Date   

DS/SS split, April 1949; PRR & NYC

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the numbers and percentages of double sheathed, single
sheathed, and steel box and auto cars for the PRR and NYC, April 1949
and July 1950.

1949
PRR_____%____Number
DS_____0.0%____0
SS_____11.3%____8,255
Steel_____88.7%____64,559
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____72,814
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____72,814

1950
PRR_____%____Number
DS_____0.0%____0
SS_____9.9%____6,489
Steel_____90.1%____59,156
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____65,645
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____65,645

The Pennsy lost over 7,000 cars between the two dates, nearly 10% of
its box and auto fleet. While single sheathed cars were trimmed by
over 1,700, most of the loss occurred among some of its aging steel
sided cars. An examination of the individual records shows that the
X25/X25a,b,c,d classes went from 11,156 to 5,804 cars and that the
X29/X29a,b classes declined from 27,890 to 25,325 between 1949 and
1950.

By way of contrast, the NYC changed hardly at all:
1949
NYC_____%____Number
DS_____1.3%____855
SS_____0.7%____456
Steel_____97.9%____62,851
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____64,162
Unknown_____0.0%____11
Total_____100.0%____64,173

1950
NYC_____%____Number
DS_____0.7%____475
SS_____0.6%____381
Steel_____98.7%____63,295
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____64,151
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____64,151

While its DS fleet was nearly cut in half, they didn't have many in
1949 anyway (as a proportion of their fleet).

Note that the above statistics are for cars with NYC reporting marks
only; other parts of the NYC System (CCC&STL, NOR, P&E, MC, CASO,
B&A) are excluded.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Freight car condition in the 50's; weathering

Philip Dove <philip.dove@...>
 

Walter,
I found your response to Elden Gatwoods piece about the state of freight cars interesting. You saw it as saying cars should all be heavily weathered, I had read it as saying, most cars were not very beat up, although none looked immaculate. So I re read the posting, what I now see is that Elden is saying is that in 1956 there was great variety in the degree of weathering visible on cars. I guess (always a dangerous thing to do) that the Gondolas paint loss had been exacerbated by carrying steel hot enough to damage the adhesion and integrity of the paintwork. Hitting the sides with the load when they were being lifted in and out wouldn't help. the slightest touch from a few tons of swinging steel would dent the side.
To make a model of a beaten up gondola has anyone ever tried making the bracing and framework out of metal or plastic, sheathing it with heavy paper then letting the paper get wet? The theory sounds OK.
Philip Dove

] Re: Freight car condition in the 50's; weathering


<Snip everything else out>
> Hope you can find some new inspiration, too!
>
>
>
> Elden Gatwood

Elden, you are so right. We all get into habits, and every now and
then need to get bumped out of our ruts. I love the color photos in
Ted's 2006 Calendar, and those from the OWI photos in World War II,
because they show we are much to gentle and mild in most of our
weathering. Unless you would take a photo with you to your club, if
you showed up with a car that matched the dirt and grime in the photos
from that era the others would laugh you out of the club, telling you
the cars never got that dirty.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Riverside, California


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949

Larry Kline
 

Dave Smith asked:
I'm interested by the significantly higher percentage of DS cars that
went out of service, compared to their SS kin. Is there a reason why
this would be occurring at this time?

I suspect that most of the DS cars were older than the SS cars and
were retired for that reason. Some SS cars were built after WWI but
most new composite box cars built during the 1920's and 1930's were
SS cars.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Freight car condition in the 50's; weathering

Schuyler Larrabee
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@...> wrote:

Eldon,

You have inspired me to try something. Yes, I have developed a
"pattern" to weathering that causes all my cars to look more or less
alike. So have several other members of my club. What I am going to
propose is that several of the club members who do good weathering
jobs
swap virgin cars and weather each other's cars. That way we get to
incorporate into our personal fleets the different weathering patterns
each has developed.


regards,

Andy Miller
Andy, you're on.

SGL


Re: 65 ft. gons

Larry Kline
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The issue of side posts has already been dealt with; of course, the
cars had to have side posts, but in this instance they were concealed
between the inner and outer sheathing.

Richard meant that the side posts were concealed behind the outer
sheathing. There was no inner sheathing on the W&LE inside out gons.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Freight car condition in the 50's; weathering

Walter M. Clark
 

<Snip everything else out>
Hope you can find some new inspiration, too!



