Date   

Re: car classes

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Greg most of the brick and tile works in Iowa produced primarily brick
and/or drain tile and building tile. Drain tile was round in various sizes
and used for sewers and for draining farm fields. Building tile was large
retangular share, larger than a brick, but smaller than a concrete block.
There were hollow and used in constructing buildings, barns, silos, corn
cribs, basements, etc. Some were glazed for a smooth shiny surface. I own a
masonary house built in 1948 entirely of clay tile block, from foundation to
rafters. It has asphalt shingles. Very, very, few tile roofs here in the
land of hail storms.

Clark has shown me interior photos of the clay tile stacked in boxcars.
There was not protective packing, no wood bracing to speak of an no crates.
Loads were simply stacked in the car and rode lose. Because of the weight,
clay tile was not stack very high. The glazing made them slippery. All part
of the reason for the damage claims.

I posted links to some photos of tile works earlier this summer. They show
stacks of drain tile and building tile.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Tony Higgins
 

Hey, that's great news! Do you know if Sunshine is taking orders for
them yet?

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

Tony Higgins <earthman92853@...> wrote:
FWIW, there was an L&N 42' 9-panel gondola, series 50000-56499,
built
by Pressed Steel in the late 20s. ORER shows 4300 of these in
1955.
Both this and the NC&StL cars have the same width and height to
within an inch and lengths to within a foot. There is a picture
from
UofL archives showing the four center stakes extending slightly
below
the straight bottom edge of the side. These were built as drop
bottom
cars.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the tip, but Frank's already done those cars for
Sunshine. He's looking for similar solid bottom gons to match the L&N
and Monon cars.

Regards,

Ray Breyer


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Lead weight

Peter Weiglin
 

Not every car that needs weight is a "house" car, capable of concealing coins, sinkers, tire weights, nuts, or "designer lead" weights.

The idea that lead shot could be glued into an underframe made me think that the smaller the shot, the more the cavity is filled.

The smallest particle would therefore be lead powder. After some searching, I found that lead powder is available, from some golf supply houses. Seems that golfers use it for weighting clubs. CA adhesive binds the powder in place between underframe beams.

Obvious warning: this is lead in its most inhalable, toxic form. Be careful, wash your hands immediately afterward, etc.

(I'd repeat the warning about not smoking, but I don't want to get political.)

Peter Weiglin
Amelia, OH


Re: Box Cars In Grain Service

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Interesting info Malcolm. On the OpSig list there has been a lot of back and
forth about whether operators needed to know what was in a car they were
delivering, ie should such info be on the waybill or switch list. Now here
you provide information about the need for a crew member to know what was
going to be placed in a car, so the crew would know which empty to select
from the yard, or which empty to leave an a given industry, indicating the
someone in the crew had to know what the car would contain.

Thanks.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Ray,

I was hoping you had found something new!

Mont Switzer

Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:
>>Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:
Ray,
I'm getting into this thread a little late. What is Monon 6001 that you mention? As far as I >>know this number was assinged to a flat car.
Oops; finger slip. Make that Monon gons 3001-3300 (page 10 in the 1948 freight car diagram book that I have)

Ray Breyer

---------------------------------
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Re: car classes

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:
I am guessing that you are talking roofing tiles? >
Greg Martin
No Drainage tile and tile building blocks.
Clark Propst


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Ray Breyer
 

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:
>>Ray,
I'm getting into this thread a little late. What is Monon 6001 that you mention? As far as I >>know this number was assinged to a flat car.
Oops; finger slip. Make that Monon gons 3001-3300 (page 10 in the 1948 freight car diagram book that I have)

Ray Breyer



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Re: Tim Gilbert Obit

Bill Jones
 

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


What book on railroad cabooses did Tim write? I searched for any
books with author = Gilbert but didn't find any caboose book.

Tim O'Connor
Tim
I did a Google search on "Tim Gilbert caboose" and found the
following
info

"The definitive reference to date is Tim Gilbert's B&M Cabooses - A
History of Devlopment & Use 1914 - 1955 (B&W, Salisbury Point
Railroad Historical Society 1999). This book contains diagrams,
photos and a complete roster, including the ex-L & NE cars."

