Date   

Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Stokes John
 

Au contraire, there is a hamlet in Minnesota named Hamlin. See below. There is also a Hamline (with an "e") University in St. Paul, with quite a famous choir, and at one time a well known basketball team.

Hamlin is a township in Lac qui Parle County, Minnesota.
The latitude of Hamlin is 44.943N. The longitude is -96.175W.
It is in the Central Standard time zone. Elevation is 1,093 feet.

The population, at the time of the 2000 census, was 185.
John Stokes
Bellevue, WA


To: STMFC@...: railfreightcars@...: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:23:15 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Bill,There is a major street in St Paul called "Hamline Avenue". That may be wherethis usage came from. I will agree that there is no such place as "Hamlin MN".The WFE car shop in St Paul was called "Jackson Street Shops". Think the buildingsare now gone. After WFE vacated them they were owned by a car scrapper that alsodabbled a little in locomotive re-sales.On a map if you follow the GN/NP up from 7th Street the GN splits and goes straightWest at Westminster St. The NP coninues North for a little ways before headingWest. The WFE shop was on the GN line just West of where it goes under I35E.Their main shop remains today at Hillyard WA. They do occasionaly bid on work.Overhauled a lot of BN waycars during the 80's and early 90's.Russ----- Original Message ----- From: lnbill To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, 01 November, 2007 09:31Subject: [STMFC] The location of the mysterious Hamlin, MinnesotaMany questions arose during my presention on the FGE/WFE/BRE fleet about where the heck is Hamlin, Minnesota. In exploring the documents I copied just a few days earlier in Saint Paul, Hamlin was actually the name of the Western Fruit shops in Saint Paul. Hopefully many of you in attendence are also on this list. If the Dick brothers are not on this list, can someone pass this info on to them.Bill WelchYahoo! Groups Links


Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Russ Strodtz <railfreightcars@...>
 

Bill,

There is a major street in St Paul called "Hamline Avenue". That may be where
this usage came from. I will agree that there is no such place as "Hamlin MN".

The WFE car shop in St Paul was called "Jackson Street Shops". Think the buildings
are now gone. After WFE vacated them they were owned by a car scrapper that also
dabbled a little in locomotive re-sales.

On a map if you follow the GN/NP up from 7th Street the GN splits and goes straight
West at Westminster St. The NP coninues North for a little ways before heading
West. The WFE shop was on the GN line just West of where it goes under I35E.

Their main shop remains today at Hillyard WA. They do occasionaly bid on work.
Overhauled a lot of BN waycars during the 80's and early 90's.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 01 November, 2007 09:31
Subject: [STMFC] The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota


Many questions arose during my presention on the FGE/WFE/BRE fleet
about where the heck is Hamlin, Minnesota. In exploring the documents
I copied just a few days earlier in Saint Paul, Hamlin was actually
the name of the Western Fruit shops in Saint Paul. Hopefully many of
you in attendence are also on this list. If the Dick brothers are not
on this list, can someone pass this info on to them.

Bill Welch




Yahoo! Groups Links


Prototype Rails 2008

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bob Webber asks about the room rate at Prototype Rails. Here's all the current information about the meet:

Some of you might notice the reference to the NMRA. The NMRA national management is interested in associating with RPM meets. Prototype Rails welcomes that interest which includes NMRA provided liability insurance coverage...particularly at layouts open for visitation. It is pleasing...IMO...to see the NMRA officially take an interest in the prototype modeling element of the hobby which can only increase the effectiveness of both. The NMRA's involvement with historical modeling has, I think, been overlooked. The publishing of the 1953 ORER has been extremely useful, for example, as well as the Postwar Freight Car Fleet by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta. I'll add to that Freight Terminals and Trains...originally published in 1925.

Prototype Rails remains a Railroad Prototype Modeling meet, managed and operated in the same manner by the same team as in previous years.