Elden Gatwood

Elden, you are so right. We all get into habits, and every now and
then need to get bumped out of our ruts. I love the color photos in
Ted's 2006 Calendar, and those from the OWI photos in World War II,
because they show we are much to gentle and mild in most of our
weathering. Unless you would take a photo with you to your club, if
you showed up with a car that matched the dirt and grime in the photos
from that era the others would laugh you out of the club, telling you
the cars never got that dirty.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Riverside, California


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

Larry,

During 1949, the Wabash scrapped 764 USRA DS cars, 527 of them
between April and the end of the year. The total number of USRA DS
cars scrapped by the Wabash between March 1945 and December 1949 was
2305 cars.

Chet French
Dixon, IL



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

Hi Folks

I recently acquired an April 1949 ORER and entered some of the data
from all of the box, auto and ventilator records into an Excel
spreadsheet. This was a relatively quick process, as I merely
modified the July 1950 ORER Excel spreadsheet I created earlier
this
year (available for download at the STEFA site). The 1950
spreadsheet contained the type of siding for each car series, in
addition to dimensional data from the ORER, and nearly all of this
carried over to the 1949 spreadsheet. This makes it possible to
begin to trace the ratios of double sheathed, single sheathed, and
steel box/auto/ventilator cars as they change over time. Here is a
comparison, 1949 and 1950, of cars in interchange service on U.S.
Class 1 railroads .


April 1949 ORER
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____11.3%____82,628
SS_____23.8%____173,590
Steel_____63.9%____466,089
Other_____0.8%____5,574
Known_____99.8%____727,881
Unknown_____0.2%____1,558
Total_____100.0%____729,439

July 1950 ORER
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____9.2%____65,466
SS_____22.9%____162,358
Steel_____67.1%____475,496
Other_____0.7%____4,783
Known_____99.9%____708,103
Unknown_____0.1%____683
Total_____100.0%____708,786


As can be seen, there was a loss of over 20,000 cars from April
1949
to July 1950. Double sheathed cars declined by over 17,000; single
sheathed declined by over 11,000; and steel sided cars increased by
about 9,000.

As time permits, I'll submit comparison tables similar to the above
for individual railroads.

I wish to thank all the members of this list who were so helpful
last
February and March in identifying the siding type for many of the
car
series in the 1950 ORER. Your efforts helped identify most of the
1949 series as well.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949

David Smith
 

I'm interested by the significantly higher percentage of DS cars that went
out of service, compared to their SS kin. Is there a reason why this would
be occurring at this time?

Dave Smith

On 8/24/07, laramielarry <ostresh@uwyo.edu> wrote:

Hi Folks

I recently acquired an April 1949 ORER and entered some of the data
from all of the box, auto and ventilator records into an Excel
spreadsheet. This was a relatively quick process, as I merely
modified the July 1950 ORER Excel spreadsheet I created earlier this
year (available for download at the STEFA site). The 1950
spreadsheet contained the type of siding for each car series, in
addition to dimensional data from the ORER, and nearly all of this
carried over to the 1949 spreadsheet. This makes it possible to
begin to trace the ratios of double sheathed, single sheathed, and
steel box/auto/ventilator cars as they change over time. Here is a
comparison, 1949 and 1950, of cars in interchange service on U.S.
Class 1 railroads .

April 1949 ORER
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____11.3%____82,628
SS_____23.8%____173,590
Steel_____63.9%____466,089
Other_____0.8%____5,574
Known_____99.8%____727,881
Unknown_____0.2%____1,558
Total_____100.0%____729,439

July 1950 ORER
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____9.2%____65,466
SS_____22.9%____162,358
Steel_____67.1%____475,496
Other_____0.7%____4,783
Known_____99.9%____708,103
Unknown_____0.1%____683
Total_____100.0%____708,786

As can be seen, there was a loss of over 20,000 cars from April 1949
to July 1950. Double sheathed cars declined by over 17,000; single
sheathed declined by over 11,000; and steel sided cars increased by
about 9,000.

As time permits, I'll submit comparison tables similar to the above
for individual railroads.