Bill Jones
member Gateway Model RR Club,
SPH&TS & SFH&MS
mailto:bill.jones.wt@...


ADMIN: Re: Lead= TERMINATED Thread

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Peter Boylan writes:

"Lead is an environmental problem that is easily
dealt with if keeping children or adults from
ingesting it, or inhaling airborne lead dust is
your goal.
Yet, we have attacked the problem with legislation
that has catastrophic results, both monetarily and
in terms of lives lost, secondary to attempting to
exclude it totally from our lives. Unfortunately,
like so many issues that have been taken over by
zealots, little is said about it where the masses
will discover that they have been co�pted by
zealots. Politicians go along with whomsoever makes
the most noise. That is consistent with represent-
ative government."


Oooops. This message is definitely contains political views and comments. Note the STMFC rule:

"All references to politics or political views are prohibited."

I am amazed that any member would ignore or forget about this very important rule. Politics are an important aspect of American life...as is the issue of the dangers of environmental problems. But neither politics nor environmental issues are permitted on the STMFC. The reason is NOT that they are not important but, rather, because the intent of the STMFC is to focus only on steam era frt cars and their associated, approved, closely related subjects.

This subject about lead is most definitely terminated immediately. Any member that jumps into this issue is taking a very big step toward jail time.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Ray,

I'm getting into this thread a little late. What is Monon 6001 that you mention? As far as I know this number was assinged to a flat car.

Mont Switzer

Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

timboconnor@... wrote:
A good picture of one would be helpful :-)
Good point. I just created a new album for the NC&StL 44000-series gons. Once the moderators approve the images, you'll find photos of NC&StL 44275, Monon 6001, and the diagram page for these cars from the NC&StL's 1955 freight car diagram book.

Let me know offlist if you want larger images.

Ray Breyer

---------------------------------
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Re: FEC "Car Ferry Company & Help from Pennsy folks re: FGE records

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:
"Bill, You really need to talk to Ben Hom, as he has done
considerable research on FGE and the PRR."

To give credit where it's due, Bill has done far more research on FGE
than the rest of us combined!

Along with Elden's tip on the PA State Archive, I've also directed
Bill to PRRT&HS Archivist Bob Johnson off-list. The same caveat
regarding coverage applies to the Society holdings at Lewistown, but
who knows, maybe we'll get lucky!


Ben Hom


Re: Lead

Ljack70117@...
 

When I was a kid growing up and in to my 20s, We used all the things and did all the things that they tell us to day will kill us. Carbon Tech. We had it in pans in the shop and washed parts in it. Had it in fire extinguishers. Handled lead, made things from lead. Nobody got sick. Then the zealots told us we would die if we kept using it. We hadn't until then.
Now they are taking the 5 second rule from us. Remember as a kid you had a piece of candy and dropped it on the floor. You had 5 seconds to pick it up and brush it off and eat it. I can not recall how many babies that spit out their pacifiers and they fell to the floor. The mother picked them up and wiped them off on their blouse and stuck it back in the baby's mouth. Can not do it any more because the zealots have said it is a no no.
None of my brothers or sisters ate the paint off the walls. We wanted real food. Mom and dad did not have to lock up the poisonous Items because we learned what the skull and cross bones meant. Dad ran the hot water heater at 180 degrees. No one ever got burnt because we knew what Hot meant and used a a lot of cold water with it. Today you can not buy a heater that will heat over 130 degrees.
But I grew up in the steam era on the RRs. I can remember when Kansas City sent a diesel yard switcher to Topeka. We only had two shifts and she set in the engine house for the third shift. When the superintendent found out about it he blew his top and said get it back to KC where it will work three shifts. So we continued to use our 200 class 2-8-0.
Smile you are on candid camera. 8>)
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Aug 16, 2007, at 2:00 PM, cripete wrote:


