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CV flat car lengths

Martin McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...>
 

I've managed to run into a confusing situation with regards to the length of two classes of Central Vermont flat cars. This project started simple enough - I was going to use a Tichy flat -- then noticed the cars are stenciled "Lngth 36'-10" -- obviously shorter than the Tichy flats.

So I decided this may make a worthwhile scratchbuilding project. So I dug out more photos and my official railroad freight car data sheets. All the cars in the photos have a length of 36'-10". Adding to the confusion official paperwork lists the overall length of 37'-5" --

Is one correct and one in error? Or is it possible one is measuring the length over the strikers and the other is showing the length over the end beams?

Obviously, I'm trying to figure out where to measure the overall length from to build the model to the correct length.


Anyone run into a similar situation?

Marty


Re: CNJ war emergency 52'-6" gondolas (slight correction - see date built)

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

A. T.: There are photos in the 8/2001 Railroad Model Craftsman (CNJ 86287, 1860 cu ft stenciled; and CNJ 86212) and RMC 4/1995 (CRP 86839). They look pretty conventional.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: proto48er
To: STMFC@...

Thanks for the information. Have you ever seen a photo of one of
these cars as a composite car?

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote:

The CNJ Emergency gons were both of composite design, built by
Bethlehem Steel under Orders DF-42 (86000-86499) and DF-43
(86500-86999), completed in February and April of 1943,
respectively.


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

James D Thompson wrote:
The Atlas car is basically a hybrid welded/riveted car that AC&F built
for
C&O in the early and mid-1950s. The Stewart cars were: a late-1950s
NYC
ribside triple adopted as an alternate AAR standard; the PRR-C&O-N&W
consortium car; and the AAR offset-side triple also recently done by
Accurail.

David,

I respect your knowledge of hopper cars, but are you sure about what you
stated? I just checked Al Kresse's book on C&O hopper and gondolas and
cannot find any 70-ton C&O hoppers with the longer inside length as
modeled by the Atlas Trainman series hopper. As I stated in my earlier
post the Atlas triple hopper appears closest in dimensions to the one
ACF advertised in the 1953 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. The Atlas model
represents a triple hopper that is sightly longer (IL 42'-8") than the
ones built by ACF (IL 40'-6") or Bethlehem and others (IL 40'-8"). All
have of height of 10'-8" from the top of the rail to the top of the
side.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

Greg Martin
 

Vince,

I am not sure but I believe your original post was regarding this Atlas
Trainman hopper and correct me if I am wrong...

_http://www.atlastrainman.com/HOFreight/tmho70tonhopper.htm_
(http://www.atlastrainman.com/HOFreight/tmho70tonhopper.htm)

And if we are talking about the same car I know a couple of New Haven
lurkers here in the PNW that claim that this car is a very good fit for a New Haven
Hopper that I had taken photos of in Mingo Junction, Ohio in the early
1970's ( one of the two NH guys here was with me at the time) and albeit I don't
have one of the kits to measure it does look like a very good match got NH's PS
hopper and if I a not mistaken I believe they were purchased about 1953. The
NH numbers were 80000 to 80549 built by Pullman Standard and they did have
rivets on the exterior post.

What is not clear is how these cars differ from other cars on the market and
until one or both of these guys receive their cars. If it is correct and it
sure looks correct to me it will be a big plus for the NH guys, and other NH
steam era freight car.

Greg Martin






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Re: CNJ war emergency 52'-6" gondolas (slight correction - see date built)

proto48er
 

Ted -

Thanks for the information. Have you ever seen a photo of one of
these cars as a composite car? Their very early built date might
indicate that the middle group of diagonal side braces were different
from all other cars of this type, and redesigned for later cars. I
am sure that the pressed braces were all made by the same company
during the war and distributed to the various car builders awarded
construction contracts.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote:

The CNJ Emergency gons were both of composite design, built by
Bethlehem Steel under Orders DF-42 (86000-86499) and DF-43
(86500-86999), completed in February and April of 1943,
respectively.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(203) 747-0190




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

 

--- rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...> wrote:

Vince Altiere wrote:

Can anyone tell me for which railroads (esp. the
B&O ??) the Trainman
70 ton,9panel hopper is accurate for,or at least
as a stand-in??
Vince,

I purchased one last month. I am modeling one in
Southern series 70300-73749 / 281000-281299. The model
is almost a spitting image of the AAR design of the
'50s. The article, drawings and photos, which I am
using are in the December 1990 Mainline Modeler.

