Date   

"Hmmm"

jim peters
 

To quote Tony Thompson from his message of Oct. 17, "Hmmm. Methinks someone protesteth too much. Don't get all defensive on us, _____. You're the guy who came to the list with this request, without visible evidence of said in-depth, non-superficial research."

Unfortunately the method used by this gentleman gets response from the members of this list; even if a couple do get their knickers in a knot. On the 11th of this month I posted a question asking assistance in finding the builder or builders of a group of boxcars. I included all the information I have plus references to photos. To date not one response or suggestion of where I might find more information, while the above mentioned topic received over a dozen replies.

As one well known comedian would say, touching the forefinger of his right hand to his forehead, "Hmmmmm".

Sorry, I had to vent my frustration; you all have a good day.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

And wish I was joining you in Naperville this weekend.
_________________________________________________________________
Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now!
http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122


Re: Vertical Ribs

Ferko <destron@...>
 

Dean,
Thanks for the clarification on the W&LE cars.

So then, I've got a list like this:

MC 99500-99999 (2-panel 7+7 inverse - "Vulcan");
P&N 1100-1123 (some; 2-panel 7+7 or 8+8 extruding - "Vulcan" in some
comments);
W&LE 27000srs (2-panel 6+6 inverse - "Vulcan");
PM 54000-54299 (2-panel 8+8 extruding - "Murphy");
PM 54500-54599 (2-panel 8+8 extruding - "Murphy");
PM 55300-55399 (2-panel 8+8 extruding - "Murphy");
PM 85000-85999 (2-panel 8+8 extruding - "Murphy").

Plus, the prototypically unattested "Atlas" end.

It seems to me odd to have only single-railway examples of each of
these, with the possible exception of the 8+8 extruding rib end - I
need to get my Semaphore magazines and count the ribs in that photo of
the P&N car.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Payne" <1payne1@...> wrote:

Frank,
The W&LE 29000-series had regular, horizontal-ribbed ends. I have a
photo of a steel-side rebuild that shows the ends as being horizontal
(this example being one of the normal convex ends). The W&LE 27000-
series were the ones with the Vulcan ends. They were fairly numerous
on the W&LE, they show up in the background of several photos.
Dean Payne


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, destron@ wrote:


I think I'm more confused on the question of vertically-ribbed
boxcar ends
than I was when I first discovered them. What exactly was what?

The simplest one is the "Atlas" end, illustrated in a drawing in
the 1928
CBC. This was three panels, the center panel being narrower than
the other
two, and having only one wide rib, the two outer panels having an
equal
number of ribs, the inner ones narrower than the center rib, but
wider
than the outer ribs. However, I have not seen this end on any photo
of any
car.

The Pere Marquette book shows several cars with vertically-ribbed
ends,
most with two panels of 8 extruding ribs each (though one, in the
class
diagram, shows 8 ribs on the left hand panel and 7 on the right
side). The
book, and the class diagrams for these cars, refer to these
as 'Murphy'
ends. The book also mentions Vulcan ends in a photo caption (p66),
saying
"Another type of vertical-rib steel end of the era was the Vulcan
end,
which had fewer ribs of greater thickness, all protruding inward."

I have seen photos of W&LE boxcars of the 27000 series with
inward-protruding vertically-ribbed ends, two panels with 6 ribs
each; I
was told that the W&LE book (John B. Corns, vol. 2) says "...the
corrugations on the 4-section Murphy car ends of the first fifty
cars
[29000 series] were turned inward, almost as if the end panels had
been
installed backwards." This confuses me, as there are, on the
photos, only
two panels visible. (I had a thought that perhaps Corns is
referring to
4-panel inverse Hutchins ends?). I have seen an end similar to the
W&LE-type 6-rib inward end on Michigan Central boxcar no. 99999 -
almost
identical, except for having two panels of 7 ribs each, all inwards
as on
the W&LE cars.

Lastly there are the vertically-ribbed ends on Piedmont & Northern
boxcars. I have so far seen only one photo of a car so equipped, in
the
February 1957 issue of Semaphore (P&N company magazine).
Unfortunately
that's in a box at my dad's house (just recently moved house yet
again) so
I can't count the ribs, but I recall them as being either 14 or 16
ribs in
total on two panels, extruding ribs like on the PM cars. This car is
either number 1101 or 1111; it's difficult to make out on the photo,
though I'm tending towards thinking it's 1111. I've seen written
that P&N
1108 had Vulcan ends (assuming this to refer to the vertically-
ribbed end
as on 1111), but the photo of 1108, post-rebuild, in the April 1957
Semaphore shows it with a Hutchins end. I have seen no other
reports or
photos of P&N cars with such ends.