NMRA PROTOTYPE RAILS NMRA

COCOA BEACH, FL, JAN 4-6 2008

AN NMRA SANCTIONED EVENT

A PROTOTYPE MODELING MEET FEATURING
MODULAR LAYOUTS IN O, HO AND N SCALE

OVER 400 MODELS ON DISPLAY, PROTOTYPE BASED LAYOUTS
PLEASE BRING MODELS

Clinicians

Mike Rose Justin May Greg Komar Dick Flock Joe Oates

Robert Hundman Bill Darnaby Tom Bisset Larry Kline Bruce Smith

Andy Sperandeo Andy Harman Richard Hendrickson Tim Frederick

Scott Chatfield Ken Edmier Jim Singer Scott Mason

Steve Orth Brian Nolan Jeff Cauthen Tom Wilson Bill Schaumburg

Greg Martin Mont Switzer Tony Koester Tony Thompson Calvin Winter

John Wilkes George Eichelberger Bill Welch Lance Mindheim Chad Hewitt

Jim Murrie Roger Hinman Jared Harper John Roberts Ted Culotta

Manufacturers/Dealers: Walthers, Branchline, Atlas Models, Broadway Limited, Southern Car & Foundry, Speedwitch Models, Tangent Scale Models, Westerfield, 5th Avenue Shops, F & C, Trolleys N' Dollies, Bob's Photos, ACL/SAL HS, Dave Hoffman

HILTON HOTEL, 1550 N. Atlantic Ave. [ highway A1a ], COCOA BEACH, FL, 1-800-526-2609 or 321-799-0003. $99 Room Rate. Refer to Prototype Rails. Preregistration $35, payable to Prototype Rails, to Marty Megregian, 480 Gails Way, Merritt Island, FL 32953.

There will be op sessions available on Thursday Jan 3 at Tom Wilson's, John Wilkes and Mike Brock's layout. Those wishing to join in a session should indicate their choices in preregistration and make direct contact with the layout owner. Selection will be on a first come basis. Layouts will be available for visitation on Sunday.

For early arrivals, there will be a dinner at Durango's in Cocoa Beach Thursday evening at 7 PM. We will meet in the Hilton lobby at 6:30. Following the dinner we will return to the hotel for slide shows and mini clinics.


A special dinner on Saturday, Jan 5, for Prototype Rails attendees only will be available for $ 20/person. Tickets are required and must be purchased no later than Saturday morning. Tickets may be purchased and reserved in advance and included with the cost of registration. Registration plus dinner is $55/person. Spouses not attending presentations do not have to register. FOR INFORMATION: Contact Mike Brock at: brockm@... or 321-453-4140.


Re: Cement Hoppers - Far Ranging or Mostly Home Road?

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

If Northside
Lumber Co., in Dixon, needed to order bag cement from the Medusa
plant in Dixon, they had to receive a carload that was, at least, the
minimum weight allowed in the tariff. The local redi-mix plant also
received covered hopper loads which moved about two miles from one
business to the other. Today the tracks are gone at the old Medusa
plant which is still in business as St. Mary's Cement.

Chet French
To add to what Chet said and to make Larry Jackman grit his teeth.

If Andrews Pre-stress were to order a bulk load from NW States in the
50s. The plant would load an M&StL hopper. The M&StL would pick up the
car and take it passed Andrews (1 mile SE from plant) to weigh the car
(3-4 miles SE from plant) then take it back north and spot it at
Andrews.

If a lumber yard in town on the Milwaukee wanted a car of bags. Then
the Milwaukee would give one of the RRs servicing the plants an mty box
car for the plant pool on a transfer track. That RR would take the car
to a plant and pick up the box car billed to that lumber yard. They
would spot the car on the transfer and the Milwaukee switch crew would
pull the transfer and eventually spot the car at the lumber yard.

We modelers call this 'operations'.
Clark Propst


Re: IMWX v. IM 10' door hardware

jim peters
 

Count the valleys and not the ones with the rivets.

For the IMWX kits the doors supplied with the kit are fine or use Sylvan 5/6/5-S and early Camel door fixtures. This will take you through all the '37 AAR cars built for CN to 1946 (10'-0" IH) . . . A quick check of my CP references and I can not see anything different.

Rob, if you're by Central Hobbies on Saturday stop in and say hello, I always enjoy meeting fellow rivet counters.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC


To: STMFC@...: rdkirkham@...: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:50:15 -0700Subject: [STMFC] IMWX v. IM 10' door hardware




I'm assembling a bunch of kits that I've had sitting around for quite a while and noticed that the door hardware at the bottom of the Youngstown (?) 6/6/6 (or is that 6/8/6? - how does one count the overlapping panel section?) doors in the two kits differ, with one a more rectangular shape and the other more triangular. Are these differences based on different prototype designs - and if so, can anyone provide names & dates when they were introduced or that sort of thing. Obvious;y for modelling if I just match a photo I won't go too wrong, but I'm curious....Rob Kirkham






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The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Many questions arose during my presention on the FGE/WFE/BRE fleet
about where the heck is Hamlin, Minnesota. In exploring the documents
I copied just a few days earlier in Saint Paul, Hamlin was actually
the name of the Western Fruit shops in Saint Paul. Hopefully many of
you in attendence are also on this list. If the Dick brothers are not
on this list, can someone pass this info on to them.

