER
2 solutions:
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On car kits with the metal weights to go under the slope sheets, cut sheet lead to the same shape. Lead will be heavier, but not enough to solve the total light car problem. I also use lead wool (like steel wool but lead). It can be molded into just about any shape and glued into cavities on the underside of the hopper. You can get it at any good plumbing supplier. I want all of my cars to be as close to NMRA weight as possible without loads. I use lightweight loads and don't depend on them to get the weight up. ______________ J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer, MMR mailto:steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918 Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417
----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S. To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: [STMFC] weighting open top cars (was: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights) I cast weights for hopper cars to put in the cavity under the slope sheet and inboard of the slope sheet support sheet over the bolster. I do this by cutting a triangular notch in the edge of a 1x3 the same shape as the cavity I intend to fill. I then sandwich this between two pieces of plywood and clamp the three pieces in a vise. I then melt solder into the cavity. When it has cooled, I remove the three boards from the vise and voila, cast weight for a hopper car! Actually I cut several cavities in the same 1x3 so that I have a few weights cooling at once. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mont Switzer I still don't have a "pat system" for weighting open top cars. Mont Switzer
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Re: N&W G4 vs. CNJ rebuilt WE gondola
proto48er
Pieter -
I am an "O" scaler. I did the drawings for these cars for Pacific Limited, an "O" scale importer, about ten years ago, and they were imported from Korea in 2000. At that time, we could not find any photos of CNJ/RDG cars as composite cars. Furthermore, the CNJ/CRP cars had a cubic capacity which indicated they were ALL STEEL very early - (by 1944?) - so I am not convinced that all were really composite cars - maybe only a few were! That was a pre-internet, simpler time, and that does not mean that the photos of composite cars are not out there somewhere! I do recall a photo of a steel conversion of the CNJ gon having (a) an extra plate at the far ends of each side (the plate goes from the bolster to the end of the side, and covers up the "open" area below the 4" X 4" angle in the open air below the floor) and (b) ends with THREE Y-shaped panels in them. That being said, the N&W cars were UNIQUE among 52'-6" composite war emergency gons in having only TWO Y-shaped panels in each drop end! No other cars had these N&W style drop ends. Also, only the CNJ/RDG cars had the little rectangular plates at the bottoms of the sides. All other cars of this type had an opening from the bolster to the end sill under the floor angle. Some of the N&W cars, as built, had four side boards in each side; some had five. All other cars built to that plan had five boards, except LV, which had four also. This makes a difference in the rivet pattern on the side braces. I cannot tell from the Crier Gray website which one they modeled! CNJ/CRP cars probably had the five- board configuration, if they started out as composite cars. A prototype photo of the CNJ/CRP/RDG cars would help! A.T. Kott --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pieter_roos" <pieter_roos@...> wrote: instead of painted black but unlettered model. BTW, it's S scale, so options
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Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons
Tony Higgins
Ray,
FWIW, there was an L&N 42' 9-panel gondola, series 50000-56499, built by Pressed Steel in the late 20s. ORER shows 4300 of these in 1955. Both this and the NC&StL cars have the same width and height to within an inch and lengths to within a foot. There is a picture from UofL archives showing the four center stakes extending slightly below the straight bottom edge of the side. These were built as drop bottom cars. Regards, Tony Higgins --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote: pattern he's currently working on. It's the GB-12 class, 44000-44499 series, which were 9 panel cars built by P-S in 1949. He's found a series of Monon cars that are very similar (3001-3300, P-S built in 1948. The ends are different), and he's wondering if there were any other close matches out there. If any of you know of any decent matches, now's the time to speak up! vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
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Re: Coins as car weights
bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
Tony,
