Date   

Re: Auto transporting

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Sperandeo wrote:
I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand corrected as far as 1959.
I think the 1960 date for auto racks is probably based on the Pullman-Standard flat car, designed specifically for use with racks, that was introduced that year. Earlier racks were placed on modified piggyback or container or "general-service" 85-foot flats. In my view, the racks did pre-date the specially designed flat cars and ought not to be confused with them, but of course, the introduction of such a car clearly shows that racks were a strongly emerging car type. That does make 1960 a good watershed year for rack use.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Auto transporting

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand corrected
as far as 1959. If there were auto-rack cars in 1958, can anyone say who
built them or operated them? (I wouldn't count those earlier bi-level racks
for 50-foot flatcars, since they were clearly experimental and not
repeated.)

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Auto transporting

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
Andy says that tri-levels were introduced in 1960. how does that reconcile with the initial use of multi-levels in 1958. Were the early cars all bi-levels ?
One can, of course, debate what "introduced" means. SP built tri-level racks in 1959 and I have no reason to think they built the first ones. Bi-level racks were introduced at essentially the same time and were used for pickups and vans, which were taller than automobiles.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Auto transporting

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Andy says that tri-levels were introduced in 1960. how does that reconcile with the initial use of multi-levels in 1958. Were the early cars all bi-levels ?

Another kind of car used on NYC and other roads with clearance problems was called the low tri-pack. I recall vaguely something about raisable ramps at the end.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: plastic welding cement

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I hate to make corrections to someone else's posting, but some if the materials information John gives is not correct . . .
Plexiglass is a trade name for cast acrylic sheet . . . Lexan is GE's trade name for cast polycarbonate sheet.
Thank you, Dennis. Saves me writing a blurb on this <g>. In fairness to John, many people who work with plastics do tend to lump them together, though they may be chemically and even mechanically quite different, as long as they look similar or work similarly.
As Dennis hints, to a polymer chemist the terms "styrene" or "nylon" or "ABS" are about as informative as calling a metal "steel." There are extremely many formulations of most plastics for specific uses or for cost reasons, and they are most certainly not all the same. Even Lexan is but one of a number of polycarbonates. Within a family, of course, they may cut about the same, and adhesives may work about the same--but they may not, also. Generalizing material names, as so often true in other fields, has its dangers.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q

armprem
 

Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Baker" <bakert@...> wrote:

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply
with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such
cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number
of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS
cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom
The later built GN DS cars had full steel body framing, so in that
respect were not much different from the AAR war emergency boxcars.
The "special care" was a management decision to spend more money over
the long run to periodically re-sheath cars rather than spend more
money up front for steel sheathing.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links



Pro-Weld Re: Digest Number 4811

pennsylvania1954
 

Thanks, John. I knew someone would come out bragging on Pro-Weld.
Unfortunately my LHS, which usually stocks the stuff, has been unable
to obtain it. Their supplier is Walthers, who currently lists Pro-Weld
and the 232-7000 kit as not in stock with a status of TBA, and it has
been that way at least for a couple of months. I found that it is
still listed on the Ambroid website.

Can anyone point to a source?

Thanks!

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


DS/SS split, April 1949; IC, NP, MP

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here is a comparison of double sheathed, single sheathed, and steel
box and auto cars for the IC, NP, and MP for April 1949 and July
1950. Car quantities are from the ORERs of those dates; siding type
is from other sources.


IC

April 1949
IC_____%____Number
DS_____0.7%____153
SS_____41.7%____9,026
Steel_____57.6%____12,465
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____21,644
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____21,644

July 1950
IC_____%____Number
DS_____0.3%____65
SS_____40.1%____8,362
Steel_____59.6%____12,441
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____20,868
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____20,868

The IC retired over half of its double sheathed cars between April
1949 and July 1950, but they didn't have many to begin with. A
bigger numeric loss, though less proportionally, was among the single
sheathed fleet, which was reduced by over 600. The number of steel
cars was essentially unchanged. Overall, the fleet was trimmed by
776 cars.


