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Re: glass cullet in hoppers, out of era.
James Eckman
One reason that bottle plants generate cullet is that if a SINGLE bottle is found with a defect called a bird's swing, the entire batch of bottles is rejected and smashed on the spot, even if there are 1,000s in that batch. When the bottles are filled, this defect leaves tiny shards of glass in the bottle. Very nasty to say the least. Also hangups in the line can quickly destroy 100 or more bottles in a very short period of time. These happen fairly often. The technology hasn't changed much since the 40's from what I understand except for inspection and threaded caps.
Jim Eckman Former designer of bottle inspection equipment
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Re: Cullet
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
John C. La Rue, Jr. wrote:
I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives are removed when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with the limestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.I forgot to mention, lest there be any confusion, that this is NOT what happens when scrap steel is remelted. You don't get anything like "pure iron," but simply the net of the alloying contents in the scrap. Some impurities can be slagged off, but scrap is usually segregated as to approximate alloy content (and is considerably less valuable if not segregated), just so that the sometimes complex and subtle adjustment of alloy content does not have to be done on a very big scale. I think John is confusing remelting of scrap, with production from raw materials. Anthony Thompson Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering University of California, Berkeley thompsonmarytony@...
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Re: Cullet
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
John C. La Rue, Jr. wrote:
I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives are removed when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with the limestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.Different process, John. In fact, colored glass is QUITE hard to re-clarify. You can mix brown and green glass, but not put either one into clear glass. And blue glass is a serious contaminant for any other glass color. There are several reasons, but an important one is that glass melting is a very slow process, mostly due to the viscosity and resulting slow circulation and mixing of the glass--24-hour melts are common, whereas steelmaking can be accomplished in 90 minutes or less. (That's the reason that glass recycling really saves little energy; the process takes about as long, and about as much energy, whether you use raw materials or cullet. But you DO take all those bottle-size voids out of landfills.) Another difference from iron refining is that there is no slag equivalent in glassmaking. Anthony Thompson Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering University of California, Berkeley thompsonmarytony@...
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Re: glass cullet in hoppers, out of era.
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Dennis Storzek wrote:
That would be "post-consumer" recycling. The cullet being loaded at breweries is "industrial" scrap, from breakage, chipped necks and the like, and would be all one type of glass that could go directly back to the bottle manufacture for re-use. I'm sure returning cullet from the bottling plant long pre-dates post-consumer recycling.Dennis is entirely right, and the same goes for in-plant steel scrap, aluminum, etc. etc. for all kinds of manufacturing. Nowadays people often mean "post-consumer" when they say "recycling" but the kind described here certainly goes back to the 19th century and quite possibly back before the Industrial Revolution. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: glass cullet in hoppers, out of era.
Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@..., Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote:
crushed glass in happers until after glass recycling got to large enough volumes, way out of the era of this list. I can tell you where it's shipped in New England - ask the question on the OPSIG list. That would be "post-consumer" recycling. The cullet being loaded at breweries is "industrial" scrap, from breakage, chipped necks and the like, and would be all one type of glass that could go directly back to the bottle manufacture for re-use. I'm sure returning cullet from the bottling plant long pre-dates post-consumer recycling. Dennis
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Re: Cullet
Schuyler Larrabee
Blue, Chuck? I thought the cullet cars were the silver ones?