For maybe for the first time in the few years I have followed this list a topic has appeared that I am actually quite knowledgeable about and that is health and safety. "Lead vapor", fumes, or dusts are actually the most dangerous route of entry (inhalation) for lead. It gets into the blood stream quite quickly and completely through the lungs. Ingestion (eating or through the mouth) is usually a secondary route of exposure for adults and less of the product is absorbed into the blood stream. Ingestion is the primary route of exposure for children whose "safe" exposure levels are about 1/5 that of an adult when using blood lead levels to measure exposure. Children are much more susceptible to lead exposure as it can effect brain development (it doesn't take much). Adult's brains are pretty much developed so on average they can tolerate higher levels of exposure without negative affect to the brain, but then the issue becomes other organs. Target organs in adults include: Eyes, gastrointestinal tract, central nervous system, kidneys, blood, and gingival tissue. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0368.html is the pocket guide page from NIOSH and gives general information about exposure levels for adults. Translating the numbers, I personally might melt lead outside, keeping my face away from the "pot" most of the time and staying up wind. And I would only do it on very limited occasions as over time blood lead levels can reduce without repeated exposures. When handling lead sheets as I do at the modeling work bench, I make it a habit to wash my hands just after handling leada to reduce the chance of ingestion. I agree a certain amount of "care is needed" but that includes vapors and dusts. Regards, Bruce D. Griffin, MSOS, CSP --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote: your poisoning.scientific knowledge. However, my father used to melt lead tire and may get it into your mouth or nose. I'd worry about that part, notcan treat it cavalierly. Care is needed.not have been TOO bad for him <meant in jest, of course>.
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Re: hopper loads
Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
Coke was a byproduct of the manufactured gas process,and as this process evolved, the coke was, in-turn, burned to create additional forms of manufactured gas. Beginning in the early 20th century, large volumes of coke were produced in specialized by-product coking ovens close by (or a part of) integrated steel mills.
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Coke was used as the basic fuel in blast furnaces, along with iron ore and limestone, in the manufacture of molten iron. Coke ovens essentially baked bituminous coal in an oxygen free environment at high temps (~1800- 2200 degrees F.) depending on it's end use, for a period of 16-22 hours. While baking, coal released large amounts of impure gas which was routed to a by-products plant where it was refined into useable chemicals (benzene, ammonium sulfate, etc.), ammonia liquor and coal tar was separated out. The clean gas was rerouted to heat the coke ovens and blast furnaces, or to private manufactured gas companies for sale to consumers. Once cooked, the white-hot coke was pushed from the oven into a "hot car" was quenched under a water spray, then dumped into a coal wharf where it continued to cool. A conveyer would move the coke up into a screening plant where it was separated by size, or to a crusher for additional sizing. From the oven, coke ranged in size from 3- inch pieces to 8-10 -inch chunks. . The coke plant (where I worked one summer back in the mid 50s) produced up to 2.5 M tons of coke/year in the 40s and early 50s. Some went to a nearby blast furnace, some to Boston Gas Co. for gas manufacturing, some home heating fuel, and after WWII, coke was exported to Europe. Two solid coke trains per day shipped out over both the Boston and Albany (~50 cars) and Boston and Maine (~25 cars). Coke weighs considerably less than coal, so a coke loaded standard hopper car carried no where near its maximum weight. In general, specialized high-sided hopper cars were used in dedicated coke service between coke plants and the user mills. One of the most familiar is the Pennsy H22 made by Bowser. I believe the so-called rust belt saw much coke traffic, probably in any open topped car available when the mills were in full operation. Regards, Norm Larkin
----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: hopper loads --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote: > Coke is flat black to dark gray in color. How about particle size? Was there much coke being shipped? I recall it was a byproduct of illuminating gas and some utilities burned coke in special plants. Ed
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Re: hopper loads
CJ Riley
--- Bob Karig <karig@sprintmail.com> wrote:
I don't know about anthracite, but many hopper loads of bituminous that I saw were shiny. Coke was pretty dull. CJ Riley ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
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Re: Freight Car Music
Paul Hillman
A few years ago Merle Haggard released a great railroad album, "My Love Affair with Trains", all original songs and from the steam era.
