Neither white nor yellow carpenters glue are waterproof, nor are they sealants. However, they are quite water-resistant, and in this regard are totally satisfactory for our modeling purposes unless we are making flood plans.

Even on boats, ordinary white glue has been commonly used for years (32 in my own case) for fastening the thousands of wood plugs that cover the screw heads on varnished side and deck planking.

Use these glues in your modeling as glues are intended to be used, and be happy.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

Ed,
Happened to build one of the Seaboard gons some years ago. Think I used
an old MDC/Roundhouse kit. The sides had large slits cut into them between
the "stakes" at floor level and they were what appeared to be an off white.
Loaded it with shrub roots for stumps and it looked pretty good and even won a
prize in a LHS contest. The rest of your questions I can't answer.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Denny Anspach wrote:

Paper is a time honored model railroad construction material, the
most common type being Strathmore, the brand of a type of Bristol
board, a high, or even pure, rag content paper of archival quality
that is very dense, quick stiff, and has a variety of surfaces. It
is sold in art stores in several thicknesses, the most common being
about .008" - .010" (you will have to measure this yourself inasmuch
as the art store will have no idea what you are talking about). The
great pioneering modeler Bill Clouser was a great promoter of
Strathmore, and many of his models were constructed of this material
(he later became an enthusiast -the first?-- of resin casting!).

= = =

Bill's article on Strathmore was in the February 1959 Model Railroader, with the companion article on painting in the March 1959 issue. The material then came in five thicknesses, from .005 to .025, labeled from "1-ply" to 5-ply." But that was long ago. A check of Strathmore's web site shows the following available at art stores, in smooth (called "plate") surface 500 Series Bristol Board. Comes in 23" x 29" sheets.

235-072 2-Ply Plate Surface
235-073 3-Ply Plate Surface
235-074 4-Ply Plate Surface.

I guess the 5-ply ("075") didn't sell that well. There is a 1-ply Bristol available, I believe, although it's not listed under "071"); it's handy for rivet strips and overlays. As I remember, Testor's model airplane cement and Ambroid were the adhesives I used to build "layered" models.

The key to using Strathmore is completely sealing the model. I followed Bill's lead and used automobile gray body primer, which was then sanded and painted with lacquers. (It was a long time ago...) I recently had the good fortune to find some models I scratchbuilt from Strathmore using this method, (including my first, a CCT trolley freight motor built around 1962), and they had not warped or distorted in the intervening 35 - 45 (ouch!) years. They still look pretty good next to my scratchbuilt brass stuff, too.

Peter Weiglin
Amelia, OH

Thanks Tim!

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
They appear to be body color in a black & white builder photo and
also may appear that way in a color photo in the RI 'Color Guide'.
But it's hard to tell dirt from paint after a few years.


At 10/7/2007 01:05 PM Sunday, you wrote:

In 1951 Rock Island received 2,000 PS-1 boxcars from Pullman with the "100 Years of Progress" logo. Were the trucks black or car body color?

Thanks,

George Hollwedel

Yahoo! Groups Links






Prototype N Scale Models
by George Hollwedel
proto.nscale@...
310 Loma Verde Street
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

They appear to be body color in a black & white builder photo and
also may appear that way in a color photo in the RI 'Color Guide'.
But it's hard to tell dirt from paint after a few years.

Dennis -

Sorry for the delay in responding - I have been occupied and not on
line for several days. Others have already given you the Sylvan
website.

The "O" scale Sylvan car is fairly nicely detailed, with a one piece
sides, ends and roof and a separate floor. No special power
handbrake parts, however. Still, it is very nice.

Curiously, the diagonal side "brace" zees on the model are "upside
down", as they truly are on the CN prototypes! The open part of the
diagonal zees faces upward. On the prototype, it seems that this
would tend to catch and trap water and cause the siding to leak.
(Maybe water up there is all in the solid phase, so no problem, eh?)
I say "upside down" because it seems that they should have the open
part of the zee facing downward, to shed water away from the siding.

