Date   

ash

ed_mines
 

How was ash from burning coal discarded?

I know railroads used it as fill. Was ash collected from homeowners for
anything but the dump? If so, how was it shipped? The ash I'm
accustomed to (from charcoal) would blow all over.

Ed


Re: Linde Boxcar tankcar decal help

Tim O'Connor
 

I think Branchline produced a 1937 Yardmaster kit decorated for Linde.
Just swap the ends and roof with Stan's, do a little color matching, and
you've got the car!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...>
Brian, Stan told me that Mark Vaughan will make a set. I don't remember
if me told me which color scheme. May be awhile.
Clark Propst


Re: Linde Boxcar tankcar decal help

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Brian, Stan told me that Mark Vaughan will make a set. I don't remember
if me told me which color scheme. May be awhile.
Clark Propst


Re: NMRA publications was Re: Prototype Rails 2008

Larry Kline
 

Jerry Glow wrote:
Yea, the add is misleading (to me) I assume "post war" means post
WWII but the dates noted are PRE or during WW II. Also my calendar
showed that the 1st half of the 20th century was mostly pre war. So
what ARE the years of coverage?

Others have already pointed out that the photos in the book were
almost all taken in the immediate post-WWII period.

The book subtitle, which is readable in the Scale Rails ad, is: North
American freight car DESIGNS from 1898 to 1947

One of the goals that Ted and I had in writing the book was to
describe the history of North American freight car design. The design
history information is included in the book introduction, the
introduction to each chapter, and the photo captions. The photos in
the book show freight cars that were designed between 1898 and 1947.
Freight cars often remain in service for a long time. I just posted a
table from the book, and originally from the 1949-51 Car Builder's
Cyclopedia, that show the distribution of freight car ages on
December 31, 1946. The table is in the files section. The file name
is: Freight car age 12-31-46.jpg.

I didn't write or review the ad copy and I agree that it could be
clearer.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Hello again

Philip Lord <plord@...>
 

Thanks Bruce, and since you are in 1944, perhaps we should connect via email. I would love to share stories, especially about how nobody does WWII vintage vehicles to any great extent. But I could do 1944 as well as 1945, as I was living "on the tracks" most of 1944 and 1945. Problem is, I was only 2 years old in 1944, and the fragmentary memories I have, which is the inspiration for my layout, probably came the next year, when I was 3.

Notice I said "in 1944" because if you are like me, part of us in stuck on our layouts firmly rooted in the past. If only we could get that small.

Phil

Philip Lord, Jr.
17 Overlook Drive
Averill Park, NY 12018-2523
plord@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hello again


Phil,

While experimental roller bearing trucks were in use prior to WWII, you
are correct in your belief that their widespread use came much later than
the 1945 period you model.

Regards
Bruce (modeling 1944)

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Russ Strodtz <railfreightcars@...>
 

I did not even know this thread was about reweigh locations or I would have
kept my mouth shut. Richard has at least agreed that there was a shop at
Jackson Street.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: RICHARD REMIARZ
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 01 November, 2007 20:25
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota


Being from Minnesota, I was one of the people that asked Bill about the location of Hamlin at Naperville. I promised Bill to check my GN station lists when I got home. I just looked through my copies of the Great Northern Railway Official List of Officers, Agents, and Stations for 1956, 1963, and 1969. There is no station called Hamlin or Hamline listed in any of the booklets. The back of the 1956 book list stations abandoned since 1930, and there is no Hamlin or Hamline listed there either. The books also list the locations of all scales on the GN, both railroad and industry owned. There are 3 scales listed in St. Paul in these books. Two are industries (Capital Milling and Minnesota Ry-Products Co.) The third scale is railroad owned with its location listed as St. Paul-Como Ave. This would be near Hamline Avenue, and fit with Michael Mang's previous comments copied below. Unfortunately, I don't know what the symbol was for this scale. A 1927 list of scales on the GN doesn't list this scale, but do list scales at railroad shops at Dale St. and Jackson St.

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz
Vadnais Heights, MN (just North of St. Paul)


Re: Brake Hoses Redux.