Included are songs; "I won't Give Up My Train", about an engineer, "My Love Affair with Trains", written by Dolly Parton, "Where have all the Hobos gone", "The Miners Silver Ghost", and many others. Great STMFC era music. Anyone heard it besides me? Paul Hillman
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N&W G4 vs. CNJ rebuilt WE gondola
Pieter Roos
Hi all;
I'm planning on acquiring the Cryer Gray Foundry N&W G4 model as a re-built CNJ war emergency gondola. Does anyone see major differences between the N&W model and the CNJ version? Or, for that matter, anything different from any other railroad's rebuilding, except the Rock Island's corrugated panels? http://www.cryergrayfoundry.com/projects/G4-gondola_home.shtml If there are things that need changing I may get the unpainted instead of painted black but unlettered model. BTW, it's S scale, so options like Tichy or F&C versions don't work! :~{ Thanks in advance for the advice. Pieter Roos
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Re: Tim Gilbert
Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
Mike Brock wrote:
A quick search shows that Tim's last STMFC post was #63014 on 5/26/07. Twenty five days later, he's gone - and at only 66. A blunt reminder of the impermanence of human life, especially to those of us already well past that age. Thanks, Tim, for sharing. Tom Madden
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Re: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights.
Peter J. McClosky <pmcclosky@...>
Hello Philip,
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There are 624 1/4 oz weights in the 1/4 oz box, and 360 in the 1/2 oz box. I paid about $94.00 (total) for the box of 1/4 oz weights and the other box of 1/2 oz weights. The 1/4 oz weights come in at about $0.08 apiece (or $0.32 per ounce) and the 1/2 oz weights cost about $0.15 apiece (or $0.30 per ounce). I know this is more than pennies cost, but they are much denser, and are easier to work with. I have also use lead shot from a metal store. These are about 1/8 inch in diameter. When used on a car, they are not nearly as dense (a lot of empty space between pellets) as the solid lead. I like the "denseness" of the solid lead, as it lowers the center of gravity of the car. Peter J. McClosky ======
Philip Dove wrote: <>Peter
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Re: FEC's "Car Ferry Company" reefers purchased by FGE
sevanwinter
The Florida East Coast Car Ferry Company (FECCFC), was an FEC sister
company and the predecessor to the West India Fruit & Steamship Company, ran a railroad car ferry service from Key West to Havana, Cuba from 1914 through the demise of the Key West Extension in the Labor Day, 1935 hurricane. Except for a brief surge of construction materials transhipped from Key West during the mid-1920's Florida land boom, Key West Extension freight traffic was principally due to the railroad car ferry. The FECCFC had three nearly identical car ferry boats, all built by the William Cramp shipyards in Philadelphia: the Henry M. Flagler (built 1914), the Joseph R. Parrott (built 1916), and the Estrada Palma (built 1920.) Plans for the boats may be obtained from: From 1921 through 1936 the FECCFC owned a 500 car lot of USRA design double sheathed ventilated boxcars. These were leased throughout the entire period to the Florida East Coast Railway Company, FEC car numbers 17001-17500. This is the Westerfield Car At the demise of the Extension, the car ferry service was transferred to Port Everglades, just south of Ft. Lauderdale. The FECCFC ferry service continued there until interrupted in 1942 by World War II. During 1942 all three boats became USN mine layers, the Keokuk, Shawmut and Weehawken respectively. In 1948, ferry service resumed from the Port of Palm Beach under the successor West India Fruit & Steamship Company. The Henry M. Flagler and the Joseph R. Parrott began the service. ( The Estrada Palma was sunk in the Caribbean during the war.) Additional boats (City of Havanna, City of New Orleans, Grand Haven, New Grand Haven, Sea Level) were subsequently added. Shane
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Re: hopper loads
tbarney2004
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:
In the vicinity of steel mills, unless produced on site, there would be a lot inbound, as it (is/was) heavily used in steel production as fuel and source of carbon in the blast furnaces themselves. Tim Barney
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Re: hopper loads
gn3397 <heninger@...>
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@... wrote:
Yes, Mr. O'Connor, but the stockcar and boxcar don't exist yet in my era. <g>. Sincerely, Robert D. Heninger Stanley, ND
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