Bill Welch


New FGE/WFE/BRE kits from Sunshine

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

As many of you know, Sunshine included in their new offerings at
Naperville kits to build the plywood sheathed cars built by FGE, WFE,
and BRE and the T&G sheathed cars built by BRE. As I engineered these
kits and did the patterns, I obviously have a vested interest in them.
I was frustrated to see that the "Prototype Data Sheet" had many
errors in it related to the history of the cars and that Martin
continues to call them "War Emergency" cars is a complete misnomer.
The quality of the photos was very weird.

Anyway volume 12 of Pat and Ed's RP CYC has a more accurate and
detailed history and the reproduction of the photos is very good.

Photos of the cars photetched details are in the Files section and I
will send to some painted and decaled model photos soon.

Bill Welch


Re: new Bob's Photo address

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:
I picked up a new business card from Bob at the Naperville meeting but seem to have lost it since. Does anyone have the new Kentucky address handy? TIA.
Tony,

The most important thing on the card is his e-mail address. You can now e-mail him at:

bobsphoto.train@...

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: [SPAM] Re: Re: Cement Hoppers - Far Ranging or Mostly Home Road?

Russ Strodtz <railfreightcars@...>
 

Tim,

In the late 50's, in order to avoid driving away the tourist trade, in the
state of Wisconsin much of the long haul trucking was prohibited on
weekends.

It was just something the trucking companies had to live with.

Even today most rural Wisconsin Counties ban anything other than milk
trucks from all secondary roads during the period when the frost is
coming out of the ground.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler Larrabee
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, 31 October, 2007 21:39
Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [STMFC] Re: Cement Hoppers - Far Ranging or Mostly Home Road?




From: timboconnor@...

Was it ILLEGAL to ship cement in bulk by truck before 1959???
That's just goofy!


Re: Cullet

Russ Strodtz <railfreightcars@...>
 

My vote is with Mr Thompson. That is why the cullet was sent back to
the plant that the bottles were made at. One would think that they would
almost always have batches of brown glass stewing since beer bottles
were one of their biggest products.

Another thing comes to mind. I'm sure most of us are familiar with the
heavy, sort of waxy, cardboard cartons that refillable beer was/is sold in.
That was what the new bottles were shipped in. I'm sure their thinking was
that even though they had to be taken out to be filled those cartons had
to be bought at some time in the process and their use would cut down on
breakage.

The purchasing and delivery of packaging materials may have been the
reason that there were so many CP and CN cars to be found around the
glass plants.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October, 2007 01:07
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cullet


John C. La Rue, Jr. wrote:
> I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the
> cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives
> are removed when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite
> with the limestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure
> iron.

Different process, John. In fact, colored glass is QUITE hard
to re-clarify. You can mix brown and green glass, but not put either
one into clear glass. And blue glass is a serious contaminant for any
other glass color.
There are several reasons, but an important one is that glass
melting is a very slow process, mostly due to the viscosity and
resulting slow circulation and mixing of the glass--24-hour melts are
common, whereas steelmaking can be accomplished in 90 minutes or less.
(That's the reason that glass recycling really saves little energy; the
process takes about as long, and about as much energy, whether you use
raw materials or cullet. But you DO take all those bottle-size voids
out of landfills.) Another difference from iron refining is that there
is no slag equivalent in glassmaking.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...


Re: Cement Hoppers - Far Ranging or Mostly Home Road?

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Chet,

I think Mitchell Trucking, based in Cleveland, OH was involved with cement out of Oglesby, IL also. I had a boss that started is career there. He also worked at Anderson, IN where cement was brought in by rail (Monon cov-hoppers), transferred to a silo and loaded out in trucks for final delivery. The carrier was Mitchell. The cars of cement came from either Mitchell, IN or Limedale, IN -- a pretty short haul.

Chemical Leaman Tank Lines, Inc. was big in cement in the Philadelphia and eastern PA areas.

Mont Switzer



Chet French <cfrench@...> wrote:


Mont,

Schwereman Trucking was the company that came to Dixon in 1961 to
handle the Medusa business, both bulk and bags. They may have also
been the first trucking company to get the Marquette's business at
Oglesby.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

--- In STMFC@..., Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:

Dennis,

I'm a late comer to this thread, but from what I know about
tractors and trailers the technology to do pneumatic unloading (dry
bulk) was just coming into its own in the late 1950's. I recall that
one of the largest cement haulers in the 1950's and 1960's,
Schwereman Trucking Co., Milwaukee, WI had flat bed trailers for the
bag loads as well as the cement cans.

