Date   

Re: N&W FD Flatcars from N&W Historical Society-Thoughts?

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks. 11 unevenly spaced stake pockets... hmmm doesn't the old
Athearn 40 foot flat have 11 (evenly spaced) stake pockets? Does the
spacing of the Red Caboose pockets match this N&W flat?

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Tim O'Connor asked:
"Isn't an FD a depressed center flat car?"

Normally, yes, but in this specific case, it's N&W CLASS FD:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu./imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2491.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu./imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2490.jpeg


Ben Hom


Re: N&W FD Flatcars from N&W Historical Society-Thoughts?

ogdentowebercanyon
 

What year were these cars built? Looked through the archives and
mentioned posts but didn't see anything about build dates. Thanks.

Jason Sanford


These are custom decorated Red Caboose kits. According to Jim Brewer
in post #25482, the kit is close but not exact.


Ben Hom


Re: ash

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

The area around the Field Museum on Chicago's lakefront is largely
fill brought up from the
Chicago Tunnel System (an extensive narrow gauge electric network
that ran under most of
the downtown area, connecting the Post Office, RR freight stations,
stores, and many buildings).
Besides delivery of coal and packages, etc.., one of the major uses
of the system was removal
of ash and cinders from served buildings...
I haven't responded to this because it really seems to be off topic
for this list, but what the heck, list traffic is slow anyway.

Like Charlie, I'm a long time Chicago resident, and my reply to Phil
Dove is that the situation didn't look all that different here, as
long as there was widespread burning of coal for heating. We too had
ash cans. In Chicago, one, two, and three family residences qualified
for "free" (tax supported) rubbish collection. As far as I know, the
city crews would take ashes, however, an awful lot was diverted by
homeowners for the uses already mentioned, or simply dumped in the
alley to fill the ever present potholes. Come to think of it, the
alleys used to be paved with cinders, most likely from the City of
Chicago's internally generated ash from schools and water pumping plants.

Commercial buildings and multi-family residences with more that three
units had to contract for rubbish removal, and that's where their
cinders and ash went. In some cases this was collected by dedicated
trucks, because a full load of cinders could be disposed of for free
(there was never any lack of places to dump "clean" fill around
Chicago) but loads with organic wastes (what we used to call "garbage"
before the P.C. term came into vogue) had to go to the either a
landfill or incinerator, which charged a fee for each load brought in.
That being said, there were certainly enough instances where a can of
still hot ashes went into the "garbage truck" and it wasn't uncommon
to see a driver with his load dumped on the street and the fire
department hosing it down after it caught fire in his truck.

I guess the point of all this is there was really no rail traffic
generated by all this; most every place in the US needed a source of
fill for continued development and construction. The waste product
likely to be handled by rail was fly ash from coal fired power plants,
and that's not the same as cinders (but it may be what was used in
"cinder block")

The only large scale movement of cinders by rail I can think of would
be the disposal of the output of the railroads own ash pits, and these
only went a short distance in company service cars to places where
fill, or secondary track ballast, was needed.

Dennis


Re: ash

Charlie Vlk
 

The area around the Field Museum on Chicago's lakefront is largely fill brought up from the
Chicago Tunnel System (an extensive narrow gauge electric network that ran under most of
the downtown area, connecting the Post Office, RR freight stations, stores, and many buildings).
Besides delivery of coal and packages, etc.., one of the major uses of the system was removal
of ash and cinders from served buildings. There was a track to the surface in the area of
Soldier Field / Field Museum for dumping of the ashes/cinders. An electric motor and several cars
were left in the basement of the Field Museum when operations ceased and they were recently
donated to the Illinois Railway Museum.
Charlie Vlk

....and in the US garbage removal, water, sewer, etc.. used to be provided as part of local taxes until somebody
figured out you could outsource them to political donators and charge taxpayers extra for them while
not proportionately reducing the tax payments. We used to call garbage cans "ash cans" as well....


Re: N&W FD Flatcars from N&W Historical Society-Thoughts?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
"Isn't an FD a depressed center flat car?"

