Date   

Re: Grain doors

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

A question about grain doors, both wood and paper. Were they
installed on both sides of the car or just the side they were loading?
======================

They would be needed on the other side to keep grain from leaking through cracks in the sliding door. Being grain tight was not part of the outside door spec.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


DS/SS split, April 1949: DL&W, RDG, T&NO

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the percentages and numbers of double sheathed, single
sheathed, and steel box, auto and ventilator cars, April 1949 and
July 1950, for the DL&W, RDG, and T&NO railroads, from ORERs and
other sources.


DL&W:

April 1949
DL&W_____%____Number
DS_____34.1%____2,640
SS_____0.0%____0
Steel_____65.8%____5,100
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.9%____7,740
Unknown_____0.1%____6
Total_____100.0%____7,746

July 1950
DL&W_____%____Number
DS_____32.0%____2,523
SS_____0.0%____0
Steel_____68.0%____5,356
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____7,879
Unknown_____0.0%____1
Total_____100.0%____7,880

The DL&W trimmed a few of its double sheathed cars between April 1949
and July 1950 and added some steel sides, for a minor overall
increase. Many of its DS cars were "shorties", 36' or less interior
length. Two of its 1949 Unknowns (class VS, Ice, and probably DS)
had an IL of only 30' 9", yet were apparently in interchange service –
they were gone in 1950.


RDG:

April 1949
RDG_____%____Number
DS_____3.7%____290
SS_____8.5%____666
Steel_____87.7%____6,831
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.9%____7,787
Unknown_____0.1%____4
Total_____100.0%____7,791

July 1950
RDG_____%____Number
DS_____1.5%____116
SS_____8.7%____665
Steel_____89.7%____6,821
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____7,602
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____7,602

The Reading retired 60% of its DS fleet, one SS, and ten steel cars
for a minor overall reduction. All of its DS cars had an interior
length of 36' 2"; all of its SS cars were USRA.


T&NO:

April 1949
T&NO_____%____Number
DS_____3.3%____243
SS_____41.8%____3,062
Steel_____54.9%____4,018
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____7,323
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____7,323

July 1950
T&NO_____%____Number
DS_____0.6%____47
SS_____38.9%____2,828
Steel_____60.4%____4,392
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____7,267
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____7,267

The T&NO retired 80% of its DS fleet between April 1949 and July
1950. Not included in the table for 1949 are 221 double
sheathed "boxcars" identified in the ORER as "Cane and Bagasse" (no
A.A.R. mechanical designation), all of which had disappeared by 1950.

There was a minor decline in SS and a minor increase in steel for a
slight overall decline in the number of cars.


Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: NAPERVILLE 2007

 

Thanks Gary & Ben for the info. I downloaded the pdf.

Rich Christie
--- benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Rich Christie wrote:
"I am going to be moving to the Joliet area at the
start of October.
I am planning on attending the show. This is going
to be the first
time for me, so I have a question. Is there any
cost to attend the
show?"

Rich, I've uploaded the flyer with all of the
details in the group
files section (cut and paste the link in your
browser's address block
if it gets truncated by a line break):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Sunshine%20Models%
20Naperville%20%2707/


Ben Hom




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Re: NAPERVILLE 2007

tedander2000
 

For those interested in pre-1940 freight car prototypes straight from
the manufacturer, Bob Webber and I (Bob is the historian at the IRM
Pullman Library) expect to attend the Naperville Meet. We are getting
more inquiries on Pullman (1920 - 1940), Haskell & Barker (1910 -
1925) and Standard Steel Car (1903 - 1940). Note there is significant
difficulty accessing the collection, which is about 30% complete so
there is a finite chance of finding something. The Library is an
archive closed to the public with no openings for supervised visits
immediately before the show but there might be a slot Sunday after
the show. Visits are by invitation only, therefore we need to be
contacted in advance to explain the conditions and availability of
our time. The Pullman Library is on the way to Rockford about 1 to 1
1/2 hours from Naperville. And of course written inquiries are always
welcome, but lately there has been a delay in answering due to the
volume.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson, curator
Pullman Library
Illinois Railway Museum
P. O. Box 427
Union, IL 60180


--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

What method are we going to use to ID each other (for those going
to
Naperville this year)as STMFC members???I wear NewEngland railroad(
MEC
BM Rutland ) T shirts...
See ya all in Naperville
Joel Norman Eastern Maine Railroad ''were its always
spring/summer '52"


Re: Amount of products

Pieter Roos
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Hi Kurt;

I'm thinking more along the lines that even armor modelers who don't
go to meets are more into model building and adding detail (since
there is much else to do with the hobby). Put another way, possibly a
higher proportion of the "prototype modelers" in railroading go to the
meetings than among armor modelers.