Lead is an environmental problem that is easily
dealt with if keeping children or adults from
ingesting it, or inhaling airborne lead dust is
your goal.
Yet, we have attacked the problem with legislation
that has catastrophic results, both monetarily and
i


Re: Question regarding NC&StL / Monon steel gons

Ray Breyer
 

Tony Higgins <earthman92853@...> wrote:
FWIW, there was an L&N 42' 9-panel gondola, series 50000-56499, built
by Pressed Steel in the late 20s. ORER shows 4300 of these in 1955.
Both this and the NC&StL cars have the same width and height to
within an inch and lengths to within a foot. There is a picture from
UofL archives showing the four center stakes extending slightly below
the straight bottom edge of the side. These were built as drop bottom
cars.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the tip, but Frank's already done those cars for Sunshine. He's looking for similar solid bottom gons to match the L&N and Monon cars.

Regards,

Ray Breyer


---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.


Re: FEC "Car Ferry Company & Help from Pennsy folks re: FGE records

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Bill;

You really need to talk to Ben Hom, as he has done considerable research on
FGE and the PRR.



The State Archives at Harrisburg contain a lot of PRR correspondence, but not
everything. A lot was destroyed on the advent of PC; whole rooms of files in
Pgh were dumped into dumpsters. You can call them for advice, but expect you
may have to go dig, as they do not have a complete idea of what they actually
have. You may not get a lot as FGE was not the PRR, and culling may have
resulted in large gaps.



Have fun!



Elden Gatwood

PRRT&HS







________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:07 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] FEC "Car Ferry Company & Help from Pennsy folks re: FGE
records



I wanted to thank all of those who responded to my query regarding
the FEC "Car Ferry Company. I would of course still like to turn up a
photo showing an example of their reefers that were sold to FGE in
1940. Because the ACL archive in Chapel Hill was such an extensive
source of FGE material, it has dawned on me that archived material of
the other early owner railroads may contain similar files. I have
already accessed a limited amount of information from the CofG and
Southern's archives in Savannah and Kennesaw, Georgia respectively
and I have a lead on the location of the archives of the NYNH&H
railroad at the University of Connecticut and have already heard from
friends with knowledge of the B&O's company records. I also will be
following up with the Virginia State Archives where the RF&P records
are held. This archive has already yielded FGE Annual Reports from
1920 forward.

I am hoping the PRR folks on this list can guide me now regarding
that company's corporate records. Typically I have found
correspondence and reports regarding Fruit Growers Express operations
in what are titled the "President's Files" of the particular owning
railroad, although my B&O contacts have told me that these records
occur in the "Vice President's Files" in this particular case. I am
hoping the Pennsy folks on this list know if these kinds of records
have been preserved and if so, are they accessible and where? I can
do the legwork to determine if there are any FGE files within these
larger files, but I need some help knowing where to begin. Can anyone
on the list advise me?

Bill Welch


Lead

cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
 

Lead is an environmental problem that is easily
dealt with if keeping children or adults from
ingesting it, or inhaling airborne lead dust is
your goal.
Yet, we have attacked the problem with legislation
that has catastrophic results, both monetarily and
in terms of lives lost, secondary to attempting to
exclude it totally from our lives. Unfortunately,
like so many issues that have been taken over by
zealots, little is said about it where the masses
will discover that they have been coöpted by
zealots. Politicians go along with whomsoever makes
the most noise. That is consistent with represent-
ative government. Lack of dissenting voices results
in the monomanically driven types' causes - becoming
laws. See this site for tip of the iceberg:
< http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/index.htm >

Lead has been presented to the public in such away
that it has frightened millions of otherwise rational
people into somewhat mindless terror of it. I was told
at a home I visited in Monterey, where the family of
well educated academics resided, that I should
take off my shoes to come in. No holes, so I
didn't mind. However, the reason for this, it turned
out, was to keep lead from being tracked into
the home. If I was in St.Joe, or rural Galena, I
might have understood this... but Monterey! So
I visited in my clean socks, and had a good time.