SGL Cullet was also shipped from Oneonta in special service fishbelly twin hoppers painted blue. Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO
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Builder information on D&M X128-129
mikefrommontanan
A posting came up on the Railway Preservation News trying to ID the
provenience of a couple tank cars they (Steam Railroading Institute) recently acquired. Pictures can be seen on the original posting at http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=106156#106156 Ideas? Hits or misses? If this is an off base question, my apologies in advance. Michael Seitz Missoula MT "The Steam Railroading Institute recently acquired two 8,000-gallon riveted tanks of 1940's vintage. These cars were the former D&M X-128 and X-129, and were stored for many years at Wenona Yard in Bay City, Michigan. We are in the midst of relettering these cars for restoration and photo freight service. Below is a picture of the cars at SRI, and the only historical images we have been able to find, taken in 1970's, and courtesy of FallenFlags.com Our question is this --- is there an existing database for tank cars of this type? Clearly, one of the cars was a GATX car, the other we are not entirely sure. Any help as to further history would be appreciated. We are also actively looking for photos of tank cars of this type used by Michigan industries, particularly Dow Chemical, etc. " Sincerely, TJ Gaffney SRI
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Re: Cullet
Dave Nelson
MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
I don't know about the 1940s, but I remember seeing a photo article Here in central California there were several glass container plants in Oakland, no doubt providing some combination of packing jars, beverage bottles, and ordinary table glassware, all of which would have found ready markets very close at hand. There isn't any suitable sand anywhere nearby tho... the closest that I know of was very fine beach sand near Monterey... quite a ways to be shipping sand. So my guess is they used a lot of cullet, which would have been fairly easy to come by in an urban area. I wonder if that was par-for-the-course in cities that lacked the right quality sand? ============ A story about cullet that I read somewhere: A local glass installation company, Cobbledick-Kibbe (C-K), provided plate and window glass to large office buildings under construction in San Francisco and neighboring cities. Somehow the Western Pacific convinced C-K to try their service (instead of just SP all of the time) and receive the glass at the WP depot in Oakland. But there was some reason why DF boxcars wouldn't work, so WP specified the large plate glass be carefully loaded and shipped in gondolas (covered w/ canvas); on arrival in Oakland, C-K inspectors pulled back the canvas and found all 4 gons filled w/ cullet. Needless to say, C-K continued to do business with the SP. Dave Nelson
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Re: Builder information on D&M X128-129
Charles Hladik
Mike,
If all else fails, you might try the guys at Cooper and Oshtemo Locomotive Works, _www.locomotiveworks.com_ (http://www.locomotiveworks.com) , they do a lot of Michigan freight car paint schemes. Chuck Hladik Rutland Railroad Virginia Division ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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Re: Mineral Stock piles WasRe: Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays"
Richard Townsend
I remember living on the New Cumberland (Pa.) General Depot (an army logistics facility) around the time of?cut off date for this list?where there were small stockpiles of chromium ore and other minerals adjacent to some of the railroad tracks on the facility.? The stockpiles were carefully labeled with the type of the ore and where it came from.? I specifically remember chromium ore from the USSR.? We kids had free and easy access to these stockpiles, and as a result I had some unusual ores in my childhood rock collection.?
Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon #AOLMsgPart_2_8f0794d4-10b1-4d8f-99d4-6b48cc653efd #AOLMsgPart_2_8f0794d4-10b1-4d8f-99d4-6b48cc653efd #AOLMsgPart_2_8f0794d4-10b1-4d8f-99d4-6b48cc653efd ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
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Carmer cut levers
Eric Hansmann
I received Railroad Prototype Cyc #16 recently and have been enjoying the USRA double-sheathed
boxcar overview. I note these cars were built with Carmer Cut Levers. I know many of the USRA single-sheathed cars also came with Carmer Cut Levers. Was the same Carmer design applied to both the DS and SS USRA boxcars? For that matter, was the same Carmer design applied to all as-built USRA cars? I know the PRR has some slight differences in Carmer designs between classes. As the Carmer Cut Levers were a two-part system, some handles were slightly different from application to application, as were some of the pin-pulling levers. This spurs the query if there were any differences in the Carmer designs between the different USRA freight cars, especially since the USRA cars ushered in some standardization in the components of freight car constuction. Eric Hansmann Morgantown, W. Va.
