Date   

Wooden Tank Cars

Russ Strodtz <borneo@...>
 

In 1959 Libby McNeil & Libby was still moving Cucumbers
from somewhere West of Denver to their plant at Blue
Island IL in LMTX cars.

At that time there were also still some SBIX cars moving
but I have yet to ascertain in what pattern, only see
them as empties.

Russ


Bethlehem steel gon photos

ed_mines
 

If anyone finds these photos on the web please let me know where.

Is that DVD steam era? Cars only? How much did it cost?

Ed


Re: Car movements

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car movements



----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Laughlin
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 15 December, 2006 14:14
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Car movements

Posted by: "Russell Strodtz" Malcom,

I beg to differ. In the case of an intermediate switch road they were
getting very little revenue from the movement of a "Road to Road" car.
Their profit may have been about equal to one day's per diem.
=============

I don't think you are really differing from what I said so much as
expanding on it with good info on another common situation. I was objecting
to characterizing the normal pattern of interchange operation as "frantic
movement of cars".

What you say is an example of what I meant. When I said a long way from
the interchange, I was thinking hundreds of miles, which was not applicable
if you were working for one of the Chicago switching roads. Which railroad
did you work for ? I like your brief summary of the Chicago roads.

An interesting example of a whole fleet of trains not scheduled to make
per diem was NYC's westbound fleet of Chicago interchange traffic. Most of
the trains arrived Elkhart in the evening from the east and departed for
Chicago connections in the early morning hours and were interchanged before
noon. Those schedules actually reflected time sthat traffic was ready to
move in New York and New england.

Eastbound a large part of the traffic arrived and was interchange
shortly after midnight. You'll recall the IHB pullers with a 1:30 am
cutoff. Of course we should remenber that per diem was irrelevant to a
large part of the eastbound hot traffic. That was the produce and meat
traffic which was carried almost entirely in private line cars which were on
a mileage basis, not per diem.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478



Yahoo! Groups Links


Volume 2 in Stock and Shipping

smason22000 <smason2@...>
 

Hi folks,

"Weathering Freight Cars, Volume 2" arrived on-time yesterday, and all pre-orders have been
shipped, so you should be receiving them in a few days.

As is the policy with all my DVD's, any order received before 3:00 p.m. for in-stock items, will
be mailed out that day.

Thanks as always,

Scott Mason
www.scottymason.com


Re: Car movements

Russ Strodtz <borneo@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Laughlin
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 15 December, 2006 14:14
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Car movements


Posted by: "Russell Strodtz" Malcom,

I beg to differ. In the case of an intermediate switch road they were
getting very little revenue from the movement of a "Road to Road" car.
Their profit may have been about equal to one day's per diem.
=============

I don't think you are really differing from what I said so much as
expanding on it with good info on another common situation. I was objecting
to characterizing the normal pattern of interchange operation as "frantic
movement of cars".

What you say is an example of what I meant. When I said a long way from
the interchange, I was thinking hundreds of miles, which was not applicable
if you were working for one of the Chicago switching roads. Which railroad
did you work for ? I like your brief summary of the Chicago roads.

An interesting example of a whole fleet of trains not scheduled to make
per diem was NYC's westbound fleet of Chicago interchange traffic. Most of
the trains arrived Elkhart in the evening from the east and departed for
Chicago connections in the early morning hours and were interchanged before
noon. Those schedules actually reflected time sthat traffic was ready to
move in New York and New england.

Eastbound a large part of the traffic arrived and was interchange
shortly after midnight. You'll recall the IHB pullers with a 1:30 am
cutoff. Of course we should remenber that per diem was irrelevant to a
large part of the eastbound hot traffic. That was the produce and meat
traffic which was carried almost entirely in private line cars which were on
a mileage basis, not per diem.




Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: 65 ft. gons

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Ed,

Another common load for 65' gondolas was long poles, like telephone or power poles.

On the Western Pacific, these cars were often used alongside shorter gondolas carrying coiled steel from Geneva, Utah to Pittsburg, California for U.S. Steel. The coils were only loaded over the trucks to avoid stressing the center of the car. The WP even added roofs to a couple of their 65' gondolas.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: Overland Models Tank Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks, guys!



I bought mine at the Original Whistle Stop many moons ago (actually labeled
for Brea Chemicals, which I figured I'd strip), and thought at the time that
there must've been a prototype for a car made in brass. Argh.



Valve casing-equipped aside, the remainder of the car looks like a lot of
other 8k insulated ACF cars. If I was brave....



Thanks again for the feedback!



