Bill, All your fine detail work makes that handbrake look like it came
off an old blue box Athearn car. Very nice stuff!
Clark Propst

With the aid of Mike Brock. I have posted photos showing the photoetch
details that will come with the Sunshine Models plywood and T&G
reefers built by FGE/WFE/BRE in 1942 and 1944. These are in the photo
section under "Bill Welch Reefer Details." I notice the "fan shaft
surround plate" photo is missing but both square and round plates are
included.

Templates are included to make locating the holes to be drilled for
the bracket grab bases, fan shaft surround plate, and door hinges a
snap. Folding the bracket grab parts takes care and a good pair of
very small pliers, but as you can see does produce a nice effect IMO.
The ladders are photo etched and have slots in them to make folding
the edges easier. I used styrene to fill these voids. I am sure people
will complain about this but in working with the person who helped me
engineer these felt it was a necessary compremise. The ladders
literally snap into place on the mounting points on the sides and ends.

This is the first kits I designed/engineered and created patterns for
from start to finish. I love the protoypes with their 3' 2" bracket
grabs.

The photoetch does add to the expense of the kit but I think you will
like the end result. These will be on sale at Naperville.

Bill Welch

Tim it is oiless and I remain happy. I must admit I just recently
painted for the first itm in months, as I have had several models in
process for quite awhile. I like the built in gauges.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cf5250" <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Bill Welch wrote (a while back)

I received my new compressor last week and I am very pleased. It

is a

Campbell-Hausfeld Model # FP2040. Here is the link, I hope it

works!

http://aircompressorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?

cPath=3_180_26&products_id=119

============================================================

Bill, I'm looking for a new compressor. This one looks good.
Two questions -- How is it holding up? And is it oil-less? The
web site doesn't indicate if it uses oil or not.

Thanks
Tim O'Connor

Gentlemen,

I'm seeking a little assistance in identifying a group of boxcars. 1800 were built in total, from what I can tell in the mid 1920's. Knowing the railway they were built for, most likely in groups of 300 to 500 per order and probably from 2 or 3 different builders.

Basic specs:
- 10-panel riveted sides
- 5/3 Dreadnaught style ends
- Ajax brake gear
- Radial roof (style or type?)
- With what appeared at first glance to be a standard (AAR type) straight side sills. Closer examination proved different.
- USRA frame and KC brake system
- delivered with Andrews trucks
- 3-panel door (and not the reversed style we discussed a few weeks ago). Some of the higher number cars had early Youngstown style doors.
- The ORER states 40'-7" IL, 8'-6" IW, 9'-0" IH with 3105 cu.ft and 80,000 lb capacity.
- NdeM 48301-50100 (in early 60's some were renumbered to 95000 series).

Refer to photo at . . . http://tinyurl.com/yutu34 . . . scroll to bottom of 1st page to NdeM 48600

At first I thought I could use the CP Mini Boxcar as a starting point for a model . . . but studying the sills closer . . . I don't think the Minibox will work . . . ANY SUGGESTIONS.

Additional photos may be viewed at . . .
http://mexicanboxcar.tripod.com/mexicanboxcars/id9.html
http://mexicanboxcar.tripod.com/mexicanboxcars/id44.html
. . . the 2nd reference is a 4 photo group.

I would be interested in knowing the builders, dates and any history on the design that might be available. I thought the design could be Santa Fe in origin, but lack the information to follow that thought through.

I thank you for any assistance,

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC
_________________________________________________________________
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On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:31 PM, Bob Lucas wrote:

Were Caswell GS gondolas utilized by the Sante Fe for raw sulphur
traffic? See mention of another ATSF class (Ga-13 and Ga-19) cars
designated as "sulphur gondolas". What is a "sulphur gondola"? If the
Caswell design cars did handle sulphur, what was the nature of that
traffic? Bob

Caswell gons may have been used for sulphur service on an emergency
basis but never routinely. Bulk sulphur was extremely hard on the
metal components of the cars in which it was shipped because sulphur
dust combined with moisture produced an acid that rapidly corroded
steel and would penetrate the joints where steel parts were bolted or
riveted together. For that reason, the Santa Fe (and Southern
Pacific/T&NO) sulphur gons that were designed for the purpose in the
1920s and used in dedicated service had wood side sheathing and one
piece cast steel underframes with integral side stakes. They were
among the earliest freight cars with cast steel underframes.