NP

April 1949
NP_____%____Number
DS_____38.6%____7,571
SS_____22.4%____4,389
Steel_____38.2%____7,480
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.2%____19,440
Unknown_____0.8%____157
Total_____100.0%____19,597

July 1950
NP_____%____Number
DS_____35.6%____6,957
SS_____22.4%____4,378
Steel_____41.8%____8,172
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.8%____19,507
Unknown_____0.2%____47
Total_____100.0%____19,554

The NP retired over 600 DS cars but increased the number of steel
sides by nearly 700, so that overall its total fleet was about the
same size at both dates.


April 1949
MP_____%____Number
DS_____6.4%____1,166
SS_____65.2%____11,861
Steel_____28.3%____5,156
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____18,183
Unknown_____0.0%____9
Total_____100.0%____18,192

July 1950
MP_____%____Number
DS_____5.8%____1,041
SS_____65.6%____11,828
Steel_____28.6%____5,150
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____18,019
Unknown_____0.0%____9
Total_____100.0%____18,028

The distribution of MP cars of all siding types was essentially
unchanged from 1949 to 1950. Perhaps this was related to its being
in trusteeship?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: L&N symbol

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks Bob, Frank and Tim. Tim I made a quick check of the files
section for Richard's reweigh station symbols list, but didn't see it.
Is it posted somewhere?
Clark Propst


Re: styrene shapes (was Re: plastic welding cement)

Jack Burgess
 

Tim said:

Someone said Evergreen now makes BLACK plastic, but I haven't
seen any for sale.
They do have black styrene sheets (and have had them for a couple of years).
They are listed on their site at

http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/

BTW, you can order directly from Evergreen if you set up a model builder's
account with them....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Digest Number 4811

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis Storzek wrote

Unfortunately, methylene chloride is listed by OSHA as a
potential occupational carcinogen, so it is not as readily
available as it once was.
Dennis
Home Depot carries it in gallon cans... It is listed as a
"potential" hazard although the NIH web site notes that 20%
of the production is used in the manufacture of drugs and
antibiotics -- and for TABLET COATINGS. How's that for the
potential hazard of ingesting the stuff?

Tim O'Connor


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Baker" <bakert@...> wrote:

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply
with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such
cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number
of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS
cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom
The later built GN DS cars had full steel body framing, so in that
respect were not much different from the AAR war emergency boxcars.
The "special care" was a management decision to spend more money over
the long run to periodically re-sheath cars rather than spend more
money up front for steel sheathing.

Dennis


Pro-Weld Re: Digest Number 4811

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

John

Do you know if Pro-Weld will glue styrene to PVC pipe? For instance,
can it be used to glue styrene strip to a PVC pipe to make a wooden
tank car body.

Thanks

John King


Re: Digest Number 4811

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, rgspemkt@... wrote:

In my 30+ years of professional model building (I'm not
bragging, it's just a fact) the only solvent based cement
I have ever found that will glue styrene to plastic(s), other
than itself, and also glue ABS, plex/acrylic, is . (Walthers #130-110.)

As a side note, "pure" styrene is quite brittle, so ABS?
(acronytrile butadiene styrene) is added in varying proportion
to produce "high impact styrene".

PRO-Weld has a high acetic acid content, I've spoken with the
folks at Ambroid about this, and their formulation is specifically
"designed" to bond the above materials, but also Lexan, which
has a scratch resistant coating applied over regular, GM grade
plex.

I hate to make corrections to someone else's posting, but some if the
materials information John gives is not correct:

ABS is not added to polystyrene to make it more impact resistant, but
butadiene (one component of ABS) is one of the impact modifiers used
to make High Impact Polystyrene (H.I.P.S.). Since it is difficult to
obtain a glossy surface on H.I.P.S., acrylonitrile (acrylic) is added
to improve surface gloss, yielding ABS.

Plexiglass is a trade name for cast acrylic sheet. I'm not aware of
any coated Plexiglass sheets, since Acrylic is relatively hard and
scratch resistant on it's own.