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars



On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus.
Elden

Although I can't say the 8k ACF "hi-pressure" type car (OMI 3134)
represents an actual car, I do have a scan of SACX 687, which is
about the same size, leased to PPG Chemicals in the 1960's. So
105's of this type and general appearance did exist.
SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built for
chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves
nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s
and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe
me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K
insulated ICC-105 models.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 65 ft. gons -

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Steve;

I am not sure those photos are up on a site, but they were available (and
discussed previously on the list, I think) for a time from a historical
society in PA, and I got mine from them. John Teichmoelller recommended them
to me. They made a proprietary CD of photos taken at the Beth Steel plant in
Bethlehem, and included many shots of loaded cars.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Stull
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:39 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 65 ft. gons -



Elden;

The Bethlehem Steel site, is it
www.bethlehempaonline.com ?

Thanks for the info.

Steve M Stull
Winslow 7076

--- "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@sad01.usace.army.mil
<mailto:Elden.J.Gatwood%40sad01.usace.army.mil> > wrote:

The Bethlehem Steel photo collection is great for
this,
as they were really proud of what they could assemble
and ship.

__________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit
the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ <http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/>


Re: Overland Models Tank Cars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 21, 2007, at 8:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ed, definitely an ACF style frame. Here are my desktop
measurements with a pair of calipers as best as I can do.

Outside tank diameter 8'0"
Tank jacket length 32'7"
Tank length 33'10"
Frame length at corners 36'1"
Tim,
Following are the dimensions for the 6 PCIX cars in ACF lot 2932. It's
obvious that the model isn't based on these prototype cars. No telling
what it was based on. Next time I talk to Brian Marsh I'll ask him.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Truck centers: 31'-7 1/2"
Underframe length (over end sills): 42'-1 5/8"
Underframe width: 9'-8"
Jacket diameter: 90" (70" tank diameter plus 20" to account for 10"
cork insulation surrounding the tank)
Tank length: 37'-10 7/8"


Re: CV flat car lengths

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Marty,

Can't add much more to the information provided by Glenn, Dennis, Ted and Roger, except to confirm that in a 1947 ORER I have, the 7500 and 7700 car series were listed for interchange.

Going by the AAR descriptions and diagrams shown in the 1947 ORER, they pretty much confirm that the IL of 36'10" was the platform (deck) length, while the length of 37'5" was the dimension over the strikers for both cars. The 7500's were rated for 70000 lbs, the 7700's for 100000 lbs.

Dick

On Aug 20, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Martin McGuirk wrote:

Dick,

Specifically looking at the cars in the 5100-5105; 7518-7677; and
7700-7781 series.

Marty


Re: 65 ft. gons -

Steve Stull
 

Elden;

The Bethlehem Steel site, is it
www.bethlehempaonline.com ?

Thanks for the info.

Steve M Stull
Winslow 7076


--- "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@sad01.usace.army.mil> wrote:

The Bethlehem Steel photo collection is great for
this,
as they were really proud of what they could assemble
and ship.



____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/


Re: Overland Models Tank Cars

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Thanks Richard. I thought the Pennzoil car was too good to be true.

Tim, the ad was on the back cover of a RMJ, '93, I think. I say "labeled" because there is a picture with a caption for each. You can tell that the captions are wrong by looking at the pictures.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars


On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

> I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a
> number of tank cars:
>
> COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal
> GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal
> SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal
> USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
> uninsulated
> GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
> clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
> DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
> 8,000 gal w/platform
> PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
> DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
>
> Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car?
> When was it in service?

General Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage
are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes,
often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the
Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of
documentary evidence.

I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on
which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however
(California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals
for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct).

The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of
the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter
demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of
course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers.

SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a
photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately
the model represents this prototype.

> USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
> uninsulated

The cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s.

> GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
> clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
> DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
> 8,000 gal w/platform

Photo of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC.

> PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
> DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome

The model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the
late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The
larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from
a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original
center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated
and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX
2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co.
for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early
'30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC.
The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable
fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its
tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the
depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca.
1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and
none of those were insulated.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: CV flat car lengths

cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
 

Thanks to all for the answers -- that's why you're such a great bunch of boz . . . uh . . .
"nitpickers" . . . .

Seriously, thanks for the help!

Dennis, unfortunately I don't have any complete OERs -- only photocopied pages -- and I
didn't use them for the information, I went with the railroad Freight Car data sheets which
only list one length.



Marty


Re: Overland Models Tank Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, definitely an ACF style frame. Here are my desktop
measurements with a pair of calipers as best as I can do.

Outside tank diameter 8'0"
Tank jacket length 32'7"
Tank length 33'10"
Frame length at corners 36'1"

I wondered why these were so cheap on Ebay... :-)

Richard,

Does the model have an ACF-style underframe? I went through all the ACF
tank car data and can find NO 8,000-gallon ICC-105s were ever built.
The closest I can find is an order of 6 cars (PCIX 100-105, lot 2932),
which were 7,350 gallons for transporting liquid carbon dioxide. I have
all the underframe and tank dimensions if it's worth checking to see if
the model could possibly be based on this series of cars.