The Swiss, to their credit, have told the EEC where
it could stick it's lead free product rules. For
an expanded rationale on the reasons behind the
need to eliminate the "lead-free problem" - see the
U. of Maryland's "Electronic Products and System
Center" pages on the matter (in CALGE sector).
This can be GoogledUp easily for the interested
parties, and it has an excellent summary of
the matter.
This problem has/is widely discussed in the many
places where confronting technical and
industrial solutions are found. It also will
be extremely profitable retrofitting or replacing
equipment being made useless by the problem.
Along the way lots of unnecessary expense will
be accrued, and not all of it will be monetary.
Failure in machine tool controls, for example - can
be costly but normally doesn't kill anyone.
However, even with redundancy in aircraft systems
there are technicians who believe some have failed
because of tin whisker induced problems. The
absence of public discussions of the problem is
what bothers me.
We live in a time where we have seen the
creation of large numbers of "single issue humans"
(if I may coin a phrase).These people do not respond
to any form of criticism of their creed.
As "Greens", one would expect the apostles of
wind turbine fields to respond favorably to requests
to feather their machines during the time when
passerines are using the same passes in their annual
migrations. Moving at night to lessen predation
over age old routes, they often
have chosen the places where the winds are best
for them, and wind turbines. Try bringing up
the subject at a local government meeting, when
the windmill types are there, and you will dis-
cover quickly the limits of their environmentalism.

The absence of a sense of humor, is the most
disturbing thing about these folks, regardless
of the form of their manias, for it sets apart
the civilized from the merely human. If you have
read these comments accurately, you will see that
I am not advocating introducing lead into interior
paint, children's toys, pencils, or other places
where it will contaminate what is ingested or
breathed by mammals. If you don't see that...well.
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan


Re: Tim Gilbert Obit

Tim O'Connor
 

What book on railroad cabooses did Tim write? I searched for any
books with author = Gilbert but didn't find any caboose book.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...>
Is here:
http://www.cjlucasfuneralhome.com/result.php?fullname=Timothy%20Gilbert


Re: car classes

Greg Martin
 

Clark,



I am guessing that you are talking roofing tiles? My father managed a hardware store in East Liverpool, OH for many years and he always talked of his relationship with the PRR and inbound carloadings from pipe to composition shingles as well as slate tile roofing. He reminded me that they did receive slate tiles in boxcars and he told me that these were packed in wooden crates with straw or excelsior(sp?) and?in some cases shreaded paper?to protect the tiles. He said it did a a very good job regardles of how the PRR shifted the loads.



Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 5:54 am
Subject: [STMFC] car classes







Jim Singer sent me a copy of an article about a major industry where I
live. The brick and tile operation used Class D and E cars. The article
was about how they were trying to prevent damage in box cars. I have
Milwaukee damage claim reports from the mid 50s and there are plenty of
tile damage claims. One of their concerns was bowed ends. They used
straw or hay as packing, they were looking at alternatives like chip
board and palletizing when possible. I believe the article date is 54
or 55. This company shipped 5000 carloads of clay products a year from
5 Iowa plants.
Clark Propst





________________________________________________________________________
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FEC “Car Ferry Company & Help from Pennsy folks re: FGE records

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

I wanted to thank all of those who responded to my query regarding
the FEC "Car Ferry Company. I would of course still like to turn up a
photo showing an example of their reefers that were sold to FGE in
1940. Because the ACL archive in Chapel Hill was such an extensive
source of FGE material, it has dawned on me that archived material of
the other early owner railroads may contain similar files. I have
already accessed a limited amount of information from the CofG and
Southern's archives in Savannah and Kennesaw, Georgia respectively
and I have a lead on the location of the archives of the NYNH&H
railroad at the University of Connecticut and have already heard from
friends with knowledge of the B&O's company records. I also will be
following up with the Virginia State Archives where the RF&P records
are held. This archive has already yielded FGE Annual Reports from
1920 forward.