Beyond the W&LE, MCRR, P&N and PM, I have not seen or heard of
reference
to any other railway owning boxcars with vertically-ribbed ends.
And,
those which I have seen vary greatly from one to the next, it
seeming that
only the PM and the P&N shared a similar design.

Does anyone have info to clarify this question (or info to further
confuse
it?)

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos


Re: Vertical Ribs

Ray Breyer
 

destron@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
Beyond the W&LE, MCRR, P&N and PM, I have not seen or heard of reference
to any other railway owning boxcars with vertically-ribbed ends. And,
those which I have seen vary greatly from one to the next, it seeming that
only the PM and the P&N shared a similar design.
Does anyone have info to clarify this question (or info to further confuse
it?)

The NYC ordered at least a few auto boxes with Vulcan end doors: MC 99500-99999, lot 324-B. Westerfield has a kit for these cars (7903).

Ray Breyer

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Re: Vertical Ribs

Dean Payne
 

Frank,
The W&LE 29000-series had regular, horizontal-ribbed ends. I have a
photo of a steel-side rebuild that shows the ends as being horizontal
(this example being one of the normal convex ends). The W&LE 27000-
series were the ones with the Vulcan ends. They were fairly numerous
on the W&LE, they show up in the background of several photos.
Dean Payne


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, destron@... wrote:


I think I'm more confused on the question of vertically-ribbed
boxcar ends
than I was when I first discovered them. What exactly was what?

The simplest one is the "Atlas" end, illustrated in a drawing in
the 1928
CBC. This was three panels, the center panel being narrower than
the other
two, and having only one wide rib, the two outer panels having an
equal
number of ribs, the inner ones narrower than the center rib, but
wider
than the outer ribs. However, I have not seen this end on any photo
of any
car.

The Pere Marquette book shows several cars with vertically-ribbed
ends,
most with two panels of 8 extruding ribs each (though one, in the
class
diagram, shows 8 ribs on the left hand panel and 7 on the right
side). The
book, and the class diagrams for these cars, refer to these
as 'Murphy'
ends. The book also mentions Vulcan ends in a photo caption (p66),
saying
"Another type of vertical-rib steel end of the era was the Vulcan
end,
which had fewer ribs of greater thickness, all protruding inward."

I have seen photos of W&LE boxcars of the 27000 series with
inward-protruding vertically-ribbed ends, two panels with 6 ribs
each; I
was told that the W&LE book (John B. Corns, vol. 2) says "...the
corrugations on the 4-section Murphy car ends of the first fifty
cars
[29000 series] were turned inward, almost as if the end panels had
been
installed backwards." This confuses me, as there are, on the
photos, only
two panels visible. (I had a thought that perhaps Corns is
referring to
4-panel inverse Hutchins ends?). I have seen an end similar to the
W&LE-type 6-rib inward end on Michigan Central boxcar no. 99999 -
almost
identical, except for having two panels of 7 ribs each, all inwards
as on
the W&LE cars.

Lastly there are the vertically-ribbed ends on Piedmont & Northern
boxcars. I have so far seen only one photo of a car so equipped, in
the
February 1957 issue of Semaphore (P&N company magazine).
Unfortunately
that's in a box at my dad's house (just recently moved house yet
again) so
I can't count the ribs, but I recall them as being either 14 or 16
ribs in
total on two panels, extruding ribs like on the PM cars. This car is
either number 1101 or 1111; it's difficult to make out on the photo,
though I'm tending towards thinking it's 1111. I've seen written
that P&N
1108 had Vulcan ends (assuming this to refer to the vertically-
ribbed end
as on 1111), but the photo of 1108, post-rebuild, in the April 1957
Semaphore shows it with a Hutchins end. I have seen no other
reports or
photos of P&N cars with such ends.

Beyond the W&LE, MCRR, P&N and PM, I have not seen or heard of
reference
to any other railway owning boxcars with vertically-ribbed ends.
And,
those which I have seen vary greatly from one to the next, it
seeming that
only the PM and the P&N shared a similar design.

Does anyone have info to clarify this question (or info to further
confuse
it?)

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos


Re: 1932 ARA box cars

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Thanks, Walt

I was looking for something live on the website rathe than a PDF.

Got it.