Richard Hendrickson

List,

The only thing that may change is if the sale of the hotel goes through. Another firm has been working with the present owners of the hotel to purchase it. The City of Naperville wants to work with the new owners to expand the hotel and make it a convention center. The hotel would probably not be a Holiday Inn.

Tricia told me earlier this year that the purchase would not finalize until sometime in November, so they would be back this year. After the change of ownership, well, they would have to see what happens. It would probably mean another location in the area in following years if necessary, depending on price and available space.

I can't see the new owners not wanting to work with Sunshine considering the amount of business that the Seminar brings in.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gerard_fitzgerald" <gjf239@...> wrote:
I have been at my desk too long and I apologize for that last message.

GJF

I sent the announcement of our latest creation to the LDSIG list. I
would be willing to take a crack at that steam engine if no one else
wants to

Gerry

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, John Golden <golden1014@> wrote:

Gentlemen,

The latest issue of the ACL & SAL Historical Society's
"Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler" is now available for
download. Go to the society's home page and you can
download it there or view it online. Here's the link:
http://www.aclsal.org/.

We're hoping to get #3 out by Jan 1st, just before the
Cocoa Beach RPM.

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

I sent the announcement of our latest creation to the LDSIG list. I
would be willing to take a crack at that steam engine if no one else
wants to

Gerry

Gentlemen,

The latest issue of the ACL & SAL Historical Society's
"Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler" is now available for
download. Go to the society's home page and you can
download it there or view it online. Here's the link:
http://www.aclsal.org/.

We're hoping to get #3 out by Jan 1st, just before the
Cocoa Beach RPM.

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

Ed wrote:

Temporary interchange rules for box cars were adapted during WWII
because of shortages caused by the war.

I believe you are confusing the Interchange Rules with the Car Service
Rules. Scores of orders governing the use of freight equipment were issued during
and after the war. Most dealt with the utilization of house cars though
there were plenty issued governing the use of hoppers, gons, flats and tanks as
well.

Interchange Rules 1 and 2 were modified during WWII to accommodate the Car
Service Orders. Due to severe car shortages it was deemed more important to
make repairs (usually done by owners) on visiting cars rather than card them
for home. The same "emergency" was reinstated on January 1, 1947 and
continued until April of 1947.

These temporary rules were extended for several years after the war.
Exactly when were the old rules restored?
Many ODT orders continued into 1948 along with those issued by the ICC and
the AAR.

Were any PS1 box cars in service when these temporary rules were in
force?
Not just after WWII, but indeed during the Korean "Emergency" when many
orders were again issued regarding the utilization of box cars and reefers.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI





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Mr. Valoczy et al.:

I have a database for feight car classes you may find useful. I put it together several years ago in an effort to be able to correlate published or available photos with classes so I could know when I was looking at a photo that would be of use for a particular project. The DB is in Filemaker Pro, but I can write it as an Excel file as well. Those interested may contact me off-list and I will be pleased to provide it. Please do not ask for something other than the two formats just listed; there's a limit.

In this vein, I would appreciate getting specific information on car classes for roads I am missing, which includes CB&Q and Seaboard, among others. BTW, the DB is specific to January, 1953, using the NMRA reprint of the ORER as a basis. It includes NYC, PRR, SP, UP, some CB&Q, ATSF, B&O, ...

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD
drs@stsci.edu

Ed wrote:

Were gondola interiors ever cleaned? I think debris would accumulate
for many years before it was discarded.
Dunnage utilized in loading all types of open top loads would most certainly
have been removed in order to prepare the next out bound load. No doubt
scraps were scattered about and left, but the majority of larger pieces would
have to be removed in order for loads to be set correctly and blocked for
interchange.

Has anyone ever seen a puddle in a gon or a picture of a gon? There are no
holes for drainage.
Though solid steel floor cars may not have been built with and sort of drain
holes you can be sure that shortly into service they were riddled with holes
utilized to secure loads. Torch cut holes in gon floors and sides was
permitted (within reason), though the AAR's Arbitration Committee eventually put
limits on the size of the holes. They were supposed to be less than an inch
and a half but it's a sure bet that was ignored more than followed. By 1947
the Car Construction Committee approved drawings for tie down clips to be
welded to car exteriors to help alleviate some of the hole cutting problems. The
layout for the clips coupled with holes (1 1/16") bored into the top bulb
and "Z" sections was adopted as a "recommended" practice in 1947 followed by an
"alternate" design adopted in 1952.