Normally, yes, but in this specific case, it's N&W CLASS FD:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu./imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2491.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu./imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2490.jpeg


Ben Hom


Re: ash

Philip Dove <philip.dove@...>
 

Guys have you never heard a domestic Trash can get called an Ash can? In the UK ash (which was really a mix of ash and cinders) from domestic fires was put in the trash. A difference in disposal habits might arise because rubbish removal is paid for by local taxes in the UK whereas I believe rubbish removal is by contract in the US, So British householders had little incentive not to put ash in the bin. If you were a keen gardener you might sieve the ash and dig it into the soil to lighten the soil, cinders could be used for paths of very light foundation for paving slabs etc. In Winter it was excellent for putting on Ice and snow, especially if it was still hot. When the snow melted you got a lot of crud on the path and drive but when it dried out it blew away to wherever dust goes. I know of a huge area ( 4 or 5 acres) where a there is a heap of ash from locomotive depots to a depth of over twenty feet. the railway built a small spur out from an raised area and just kept dumping Ash and cinders. Quite probably the area was used as a dump for over a century, hence it's size. If Loco ashes were put into freight cars with wood sides and floors you occasionally set fire to the car, Steel sided cars just distorted. The ashes could hold their heat for days, if they were in a dense heap.
Regards Philip Dove

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Bishop
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 05 November 2007 02:13
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ash


My uncle used to dump loads of it in his driveway in Maine every couple of years, back in the 50s. It was free and kept the dirt down.

Steve Bishop

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:
Ed,
Intriguing question. Given the amount of ash and clinker in my back
yard and my neighbours, it would certainly seem that alot of it was
buried in the yards.
Pierre Oliver

>
> How was ash from burning coal discarded?
>
> I know railroads used it as fill. Was ash collected from homeowners
for
> anything but the dump? If so, how was it shipped? The ash I'm
> accustomed to (from charcoal) would blow all over.
>
> Ed
>

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Re: OB Double door Box Car

Tim O'Connor
 

Also for HO scale, add Walthers to that list. And the Accurail single
door cars can be kitbashed easily into 1 1/2 door cars using parts
from NERS. Resin cars also were done by Steam Shack, and Ron
Van Werder [sic?] did a Rock Island car.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>

Many single sheathed auto cars lasted in revenue service through
the 1950s and into the 1960s, and cars of this type have been modeled
in styrene by Model Die Casting (now Athearn) and in resin by Westerfield,
Sunshine, Speedwitch, and Funaro & Camerlengo.


Re: N&W FD Flatcars from N&W Historical Society-Thoughts?

Tim O'Connor
 

Isn't an FD a depressed center flat car?

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Jason Sanford asked:
"I noticed that the N&W Historical Society sells N&W FD flatcars?
They say high quality but don't mention who makes the cars? Anyone
know. Are they pre-painted kits such as a Red Caboose?"

http://www.nwhs.org/commissary/models.html

These are custom decorated Red Caboose kits. According to Jim Brewer
in post #25482, the kit is close but not exact.

Ben Hom


Re: N&W FD Flatcars from N&W Historical Society-Thoughts?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jason Sanford asked:
"I noticed that the N&W Historical Society sells N&W FD flatcars?
They say high quality but don't mention who makes the cars? Anyone
know. Are they pre-painted kits such as a Red Caboose?"

http://www.nwhs.org/commissary/models.html

These are custom decorated Red Caboose kits. According to Jim Brewer
in post #25482, the kit is close but not exact.


Ben Hom


N&W FD Flatcars from N&W Historical Society-Thoughts?

ogdentowebercanyon
 

I noticed that the N&W Historical Society sells N&W FD flatcars? They
say high quality but don't mention who makes the cars? Anyone know.
Are they pre-painted kits such as a Red Caboose? Thanks.

http://www.nwhs.org/commissary/models.html



Jason Sanford


MRS roundroof boxcar, was Re: Decals for N&W Roundroof Boxcar from W&R Imports?

Mark Heiden
 

Tim,

There's a photo of MRS 7010 available on the pay side of the NEB&W
website:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=20470#

Unfortunately that's the only photo I'm aware of.

Mark Heiden

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Speaking of which, has anyone seen a photo of a Manufacturer's
Railway ex-DT&I ex-NP X31b? Matt Herson reported some ex-NP cars
went to MRS.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Decals for N&W Roundroof Boxcar from W&R Imports?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 6, 2007, at 7:44 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

The W&R cars have flush roofs... As did the NP ex-DT&I 40' cars.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a photo of a Manufacturer's
Railway ex-DT&I ex-NP X31b? Matt Herson reported some ex-NP cars
went to MRS.
I have two photos of the MRS 7000-7049 series round-roof auto cars,
both dating from the 1960s. But those cars didn't turn up on the MRS
roster until after 1960, so they're outside the STMFC time limits.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: OB Double door Box Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 6, 2007, at 7:41 AM, Dave Vinci wrote:

I was looking through some of my RR books and came across two photos
that show an outside braced double door box car. In neither case can
any lettering be seen but the cars appear to be standard USRA types.

Anyone know which roads ran such a car or know of a source for a
drawing or print of such a car?
Dave, let's begin with a terminological issue. Some of us on this list
are trying to stamp out the use by modelers and model manufacturers of
the term "outside braced." The term universally used in the railroad
technical literature was "single sheathed" (in contrast to double
sheathed, where either wood or steel sheathing was applied outside the
body framing).