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Re: B&LE hopper trucks
Bill Navari
I did a special run of this car in two schemes, the as-built 1952 and the
1964 repaint. Both in the Stewart kit. Nobody that I know of makes these trucks at this time, although the Ulrich cars, I believe, had them. Bill Navari Bessemer Hobbies bessemerhobbies@... _http://cgi.ebay.com/12PK-B-LE-STEWART-70-TON-OFFSET-HOPPERS-1964-REPAINT_W0QQ itemZ330181376395QQihZ014QQcategoryZ38277QQcmdZViewItem?refid=store_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/12PK-B-LE-STEWART-70-TON-OFFSET-HOPPERS-1964-REPAINT_W0QQitemZ3301 81376395QQihZ014QQcategoryZ38277QQcmdZViewItem?refid=store) _http://stores.ebay.com/BESSEMER-HOBBIES_W0QQsspagenameZMEQ3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm&refi d=store_ (http://stores.ebay.com/BESSEMER-HOBBIES_W0QQsspagenameZMEQ3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm&refid=store) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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Cullet again
Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
Kalmback published "More Railroads You can Model", edited by Mike Schafer, in 1978. One of the articles was "Milwaukee Road's Beer Line" and a picture of an open hopper under the cullet shute at the new Schlitz bottling plant appears on page 48. The plant went into operation in early 1959, so it's just under the wire for the list. The photo is 1970s, but I'd guess cullet was a big product at the start of operations. Normally, one car was loaded per week, and during the summer, up to two cars per week were shipped to Chicago for recycling the broken glass. Another source for this information is "The Milwaukee Road's Beer Line" by Art Harnack, published as Special Publication Number 5 by the Milwaukee Road Historical Association.
Regards, Norm Larkin
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C&O Cars; Was "Hmmm"
Bill Darnaby
Beware of the F&C C&O 40' auto car. I tried to assemble one this summer and, thinking it didn't look right, found it to be 6" too short in height and put it away unassembled.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Bill Darnaby
Clipper
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glass cullet in hoppers, out of era.
Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
Russ didn't seem to make this clear, but you shouldn't be moving crushed glass in happers until after glass recycling got to large enough volumes, way out of the era of this list. I can tell you where it's shipped in New England - ask the question on the OPSIG list.
Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383 New England Rail Shipper Directories 19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
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Re: Concerning car travel" including strays"
Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
Posted by: "George" I remember running upon a NKP hopper in southwest Virginia on a N&W
branch back in the nineteen seventies. This was following the merger of the two roads. Kinda limits us steam era to Alton hoppers in Mississippi and Pere Marquette in Virginia I suppose. More? George Courtney ==================== You're not limited in the sense of not using the car at all. Almost any single hopper car can be seen on any railroad within reasonable distance of the owner. The limitation is that the less probable marks be a small proportion of your total hoppers. Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383 New England Rail Shipper Directories 19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
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Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays"
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Rich;
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks for confirming that. Do you know what specific ores or minerals they got at that site? You are right about Westinghouse. They did get shipments, but I don't know if you knew what they did at that site. It was some super-secret facility involved in the nuclear sub effort, and I also understand perhaps nuclear space applications, also (The Astro Nuclear Lab). Because it was so secretive, I have been unable to even obtain any info as to what they might have shipped in and out of there. It was originally the distilling facility for Large Whiskey, later bought by Overholt; Westinghouse went in there and bought the site sometime in the early 60's (my modeling period). I wish I knew more about it. Thanks for verifying the use of that site? BTW, other than a little shack they had to house the guards, was there anything else about the site you remember? Thanks, Elden ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of SUVCWORR@... Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:07 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays" Elden: Yes, that was the site.? It was in Large, PA.? At the time I was there, the tracks ended not much farther up the creek.? There was a Westinghouse facility on Rt. 51 in Large behind the Eat n Park that was also actively receiving cars at that time (late 70's).? Since it stockpile sat next to the creek and was surrounded by swamp land, we monitored the site for heavy metals runoff as well as treating the swamp for all the mosquitoes which could be found there.? Rich Orr Was that on the old Peters Creek Branch up the Mon? Just north of Clairton? Or someplace else? There was a strategic stockpile up there for a while. It was probably one of the only reasons they kept that branch open as long as it was. Besides molybdenum, I think they also stockpiled chromium, manganese, tungsten, cobalt, columbium, and nickel, in different locations, during the Cold War panic about the availability of certain "critical" metals for military use. Since they were so secret, it is funny that you not only knew about it, but were let on site. Thanks for the story!