B.T. Charles
 

Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:
...that the angle cock is rotated 30º
clockwise on the air pipe (viewed facing the car
end), the purpose being obviously that the two
facing cocks on adjacent coupled cars actually
squarely face each other on the same vertical
plane.
While it would be impossibly small to see in HO, there is a casting
mark on the threaded end of a brake hose, on one side of the six sided
area where the wrench is used. Sometimes it will actually have "Top"
cast in, but most of the time it is just a indent, or the name of the
company. While the angle cock is mounted at 30º, the mark on the hose
is matched to the break mark in the angle cock casting. In short, too
late, the reason for this is that the hoses will not slip apart at the
glad hands if not mounted close to the 30º mark, and they will stretch
quite far before breaking! When assembling hoses, the glad hand is
matched with the threaded fitting at the other end of the hose. Hope
this helps...

Rome Romano


Re: Hello again

Bruce Smith
 

On Fri, November 2, 2007 5:02 am, Philip Lord wrote:
One of the cars (and I am ashamed to admit that in my unorganized workshop
the trucks got separated from the car they came on, so could have been a
40' boxcar or a 50' gondola) came with trucks that are roller bearing with
three springs. I poked around for an online typology of trucks, and had
one on my PC that someone had pointed me to last year, but lost it in the
effort to clean out my hard drive. But I could not answer this basic
question: Would this truck have been seen in 1945? My impression is that
these trucks came in significantly later.
Phil,

While experimental roller bearing trucks were in use prior to WWII, you
are correct in your belief that their widespread use came much later than
the 1945 period you model.

Regards
Bruce (modeling 1944)

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Hello again

Philip Lord <plord@...>
 

Hi List Members,

I think I was on this list a while back when I started my layout, but found most of the discussion was too detailed for where I was at that point, so took a "leave of absence". Since then I finished my layout, which is a prototype area on the LVRR set in the year 1945. And now I am taking the collection of freight cars I collected at train shows, on Ebay, as gifts (not sure I ever purchased a new car in the box yet....), and some of these are in need of lots of time in the shops before they are ready to run.

All I was concerned with as I collected these cars was if the built date was pre-1944 and the railroad would have cars that would have shown up in New York State at the end of WWII.

So now I am more focused on weathering these cars, getting good wheel sets on them and making sure the couplers work. Most of the cars came with some sort of Bettendorf-type trucks (journal boxes and two springs).

One of the cars (and I am ashamed to admit that in my unorganized workshop the trucks got separated from the car they came on, so could have been a 40' boxcar or a 50' gondola) came with trucks that are roller bearing with three springs. I poked around for an online typology of trucks, and had one on my PC that someone had pointed me to last year, but lost it in the effort to clean out my hard drive. But I could not answer this basic question: Would this truck have been seen in 1945? My impression is that these trucks came in significantly later.

So hello again to all, and pardon me asking such basic questions.

Phil Lord, Jr.
Averill Park, NY
plord@...
RR project website: http://home.att.net/~p_lord2/newwoodstock2.html


Re: Brake Hoses Redux.

James Eckman
 

Posted by: "Rob Kirkham"
Unfortunately, the water dunk was counter productive. In metals work, once
its red hot you want it to cool slowly - fast cooling only hardens it up
again.
Sorry, this is not true for brass. The only way it hardens is by work hardening, i.e. compressing it in some fashion. Jewelers often plunge wire that has just been heated for annealing into pickle baths. See a books such as "The Complete Metalsmith" by Tim McCreight or possibly
"Practical Casting, a Studio Reference" by Tim McCreight. Filled with lots of information on manipulating small metal bits! Including low tech photo-etching, soldering, bending, the works.

Some of the little jeweler tricks may spark some ideas for sturdier brake hose mountings. These are cheap books and often available used.

Jim Eckman


Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Stokes John
 

Sorry, Brian, if I misplaced the Hamline-Midway neighborhood on the SE side of St. Paul. That is where it seemed to be on the map, but I didn't have a full city map. Hope you have luck in getting some answers, and have a great time at the NPRHA meet. I'm a long time member of both societies, out here at the Western end of the GN and NP Empires.

John S.