Another thought is the tanks are more analogous to locomotives in
model railroading; the "center piece" of the modeling. In that sense
freight cars would be more like models of softskin vehicles, which I
suspect are underrepresented in the armor modeling arena (or used to
be when I was into tanks).

<Snip>

I would also say that there are many more freight car than armor
prototypes,
maybe by an order of magnitude, depending on how you slice it. It
was the
desire to model limited production vehicles and variants that really
got the
resin industry going 25 years ago. Now, you have a number of first
quality
injection molded kits of tanks that had production runs of 12, six,
three,
or even a single vehicle. (An somewhat on-topic aside: A kit was
issued
earlier this year of a truly massive German railway gun that ran on
a double
set of tracks. Only one real gun was made, but you can buy a kit of
it in
1/35 scale for ~$800. The kit weighs about *forty* pounds.)
Ahh, Dora, but she had a "bother" "Schwere Gustav" so there were two
completed. I see you can also buy an after-market aluminum barrel for
a mere $495!

http://www.modelers-paradise.com/dora35/dorarailwaygun35.htm

Pieter Roos


KL


Icing Crew Tool

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

A question came up as to the name of one of the tools used by crews
that iced reefers. To my knowledge this tool was used to move and
position blocks (or quarter blocks) of ice. (The ice was then broken
into chunks by a person using a bident.)

The link below show a crew member using the tool in question. Is it a
Pickeroon (or pickaroon), a pike pole or something else?

http://tinyurl.com/yqyjvx

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Car Identification

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I uploaded pictures (awaiting approval) of two cars that are in the area into the STMFC/Photos/Miscellaneous folder.

The first is a tank car that is on former J&L Steel/Aliquippa & Southern trackage. It appears to have an A&S reporting mark on the end. It is a riveted three course, single compartment car, but the dome looks unusually large.

The second is a flat with 11 stake pockets per side. It looks to be around 40 ft long. An NYC lot 255-F car? It looks like the B truck has NYC cast into it. . . I can't quite place the truck design though - AARs?

Thanks,
KL

0018 10 SEP 07


Re: Attendance at Cocoa Beach

destron@...
 

Curious, when will the next Cocoa Beach meet be?

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Kurt Laughlin asks:


"What is the typical attendance at Naperville and Cocoa Beach?"

Obviously I can't speak for Naperville but I can for Cocoa Beach. The
first
yr we had 160 which wasn't bad considering that the decision to do it was
made in Oct preceding the Jan date for the meet. Since then, we jumped
quickly to 230 and have expanded gradually to last yr's 272. I believe we
can comfortably handle 300 in the Hilton Hotel but above that number
things
will get a bit crowded.

Mike Brock
Prototype Rails at Cocoa Beach Chair





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http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos


Attendance at Cocoa Beach

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin asks:


"What is the typical attendance at Naperville and Cocoa Beach?"

Obviously I can't speak for Naperville but I can for Cocoa Beach. The first yr we had 160 which wasn't bad considering that the decision to do it was made in Oct preceding the Jan date for the meet. Since then, we jumped quickly to 230 and have expanded gradually to last yr's 272. I believe we can comfortably handle 300 in the Hilton Hotel but above that number things will get a bit crowded.

Mike Brock
Prototype Rails at Cocoa Beach Chair


Re: Grain doors

Ljack70117@...
 

Both sides.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Sep 9, 2007, at 6:16 PM, eric petersson wrote:

A question about grain doors, both wood and paper. Were they
installed on both sides of the car or just the side they were loading?

It would seem to me you would put them on both sides since wouldn't
know which side of the car might be opened.

Eric Petersson





Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Grain Door Construction

Jared Harper <harper-brown@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "loconut35" <lmfin@...> wrote:

I am trying to determine the size and construction of wood grain
doors. Can someone
point me to a location where I might find this information?
I know of two articles: "Modeling Grain Doors For Box Cars" by Martin
Loftin in Railmodel Journal, November 1990, pp. 16-25m and "Grain
Doors" by Dan Holbrook in Railmodel Journal, September 1992, pp. 6-14.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Amount of products

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: pieter_roos

As has been noted before, part of the issue may be in the nature of
the two hobbies. If you leave out the wargamers (who generally only
want the smaller models, and often have seperate sources altogether)
there isn't much to do with the armor modeling hobby once you pass
the research and construction phase. Contests or displays and talking
about the model I guess, but I don't think most armor modelers push
them around the table top or what have you. OTOH, a model railroader
can build and operate a layout and presumably keep reasonably busy
with the hobby without ever adding extra detail to a model (today,
possibly without ever assembling one!).

----- Original Message -----

That's why I was limiting my comparision to the folks that would attend a RPM meet. These - you - guys aren't your basic MRR types, but a smaller subset, much as the people who attend AMPS are a smaller subset of military modelers. Neither group is content to build models out of the box or buy them prepainted and weathered, thus they are the natural market for aftermarket and specialty items.