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@... <mailto:Elden.J.Gatwood%40sad01.usace.army.mil> > To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 7:07 am Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays" Rich; Was that on the old Peters Creek Branch up the Mon? Just north of Clairton? Or someplace else? There was a strategic stockpile up there for a while. It was probably one of the only reasons they kept that branch open as long as it was. Besides molybdenum, I think they also stockpiled chromium, manganese, tungsten, cobalt, columbium, and nickel, in different locations, during the Cold War panic about the availability of certain "critical" metals for military use. Since they were so secret, it is funny that you not only knew about it, but were let on site. Thanks for the story! Oh,. and on the original subject on what was in those hoppers, limestone was probably the other one of the "big three" minerals being shipped in open hoppers. I obtained a copy of a report on how much was being shipped in hoppers, since there was a hopper shortage in the early 60's, and they cited some figures that showed what was being shipped. I suspect they did not distinguish between limestone and dolomite, since they were both used in the furnaces and looked somewhat similar, but dolomite came from different sources, so would matter if you model a particular area. Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of SUVCWORR@... <mailto:SUVCWORR%40aol.com> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:50 PM To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays" In a message dated 10/26/2007 11:40:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Carrock1998@... <mailto:Carrock1998%40aol.com> <mailto:Carrock1998%40aol.com> writes: know that molybdium (sp?) is a really weird spelling---there is a chemicalThe only reason I know about the moly is the DOD had a strategic stockpile outside Pittsburgh until the mills closed. the site was located on a branck of the PRR. Several times, I watched them unload hoppers of the stuff there. The guards were friendly and told me what it was. Guess the fact I was in a uniform and had to do site inspections for the Health Department loosened their tongues a bit. Rich Orr ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com> <http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com> > Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com <http://mail.aol.com>
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Mineral Stock piles WasRe: Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays"
SUVCWORR@...
In a message dated 10/29/2007 2:26:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Elden.J.Gatwood@... writes: Thanks for confirming that. Do you know what specific ores or minerals they got at that site? You are right about Westinghouse. They did get shipments, but I don't know if you knew what they did at that site. It was some super-secret facility involved in the nuclear sub effort, and I also understand perhaps nuclear space applications, also (The Astro Nuclear Lab). Because it was so secretive, I have been unable to even obtain any info as to what they might have shipped in and out of there. It was originally the distilling facility for Large Whiskey, later bought by Overholt; Westinghouse went in there and bought the site sometime in the early 60's (my modeling period). I wish I knew more about it. Elden: The only ores we tested for were Chromium, Zinc and Molybdenum. So I would think they were the only ones stored there. When the Homestead Works of US Steel closed the site was closed. You are correct the Westinghouse facility was a nuclear research center. It was connect with the Navy's Bettis Atomic research Facility in West Mifflin. They were the only sites in the county we could not access. Rich Rich ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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Tovrea Packing Co. reefers
SUVCWORR@...
There has been a discussion on the Railway Bullshippers group concerning the cars owned by the Tovrea Packing Co. of Phoenix, AZ.? They used the reporting marks TOVX from 1932 - 1938.? No one has sucessfully identified what type reefer or manufacture of these cars.? I don't have access to any of the appropriate ORER's to even begin to describe them.
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Rich Orr ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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Re: Cullet
drgwrail
Not steam era but to show the sue of hopper cars.....
The bottle producing plant next to the Coors brewery in Golden CO gets about 6 hopper cars of "cullet" a week. Don't know where it comes from but it is shipped in NS conventional open top coal hoppers. Cullet was also shipped from Oneonta in specal service fishbelly twin hoppers painted blue. Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO --- In STMFC@..., MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote: in Popular Science sometime in the early 1950s depicting a culletplant, in California I believe, showing how the stuff was crushed, metals removed, andthen the glass was washed and tumbled to remove sharp edges, picked over byhand to remove any foreign objects the magnets had missed, and finally loaded intohopper cars or trucks.cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives areremoved when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with thelimestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.
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