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Re: My Errors & Omissions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Hitzeman wrote:
So, yes, 'Lexan" is a GE product, and it is polycarbonate, not acrylic, in that sense of the word. However, there are folks who will refer to "plexiglas", generically, as "lexan", too. I guess it just depends where, and who, you are.
John, sadly you're right. About like calling plexiglas "styrene," as long as it's a clear material . . . but especially on this list, we don't confuse common usage with correct usage <g>.
Let's see, there's the Bettendorf truck, and the . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


GN double sheathed boxcars

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote regarding GN's use of DS boxcars:

"Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry?"

In a word, Mr. Premo, no. I thought so too (after all, Frederick
Weyerhauser was a GN board member) but have been educated otherwise.
For whatever reason(s), GN was just a latecomer to all steel boxcars,
and throughout the steam era, built or rebuilt thousands of double
sheathed boxcars. There was no significant rebuilding of the DS fleet
to steel until 1959-1961, when several thousand of the 45000-52999
series were rebuilt. NP, in comparison, was an early user of steel
boxcars, and purchased thousands of copies of the 1937 AAR car and
derivatives, despite owning significant timberlands. So catering to
online lumber mills doesn't seem to be a factor.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


My Errors & Omissions

John Hitzeman
 

Dennis is 99.9% correct in his critique of my post. ;o)

However,?I was just trying to keep it as simple and short as possible,
so as not to "crowd" more into the list than needed.

So, I apologize for the omissions and inaccuracies on my part.
I just didn't feel it appropriate to go into all of the other info.

But, I will do so, briefly, now.

"Plexiglas" is/was the registered trade name of Rohm & Haas,
or at least it used to be -- ?? That's something else I forgot
to write previously.

Rohm?& Haas' trade name has only one "S" on the end --
Plexiglas(s) with two S's on the end is incorrect.

Some computer "spell-checkers" will try to capitalize the
"P" if you type 'plexiglas' with one "S", or if you spell it with
two S's, it will try and capitalize it, and use only?one "S".

I guess that "plexiglass" may have become the generic term
for acrylic sheet.

Also, "plexiglas" sheet is not only cast, but?can be also be extruded.

We have found that certain thickness(es) of "plex" cut better if they
are cast, and others if they are extruded, depending upon the thickness
we buy from our suppliers.

A lot of people/customers in?the commercial end of AMB,?give us that
blank look if?we say "It's made from acrylic."

It seems that they do not necessarily relate to it?---- or, the only
previous time they've heard "acrylic" is in commercials for floor polish,
or auto products.?

But, in that same commercial market, if you say,
"It's made from plex",
the greater percentage of folks seem to know
what you mean.

I mentioned working for Monsanto Company many years ago.

At that time, Monsanto was the largest manufacturer/supplier of ABS,
commercially. At least, that's what the Monsanto people told me!

I worked on several engineering jobs, with the chemical engineers,?
relative additions and modifications to?Monsanto plants producing ABS.

My statement regarding the addition of ABS to styrene was intended
to be a "blanket" one, a generalization if you will, as I am not as well
versed on the subject as?Dennis.


On another subject, about 12 years ago, we had to laser cut several
thousand small pieces of 'Lexan' (TM-GE) for a division of General Electric.

We had to make an initial cut with settings adjusted to cut through (scribe)
the coating only, as settings powerful enough to cut completely through the
material would ignite the coating -- we couldn't have that happen -- so
we would cut completely through?with several passes.

All material had to have new masking, made for laser cutting, applied
to it after the factory applied, brown paper masking was removed. This
was done before laser cutting.

This not only served to prevent ignition of the adhesive used to hold the
"brown" masking on, but it also protected the extremely "sensitive"
surface of the Lexan.

So, yes, 'Lexan" is a GE product, and it is polycarbonate, not acrylic,
in that sense of the word. However, there are folks who will
refer to "plexiglas", generically, as "lexan", too. I guess it just
depends where, and who, you are.

Once again, my apologies for previous, and future, errors and
also for expounding on a non-list related topic.

BTW - Does anyone on this list know the routing of PRR "gun flats"
(F22's, specially equipped) between the Washington Navy Yard
and the Navy Yards at Bremerton, WA and San Francisco, CA?

I asked this question on a PRR List a month ago, and it turned into
a huge thread discussing the making of the gun barrels and the
companies who were involved. 'Not one post on the routing. <G>

John


Dennis Storzek wrote:


I hate to make corrections to someone else's posting, but some if the
materials information John gives is not correct:

ABS is not added to polystyrene to make it more impact resistant, but
butadiene (one component of ABS) is one of the impact modifiers used
to make High Impact Polystyrene (H.I.P.S.). Since it is difficult to
obtain a glossy surface on H.I.P.S., acrylonitrile (acrylic) is added
to improve surface gloss, yielding ABS.

Plexiglass is a trade name for cast acrylic sheet. I'm not aware of
any coated Plexiglass sheets, since Acrylic is relatively hard and
scratch resistant on it's own.