Thirteen more 7.350-gallon ICC-105A cars were built in March 1952, PCIX
106-113 and SHPX 3732-3736, as lot 3646B. This is all I can find.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Heinz Vinegar Cars.

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

Back in March, Bruce Griffin sent the message below concerning Heinz
vinegar cars. A search showed a lot of responses, but none covered
the painting and lettering.

Heinz had a vinegar plant in Winchester, Va. I have seen a photo with
the plant in the background and there were 3 or 4 wooden tank cars on
the siding. I have one of the Overland cars, but I have no clue how it
should be painted and lettered. Does anyone know what color it was and
if decals were ever produced which would be correct for this car?

With regard to today's thread on brass tank car models, anyone
interested in the subject should go back and read message number
29762. Tim O'Connor's list with Richard Hendrickson's notes and
comments is like reading an encyclopedia.

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bdg1210" <Bruce_Griffin@...> wrote:

Group,

While watching a B&O video of movements in Ohio in the late 1950's I
saw a Heinz vinegar car on a train. The car was moving west from
Willard yard. It looked like something from the 1920's with its
multi-banded horizontal tanks on a flat car frame. Is there a model
for such a car? Was this an amonoly in the 1950's?

Bruce D. Griffin
Summerfield, NC


Re: Calling Charley Slater

charles slater
 

Bill its; cslater@bak.rr.com or atsfcondr42@hotmail.com see you in October
Charlie

From: "lnbill" <bwelch@uucf.org>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Calling Charley Slater
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:54:39 -0000

I need to send something to ATSF modeler Charley Slater. I looked
through the membership list and did not see his name but could have
missed him. Can someone send me his email address. My address is
bwelch@uucf.org

Bill Welch
_________________________________________________________________
A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us


Re: Overland Models Tank Cars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 21, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built for
chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves
nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s
and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe
me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K
insulated ICC-105 models.

Richard Hendrickson
Richard,
Does the model have an ACF-style underframe? I went through all the ACF
tank car data and can find NO 8,000-gallon ICC-105s were ever built.
The closest I can find is an order of 6 cars (PCIX 100-105, lot 2932),
which were 7,350 gallons for transporting liquid carbon dioxide. I have
all the underframe and tank dimensions if it's worth checking to see if
the model could possible be based on this series of cars.

Thirteen more 7.350-gallon ICC-105A cars were built in March 1952, PCIX
106-113 and SHPX 3732-3736, as lot 3646B. This is all I can find.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Pratt vs. Howe boxcar trusses

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Miller wrote:
. . . if the primary concern with a Howe truss diagonal is buckling (in compression, buckling occurs far before outright material failure), then it should be much less of a problem in a car side than in a bridge, because the car side has all the sheathing attached to the ribs, including the diagonals, and this is a substantial deterrent to buckling, at least in the plane of the car side.
This is exactly right. But the early truss-frame, single-sheath cars were explicitly designed WITHOUT letting the truss sides do any work, and the underframe was beefy enough to carry all the load. This is partly true even as late as the USRA single-sheath cars, whose underframe is substantially overdesigned if the car side trusses were credited as carrying much load.
This VERY conservative approach was decried by those who wished to greatly reduce car weight, in part by reducing underframe sections, and by the first ARA underframes of the early 1920s, that's exactly what happened. Obviously any later car DOES credit the side truss with carrying capacity.
The stouter posts in a Pratt truss help resist outward bulging, and accordingly were advocated as superior to Howe trusses for car sides. But the converse is that Pratt braces (diagonals) are relatively lighter, and those play some role in resisting torsion of the car body. I think if you read the car design literature (which was very active in the 1920s), you will see not only that car designers understood bridges perfectly well, but also that they had concerns about car frame performance which goes beyond bridge issues.
This entire matter is NOT simply understood in terms of bridges, nor of "wood vs. steel" ideas, nor of "conservatism" of railroad car designers (apparently relative to bridge designers, in some accounts).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Question about 1950s SRLX Reefers

Frank Greene
 

"rrhistorian" <rrhistorian@hotmail.com> wrote:
To broaden my original question a bit - I would also greatly
appreciate any references to works that discuss the transition from
ice to mechanical reefers in terms of both design and operation. I am
not interested in this for modeling purposes, but to better understand
the significance of preserved cars.
Tom, I can recommend:

"Pacific Fruit Express" <http://www.signaturepress.com/pfe2.html>.

"Burlington Bulletin" No. 12 <http://www.burlingtonroute.com/costore/bb.htm>.

I'm sure there are additional sources, but these will keep you in reading material that lasts a while.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: Overland Models Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus.
Elden

Although I can't say the 8k ACF "hi-pressure" type car (OMI 3134)
represents an actual car, I do have a scan of SACX 687, which is
about the same size, leased to PPG Chemicals in the 1960's. So
105's of this type and general appearance did exist.
SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built for
chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves
nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s
and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe
me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K
insulated ICC-105 models.

Richard Hendrickson

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