----- Original Message -----
As an additonal point, if one looks at the number of resin RR models
available and the number of parts sets from small vendors like Free
State as well as Detail Associates, et al there really is a lot
available.
----- Original Message -----

I mentioned this before, but there really ain't a lot for MRR compared to armor modeling. For example, one company has just issued their *1000th* photoetch detail set for 1/35 military vehicles. This is in addition to the ~50 "maxi" 1/35 sets, ~100 "mini" 1/35 sets, ~150 1/35 vinyl paint mask sets, and ~ 35 turned metal gun barrels, not mention the sets they've made for 1/72 and 1/48 tanks, 1/144, 1/72, 1/48, 1/35, 1/32, and 1/24 aircraft, and ships. I dare say that this one company has issued more 1/35 model detail items than all the HO RR items combined - and they are but one of dozens of companies, large and small.

----- Original Message -----
Has anyone ever tried to compare the number of possible
freight car prototypes to the number of (say) armor prototypes? I'd
guess there are more freight cars, although probably not by a
tremendous margin.
----- Original Message -----

I would also say that there are many more freight car than armor prototypes, maybe by an order of magnitude, depending on how you slice it. It was the desire to model limited production vehicles and variants that really got the resin industry going 25 years ago. Now, you have a number of first quality injection molded kits of tanks that had production runs of 12, six, three, or even a single vehicle. (An somewhat on-topic aside: A kit was issued earlier this year of a truly massive German railway gun that ran on a double set of tracks. Only one real gun was made, but you can buy a kit of it in 1/35 scale for ~$800. The kit weighs about *forty* pounds.)

KL


Re: Commonwealth 90 ton Depressed Centre Flat car

centga@...
 

Denis is correct, the C of G had?rostered 20 of these cars, built in 1956?for the General Electric plant in Rome Ga. Todd Horton

-----Original Message-----
From: Denis F. Blake <dblake7@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Commonwealth 90 ton Depressed Centre Flat car






If I am not mistaken you need to add the CofG to that list as well. I
think, and think is the operative word here, that the southern ones came
from the Central of Georgia, The Standard Railroad of the SE....Or at least
that is what the CofG fans I know tell me....<G>

Denis Blake
Marysville, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Monk" <alanmonk@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Commonwealth 90 ton Depressed Centre Flat car

Folks,

rummaging through my unbuilt-kits cupboard I dug out an Eastern Car
Works kit for the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed centre flat. Sadly
the instructions have been 'filed' somewhere previously, but I'm
content that I can put the kit together.

What I am lacking is prototype info - a trawl of the 'net tells me
that supposedly the C&NW, NH, NYC and SOU at least had examples of
this car, but that's about it.

So can anyone supply more prototype info - even if just confirmation
of which RRs had them and (as important) when (i.e. build and
withdrawl dates) and their number series please?? How close is the
ECS kit to any of those?? Links to pics online would be greatly
appreciated - I have donw a google image search for these cars, and
trawled through Fallen Flags and have come up with one (undated) pic
of SOU 50050 which *looks* very similar to the kit...

oh... and I know what the UK equivalent car type was used for
(conveying heavy machinery - bulldozers and the like - and heavy
static items like transformers) - were the US depressed flats used in
the same way??

TIA,

Alan Monk
London,
UK




Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: Amount of products

Pieter Roos
 

As has been noted before, part of the issue may be in the nature of
the two hobbies. If you leave out the wargamers (who generally only
want the smaller models, and often have seperate sources altogether)
there isn't much to do with the armor modeling hobby once you pass
the research and construction phase. Contests or displays and talking
about the model I guess, but I don't think most armor modelers push
them around the table top or what have you. OTOH, a model railroader
can build and operate a layout and presumably keep reasonably busy
with the hobby without ever adding extra detail to a model (today,
possibly without ever assembling one!).

The really odd point is the growing number of pre-assembled and even
weathered armor and aircraft models. Buy it, put it on the shelf, you
are done (except for dusting occasionally). Now there's a fulfilling
hobby!

As an additonal point, if one looks at the number of resin RR models
available and the number of parts sets from small vendors like Free
State as well as Detail Associates, et al there really is a lot
available. Has anyone ever tried to compare the number of possible
freight car prototypes to the number of (say) armor prototypes? I'd
guess there are more freight cars, although probably not by a
tremendous margin.
Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
My point being, for two modeling hobbies that are known for their
rivet counters, I'm surprised that there aren't more things like
low-pressure/limited run styrene kits, resin models, resin
conversion
sets and resin and photo-etch detail sets available for freight
cars.