I wish to thank all the members of this list who were so helpful last
February and March in identifying the siding type for many of the car
series in the 1950 ORER. Your efforts helped identify most of the
1949 series as well.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


--
David L. Smith
Da Vinci Science Center
Allentown, PA
http://www.davinci-center.org


Re: 65 ft. gons

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 23, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Dean Payne wrote:

Of great interest to me is the fact that the W&LE gons had no real
exterior bracing, either! They were built by the Canton Car Company
in September of 1932 (yes, the depths of the depression). They were
"almost two feet narrower than a conventional 48- or 52-feet long
gondola", to prevent "excessive swing-out of the corners on
tight-clearance industrial trackage..."
The issue of side posts has already been dealt with; of course, the
cars had to have side posts, but in this instance they were concealed
between the inner and outer sheathing. As for preventing "excessive
swing-out of the corners," etc. I've seen this written elsewhere with
regard to the narrow width of 65' mill gons but it is total nonsense.
The issue wasn't swing out of the corners, it was the fact that the
long bodies would overhang the rails excessively at the center on tight
radius curves, often to a point that would exceed clearance limits.
For this reason some switching RRs with sharp curves would not accept
long gons in interchange, or would accept them only contingent on
advance notice and restricted routing.

Richard Hendrickson


DS/SS split, April 1949

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

I recently acquired an April 1949 ORER and entered some of the data
from all of the box, auto and ventilator records into an Excel
spreadsheet. This was a relatively quick process, as I merely
modified the July 1950 ORER Excel spreadsheet I created earlier this
year (available for download at the STEFA site). The 1950
spreadsheet contained the type of siding for each car series, in
addition to dimensional data from the ORER, and nearly all of this
carried over to the 1949 spreadsheet. This makes it possible to
begin to trace the ratios of double sheathed, single sheathed, and
steel box/auto/ventilator cars as they change over time. Here is a
comparison, 1949 and 1950, of cars in interchange service on U.S.
Class 1 railroads .


April 1949 ORER
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____11.3%____82,628
SS_____23.8%____173,590
Steel_____63.9%____466,089
Other_____0.8%____5,574
Known_____99.8%____727,881
Unknown_____0.2%____1,558
Total_____100.0%____729,439

July 1950 ORER
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____9.2%____65,466
SS_____22.9%____162,358
Steel_____67.1%____475,496
Other_____0.7%____4,783
Known_____99.9%____708,103
Unknown_____0.1%____683
Total_____100.0%____708,786


As can be seen, there was a loss of over 20,000 cars from April 1949
to July 1950. Double sheathed cars declined by over 17,000; single
sheathed declined by over 11,000; and steel sided cars increased by
about 9,000.

As time permits, I'll submit comparison tables similar to the above
for individual railroads.

I wish to thank all the members of this list who were so helpful last
February and March in identifying the siding type for many of the car
series in the 1950 ORER. Your efforts helped identify most of the
1949 series as well.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: 65 ft. gons

Larry Kline
 

A.T. Kott asked:
Larry - Have you built one of Nickel Plate Models' WLE mill gons?
[snip] and What did you think of the kit - side profile in particular?

I have one of the kits but I haven't built it. I haven't looked
carefully at the kit. What do you think of the side profile? As the
supplement to the instructions says, the interior side stakes will
have to be scratchbuilt.

Satn Rydarowicz has an HO model of one of these cars. I think he
built it using an Eastern Car Works kit.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Joel Norman and Jim Boyd

jim peters
 

Gentlemen,

Looking for Joel Norman. Joel wrote an article that appeared in the Aug'79 issue of Prototype Modeler. I would like to contact him about using a couple of his photographs for a detailed study I'm working on of the steam and transition era boxcars in M�xico.

Also looking for Jim Boyd, he too published an article in the May'74 issue of the Craftsman. I would like to include a couple of his photos in the same study.

Any one knowing either of these gentlemen, please pass my request to them and my e-mail address. Off list I will also provide my "Snail-mail" address and phone number if required.

Many thanks,

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

_________________________________________________________________
Show Your Messenger Buddies How You Really Feel http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122


Re: 65 ft. gons

proto48er
 

Larry -

Have you built one of Nickel Plate Models' WLE mill gons? I hope to
start the "O" scale kit soon. Back in the late 1960's, when Craig's
one-page article appeared in RMC, I built 3 cars to that plan out of
brass shimstock. The rivets I used were too large, so I sold them and
am going with the NKP Models car instead. What did you think of the
kit - side profile in particular?

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:

I just posted a drawing in the files section with some notes and
sketches added to Craig Bossler's cross section drawings. The notes
and sketches are intended to clarify what the interior side stakes
looked like on these cars. The file name is: _W&LE inside-out gon
xsect notes.jpg_

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Paging Dave Nelson

Shawn Beckert
 

Dave,

Give me a buzz when you get a chance.