All of the regulated rate stuff is right on. It was a lot
different then when operating authority was similar to a franchise.

Mont Switzer

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@ wrote:


Was it ILLEGAL to ship cement in bulk by truck before 1959???
That's just goofy!
Why? Most the things the ICC did were goofy, too. The state public
utilities commissions weren't nay better.

I'm sure it was never illegal to ship your own cement in your own
truck. I'm sure the issue was that it required a published tariff
before you could offer the service to others on a common carrier
basis. Without the tariff being in place, there was no impetus for
any
common carrier to purchase the specialized truck needed to ship bulk
cement, as he'd have no basis to set the rate to charge his
customers.
So, someone finally filed the tariff, and then I'm sure all the
carriers that carried BAGGED cement challenged it on the basis that
it
undercut their rates. I'm sure this issue perked through the
administrative law system for a couple years before the tariff was
finally published.

Such are the joys of regulated commerce.

Dennis





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Re: new Bob's Photo address

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Fortney wrote:
Tony, Bob's new address and # is: P. O. Box 209, Farmers, KY 40319 (606) 780-9905.
Thanks, Mike.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompsonmarytony@...


Re: Jerry White

Rod Miller
 

Clyde King, a long time friend of Jerrys, confirms along with Denny
that Jerry indeed was the owner of Kurtz Kraft. Clyde said that the
original KK models are still available but danged if I can remember who
he said makes them now.

FWIW, here is what Jerry told me about the demise of KK.

Convinced he would make a bundle, he partnered up with someone who
wanted to market transistor radios housed in a model rocket. After
Jerry had acquired the additional dedicated machinery to produce the
rocket moldings, his partner backed out. KK assets had to be sold to
pay off the loans with which that machinery had been acquired. Jerry
still owed money and went to work as an employee to pay the remainder
of the debt.

Rod

Denny Anspach wrote:

Gerry White was a fellow member of the West Bay Club in Menlo Park in
the '50s and '60s. He was a tremendously skilled modeler for
himself, and a professional custom modeler ("Superior Models", as I
recall) for others (his true day job). His speciality was O gauge locomotives, although I recall a spectacular HO PRR S-1 6-4-4-6 that
he built for some lucky person. We used to see all of these models
as they were tested on the Club's HO and O gauge layouts (the S Gauge
layout was difficult to test inasmuch as it was 40 volts DC).
He was one of the key persons behind the NMRA RP-25 wheel contour, and much of the actual engineering occurred in his shop. I do not know the details behind the segue from Kurtz to White, but Gerry indeed owned Kurtz Craft when I knew him along with a single partner
who in the end reportedly left him holding the bag, causing Kurtz Craft to be sold off.
To my knowledge, the Kurtz Craft PS-1 was the very first HO flat
styrene kit.
I have a small number of Gerry White productions, including a spectacular Winton/MaRa C&O 2-6-6-6 that he built with Frank Weiss, which even today out pulls and outshines just about any contemporary
Asian production.
One of my most peculiar memories was Gerry's mysterious desire to purchase or trade me out of a Walthers "Shuttle Jack" (a poor man's ATSF M-190 articulated gas electric). He finally gave me in trade an
entire 10 car Blue Line steel-shell silk-screen painted Broadway Limited- which I thought at the time was a pretty good deal.
As we speak, I have just spruced up a long-finished Kurtz Craft PS-1
(decorated as a c.1956 TNO PSCC) to help people my layout. Although
the underframe is rudimentary, the running boards are relatively thick, the grabs and ladders are thick (thin by standards of the day)
and the end corrugations are sort of blobby, if one lavishes some
of the simple attentions that Richard has been teaching us to do with
current ready-to-run styrene, the car can and does look quite presentable within any string of finer, newer models.
Note that the ladders, the bracket grabs, and the running board lateral grabs were all separate 3-D moldings- revolutionary at the time.
Denny


Re: new Bob's Photo address

Mike Fortney
 

Tony, Bob's new address and # is: P. O. Box 209, Farmers, KY 40319
(606) 780-9905.