Lexan is GE's trade name for cast polycarbonate sheet. Polycarbonate
is very tough and impact resistant (think "bullet-proof" glass) but
the surface scratches easily, as was found when transit agencies
started to use it for bus and train car glazing; the rotary brush
washers quickly scuffed the surface to an opaque finish.

As a result of this, several suppliers brought out scratch resistant
glazing under the Tuff-ack and Mar-guard trade names. These sheets are
polycarbonate with a Mylar (polyester) film bonded to each surface.

All of the above resins , except the Mylar surface films, can be
solvent bonded using methylene chloride. Unfortunately, methylene
chloride is listed by OSHA as a potential occupational carcinogen, so
it is not as readily available as it once was. Ambroid's Pro-Weld
seems to be a reasonable substitute.

Dennis


Re: styrene shapes (was Re: plastic welding cement)

Tim O'Connor
 

Plastruct also has half-round, quarter-round, and triangular
shapes. Very handy stuff! They also make styrene trusses.

Someone said Evergreen now makes BLACK plastic, but I haven't
seen any for sale.

Tim O'Connor

At 8/27/2007 07:08 AM Monday, you wrote:
Plastruct does now offer a "regular" styrene segment in its line and,
in some instances, it is deeper than what Evergreen has. Styrene rod
selection is one area I seem to remember Plastruct having a much
better selection, particularly for fine diameters.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(203) 747-0190


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q

Thomas Baker
 

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom Baker

________________________________


L&N Coke Racks - 1920's

Bruce Nordstrand <brucen@...>
 

Hi all

I am after some info (if any is available) on L&N coke racks used to ship coke to midwestern steel mills. The only picture I have of them is of 3 or 4 cars sitting next to the coke ovens at Stonega tipple & ovens on the Interstate Railroad. This photo is in Ed Wolfe's book "Appalachian Coal Hauler, Interstate Railroad's Mine Runs & Coal Trains" on page 49. The shot was taken in November 1920 and is part of the Hagley Museum & Library's Westmoreland Collection. These cars look like topless stock cars with what looks like 2 doors in the sides.

I hope to kitbash a few of these if I can find out more info on them and am hoping someone on the list will be able to point me to an information source.

Thanks in advance

Cheers
Bruce Nordstrand
Sydney, Australia


Re: Digest Number 4811

John Hitzeman
 

Back in the early 80's, when I worked at Monsanto as a
petrochemical process/piping design/structural modeler, we
used methyline chloride to bond EMA/Plastruct parts (which
are high in ABS content) and would also use it to
glue up plex to plex and the EMA parts to plex, etc.

In my 30+ years of professional model building (I'm not
bragging, it's just a fact) the only solvent based cement
I have ever found that will glue styrene to plastic(s), other
than itself, and also glue ABS, plex/acrylic, is Ambroid's
Pro-Weld. (Walthers #130-110.)

As a side note, "pure" styrene is quite brittle, so ABS?
(acronytrile butadiene styrene) is added in varying proportion
to produce "high impact styrene".

PRO-Weld has a high acetic acid content, I've spoken with the
folks at Ambroid about this, and their formulation is specifically
"designed" to bond the above materials, but also Lexan, which
has a scratch resistant coating applied over regular, GM grade
plex.

When we are bonding large plex parts, we either use a syringe
and needle (point ground flat), or a brush.

When building little stuff, like adding door stops to an HO box car,
I use 'Creations Unlimited' little pipette with hypo tube, called a
'Touch-N-Flow".?Walthers carries this line also, and has a combo
pack that includes a bottle of Ambroid Pro-Weld, a small bottle
with hypo applicator and a 'Touch-N-Flow'. It is Walthers
#232-7000. The 'Touch-N-Flow' applicator is 232-711.

The other thing that's neat about Pro-Weld is using it to glue
styrene NBW's to wood. Highly evaporative, solvent based
cements "flash-off" quickly. However, they work best in an area
that is relatively "atmosphere free". So, when the need arises
to glue a NBW into a pre-drilled hole in a wood part, just
cut the NBW from its sprue, leaving the "tail" long. In other
words, cut the NBW off the main "runner" sprue.