I am hoping the PRR folks on this list can guide me now regarding
that company's corporate records. Typically I have found
correspondence and reports regarding Fruit Growers Express operations
in what are titled the "President's Files" of the particular owning
railroad, although my B&O contacts have told me that these records
occur in the "Vice President's Files" in this particular case. I am
hoping the Pennsy folks on this list know if these kinds of records
have been preserved and if so, are they accessible and where? I can
do the legwork to determine if there are any FGE files within these
larger files, but I need some help knowing where to begin. Can anyone
on the list advise me?

Bill Welch


Re: stockcar (WAS: hopper) loads

Charlie Vlk
 

Recall that Keith Kohlman did a great presentation at Naperville some years ago and an article in Railroad Model Craftsman
on the Pugh Coal and Coke Works at Racine, Wisconsin. Coal was used to make coke and in the process heating and
lighting gas and bituminous by-products such as road tar.... a great industry for utilizing all sorts of interesting steam era
freight cars!!!
Charlie Vlk


Additional on coal sizes.

np328
 

Here is some additional information on coal sizes that was on the
docks in Duluth/Superior. All of this coal came off lake boats and so
these numbers could be used both in shipping loads away from the D/S
ports and again on the east end of the lakes for trains to be loaded
onto the lakers. Note the coal ranges from six inch to one inch

------------------

NP Coal - NP file 9.27 (Loc 137.F.5.8F ) Minnesota History Center

Coal Contract orders 1926-1927

Company/tons coal ordered /product description/Price-Duluth/Superior
dock
Inland Coal & Dock/65,000/6 in Resultant Island Creek Splint/$4.00
Marquette Ore Co/10,000/6 in Resultant Island Creek Splint/$4.00
Ford Motor Co. / 25,000 / 2.5 in Pond Creek Stove / $4.00
Inland Coal & Dock/50,000/2 in Resultant Island Creek Splint/$3.60
Inland Coal & Dock/25,000/2 in Resultant Island Creek Splint/$3.70
Pittsburg & Ashland C & D Co / 2 in. W. Va. and E. Kentucky Nut and
Slack/ $3.70
Great Lakes Coal & Dock / 40,000/ 2 in Fairmont Nut and Slack/$ 3.70
Pursglove Coal and Dock Co/10,000 / 2 in Pittsburg Screenings/$ 3.70
Truman H Clark Co / 10,000 / 2 in Island Creek screenings/$ 3.70
Zenith Furnace Co/ 50,000 / 2 in Coalburg Seam Nut and Slack / $ 3.70
Northwestern Fuel Co/175,000/2 in Fairmont Nut, Pea, and Slack/$ 3.70
Northwestern Fuel Co/ 25, 000 / Miller Creek Screenings / $ 3.90
Northwestern Fuel Co/ 10,000 / Pocahontas Screenings / $3.90
Northern Coal and Dock/ 25,000 / 2 in W. Virginia Splint
Screenings / $ 3.70
Philadelphia & Reading Coal and Dock/ 8,000/ 2 in Screenings/ $3.70
Carnegie Dock and Fuel Co/20,000/1.5 inch Resultant Island Creek/$3.70
Lehigh Valley Coal/15,000/1.25 inch Fairmont bar screenings/$3.70
C. Reiss Coal Co./ 25,000 / 1.25 Fairmont Slack / $3.70
Pittsburg Coal Co./ 80,000 / 1.25 Fairmont Nut and Slack / $3.70
M A Hanna Coal and Dock/30,000/W. VA. Splint Nut Pea and Slack/$3.70

Total order - 743,000 tons - of this


100,000 tons at $4.00 per ton = $400.000
75,000 tons at $ 3.60 per ton = $270,000
533,000 tons at $ 3.70 per ton = $1,972,100
35,000 tons at $ 3.90 per ton = 136,500 - for stationary power
plants

Total expense = $ 2,778,600


$ 2,778,600 / 743,000 tons = $3.7397 per ton (Average price per ton)

Jim Dick

128081 - 128100 of 193575