Mike Fortney

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

I picked up a new business card from Bob at the Naperville
meeting but seem to have lost it since. Does anyone have the new
Kentucky address handy? TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Jerry White

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Gerry White was a fellow member of the West Bay Club in Menlo Park in the '50s and '60s. He was a tremendously skilled modeler for himself, and a professional custom modeler ("Superior Models", as I recall) for others (his true day job). His speciality was O gauge locomotives, although I recall a spectacular HO PRR S-1 6-4-4-6 that he built for some lucky person. We used to see all of these models as they were tested on the Club's HO and O gauge layouts (the S Gauge layout was difficult to test inasmuch as it was 40 volts DC).

He was one of the key persons behind the NMRA RP-25 wheel contour, and much of the actual engineering occurred in his shop. I do not know the details behind the segue from Kurtz to White, but Gerry indeed owned Kurtz Craft when I knew him along with a single partner who in the end reportedly left him holding the bag, causing Kurtz Craft to be sold off.

To my knowledge, the Kurtz Craft PS-1 was the very first HO flat styrene kit.

I have a small number of Gerry White productions, including a spectacular Winton/MaRa C&O 2-6-6-6 that he built with Frank Weiss, which even today out pulls and outshines just about any contemporary Asian production.

One of my most peculiar memories was Gerry's mysterious desire to purchase or trade me out of a Walthers "Shuttle Jack" (a poor man's ATSF M-190 articulated gas electric). He finally gave me in trade an entire 10 car Blue Line steel-shell silk-screen painted Broadway Limited- which I thought at the time was a pretty good deal.

As we speak, I have just spruced up a long-finished Kurtz Craft PS-1 (decorated as a c.1956 TNO PSCC) to help people my layout. Although the underframe is rudimentary, the running boards are relatively thick, the grabs and ladders are thick (thin by standards of the day) and the end corrugations are sort of blobby, if one lavishes some of the simple attentions that Richard has been teaching us to do with current ready-to-run styrene, the car can and does look quite presentable within any string of finer, newer models.

Note that the ladders, the bracket grabs, and the running board lateral grabs were all separate 3-D moldings- revolutionary at the time.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Cars for shipment of nuclear materials processing facilities

Frank Greene
 

To carry or to escort?
KL
L&N 1650 - 1653 were baggage dormitory cars rebuilt from 10-sec/3dbr Pullmans. Steve Johnson's L&N Color Guide, Vol. 2 states "...they were assigned to haul nuclear material for atomic/hydrogen weapons to and from the AEC's facility at Oak Ridge, TN.... Dorm space was provided for four armed security personnel ... stenciling near the side doors 'ASSIGNED UNITED STATES ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION LOADING ONLY. WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO L&N R. R. OAK RIDGE TENN.'"

The caption for a photo of 1653 at Memphis in 1976 notes it is accompanying an Oak Ridge Operation Office (OROX) box car. So, escort service as well.

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


new Bob's Photo address

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I picked up a new business card from Bob at the Naperville meeting but seem to have lost it since. Does anyone have the new Kentucky address handy? TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


IMWX v. IM 10' door hardware

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I'm assembling a bunch of kits that I've had sitting around for quite a while and noticed that the door hardware at the bottom of the Youngstown (?) 6/6/6 (or is that 6/8/6? - how does one count the overlapping panel section?) doors in the two kits differ, with one a more rectangular shape and the other more triangular. Are these differences based on different prototype designs - and if so, can anyone provide names & dates when they were introduced or that sort of thing. Obvious;y for modelling if I just match a photo I won't go too wrong, but I'm curious....

Rob Kirkham


Looking for Steve Hile

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Steve if you on this list please contact me off list. I have a question
about the UTLX tank car you had at Naperville.

Also, very nice RI Boxcar presentation.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: [SPAM] Re: Re: Cement Hoppers - Far Ranging or Mostly Home Road?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

From: timboconnor@...

Was it ILLEGAL to ship cement in bulk by truck before 1959???
That's just goofy!


Tim, I grew up just above the NY/PA border, and my family had occasion to travel into the wilds of
Pennsylvania from time to time. My memories of the roads there would lead me to think that the PUC
might well have been protecting the roadways and especially the bridges, not so much on the main
roads, but on the back roads. Once you let a truck out there, they can go anywhere, and Load Limit
signs on bridges are not exactly read very carefully by the local trucking drivers. It's possible
by '59, there had been sufficient work done to upgrade the highways so as to make it safe to let the
cement trucks (which are likely to be very heavy) out to roam freely on the roads.

This is in contrast to what I've seen of Pennsylvania's more rural roadways today, beyond the scope
of this list. They are good, well built and drained, and appear to be well maintained. Very, very
different from what I remember as a kid.

SGL

126241 - 126260 of 193499