Lexan is GE's trade name for cast polycarbonate sheet. Polycarbonate
is very tough and impact resistant (think "bullet-proof" glass) but
the surface scratches easily, as was found when transit agencies
started to use it for bus and train car glazing; the rotary brush
washers quickly scuffed the surface to an opaque finish.

As a result of this, several suppliers brought out scratch resistant
glazing under the Tuff-ack and Mar-guard trade names. These sheets are
polycarbonate with a Mylar (polyester) film bonded to each surface.

All of the above resins , except the Mylar surface films, can be
solvent bonded using methylene chloride. Unfortunately, methylene
chloride is listed by OSHA as a potential occupational carcinogen, so
it is not as readily available as it once was. Ambroid's Pro-Weld
seems to be a reasonable substitute.

















John Hitzeman
President/Owner
American Model Builders, Inc.
Now In Our 25th Year!!
LASERkit (tm)
www.rgspemkt.com
www.ambstlouis.net
www.laserkit.com






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Re: Auto transporting

Thomas Baker
 

________________________________


IN the late Fifties, Lionel came out with a 40-foot double decked auto carrier. Lionel, of course, has historically hardly been a source for prototype accuracy. Yet I wonder whether this car had some foundation in what was actually an early version of a double-decked auto carrier. Anyone know?

Tom Baker
bakert@andrews.edu


Re: Auto transporting

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
When you're talking about racks it is necessary to distinguish between the flat car builders (ACF,PS, GenAm,Bethlehem) and the rack builders (W&K,Portec,Dana,etc).
Very true, but don't forget Paragon.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Auto transporting

Tim O'Connor
 

Anyone interested in early auto racks can search the archives of
the MFCL. Jim Eager and others have posted quite a lot of good
information on this subject -- When you're talking about racks it is
necessary to distinguish between the flat car builders (ACF,PS,
GenAm,Bethlehem) and the rack builders (W&K,Portec,Dana,etc).
It's actually a pretty complicated subject, and flat cars built for one
purpose have often ended up with two, three or four incarnations
as something else!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Andy Sperandeo wrote:
I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand
corrected as far as 1959.
I think the 1960 date for auto racks is probably based on the
Pullman-Standard flat car, designed specifically for use with racks,
that was introduced that year. Earlier racks were placed on modified
piggyback or container or "general-service" 85-foot flats. In my view,
the racks did pre-date the specially designed flat cars and ought not
to be confused with them, but of course, the introduction of such a car
clearly shows that racks were a strongly emerging car type. That does
make 1960 a good watershed year for rack use.

Tony Thompson


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q

toddsyr <toddsyr@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote:

"Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry?"

If I'm not mistaken, I read that very fact stated on this list at one time. Makes sense to me.

Todd K. Stearns


Re: Auto transporting

Tim O'Connor
 

I have a scan of an early autorack with pickups on top, small
cars on the mid-deck, and large cars on the bottom deck -- all
Ford/Lincoln-Mercury.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>

One can, of course, debate what "introduced" means. SP built
tri-level racks in 1959 and I have no reason to think they built the
first ones. Bi-level racks were introduced at essentially the same time
and were used for pickups and vans, which were taller than automobiles.

Tony Thompson


Re: Auto transporting

Tim O'Connor
 

Don't forget simply transporting autos on trailers on
flat cars -- this was very common by the late 1950's.
The old Revell "auto transporter" kit is perfect for this
application, and the Athearn F85F flat car is a very
good model of a car built in 1960 (very similar cars
were built in 1959). Prior to that time the trailers were
transported on converted flat cars, PRR/TTX F39's,
and even converted War Emergency gondolas (e.g.
Rock Island). The auto racks eventually ended TOFC
transportation of autos.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Auto transporting

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Sperandeo wrote:
I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand corrected as far as 1959.
I think the 1960 date for auto racks is probably based on the Pullman-Standard flat car, designed specifically for use with racks, that was introduced that year. Earlier racks were placed on modified piggyback or container or "general-service" 85-foot flats. In my view, the racks did pre-date the specially designed flat cars and ought not to be confused with them, but of course, the introduction of such a car clearly shows that racks were a strongly emerging car type. That does make 1960 a good watershed year for rack use.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Auto transporting

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand corrected
as far as 1959. If there were auto-rack cars in 1958, can anyone say who
built them or operated them? (I wouldn't count those earlier bi-level racks
for 50-foot flatcars, since they were clearly experimental and not
repeated.)

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Auto transporting

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
Andy says that tri-levels were introduced in 1960. how does that reconcile with the initial use of multi-levels in 1958. Were the early cars all bi-levels ?
One can, of course, debate what "introduced" means. SP built tri-level racks in 1959 and I have no reason to think they built the first ones. Bi-level racks were introduced at essentially the same time and were used for pickups and vans, which were taller than automobiles.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Auto transporting

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Andy says that tri-levels were introduced in 1960. how does that reconcile with the initial use of multi-levels in 1958. Were the early cars all bi-levels ?