You don't indicate whether the cars you cite were forty or fifty feet
in length, but large numbers of single sheathed double door automobile
box cars were built between the mid-teens and the early 1930s in both
sizes and for many railroads, though few of them bore more than a
remote resemblance to the USRA standard fifty ton single sheathed box
car design. Many examples are shown (sometimes with drawings) in the
Car Builders' Cyclopedias of that era. There are also numerous photos
in my "Focus on Freight Cars, Vol. 1" (Speedwitch Media) and in Kline
and Culotta's "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" (National Model RR Assn.)
It's worth noting that many cars of this type were originally built
with 10' wide 1-1/2 side doors which were later enlarged to 12' wide
double doors. Many single sheathed auto cars lasted in revenue service
through the 1950s and into the 1960s, and cars of this type have been
modeled in styrene by Model Die Casting (now Athearn) and in resin by
Westerfield, Sunshine, Speedwitch, and Funaro & Camerlengo.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Proto-West 70ton flat car kits

Larry Wolohon
 

--- In STMFC@..., "leakinmywaders" <leakinmywaders@...>
wrote:

There were a few reports posted on this list a while back of slow
delivery in response to orders of these resin kits for 70-ton
AAR-design 52ft 6in flat cars.

http://www.protowestmodels.com/ProtoWest_HO_Kits.htm

Have the delivery delays been cleared up? And can anyone who's got
one in hand or built one up perhaps share a brief report? I'm
thinking of placing an order...Thnx,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
I have almost finished building the the 2 cars(2 cars/set) that I
bought last summer @ the National Train show in Detroit. They are
ready to be decalled. They are nice models, the body castings are
very nice. The cars match the plans I found in 1943 Car Builders
Cyclopedia, reprinted by Newton Gregg, Train Shed Cyclopedia #17.
They go together well. The biggest issue is adding weight, which I am
going to do putting in the loads that I mount on these cars. They
look a whole lot better after they have been painted.

I noticed in their website that they are advertsing the D&RGW
cabooses as being available, which they were showing as an upcoming
model a couple of months ago, so they (ProtoWest) must be active.

Larry W.


Re: Decals for N&W Roundroof Boxcar from W&R Imports?

Tim O'Connor
 

The W&R cars have flush roofs... As did the NP ex-DT&I 40' cars.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a photo of a Manufacturer's
Railway ex-DT&I ex-NP X31b? Matt Herson reported some ex-NP cars
went to MRS.

Tim O'Connor

One final warning - if your model has an inset roof, STOP. All of
N&W's roundroof boxcars had the later flush roof design.
Ben Hom


OB Double door Box Car

Dave Vinci <vinci4@...>
 

I was looking through some of my RR books and came across two photos
that show an outside braced double door box car. In neither case can
any lettering be seen but the cars appear to be standard USRA types.

Anyone know which roads ran such a car or know of a source for a
drawing or print of such a car?

Thanks,
Dave Vinci


CORRECTION: Linde box car

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

I wrote:
"The changes involve adding side and end hatches."

What I meant to write was:
"The changes involve adding ROOF and end hatches."

Apologies for any confusion.


Ben Hom


Re: Decals for N&W Roundroof Boxcar from W&R Imports?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jason (?) asked:
"I have a 40' roundroof doubledoor boxcar from W&R Imports in HO
scale
and I would like to decorate it for the N&W in a 1942 scheme. Does
anyone make decals for this car and what color would be best to paint
the car?"

Model Railroad Supply MRS 260-13, available from the N&W Historical
Society commissary does the single door Class B-1 boxcars, but can
be used for the Class B-2 automobile boxcars. You will need to
change the car class and improvise the automobile rack markings, but
this set will get you most of the way.
http://www.nwhs.org/commissary/decals.html

See post #65166 in the list archives for Jim Brewer's suggestions on
colors.

One final warning - if your model has an inset roof, STOP. All of
N&W's roundroof boxcars had the later flush roof design.


Ben Hom


Re: Linde box car

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"Branchline offers a model of one of the cars, VERY close to being
dead-on. I don't recall the changes needed to get to exact, but they
aren't seriously challenging."

The changes involve adding side and end hatches. I wouldn't call the
models "VERY close to being dead on" as that implies accuracy right
out of the box, but you're right, the changes aren't that involved.

See Railway Prototype Cyclopedia 14 for prototype details, and read
Bill Darnaby's article in the May 1993 issue of Mainline Modeler for
the techniques involved.


Ben Hom


Ron Christensen

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Ron,

Please contact me off list at zoe@....

Thanks, Mont Switzer

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