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Re: Advice on ATSF 190019

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 24, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

Another box car I would love to hear your insights on is ATSF 190019,
stated
as a rebuild of a USRA DS car.

Is this car made as a kit by Sunshine?

What kind of trucks did these guys have? They look like some kind of
Andrews
type (well, one with the bottom retainers for the bearing housings,
anyhow).

Roofwalk?

When was the "Grand Canyon..." logo applied?

Are there any things I should know that I haven't asked?
Yes; ATSF 190019 wasn't a revenue service car and would not have gone
off line, as cars numbered in the 190000 series were MW cars. I can
answer the rest of your questions, but it seems pointless. OTOH, if
you would like photos of a Bx-36 that was in service in the 1950s, I
have a number of those and can scan a couple of good examples for you.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Advice on ATSF 190019

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:
"Another box car I would love to hear your insights on is ATSF
190019, stated as a rebuild of a USRA DS car."

That car number doesn't fall within any of the rebuilt USRA DS car
number series:

ATSF 138500-138699, Class Bx-28, 10' IH, 2/5/5/5 Murphy Ends, 10
panel sides.

ATSF 148000-148199, Class Bx-31, 10' IH, 2/5/5/5 Murphy Ends, 10
panel sides; 37000-37024 (25 cars) modified to carry Chrysler axles
(relettered without map).

ATSF 148200-148399, Class Bx-32, 10'4" IH, 2/5/5/5 Murphy Ends, 10
panel sides.

ATSF 145000-145499, Class Bx-33, 10'4" IH, 2/5/5/5 Murphy Ends, 10
panel sides.

ATSF 148400-149934, Class Bx-36, 10'4" IH, 2/5/5/5 Murphy Ends, 10
panel sides.

I'm at work right now and can't do a cross-reference of the car
number to determine what class it really is - I'll do it tonight if
Richard H. or one of the other Santa Fe mavens don't beat me to it.


"Is this car made as a kit by Sunshine?"

The Santa Fe USRA DS rebuilds were among Sunshine's earliest kits
(9.3 - 9.7, long out of production); they were re-released in 2006
from new masters (64.23 - 64.34).


"What kind of trucks did these guys have? They look like some kind
of Andrews type (well, one with the bottom retainers for the bearing
housings, anyhow)."

The USRA DS rebuilds cars reused the Andrews trucks from the
original cars. As with many other rebuilt boxcar classes on the
Santa Fe, these cars were exceptionally long-lived, with cars
surviving into the 1960s and 1970s receiving cast sideframe trucks.


"Roofwalk?"

Wood for cars as rebuilt; I'll have to check for the later survivors.


"When was the "Grand Canyon..." logo applied?"

That's another lookup for tonight.


Ben Hom


Re: 65 ft. gons

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks, Larry! Very cool car!



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Kline
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:18 AM
To: STMFC list
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 65 ft. gons



I just posted a drawing in the files section with some notes and
sketches added to Craig Bossler's cross section drawings. The notes
and sketches are intended to clarify what the interior side stakes
looked like on these cars. The file name is: _W&LE inside-out gon
xsect notes.jpg_

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Advice on ATSF 190019

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Folks;



Another box car I would love to hear your insights on is ATSF 190019, stated
as a rebuild of a USRA DS car.



Is this car made as a kit by Sunshine?



What kind of trucks did these guys have? They look like some kind of Andrews
type (well, one with the bottom retainers for the bearing housings, anyhow).



Roofwalk?



When was the "Grand Canyon..." logo applied?



Are there any things I should know that I haven't asked?



Thanks,



Elden Gatwood


car spotting on TV

ed_mines
 

Last night I saw a TV program on PBS (P.... Fight)which featured WWII
film in color. I saw part 1 only which lasted almost 2 hours. The
production date was 2002 (or 2004?, forgot which).

About 3/4 through the program a PRR GLca hopper was shown (don't blink).

It was typical freight car "pink", not the orange that is currently in
style.

The program is in "Kodachrome" color exaggerated by either the film, or
production enhancement.

My TV or the cable company (actually the old telephone company)
delivers pictures which have a lot more magenta (purple pink) than
occurs in the real world.

Ed


Re: 65 ft. gons

Larry Kline
 

I just posted a drawing in the files section with some notes and
sketches added to Craig Bossler's cross section drawings. The notes
and sketches are intended to clarify what the interior side stakes
looked like on these cars. The file name is: _W&LE inside-out gon
xsect notes.jpg_

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

126981 - 127000 of 192632