Rich Christie
Future "J" fan and modeler



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Re: 2D-F8 trucks

Bob Karig <karig@...>
 

Kiesel's patent was filed in 1922 and it was awarded in January 1924.

At 12:48 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
Does anyone know when Pennsy first used their 2D-F8 freight car trucks?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Can anyone tell me for which railroads (esp. the B&O ??) the Trainman
70 ton,9panel hopper is accurate for,or at least as a stand-in??
The Atlas car is basically a hybrid welded/riveted car that AC&F built for C&O in the early and mid-1950s. The Stewart cars were: a late-1950s NYC ribside triple adopted as an alternate AAR standard; the PRR-C&O-N&W consortium car; and the AAR offset-side triple also recently done by Accurail.

David Thompson


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

Vince Altiere wrote:

Tim,

As you probably know, the Accurail and Stewart triple hoppers
were
of the offset design,while the Trainman model has straight side
panels. I have searched the archives but
found no reference to this partiocular model. Can anyone else help
me??
Vince,

I had the wrong group. I and Jim Mischke discussed this model on the B&O
Yahoo Group. In my recent post on the STMFC Group I correctly
summarized the information about using these cars to model B&O Class
W-11 hopper cars. I am not sure what else you are looking for. Find the
Railway Age article and decide for yourself.

I have an Atlas model lettered for M & St. L and has the builder as ACF.
It is a model of a larger capacity stake-side, triple hopper and differs
from the other models previously available from Athearn (ex-MDC) and
Bowser (ex-Stewart).

There is a two page ad in the Car Builders Cyclopedia 19th ed. (1953)
for an ACF 70-ton, triple hopper with riveted construction with IL of
42'-8" that appears to be the closest prototype for the Atlas Trainman
model. The ad lists the dimensions for the cars and its capacity.
Unfortunately there are no photographic examples of any railroads that
purchased them. May be others can fill in that information.

This edition of the CBC also has an ad for the Press Steel Car welded
version of this hopper and there is a photo of a D&RW hopper #18950
built to this design by PSC. The inside width of the ACF car was
9'-7-3/4" and the PSC was 9'-10" so the PSC version had a slightly
larger cubic capacity of 2,785 cu. ft. compared to 2,734 cu. ft. for the
ACF version.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I imagine Vince meant Accurail and Bowser, but the issue still remains that searching for "atlas hopper", "atlas trainman", or "atlas triple" doesn't uncover the earlier archived messages discussing the Atlas Trainman 70t triple hopper mentioned by an earlier poster.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor

?????????

Stewart produced several exterior-post ("ribbed") hoppers. And
we're not talking about Accurail in any case. Bowser now owns the
Stewart product line.

As you probably know, the Accurail and Stewart triple hoppers were
of the offset design,while the
Trainman model has straight side panels. I have searched the archives but
found no reference to this particular model. Can anyone else help me??
Vince Altiere
----- Original Message -----


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

SUVCWORR@...
 

According to Atlas site the 9 panel 70t AAR open top hopper is a reccomended
AAR practice from the 1930's which "fell out of favor by the 1950's"

Rich Orr


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Re: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights.