Thanks again

Dick

On Oct 25, 2007, at 12:16 AM, WaltGCox@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:23:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ddermody@vtrfd.com writes:

I just checked the Atlas website and see no mention.



Hi Dick, Try clicking on the October, November, December catalogue then
scroll down to the 1932 boxcars which are right after the covered hoppers. Walt


Re: 1932 ARA box cars

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Terry,

That's welcome news, but where did you find it?

I just checked the Atlas website and see no mention.

Dick

On Oct 24, 2007, at 7:31 PM, Terry Link wrote:

Atlas has announced an HO scale ready to run 1932 ARA boxcar for May 2008.
No prices yet.

2 body styles - one with Murphy roof and 4/4 Dreadnaught ends the other with
11 panel flat roof with flat ends.

First run roadnames will be Central of Georgia, Clinchfield, Missouri
Pacific, Maine Central and Warrior River Terminal as well as undec.



Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@canadasouthern.com
www.canadasouthern.com




Yahoo! Groups Links




Vertical Ribs

destron@...
 

I think I'm more confused on the question of vertically-ribbed boxcar ends
than I was when I first discovered them. What exactly was what?

The simplest one is the "Atlas" end, illustrated in a drawing in the 1928
CBC. This was three panels, the center panel being narrower than the other
two, and having only one wide rib, the two outer panels having an equal
number of ribs, the inner ones narrower than the center rib, but wider
than the outer ribs. However, I have not seen this end on any photo of any
car.

The Pere Marquette book shows several cars with vertically-ribbed ends,
most with two panels of 8 extruding ribs each (though one, in the class
diagram, shows 8 ribs on the left hand panel and 7 on the right side). The
book, and the class diagrams for these cars, refer to these as 'Murphy'
ends. The book also mentions Vulcan ends in a photo caption (p66), saying
"Another type of vertical-rib steel end of the era was the Vulcan end,
which had fewer ribs of greater thickness, all protruding inward."

I have seen photos of W&LE boxcars of the 27000 series with
inward-protruding vertically-ribbed ends, two panels with 6 ribs each; I
was told that the W&LE book (John B. Corns, vol. 2) says "...the
corrugations on the 4-section Murphy car ends of the first fifty cars
[29000 series] were turned inward, almost as if the end panels had been
installed backwards." This confuses me, as there are, on the photos, only
two panels visible. (I had a thought that perhaps Corns is referring to
4-panel inverse Hutchins ends?). I have seen an end similar to the
W&LE-type 6-rib inward end on Michigan Central boxcar no. 99999 - almost
identical, except for having two panels of 7 ribs each, all inwards as on
the W&LE cars.

Lastly there are the vertically-ribbed ends on Piedmont & Northern
boxcars. I have so far seen only one photo of a car so equipped, in the
February 1957 issue of Semaphore (P&N company magazine). Unfortunately
that's in a box at my dad's house (just recently moved house yet again) so
I can't count the ribs, but I recall them as being either 14 or 16 ribs in
total on two panels, extruding ribs like on the PM cars. This car is
either number 1101 or 1111; it's difficult to make out on the photo,
though I'm tending towards thinking it's 1111. I've seen written that P&N
1108 had Vulcan ends (assuming this to refer to the vertically-ribbed end
as on 1111), but the photo of 1108, post-rebuild, in the April 1957
Semaphore shows it with a Hutchins end. I have seen no other reports or
photos of P&N cars with such ends.

Beyond the W&LE, MCRR, P&N and PM, I have not seen or heard of reference
to any other railway owning boxcars with vertically-ribbed ends. And,
those which I have seen vary greatly from one to the next, it seeming that
only the PM and the P&N shared a similar design.

Does anyone have info to clarify this question (or info to further confuse
it?)

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos


Re: 1932 ARA box cars

Walter Cox
 

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:23:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ddermody@vtrfd.com writes:

I just checked the Atlas website and see no mention.



Hi Dick, Try clicking on the October, November, December catalogue then
scroll down to the 1932 boxcars which are right after the covered hoppers. Walt



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: DS/SS split 1945 CB&Q, ACL help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Thank you very much, Al. Here is the DS/SS/Steel split for box and
auto cars on the ACL for January 1945, April 1949, and July 1950,
with Al Brown's data added in:

ACL_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____2,936____2,413_____2,382
SS_____0____44_____22
Steel_____9,645____9,585_____11,366
Unknown_____0____0_____0
Total_____12,581____12,042_____13,770

ACL_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____23.3%____20.0%_____17.3%
SS_____0.0%____0.4%_____0.2%
Steel_____76.7%____79.6%_____82.5%
Unknown_____0.0%____0.0%_____0.0%
Total_____100.0%____100.0%_____100.0%

The single sheathed cars were USRA SS cars "inherited" from the AB&C,
series 27000-27199, 200 built.