To: STMFC@...: briankd.usf.net@...: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:26:06 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Thank you for the information Bill and Russ. I have an older GN map that shows the former Hamline yard in the current location of the BNSF intermodal teminal just east of the main Minnesta Transfer yard. I will be at the Jackson St. Roundhouse (Minnesota Transportation Museum) on Sat. for a NPRHA local meet and if any of the GN folks are there I will bring up your and Russ's comments. Brian Dick. Currently living in the Hamline-Midway neighborhood on St. Paul's west side.----- Original Message ----- From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>To: <STMFC@...>Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:35 AMSubject: [STMFC] The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota> Many questions arose during my presention on the FGE/WFE/BRE fleet> about where the heck is Hamlin, Minnesota. In exploring the documents> I copied just a few days earlier in Saint Paul, Hamlin was actually> the name of the Western Fruit shops in Saint Paul. Hopefully many of> you in attendence are also on this list. If the Dick brothers are not> on this list, can someone pass this info on to them.>> Bill Welch>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---


Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

Stokes John
 

So maybe the reference in the first place should have been to the HamlinE re-weigh station or transfer, unless Bill has a written reference that says Hamlin. Which is possible. But then we would not have found out that there is really a Hamlin, Minnesota, in M&SL territory, and that the Hamline Transfer, where presumably the WFE facility was, is in South East St. Paul. I still think that the GNHS may have some definitive information on this, and maybe some photographs, or maybe some historical collection in the Twin Cities may have the answer. Interesting trivia.

John S.


To: STMFC@...: rremiarz@...: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:25:51 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota




Being from Minnesota, I was one of the people that asked Bill about the location of Hamlin at Naperville. I promised Bill to check my GN station lists when I got home. I just looked through my copies of the Great Northern Railway Official List of Officers, Agents, and Stations for 1956, 1963, and 1969. There is no station called Hamlin or Hamline listed in any of the booklets. The back of the 1956 book list stations abandoned since 1930, and there is no Hamlin or Hamline listed there either. The books also list the locations of all scales on the GN, both railroad and industry owned. There are 3 scales listed in St. Paul in these books. Two are industries (Capital Milling and Minnesota Ry-Products Co.) The third scale is railroad owned with its location listed as St. Paul-Como Ave. This would be near Hamline Avenue, and fit with Michael Mang's previous comments copied below. Unfortunately, I don't know what the symbol was for this scale. A 1927 list of scales on the GN doesn't list this scale, but do list scales at railroad shops at Dale St. and Jackson St.Sincerely,Rich RemiarzVadnais Heights, MN (just North of St. Paul)P.S. Bill, thanks for the excellent job on both clinics. I enjoyed your talk at Naperville. I'm not a GN expert, but I found on anold map of the Twin Cities a GN yard (near Hamline University) called"Hamline Transfer". There is a Koppers Coke, and some other unlabeledtrackage on the map just south and a little west of the NP's Como Shops.There is also a GN Engineer's contract here:http://www.jaysworks.com/1637/agree/gnhog.html<http://www.jaysworks.com/1637/agree/gnhog.html> that says "Transferassignments, as now constituted, include such service between the followingpoints: Saint Paul: Between Como Yard or points East of Como Yard and Hamline, W. F.E. Shop Yard, Koppers Coke, or Fair Grounds, or points West thereof." Sincethese points are all in very close proximity, I would believe that the WFEcars weighed at Hamlin(e) are being weighed in this vicinity.Michael Mang


Fw: NPRHA - Fall East End Meet

briankd.usf.net@...
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:32 PM
Subject: NPRHA - Fall East End Meet


Please bring a model or two to display and prepare a 3 to 5 minute talk on its history. Thank you. Mike Borkan

-----------------------------------------------



Northern Pacific Railway Historical Assn

East End Meet

Saturday, November 3, 2007 at Noon



Archives Office at the

Jackson Street Roundhouse Museum



Presentations:

Northern Pacific Iron Ore Operations

by Pat Dorin



Henry Villard

by Larry Schrenk



Immigration and the Northern Pacific

by Mike Borkan



Model Show-and-Tell










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.


--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---


Re: The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota

briankd.usf.net@...
 