Charles Morrill
 

I've had the same experience with this "Myth" --- at least the Goo version. I had a HO plastic flat car which took on a very "John Allen" shape due to the contact cement holding the wood lumber load to the deck. Eventually the Kadee couplers were aimed so far skyward that they would not couple with any other car. Then there were the passenger car plastic diaphragm striker plates that were taking the shape of a horizontal U because of the ever shrinking string of Goo used to attach them to the diaphragm. None of these examples happened within a few days or even months of the Goo being used in the assembly. It took a few years.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
Denny, you make this statement ASSUMING contact cement was
applied "properly," though no one really knows how long to let solvent
evaporate to be "dry enough" and in any case, if it all evaporates, it
isn't cement any longer. I submit that neither you nor anyone is
certain what "properly" means.
As I said previously, I'd be happy to show you some Athearn
box car floors which took years to warp with "contact" Goo. "Myth," my
behind.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights.

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Just to add fuel, what about water based contact cements. There are a few out there or at least there used to be.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

steel77086@...
 

Bob,

Thanks for the info. You have been very helpful.

Vince A.



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Re: Stick on weights. Was Coins as car weights.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Denny Anspach replied to:

...it's way neater than any contact cement and doesn't leach or off-gas fumes and warp car bodies years later.
The latter statement re: contact cement is un substantiated urban myth throughout and should be firmly retired- forever.
Denny, you make this statement ASSUMING contact cement was applied "properly," though no one really knows how long to let solvent evaporate to be "dry enough" and in any case, if it all evaporates, it isn't cement any longer. I submit that neither you nor anyone is certain what "properly" means.
As I said previously, I'd be happy to show you some Athearn box car floors which took years to warp with "contact" Goo. "Myth," my behind.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

steel77086@...
 

Tim,

Sorry for my error. I forgot about the Bowser/Stewart strait side
hoppers. Anyway, I'm still trying to find find out which roads would be appropriate
for the Atlas /Trainman triple hopper.

Vince Altiere



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Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

?????????

Stewart produced several exterior-post ("ribbed") hoppers. And
we're not talking about Accurail in any case. Bowser now owns the
Stewart product line.

http://www.bowser-trains.com/hocars/stew_14_panel/70%20ton%20Hoppers.htm

Tim

As you probably know, the Accurail and Stewart triple hoppers were
of the offset design,while the
Trainman model has straight side panels. I have searched the archives but
found no reference to this particular model. Can anyone else help me??
Vince Altiere


2D-F8 trucks

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Does anyone know when Pennsy first used their 2D-F8 freight car trucks?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Lead

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

The following is my experience in the use of lead and should not be
considered as more than my opinion.



A few years ago, I was responsible for running an automotive battery
manufacturing plant producing over 30,000 LEAD plate batteries per day. We
worked with lead oxide, melted and cast lead plates, and assembled them into
the batteries.



As stated, lead is only a problem if you INGEST it. As long as we kept the
dust out of the air so that it was not INGESTED by breathing and our
employees did not place their hands in their mouth or eyes to INGEST the
lead, we had no problems and we did take blood samples on a regular basis to
insure that we stayed below 50% of the OSHA limits.



We also took precautions to keep food and cigarettes out of the work area
and required employees to wash their hands before eating to avoid INGESTING
the lead on their food.



The bottom line is that it can be handled safely if you just avoid getting
it into your mouth, eyes, open wounds, and of course breathing it. To
breath it you have to generate dust (grinding, filing, sanding, sawing,
etc.) and to generate fumes you would have to be melting it.



So, use it to your advantage with simple precautions.



Oh yes, when we did have a problem, it was because someone was violating the
rules over an extended period of time and, when we discovered this through
the blood tests, we could bring it back down to normal levels by working
with the employee to identify and correct the behaviors that allowed
INGESTION of lead.



I was exposed to more lead in a day than anyone will be in a lifetime in our
hobby. I was tested and never got closer than 10% of the OSHA limits.



Handling and using lead can be very safe if you just use simple precautions
to NOT INGEST it.



Of course, everyone gets to choose what they consider safe based on their
comfort level and their personal hygiene habits which could make the use of
lead hazardous.



Allen Cain


Re: hopper loads

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

The Shadow's theme was from Omphale's Spinning Wheel by Saint Saens. - Al Westerfield

131261 - 131280 of 196818