Also, thanks Al for identifying the 47000 series. That gives us an
additional year of data (April 1942 ORER):

ACL_____1942_____1945_____1949_____1950
DS_____3,568_____2,936_____2,413_____2,382
SS_____2,008_____0_____44_____22
Steel_____5,907_____9,645_____9,585_____11,366
Unknown_____0_____0_____0_____0
Total_____11,483_____12,581_____12,042_____13,770

ACL_____1942_____1945_____1949_____1950
DS_____ 31.1%_____23.3%_____20.0%_____17.3%
SS_____ 17.5%_____0.0%_____0.4%_____0.2%
Steel_____51.4%_____76.7%_____79.6%_____82.5%
Unknown_____0.0%_____0.0%_____0.0%_____0.0%
Total_____100.0%_____100.0%_____100.0%_____100.0%

Thanks again, and best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <ostresh@> wrote:

Hi Folks

Before I post the DS/SS splits for the CB&Q and ACL I thought I
would
see whether anyone can tell me about the sheathing type
(DS/SS/Steel/Rebuild) for the following series, as of January
1945.
The ORER describes both series as having "Steel Underframes"; the
CB&Q series is additionally described as "Steel Frame".
ACL, VM, Vent., 41286-43413, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 494, NA
(SU)
Class O-12, double-sheathed: Lines South 4/89 pp 1, 4-17.

Note that both series were empty by July 1950; also, the ACL
series
are "shorty" ventilator cars, almost certainly double sheathed,
but
possibly rebuilt with steel sheathing by January 1945.
Nope: ACL's only steel-sided vents were a few all-steel boxcars to
which ventilators were added, class O-25. Same article.


Another "Steel Underframe" ACL series, not in the 1945 ORER, but
present in the April 1942 one is this:
Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1945, Qty 1950
ACL, XM, Box, 47000-50699, 40'6", 8'5", 6'0", 80000, NA, NA (SU)

In 1938 there were 3,642 cars in this series; by 1942 this had
dropped to 2,008 and by 1945 they had disappeared.
Class O-16, *Single* sheathed. Lines South 10/89 pp1, 4-13. This
series disappeared rapidly because they were rebuilt with steel
sides
and either single or double doors, but they were re-numbered upon
re-
building. Anything in the original series was still single sheathed.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


1932 ARA box cars

Terry Link <trlink@...>
 

Atlas has announced an HO scale ready to run 1932 ARA boxcar for May 2008. No prices yet.

2 body styles - one with Murphy roof and 4/4 Dreadnaught ends the other with 11 panel flat roof with flat ends.

First run roadnames will be Central of Georgia, Clinchfield, Missouri Pacific, Maine Central and Warrior River Terminal as well as undec.



Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@canadasouthern.com
www.canadasouthern.com


Re: DS/SS split 1945 CB&Q, ACL help needed

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

Hi Folks

Before I post the DS/SS splits for the CB&Q and ACL I thought I
would
see whether anyone can tell me about the sheathing type
(DS/SS/Steel/Rebuild) for the following series, as of January
1945.
The ORER describes both series as having "Steel Underframes"; the
CB&Q series is additionally described as "Steel Frame".
ACL, VM, Vent., 41286-43413, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 494, NA (SU)
Class O-12, double-sheathed: Lines South 4/89 pp 1, 4-17.

Note that both series were empty by July 1950; also, the ACL series
are "shorty" ventilator cars, almost certainly double sheathed, but
possibly rebuilt with steel sheathing by January 1945.
Nope: ACL's only steel-sided vents were a few all-steel boxcars to
which ventilators were added, class O-25. Same article.