Thank you for the information Bill and Russ. I have an older GN map that shows the former Hamline yard in the current location of the BNSF intermodal teminal just east of the main Minnesta Transfer yard. I will be at the Jackson St. Roundhouse (Minnesota Transportation Museum) on Sat. for a NPRHA local meet and if any of the GN folks are there I will bring up your and Russ's comments. Brian Dick. Currently living in the Hamline-Midway neighborhood on St. Paul's west side.

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:35 AM
Subject: [STMFC] The location of the mysterious Hamlin, Minnesota


Many questions arose during my presention on the FGE/WFE/BRE fleet
about where the heck is Hamlin, Minnesota. In exploring the documents
I copied just a few days earlier in Saint Paul, Hamlin was actually
the name of the Western Fruit shops in Saint Paul. Hopefully many of
you in attendence are also on this list. If the Dick brothers are not
on this list, can someone pass this info on to them.

Bill Welch




Yahoo! Groups Links




--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---


Re: Brake Hoses Redux.

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Well, you learn something new every day. Thanks for pointing that out Tony. I take it this turns out to be a tip for more effective brass modelling generally - quick cooling it to minimize oxidation and build up of unsolderable scale and gunk?

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Brake Hoses Redux.


Rob Kirkham wrote:
Unfortunately, the water dunk was counter productive. In metals work,
once its red hot you want it to cool slowly - fast cooling only
hardens it up again.
This would be true for steel, Rob, but not for brass. If anything,
cooling it quickly reduces oxidation during cool-down.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links





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IMWX v. IM 10' door hardware

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks Jim,

You've guessed correctly - I am doing both CPR and CNR cars. What I noticed in one resource on the CPR cars was the use of earlier style latch equipment. This includes a curved metal piece - see the photos of CP 228249 & CP 228236 at p.73 in Kline & Culotta's The Postwar Freight Car Fleet. These cars also use the more triangular shaped rolling mechanisms. The CNR car on p.70 - with NSC 2 end - appears to use the more rectangular shaped part. Too late for some of my models, but from here on I'll be more accurate.

I usually get into Central Hobbies Friday afternoon between 4 and 6 - I live too far away to get in most Saturdays, but I'll be at Trains '07, and might catch you there. Hal and Bill will be able to point me out.

Rob


Re: Brake Hoses Redux.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Unfortunately, the water dunk was counter productive. In metals work, once its red hot you want it to cool slowly - fast cooling only hardens it up again.
This would be true for steel, Rob, but not for brass. If anything, cooling it quickly reduces oxidation during cool-down.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Linde Boxcar tankcar decal help

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

while at Naperville, I picked up one of Stan R's conversion kits for the
Linde cryogenic boxcars. when I got home I read RPC 14 and saw Champ made a
set HB 144a for the brown boxcar scheme and one for the later green scheme
that Stan had his car painted. Microscale also has decals for the later
schemes. The Champ website indicates HB-144a is out of stock. Does anyone
have a set or know where I can find a set?Does any other manufacturer make
decals for this car? Thanks
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Brake Hoses Redux.

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Denny this is very interesting, so thanks for continuing to update the list with your efforts. One point worth noting: You said:
"Jack Burgess inquired as to whether or not they
could be annealed. [snip] I held the air hose in a gas
burner flame until dull red and then dunked it in
a nearby glass of water [snip]"

Unfortunately, the water dunk was counter productive. In metals work, once its red hot you want it to cool slowly - fast cooling only hardens it up again. I suppose its all a matter of degree, but I suggest you try to let them air cool instead. (I purchased a special soldering surface from a jewellery manufacturer that works good for this sort of work).

Regards,

Rob Kirkham


Brake Hoses Redux.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Since my last post on this fascinating subject,
quite a bit has gone under the bridge, and I have
gained considerable wisdom thereby:

As you recall I had purchased brass air hoses in
bulk from PSC on special order (i.e. they cast
them to order), and I found that there was a
learning curve in effectively adapting them to
our usual freight car modeling. A major problem
was that when shaping them, they tended to break
right at a very thin critical point between the
angle cock and the hose. An experienced modeler
also using these brass hoses has related to me
that he thinks that the installation "loss" is
perhaps around 10%. My initial loss was higher,
but has significantly subsided in the interim.