Another kind of car used on NYC and other roads with clearance problems was called the low tri-pack. I recall vaguely something about raisable ramps at the end.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: plastic welding cement

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I hate to make corrections to someone else's posting, but some if the materials information John gives is not correct . . .
Plexiglass is a trade name for cast acrylic sheet . . . Lexan is GE's trade name for cast polycarbonate sheet.
Thank you, Dennis. Saves me writing a blurb on this <g>. In fairness to John, many people who work with plastics do tend to lump them together, though they may be chemically and even mechanically quite different, as long as they look similar or work similarly.
As Dennis hints, to a polymer chemist the terms "styrene" or "nylon" or "ABS" are about as informative as calling a metal "steel." There are extremely many formulations of most plastics for specific uses or for cost reasons, and they are most certainly not all the same. Even Lexan is but one of a number of polycarbonates. Within a family, of course, they may cut about the same, and adhesives may work about the same--but they may not, also. Generalizing material names, as so often true in other fields, has its dangers.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net


Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q

armprem
 

Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Baker" <bakert@...> wrote:

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply
with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such
cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number
of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS
cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom
The later built GN DS cars had full steel body framing, so in that
respect were not much different from the AAR war emergency boxcars.
The "special care" was a management decision to spend more money over
the long run to periodically re-sheath cars rather than spend more
money up front for steel sheathing.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links



Pro-Weld Re: Digest Number 4811

pennsylvania1954
 

Thanks, John. I knew someone would come out bragging on Pro-Weld.
Unfortunately my LHS, which usually stocks the stuff, has been unable
to obtain it. Their supplier is Walthers, who currently lists Pro-Weld
and the 232-7000 kit as not in stock with a status of TBA, and it has
been that way at least for a couple of months. I found that it is
still listed on the Ambroid website.

Can anyone point to a source?

Thanks!

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


DS/SS split, April 1949; IC, NP, MP

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here is a comparison of double sheathed, single sheathed, and steel
box and auto cars for the IC, NP, and MP for April 1949 and July
1950. Car quantities are from the ORERs of those dates; siding type
is from other sources.


IC

April 1949
IC_____%____Number
DS_____0.7%____153
SS_____41.7%____9,026
Steel_____57.6%____12,465
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____21,644
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____21,644

July 1950
IC_____%____Number
DS_____0.3%____65
SS_____40.1%____8,362
Steel_____59.6%____12,441
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____20,868
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____20,868

The IC retired over half of its double sheathed cars between April
1949 and July 1950, but they didn't have many to begin with. A
bigger numeric loss, though less proportionally, was among the single
sheathed fleet, which was reduced by over 600. The number of steel
cars was essentially unchanged. Overall, the fleet was trimmed by
776 cars.


NP

April 1949
NP_____%____Number
DS_____38.6%____7,571
SS_____22.4%____4,389
Steel_____38.2%____7,480
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.2%____19,440
Unknown_____0.8%____157
Total_____100.0%____19,597

July 1950
NP_____%____Number
DS_____35.6%____6,957
SS_____22.4%____4,378
Steel_____41.8%____8,172
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.8%____19,507
Unknown_____0.2%____47
Total_____100.0%____19,554

The NP retired over 600 DS cars but increased the number of steel
sides by nearly 700, so that overall its total fleet was about the
same size at both dates.


April 1949
MP_____%____Number
DS_____6.4%____1,166
SS_____65.2%____11,861
Steel_____28.3%____5,156
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____18,183
Unknown_____0.0%____9
Total_____100.0%____18,192

July 1950
MP_____%____Number
DS_____5.8%____1,041
SS_____65.6%____11,828
Steel_____28.6%____5,150
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____18,019
Unknown_____0.0%____9
Total_____100.0%____18,028

The distribution of MP cars of all siding types was essentially
unchanged from 1949 to 1950. Perhaps this was related to its being
in trusteeship?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: L&N symbol

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks Bob, Frank and Tim. Tim I made a quick check of the files
section for Richard's reweigh station symbols list, but didn't see it.
Is it posted somewhere?
Clark Propst


Re: styrene shapes (was Re: plastic welding cement)

Jack Burgess
 

Tim said:

Someone said Evergreen now makes BLACK plastic, but I haven't
seen any for sale.
They do have black styrene sheets (and have had them for a couple of years).
They are listed on their site at

http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/

BTW, you can order directly from Evergreen if you set up a model builder's
account with them....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Digest Number 4811

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis Storzek wrote

Unfortunately, methylene chloride is listed by OSHA as a
potential occupational carcinogen, so it is not as readily
available as it once was.
Dennis
Home Depot carries it in gallon cans... It is listed as a
"potential" hazard although the NIH web site notes that 20%
of the production is used in the manufacture of drugs and
antibiotics -- and for TABLET COATINGS. How's that for the
potential hazard of ingesting the stuff?

Tim O'Connor

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