Another "Steel Underframe" ACL series, not in the 1945 ORER, but
present in the April 1942 one is this:
Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1945, Qty 1950
ACL, XM, Box, 47000-50699, 40'6", 8'5", 6'0", 80000, NA, NA (SU)

In 1938 there were 3,642 cars in this series; by 1942 this had
dropped to 2,008 and by 1945 they had disappeared.
Class O-16, *Single* sheathed. Lines South 10/89 pp1, 4-13. This
series disappeared rapidly because they were rebuilt with steel sides
and either single or double doors, but they were re-numbered upon re-
building. Anything in the original series was still single sheathed.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: DS/SS split 1945 CB&Q, ACL help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Thank you very much, Charlie. Here is the DS/SS/Steel split for box
and auto cars on the CB&Q for January 1945, April 1949, and July 1950
with Charlie Vlk's data added in:

CB&Q_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____4,528____806_____272
SS_____13,143____11,526_____10,890
Steel_____5,346____10,199_____10,305
Other_____0____0_____0
Unknown_____4____0_____0
Total_____23,021____22,531_____21,467

CB&Q_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____19.7%____3.6%_____1.3%
SS_____57.1%____51.2%_____50.7%
Steel_____23.2%____45.3%_____48.0%
Other_____0.0%____0.0%_____0.0%
Unknown_____0.0%____0.0%_____0.0%
Total_____100.0%____100.0%_____100.0%

Double sheathed cars nearly disappeared over this time span. Steel
sheathed cars almost doubled. Single sheathed cars were still a
majority, but just barely.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Larry-
The CB&Q 1930 Freight Car Diagram Book lists cars 44500-44999 as
Class XA-7 80M Capy Automobile Cars.
The listing states they were built by Pullman and as of Issue A 11-
01-29 there were 497 in service. The length
was 40'-6" and were built from 1922-23. You are correct in that
the diagram book shows "S.U. and outside steel frame".
The diagram page shows them to be 10'-0" clear opening with
presumeably 1 1/2 doors. They are drawn with
5-5-5 narrow rib steel ends on the diagram.
RPC Vol 12 has excellent coverage of these cars and other CB&Q
Automobile Box Cars.
The CB&Q cars were single sheathed; the Q seemed to prefer single
sheathed cars. I don't know the history of its
post-1900 double sheathed boxcar (non-Auto) fleet but it seems like
the Q design double sheathed cars
were converted to work train service and the USRA cars disappeared
pretty much by the end of WWII. I just heard
that a few cars were sold to the AC&Y; from what series, etc.. I
haven't followed up on yet.
Charlie Vlk


Re: DS/SS split 1945 CB&Q, ACL help needed

Charlie Vlk
 

Larry-
The CB&Q 1930 Freight Car Diagram Book lists cars 44500-44999 as Class XA-7 80M Capy Automobile Cars.
The listing states they were built by Pullman and as of Issue A 11-01-29 there were 497 in service. The length
was 40'-6" and were built from 1922-23. You are correct in that the diagram book shows "S.U. and outside steel frame".
The diagram page shows them to be 10'-0" clear opening with presumeably 1 1/2 doors. They are drawn with
5-5-5 narrow rib steel ends on the diagram.
RPC Vol 12 has excellent coverage of these cars and other CB&Q Automobile Box Cars.
The CB&Q cars were single sheathed; the Q seemed to prefer single sheathed cars. I don't know the history of its
post-1900 double sheathed boxcar (non-Auto) fleet but it seems like the Q design double sheathed cars
were converted to work train service and the USRA cars disappeared pretty much by the end of WWII. I just heard
that a few cars were sold to the AC&Y; from what series, etc.. I haven't followed up on yet.
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: laramielarry
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: [STMFC] DS/SS split 1945 CB&Q, ACL help needed


Hi Folks

Before I post the DS/SS splits for the CB&Q and ACL I thought I would
see whether anyone can tell me about the sheathing type
(DS/SS/Steel/Rebuild) for the following series, as of January 1945.
The ORER describes both series as having "Steel Underframes"; the
CB&Q series is additionally described as "Steel Frame".

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1945, Qty 1950
CB&Q, XA, Box, 44500-44999, 40'6", 10'0", 10'0", 80000, 282,NA (SU,SF)
ACL, VM, Vent., 41286-43413, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 494, NA (SU)

Note that both series were empty by July 1950; also, the ACL series
are "shorty" ventilator cars, almost certainly double sheathed, but
possibly rebuilt with steel sheathing by January 1945. In 1938, the
CB&Q series was nearly full, 490 cars; in 1938 the ACL series had
2,337 cars.

Another "Steel Underframe" ACL series, not in the 1945 ORER, but
present in the April 1942 one is this:
Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1945, Qty 1950
ACL, XM, Box, 47000-50699, 40'6", 8'5", 6'0", 80000, NA, NA (SU)

In 1938 there were 3,642 cars in this series; by 1942 this had
dropped to 2,008 and by 1945 they had disappeared.

I suspect that all three series of cars were double sheathed, but if
anyone can verify (or contradict) their sheathing type, I would be
very appreciative. Build or rebuild dates would also be useful.