If the diagonal zees were "right side up", then the model would be
correct for a series of Frisco cars, and some others. That was why I
bought two of the models! Will try to remove/replace the diagonals
on one car.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@> wrote:

Many thanks for the photo, Dennis! I am getting ready to build
the "O" scale Sylvan Models kit of this car, and the info is

timely.

The second image is now available at:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/browse/fbbf

It gives a little better perspective as to how the parts fit

together.

AT, what car did Sylvan do? Could you give us a link to a web site

or

at least an image?

Thanks,

Dennis

Just make sure you don't use green rock VBG!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

From Jack Burgess

I'm getting off topic on this response but the comment by Dennis reminded me
of how a contractor working on one of the public projects I was in charge of
handled a "curved" wall. In order to break up a long hallway, the architect
designed the wall as a "wave" (appropriate since this was a indoor swim
center). The curves were about 5' radius curves. The contractor built a form
with this radius, laid a panel of sheetrock on it, and thoroughly wet it
with a garden hose. The next morning, the sheetrock had dried with the same
curvature as the form. (This might be a way to cove corners in a layout
room.)

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

Yes, Jack, this works very well for backdrop construction. At the North Shore Model Railroad Club,
all but the original backdrops are done with 3/8" drywall, made wet flat on the floor, and lifted in
place (with appropriate preliminary cuts to clear pipes, conduit and other impedimentia) and screwed
to upright supports ranging from 2x4s to 1x1s. After a few days they dried nicely, and painted just
as well as any wall. It doesn't take a ton of water, really only a painting on with a house brush
on one side. We lost a sheet to an overenthusiastic helper who dumped a five-gallon bucket of water
on it. >8^l

Incidentally, I've had fun with this professionally, as an architect, explaining to drywall guys how
to do it. I've been met with disbelief on the job, but in general they've come around to try it.
In one case, I thought I was going to have to demonstrate for them. This is all the more surprising
because it's in USG's handbook.

SGL

Bill Welch wrote (a while back)

I received my new compressor last week and I am very pleased. It is a
Campbell-Hausfeld Model # FP2040. Here is the link, I hope it works!

http://aircompressorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_180_26&products_id=119

============================================================

Bill, I'm looking for a new compressor. This one looks good.
Two questions -- How is it holding up? And is it oil-less? The
web site doesn't indicate if it uses oil or not.

Thanks
Tim O'Connor

The publication "Fine Woodworking" magazine in the July/August issue had a
very extensive test article on all the different types of wood working
glues. The only [real] waterproof glue and the most strength of all tested
was 'Titebond III'. It is classified as a Type1, PVA glue. I have used this
glue for exterior applications with no problems. This would be an excellent
glue to use for making built-up formed model car roofs.

Roger Robar - modeling the B&M in northern NH.

Hi all
On the steam freight cars website there is a photo in the reefer
gallery of an NX reefer leased to Morrell. I would love to model this
sometime, but can't quite make out what the ends are on my monitor.
It is a Ted Culotta photo, maybe your original is cleaner and you can
see precisely what type of end it is. Here is the url
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/reefer.nx1682main.html
thanks
Albert Spor

Ed,
Many white glues, as well as most yellow carpenters glue, do not dry
waterproof. Check the label of the particular product you are using to
be sure.
Pierre Oliver

I have no doubt that parts made by laminating thin sheets of material
with white glue are strong and white glue is very good for water
proofing but years ago I had difficulty painting white glue.

I used white glue and Floquil paint in aerosol cans on the first
Ambroid kits I assembled. The wet paint pulled away from thick laters
of diy white glue.

For a long time I used Ambroid cement dissolved in MEK to seal wood.

Ed Mines

Clark,

I believe the name is "Southwest Scale Productions".
Andy Carlson carries most if not all, of his doors.

Shawn Beckert

I'd be worried that any paper/wood product would absorb moisture from the
air over time and 'deform itself' - especially the single sheet of thick paper
that is not impregnated with white glue.