Jack Burgess inquired as to whether or not they
could be annealed. Good question, and I have
tried it- and it seems to work to some
substantial degree (I held the air hose in a gas
burner flame until dull red and then dunked it in
a nearby glass of water). I did curl up and lose
most of the air pipe on one hose by getting it
too hot, but all in all, it is worthwhile.

Jack also reported the fact (new to me, although
I should have known better after all of these
years) that the angle cock is rotated 30º
clockwise on the air pipe (viewed facing the car
end), the purpose being obviously that the two
facing cocks on adjacent coupled cars actually
squarely face each other on the same vertical
plane. Off list, Dennis Storzek has also sent me
some wonderful photos graphically depicting this.
This factoid simplifies things immensely inasmuch
as for most installations, all one needs to do to
shape the hose is to grasp the hose proper just
beyond the critically-thin section and gently
curl it downward almost to a vertical stance just
as gravity would encourage any hanging rubber
hose with a heavy weight on the end.

Before heading to Naperville, I installed brass
hoses on five cars, one styrene and four resin,
four of which I wrapped in plastic sheeting,
packed in fitted foam boxes, and took to the
show. Four individual air hose installations did
not make it. The hoses were great, but their
plastic or resin mounts were not. Outside
pressure on the hoses simply leveraged the mounts
beyond what they could stand. Part of this was
poor packing on my part, and more generally, it
indicates that the job is not finished: we need
good solid well anchored air hose brackets.

Keep in mind, all air hoses survived to live
again; the air hose brackets did not.

The only ones commonly available are Kadee's,
which I have since been told were more common
than just log cars, but still were relatively
unusual. These can and do work well providing
that once the bracket is cemented in place, it is
further anchored by driving a wire "drift pin"
through the base in to the underside of the car
or end (#76 drill), and ACC it in place. I
personally just use any one of the clipped off
wire grab iron remnants on the bench top, and
simply drill through to size.

According to Dennis' estimates, he feels that
about half of the cars in our interest era
1920-60 in broad terms just used a simple metal
strap 4-5" wide projecting out and sloping
gently down from under the end sill to suspend
the end of the air pipe and its attached angle
coek/air hose below with a U bolt. This strap
had some bracing of course, but the concept and
execution was pretty simple.

A number of our kits have included these
strap-type brackets in cast resin, the most
recent for me being a Sunshine SS Milwaukee
boxcar of c. 1922. These good looking, but
precarious brackets on this car did not survive
the leverage of the brass hoses during the trip,
and IMHO would not have survived long in routine
handling/operations otherwise under any
circumstances.

Finely done styrene brake hose hanger/brackets of
a slightly different type on a 50' Branchline
steel boxcar lasted even less time: both were
broken prior to the car even being put on the
track for the first time!

So, my attention is now directed to just how can
we have made some bulletproof brass air hose
brackets that have locating/anchoring pins that
can be inserted into drilled holes on the
underside of the car ends. My intention to to
first concentrate on developing some sort of
strap-type hanger that would be fine for at last
half of the cars we are doing, and perhaps be
acceptable by many for an awful lot of the
remaining cars as well.

Other air hose variables not mentioned, but have to be considered:
1) Compatibility with couplers with magnetic
coupling pins still intact. This issue includes
the pin on the coupler on the car A, and the pin
on the adjacent car B to which it wishes to be
coupled.

2) The effect of the wide coupler box. The air
pipe comes out right alongside the box right on
the central horizontal axis of the coupler
drawbar and head. If you are attempting to model
the air pipe right from the angle cock back to
the bolster, one has to consider the interference
of the wheels, which in most instances will
prevent it. With the narrow box, accurate
modeling of this detail becomes a greater
possibility.

I have more information to share on this subject,
but will retire for now. Dennis has generously
given me permission to share his photos and
graphics on this subject, and I will post them to
Files in the next day or so.

Dennis is a precious resource in our hobby.

BTW, I have a VERY limited number of packets (@36
count) of brass air hoses in excess of what I
will ever need, which I will sell for my expenses
(c. @ $0.27-0.30) and a SSASE. Please contact me
ONLY off-list.


Denny








--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

127421 - 127440 of 194731