Thank you,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Reduced price resin kits

Eric Hansmann
 

I stopped by Peach Creek Shops in Laurel, Maryland today and was surprised to find several Westerfield and Funero kits at reduced prices. Apparently these arrived in an estate sale. All kits are shrink-wrapped. A couple of the Westerfield kits have additional or different decals, but I did not take detailed notes beyond kit number, quantity and price. I figured a few of you may be interested.

Peach Creek Shops contact points can be found through their website:
http://www.peachcreekshops.com/

I have no affiliation with Peach Creek. Just happened to visit today and thought I’d share the info.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Westerfield Kits
All kits are priced below $15 each.
You can check the details at http://www.westerfield.biz/

1251 – PRR G22/G22B MODERNIZED
1400 – AT&SF BX-W/X/Y/Z 36' DS_BOX CAR
2154 - P&LE USRA 70-TON HOPPER MODN.
2600 - URTC MILW AC&F 42' TYPE Ic REEFER
3151 - B&O W-1 HOPPER MOD.
3309 – D&H USRA SS_BOX CAR
3400 - PSC ORE CAR ORIG. (3 on shelf)
3810 - FRISCO USRA DS BOX CAR, ORIG.
3813 – Lackawanna USRA DS BOX CAR, ORIG.
3853 – B&M alternate lettering USRA DS BOX CAR, ORIG.
4001 – not listed in current catalog and I did not write down the details
4021 - not listed in current catalog and I did not write down the details
4205 - CPR 5-foot DOOR 2-BRC FOWLER STOCK ORIG.
4500 – PRR GRA 40' GONDOLA
4601 – AT&SF BX-11 SS_BOX CAR
4952 – PFE R-30-4 REEFER SFTY. APPL.
5300 – Undec S-40-5/6 36' STOCK_CAR
6404 - ROCK ISLAND FOWLER CLONE 1915 PULL.
6453 - D&RGW FOWLER CLONE MODN. (3 on shelf)
6501 - not listed in current catalog and I did not write down the details
6701 - URTC/MILW TYPE 3 AC&F REEFER 1920'S

Old address on box. Most likely old, brittle resin.
1104 – UP A-50-4 50' STEEL_AUTO CAR
1310 - NYP&N EARLY XL VENTILATED BOX
1900 – MP 40' SS_AUTO/SS_BOX CARS
2500 – Undec. 40' COMPOSITE GONDOLA
2600 – Undec. TYPE 1c AC&F REEFER
3310 - READING USRA SS BOX CAR

Has original box, but original label is gone. Hand written label only, with no address indication. Not sure if these are old or new resin.

3813 - Lackawanna USRA DS BOX CAR, ORIG.
6002 - G.N./WFEX TYPE 1 AC&F REEFER


Funero & Camarlengo Kits
I only wrote down kit numbers with the intent to fill in details from their web site.
http://www.fandckits.com/

I went to the site and found it was gone. There was this note:
Notice: This domain name expired on 10/18/07 and is pending renewal or deletion.

If someone sees them at an upcoming show, let them know their site is down.

Here’s what was on the Peach Creek shelves. Except those noted, these kits were priced at $15 each.

1015
1020
2081
3201
4601
4621
5050 (2 on shelf)
5061 ($20)
6140 (4 on shelf)
6141
6261
6262
6320
6421
6422 ($19)
6423
6424
C-5041 ($19)

These F&C kits were in blue boxes:
1046 ($16)
2000


Re: Cement Hoppers - Weighing cars.

Philip Dove <philip.dove@...>
 

Tim.
Of course springs get depressed! Think of the pressure their under and the expectation that they will always perform really well.
Regards Philip Dove

----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 23 October 2007 20:17
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cement Hoppers - Weighing cars.



I didn't realize springs got depressed. But I suppose life is pretty
dull for them...

See ya at Naperville!
Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@mchsi.com>

> Not accurately, but it has its uses. My daughter, of all people, is a
> CPA with a major firm, and in her early years with the firm had to go
> on-site and conduct physical inventories when the firm audited
> inventories. She was told early on, when counting numerous tankcars of
> corn syrup, to simply look at the truck springs. If the springs
> weren't depressed, the car was empty.


DS/SS split 1945 CB&Q, ACL help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Before I post the DS/SS splits for the CB&Q and ACL I thought I would
see whether anyone can tell me about the sheathing type
(DS/SS/Steel/Rebuild) for the following series, as of January 1945.
The ORER describes both series as having "Steel Underframes"; the
CB&Q series is additionally described as "Steel Frame".