You're exactly right, Kurt, and you're not the first to say
it. But
things haven't changed over the years, despite this observation
being
made regularly. Guess it's an entrenched difference <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Amount of products

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
My point being, for two modeling hobbies that are known for their rivet counters, I'm surprised that there aren't more things like low-pressure/limited run styrene kits, resin models, resin conversion sets and resin and photo-etch detail sets available for freight cars.
You're exactly right, Kurt, and you're not the first to say it. But things haven't changed over the years, despite this observation being made regularly. Guess it's an entrenched difference <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I've now had a chance to compare the information discussed here last week with the drawings Ben Hom referred to - these were printed in the November 1992 MM (and copied to me off list by another list member). of course, what I'm about to write goes on the assumption the drawings are correct.

These are drawn showing the correct 31'-2 3/4" between the trucks and 5'6" from king pin to strikers. The overall length (striker to striker) is shown as 42'-3 3/4". For the width, the measurement from centre line to outer edge of the sheathing on the bolster is 4'-8 3/8", so the width of the car at the sills is about 9'-4 3/4". Divided by 87.08571908, it makes an HO model about 1.295" wide.

So how does the Red Caboose X29 measure up in comparison (as a potential donor of parts)? It is about 1.299" wide, which seems pretty close to me. Given its length of 5.680" long, (i.e., about 41'-2 1/2" in HO) and given the length of the Seaboard ARA 1932 boxcar, 41' 2 1/2", it seems that a Red Caboose X29 roof would make a good donor roof for a kitbash model of the Seaboard car; the end a good starting point for a splice job (correct rivet pattern/wrong location for the seam between upper and lower panels); and the sides the only remaining challenge. By the way, according to the Hundman drawings, the Seaboard roofs are the same number of panels and same rivet pattern as the PRRX29 Red Caboose models. In that regard, they are either inaccurate, or Ted's use of the word "reminiscent" is analogous to "alike".

FWIW given the obvious choice of using a Sunshine model already on the market and modifying the sill tabs and underframe (if necessary - given the back and forth over dimensions, I confess I'm still not sure about that ......)

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars


Rob Kirkham wrote:
[From Ted Culotta's 1932 ARA boxcar book:]
"'However the truck centres were spaced at a distance of 31' - 2 3/4",
approximately six inches greater than the 30'-8 1/2" between truck
centres on the majority of the 1932 ARA cars.'
And at p.197, speaking of the next series of 1932 ARA design cars:
'Like the first 1000 cars, this group used truck centres spaced at a
distance of 31' - 2 3/4".'"

Al Brown replied:
"If the truck centers were 6" farther apart than normal, that indeed
suggests the kingpins were 3" closer to the car end. I stand by what
I said, though, about the appearance. Check out the side-on photos on
pp 200 (both), 203 (top), 204 (top). The wheels are visibly offset in
from the car end."

Rob, thanks for confirming the different spacing used on the SAL 1932
ARA boxcars. You will need to relocate the side sill tabs with the
bolsters. That's an easy enough fix - just fabricate the new tabs
from strip styrene and detail them with two Grandt Line or Tichy
rivets.

This does bring up another thing to verify - we need to check to see
if the Hundman drawings have the correct bolster locations.


Ben Hom




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Re: Amount of products

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: tmolsen@...

Kurt,

The Naperville attendance is close to 400 attendees. As I have not been to Coco Beach, I cannot say.

----- Original Message -----

That's comparable to the annual all-armor modeling show I attend (AMPS 2007, Havre de Grace MD: 130 contestants, 350 walk-ins, 34 vendors with 80 tables). I've mentioned before the differences between armor and freight car modeling in the available products and references (definitely more armor items), and one view was that there were fewer freight car hobbyists than armor modelers. Also, given that the freight car "convention" attracts people willing to pay $90 to $95 just to walk in the door (gadzooks!) while the armor people sometimes balk at $25, I suspect the price threshold for products would be higher too.

My point being, for two modeling hobbies that are known for their rivet counters, I'm surprised that there aren't more things like low-pressure/limited run styrene kits, resin models, resin conversion sets and resin and photo-etch detail sets available for freight cars.

KL


Re: NAPERVILLE 2007

tmolsen@...
 

Kurt,

The Naperville attendance is close to 400 attendees. As I have not been to Coco Beach, I cannot say.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479


Re: Sunshine Models Shipping Charge? (was Sunshine Contact Info)

tmolsen@...
 

Al,

The shipping cost for up to five kits from Sunshine is still $4.00. The wait for the kits is still approximately 6 months.
If you order, just put the order with a check in an envelope and mail it and forget it. It will show up sooner or later in the six month period.

If you go to the Sunshine Proto meet at Naperville, you can get the latest stuff right away, but for the earlier stuff, then you have to wait the six months.

Regards,

Tom Olsem
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: NAPERVILLE 2007

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

What is the typical attendance at Naperville and Cocoa Beach?

KL

129281 - 129300 of 195468