Then put the tail end in the hole in the wood, push it all the
way in and put a drop of solvent on the wood, right next to
the casting (NBW).

The solvent will permeate into the wood, because of its relative
open grain, and begin to soften the tail of the NBW. Ultimately,
the NBW plastic will literally melt into the wood grain and when
the solvent is completely evaporated, The NBW plastic tail becomes
an almost integral part of the wood, having melted into the surrounding
wood.

Disclamer: I have no monetary or business interest(s) in any of the
above mentioned companies.


That's my two cents --- 'Hope this helps!

John







John Hitzeman
President/Owner
American Model Builders, Inc.
Now In Our 25th Year!!
LASERkit (tm)
www.rgspemkt.com
www.ambstlouis.net
www.laserkit.com




________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


Re: Auto transporting

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Ron,

It was 1960 when 85-foot trilevel auto racks were introduced, just barely
within the purview of this list. By 1960 the rails had pretty much lost the
assembled automobile business to trucks, but the rack cars enabled the
railroads to regain at least a substantial share of this traffic.

The "Model Railroader" coverage Jack B. referred to was in a pair of
Information Desk columns by Carl Swanson in the June and July issues earlier
this year. June, pages 24 and 26, described automobile boxcars, including a
diagram showing how Evans Auto-Loaders worked; July, pages 24 and 26, is
about the introduction of auto-rack cars.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here is a comparison of double sheathed, single sheathed, and steel
box and auto cars for the CNW, GN, and CB&Q for April 1949 and July
1950. Car quantities are from the ORERs of those dates; siding type
is from other sources.


CNW

April 1949
CNW_____%____Number
DS_____1.0%____223
SS_____55.8%____12,588
Steel_____43.2%____9,736
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____22,547
Unknown_____0.0%____2
Total_____100.0%____22,549

July 1950
CNW . . . . %. . .Number
DS . . . . 1.0%. . .238
SS . . . .51.7%. . .11,982
Steel. . .47.3%. . .10,967
Other. . . 0.0%. . .0
Known. . 100.0%. . .23,187
Unknown. . 0.0%. . .0
Total. . 100.0%. . .23,187

The CNW bucked the national trend of losing box and auto cars between
1949 and 1950 by gaining a few hundred. Even more unusual, it gained
15 double sheathed cars, while the rest of the industry was shedding
them in droves. (It retired 8 but added 23 AAR type XI cars; Jack
Mullen explains how these were converted from milk cars in message
#65871.) SS declined by about 600 and steel increased by over 1,200.


GN

April 1949
GN_____%____Number
DS_____70.6%____15,551
SS_____15.9%____3,495
Steel_____4.5%____1,000
Other_____9.0%____1,994
Known_____100.0%____22,040
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____22,040

July 1950
GN_____%____Number
DS_____64.2%____14,326
SS_____15.6%____3,487
Steel_____11.2%____2,499
Other_____8.9%____1,988
Known_____100.0%____22,300
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____22,300

The GN also gained cars. It retired over 1,200 double sheathed, but
added nearly 1,500 steel (an increase of 150%). Its SS fleet
remained nearly the same, as did its plywood sheathed cars ("Other"
in the table).



CB&Q

April 1949
CB&Q_____%____Number
DS_____3.6%____806
SS_____51.1%____11,514
Steel_____45.3%____10,199
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.9%____22,519
Unknown_____0.1%____12
Total_____100.0%____22,531

July 1950
CB&Q_____%____Number
DS_____1.3%____272
SS_____50.7%____10,890
Steel_____48.0%____10,305
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____21,467
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____21,467

The CB&Q retired about two-thirds of its double sheathed cars. It
also trimmed its SS fleet by over 600, while adding just over 100
steel cars. Overall, box and auto cars declined by 1,064.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

126961 - 126980 of 192720