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1945, Qty 1950
CB&Q, XA, Box, 44500-44999, 40'6", 10'0", 10'0", 80000, 282,NA (SU,SF)
ACL, VM, Vent., 41286-43413, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 494, NA (SU)

Note that both series were empty by July 1950; also, the ACL series
are "shorty" ventilator cars, almost certainly double sheathed, but
possibly rebuilt with steel sheathing by January 1945. In 1938, the
CB&Q series was nearly full, 490 cars; in 1938 the ACL series had
2,337 cars.

Another "Steel Underframe" ACL series, not in the 1945 ORER, but
present in the April 1942 one is this:
Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1945, Qty 1950
ACL, XM, Box, 47000-50699, 40'6", 8'5", 6'0", 80000, NA, NA (SU)

In 1938 there were 3,642 cars in this series; by 1942 this had
dropped to 2,008 and by 1945 they had disappeared.

I suspect that all three series of cars were double sheathed, but if
anyone can verify (or contradict) their sheathing type, I would be
very appreciative. Build or rebuild dates would also be useful.

Thank you,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


DS/SS split 1945 to 1950, SOUTHERN, C&O, and PM

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the numbers and percentages of DS/SS/Steel box and auto cars
in interchange service as of January 1945, April 1949, and July 1950,
on the Southern, C&O, and Pere Marquette.

SOUTHERN_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____19,520____10,608_____7,400
SS_____0____0_____0
Steel_____12,607____17,974_____17,946
Unknown_____5____2_____1
Total_____32,132____28,584_____25,347

SOUTHERN_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____60.7%____37.1%_____29.2%
SS_____0.0%____0.0%_____0.0%
Steel_____39.2%____62.9%_____70.8%
Unknown_____0.0%____0.0%_____0.0%
Total_____100.0%____100.0%_____100.0%


C&O_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____3,543____2,656_____1,455
SS_____51____146_____369
Steel_____9,589____11,976_____12,568
Aluminum_____0____10_____10
Unknown_____0____13_____35
Total_____13,183____14,801_____14,437

C&O_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____26.9%____17.9%_____10.1%
SS_____0.4%____1.0%_____2.6%
Steel_____72.7%____80.9%_____87.1%
Aluminum_____0.0%____0.1%_____0.1%
Unknown_____0.0%____0.1%_____0.2%
Total_____100.0%____100.0%_____100.0%


PM_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____2,442____839_____402
SS_____2,263____2,125_____1,887
Steel_____5,317____5,016_____4,511
Unknown_____31____0_____0
Total_____10,053____7,980_____6,800

PM_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____24.3%____10.5%_____5.9%
SS_____22.5%____26.6%_____27.8%
Steel_____52.9%____62.9%_____66.3%
Unknown_____0.3%____0.0%_____0.0%
Total_____100.0%____100.0%_____100.0%


C&O+PM_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____5,985____3,495_____1,857
SS_____2,314____2,271_____2,256
Steel_____14,906____16,992_____17,079
Aluminum_____0____10_____10
Unknown_____31____13_____35
Total_____23,236____22,781_____21,237

C&O+PM_____1945____1949_____1950
DS_____25.8%____15.3%_____8.7%
SS_____10.0%____10.0%_____10.6%
Steel_____64.2%____74.6%_____80.4%
Aluminum_____0.0%____0.0%_____0.0%
Unknown_____0.1%____0.1%_____0.2%
Total_____100.0%____100.0%_____100.0%


Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Cement Hoppers - Far Ranging or Mostly Home Road?

Jerry Dziedzic
 

Not often I see such a lengthy cement thread, and I almost missed it
because I didn't check the list for several days! Some quick notes
to add on the topic of whose cars were used.

A ready-mix plant receiving bulk cement could see some variety in
cars. It's good purchasing practice to use two or more suppliers,
especially for any large, high-volume use. So, a plant in north
Jersey in the early 50's might buy from Penn Dixie and receive L&NE
cars, and from Hercules and receive Lackawanna cars.

Shipments to this plant would move from the respective mills in
eastern PA. It's also possible that one of the suppliers, say Penn
Dixie, chooses to ship from another of their locations. I have
records of regular movements from Penn Dixie's Chattanooga-area plant
into north Jersey during this time frame, using NC&StL equipment.

Why the long haul? Don't know, but could be any one of a number of
reasons: PA mill production at capacity, PA mill production affected
by maintenance, specialty grade of cement not mfg'd in PA, etc.