For an untreated single sheet of unsupported shaped thick paper, this would be the probable eventuality; but providing the required support (carlines or a shaped "plug") is a presumption, and sealing is, of course an eventuality- but it has not yet been addressed.

Paper is a time honored model railroad construction material, the most common type being Strathmore, the brand of a type of Bristol board, a high, or even pure, rag content paper of archival quality that is very dense, quick stiff, and has a variety of surfaces. It is sold in art stores in several thicknesses, the most common being about .008" - .010" (you will have to measure this yourself inasmuch as the art store will have no idea what you are talking about). The great pioneering modeler Bill Clouser was a great promoter of Strathmore, and many of his models were constructed of this material (he later became an enthusiast -the first?-- of resin casting!).

Unlike styrene, the surface of Strathmore remains relatively, though not visibly porous, and in this regard gluing/cementing is best undertaken with white glue- one of the easiest-to-use of all glues. This same relative porosity also requires that all surfaces eventually be sealed against the effects of moisture. This can be done quiet satisfactorily with any sanding sealer (usually a clear lacquer or similar containing a filler- commonly talc). I use Testor's Sanding Sealer Dope (a large bottle purchased ??? years ago!). (When I need more, I will head for the R-C store to purchase whatever that side of the hobby now uses). I lightly sand the surface with 400-600 grit before submitting it to final finishing.

Impregnating/sealing the surface with white glue itself would work, of course, but you would have the devil to pay in finally getting to a smooth-enough surface for a good finish. Stick to the products designed specially for such sealing. Infinitely easier.

I have two HO paper model cars made in 1936-7 (in Palo Alto, CA) that are very much intact with no warping or disintegration, and my own experience over 60 years of modeling supports my views (recognizing, or course, that experience is not the same as wisdom!). My other day job :-) as a long-time traditional boat re-builder and restorer also has served to give me considerable understanding of how wood and wood products work with and react to moisture and glues.

Although in my scratch-modeling I do most commonly use styrene these days, I still also commonly and easily turn to and use paper and wood when these provide easier pathways toward the goals I am seeking. They all use differing modeling disciplines and methods, and knowing, learning, and applying these is for me a significant part of the pleasurable modeling process that we all engage in.

BTW, I use the same cold molded laminating methods described with the paper to lay up with wood very strong molded inner boat bottoms.

Denny




Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

Could someone please tell me the name of the company that makes the HO
replacement plastic box car doors. I think it's something
like 'Southwest models'??
Thank you,
Clark Propst

Which is pretty much the method I use.

I find that using a former of slightly *smaller* diameter than the
intended finished radius helps and when I remove the piece from the
boiling water I plunge it into cold water.

I've made plenty of British railway van wagon roofs over the years using
this method - sadly our kit manufacturers have yet to come up with an
acceptably thin moulded roof, so I replace with thin plasticard, formed
as required.

A good variation is to also form a thicker piece which is then cut down
to fit between the car sides/ends and is laminated to the thinner
visible roof - this helps it retain it shape and makes it a 'plug-fit'
into the car body, making it easier to fix in place.

HTH,
Alan
London, UK

I'm getting off topic on this response but the comment by Dennis reminded me
of how a contractor working on one of the public projects I was in charge of
handled a "curved" wall. In order to break up a long hallway, the architect
designed the wall as a "wave" (appropriate since this was a indoor swim
center). The curves were about 5' radius curves. The contractor built a form
with this radius, laid a panel of sheetrock on it, and thoroughly wet it
with a garden hose. The next morning, the sheetrock had dried with the same
curvature as the form. (This might be a way to cove corners in a layout
room.)

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

Dennis Storzek wrote:

This is the reason that plywood is so stiff.

Exactly. Think of bending a stack of LOOSE sheets of the plywood plies.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

This is the reason that plywood is so stiff. We normally think of
plywood as a flat sheet, but sometimes it is used to make curved
objects by building it and letting the glue cure on a curved form..
Curved veneer passenger car headlinings, round veneer drum tables, old
time skis, and the original skateboards all kept their shape because
they were assembled from multiple plies of veneer on curved forms.

Dennis