In the era when most exposed steel rusted I can understand why some
railroads would order wood floors.
The choice had little to do with rust. Wood floors offered shippers an easy
way to secure dunnage. Later came combination steel and wood floors
followed by complete installations of "nailable" steel floors.

Were steel bands used in the steam era?
Steel banding products were patented by a number of manufacturers beginning
in the late 'teens. By the mid 1930s many AAR Open Top Loading Diagrams were
listing steel bands as an "alternative" to high tension or "annealed" wire
stranding. Both the steel and lumber industry were actively involved with the
AAR's Loading Committee. Prior to, and during WWII most of the loading
rules for both industries were revamped completely to utilize steel banding.
Rule 6 for lumber loads secured with steel banding was adopted in 1940.

Kind Regards,

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Hi Folks

Here is the DS/SS/Steel split for box and auto cars for the PRR and
NYC, 1945 and 1950:


PRR:

January 1945
PRR_____%____Number
DS_____0.0%____0
SS_____21.2%____16,690
Steel_____78.8%____62,103
Known_____100.0%____78,793
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____78,793

July 1950
PRR_____%____Number
DS_____0.0%____0
SS_____9.9%____6,489
Steel_____90.1%____59,156
Known_____100.0%____65,645
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____65,645

The Pennsy had no double sheathed cars in either year. Its single
sheathed fleet declined by over 10,000 cars, and its steel cars
dropped by another 3,000 for an overall decline of some 13,000 cars.


NYC:
The following tables are for box and auto cars with NYC reporting
marks.

January 1945
NYC_____%____Number
DS_____8.3%____4,564
SS_____3.6%____1,963
Steel_____88.2%____48,710
Known_____100.0%____55,237
Unknown_____0.0%____5
Total_____100.0%____55,242

July 1950
NYC_____%____Number
DS_____0.7%____475
SS_____0.6%____381
Steel_____98.7%____63,295
Known_____100.0%____64,151
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____64,151

DS cars were reduced by over 4,000; SS by 1,500. Steel grew by over
14,500 cars, however, for an overall gain of close to 9,000 cars.


The following two tables are for the NYC and its lessees (as of
December 31,1949), which includes cars with the following reporting
marks: NYC, B&A, CASO, CCC&StL, MC, NOR, P&E, P&LE, PMcK&Y.

January 1945
NYC+Lessees_____%____Number
DS_____11.7%____7,782
SS_____3.0%____1,968
Steel_____85.3%____56,821
Known_____100.0%____66,571
Unknown_____0.0%____5
Total_____100.0%____66,576

July 1950
NYC+Lessees_____%____Number
DS_____0.7%____523
SS_____0.5%____381
Steel_____98.7%____69,558
Known_____100.0%____70,462
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____70,462

The DS and SS fleets were dramatically reduced, steel increased, and
the system as a whole grew by about 6%.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

Hi everyone,

I honestly believe this gondola dirty floor subject is being overdone. In scrap yard service it is true with magnet loading and unloading dirt does build up on the floor.

In the classic era, gons in coal, aggregate and mineral service would be cleaned before loading, as the shipper did not want his product contaminated. All railroads had cleaning tracks for such work. Many coal mines cleaned cars on the empty side of the mine prior to loading. Also many gons at the receiving end were cleaned by laborers with shovels before release.

Ted

At 09:42 PM 10/9/2007, you wrote:

ED,

I have put debris in most of my gons. Dirt, weeds, rust scraps, a few ferns,
left over wood blocking. Almost anything could be in there, Standard scenery
techniques were used.

CJ Riley






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One piece, the ones on the ATSF stock cars. I'm not counting the snap in brake rigging.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Hi Folks

Here is the DS/SS/Steel split for January 1945, for box, auto, and
ventilated cars in interchange service for U.S. Class 1 railroads and
their lessees. Similar summaries for April 1949 and July 1950 are
shown for comparative purposes.