Finally, regarding assigned service. Those with whom I've
corresponded will know this is a personal favorite of mine. Jack
Burgess has records of numerous L&NE cars on the YV in the immediate
post-war period. What's even more odd is that the cars were moving
to and from a mill that had ceased production! We can only speculate
about the reasons, but it seems likely that assigned service is one
of them.

So, as so often seems the case, there are strong doses of "probably"
and "depends" in the answers to your questions.

I can provide some routings on cement shipments into north Jersey,
but this will have to wait until next week. Let me know if you're
interested.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@...> wrote:

Jim,

This is a good question and I did not know the answer until I
obtained
copies of the documents with the assignments for covered hoppers
for the
B&O.

From these documents prepared in the 1950's, it shows that
essentially
the entire fleet of B&O 2-bay covered hoppers were in assigned
service.
The assignments ranged over the entire service area for the B&O and
to
sites off-line. In this earlier time frame these types of covered
hoppers were not in any sort of "pool" service, but moved back and
forth
between the source and the customer. The commodities were dense
bulk
materials: cement, sand, etc. Comparing the two documents we have
one
can see slight shifts in traffic patterns, new customers added ,
older
ones removed, etc., but some hoppers remained in the same assigned
service for 5+ years.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jim Betz <jimbetz@> wrote:

Did cement hoppers travel long distances in interchange service
as a
common practice? For instance, if you were the conductor on a job
working a cement plant did you tend to see a lot of mixture of
cars
(by RR) or were they mostly from one road? I'm primarily
interested
in what happened in the 50's ... but I'd also be interested in
knowing
that the practice changed over the decades if that happened.

My experience/logic says that there are cement producing plants
"all over the nation" and the product is fairly heavy ... so it
makes sense that they did not ship cement from some place such as
the
Kaiser Permanente in Cupertino, Ca. to a ready-mix supplier or
bagging
plant in New Jersey.
I would guess that major projects - such as the pour of a dam -
might receive cement in hoppers rather than after it has been
re-packaged into smaller quantities such as the typical 50# bags
we see all the time. But other than those special situations I
would guess that a loaded cement hopper went to a bagging or
ready-mix plant for unloading. True?

So wouldn't a ready-mix plant in Georgia typically receive its
cement
from a 'relatively local' source rather than having it shipped
all the
way
across the country?

And then there is the question of whether or not the
yardmaster/freight
agent in 'some yard somewhere' would just grab any available empty
cement
hopper for loading or if they were typically sent back to their
home
road relatively quickly (compared to a general purpose car such
as a
box car, mill gon, or flat).
- Jim in San Jose

P.S. I've never seen any info on the routing of cement hoppers.
If
there
is such a thing I'd be interested in knowing about it.


Re: Cement Hoppers - Weighing cars.

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ljack70117@... wrote:

Do you have any Idea what the cost of weighing each car is. >
Larry Jackman

Larry, To be perfectly honest I find what other railroads did
interesting, but really don't care : ) I only model one local
railroad and the two local plants (well, sort of) and therefore
really only care what they did. My research is on just them.

One of the plants built a new loadout facility in the late 50s with
a scale. They weighed each car, if the car is too light they would
push it back into the loadout bay and top it off. They still do it
that way today! The other plant built their bulk hopper loadout in
the early 60s and each bay has it's own scale the car is spotted on
for loading. That way the loader knows the light weight and sees the
weight of each car as it is being filled.

Both plants threw out their old records so I don't know how many
cars they loaded a day. But, in the 50s they still would have loaded
more box cars than hoppers. In an aerial photo of one plant from the
late 50s I count about 20 hoppers and 16 box cars. An 1956 aerial
photo of the other larger capacity plant with only a partial view of
their yard shows about 30 covered hoppers and 25 box cars, but the
box car tracks are cut off. A 4-54 photo has about 19 covered
hoppers visable and 31 box cars. The M&StL switch job is in the
photo bring 4 mty box cars and 4 mty hoppers to the plant. Remember
April would still be slow time for shipping.

I'm off to Naperville this afternoon my "driver" has business in the
morning so I'll be taking it easy in the hotel tomorrow morning.
See ya there,
Clark propst


Re: Brake Hoses

jerryglow2
 

I'm sure it would as I often do so when forming strap steps etc. when I
want nice tight bends.

JErry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:

Jack Burgess responds to the problem of the fine
PSC brass brake hoses occasionally snapping off
at the valve during bending-

I wonder if anealing them first might help....?
........

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