January 1945
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____22.7%____168,371
SS_____27.8%____206,319
Steel_____47.4%____352,421
Other_____0.8%____5,934
Known_____98.7%____733,045
Unknown_____1.3%____9,704
Total_____100.0%____742,749

April 1949
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____11.4%____83,441
SS_____23.7%____173,569
Steel_____64.0%____468,726
Other_____0.8%____5,574
Known_____99.9%____731,310
Unknown_____0.1%____933
Total_____100.0%____732,243

July 1950
Class 1_____%____Number
DS_____9.2%____65,577
SS_____22.8%____162,309
Steel_____67.2%____477,784
Other_____0.7%____4,783
Known_____99.9%____710,453
Unknown_____0.1%____574
Total_____100.0%____711,027

The 1949 and 1950 summaries differ from previous lists I have
published because in this case they include the lessees of Class 1
railroads, such as the Boston and Albany, Big Four, Michigan Central,
etc., which I had formerly excluded.

Note that there are nearly 10,000 cars in 1945 for which I do not
know the sheathing type – nevertheless, close to 99% are "Known",
which permits one to draw several conclusions:

• Steel sheathed cars were a plurality, but not a majority, in
1945 – in 1950 they constituted over two-thirds of the fleet.

• More than 60% of the double sheathed cars – over 100,000 –
were retired between 1945 and 1950. About 44,000 single sheathed
cars (21%) disappeared. Steel grew by over 125,000. The U.S. fleet
declined by nearly 32,000 cars.

• The ratio of DS to SS was 45%:55% in 1945; in 1950 it had
dropped to 29%:71%.

As time permits, I will present 1945 summary tables for individual
railroads.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

Rich,

As info the CB&Q did have a class system for freight cars but it
was internal to the Mechanical Department and the classes were not
lettered anywhere on the cars nor was there any listing generally
available. The only comprehensive listing that I have located in the
Mechanical Department archives was the original listing from the
20's when the system was created. That drawing was not, to my
knowledge, ever updated.

Cars belonging to the C&S and FW&D at times had CB&Q classes
applied to them but only if they were identical to an equivalent CB&Q
car. They had no system of their own.

To the best of my knowledge the GN, NP, and SP&S had no such
class system.

Beyond the time frame of this list neither the BN nor the BNSF have
any such system.

The AT&SF did have a class system, lettered on the cars, and known to
the railroad in general.

It can not be determined from the SLSF drawings whether they did or
did not have any class system. I have yet to figure out their system of
organization of drawings much less anything like a class system.

Russ

In a message dated 10/10/2007 12:58:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
atsf@inow.com writes:

Recently I received some IM stock cars from our good friend Andy. When
installing .088 wheel sets I noticed that all the frames are out of plumb
(correct word???). When the correct axle length was used one wheel would
set about .020 to .030 high.
My question is what causes this, the part being taken out of the mold to
soon? I'm quite sure the mold is correct! They said they would send me new

parts but while talking to them they didn't seem to have any idea of what I
was talking about.
Has anyone else noticed this?

John,

Are these the newer one piece truck or the multiple piece truck? If the
latter it is simply poor assembly techniques. These trucks have been a problem
since they were first introduced and do show up on more recent runs
occassionally.

Rich Orr


**************************************
See what's new at
http://www.aol.com

Recently I received some IM stock cars from our good friend Andy. When installing .088 wheel sets I noticed that all the frames are out of plumb (correct word???). When the correct axle length was used one wheel would set about .020 to .030 high.
My question is what causes this, the part being taken out of the mold to soon? I'm quite sure the mold is correct! They said they would send me new parts but while talking to them they didn't seem to have any idea of what I was talking about.
Has anyone else noticed this?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

All,

Here is a lesson that I learned, and I thought I'd pass it along
to the rest of you.

I just booked my room at the Naperville Holiday Inn for this
year's Sunshine Models meet.
When I called the 1-800 number, I was told that the $89 rate was
"sold out" but I could get a room at their "discount rate" of "only" $160!

So I called the Naperville Holiday Inn directly. The number at
the top of the Sunshine Models flyer (kindly posted to STMFC Files by Ben
Hom) gets you the guy who takes care of convention rooms. I asked him if
there were any more rooms at the $89 rate, and he took care of me.

The lesson here is: don't believe the 1-800 folks. If you can't
get the rate you want, call the hotel directly. This also applies at
Cocoa Beach (Prototype Rails), and likely applies at the other Prototype
Modeling meets around the country.


I look forward to seeing many of you in Naperville, and again in Cocoa
Beach!

Regards,

-Jeff

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DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
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